Books

Cage Match 2010, Round 2: 3) Aslan versus 14) Kvothe

 

aslan.jpg

Image courtesy of Walt Disney Pictures

Kvothe.jpg

Image courtesy of Kim Kincaid

Aslan
The Great Lion
Age: Older Than Narnia
Race: Unknown
Weapons / Artifacts: Deep(er) Magics
Special Attack: Martyrdom

Kvothe
The Kingkiller
Age: Mid-20s
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Magic and his sharp wit
Special Attack: Misdirection
Advantages

  • Mesmerizing voice
  • Has vast experience
  • Cannot die
Advantages

  • Mesmerizes foes with his lute and sing-song voice
  • Master Namer
  • A living legend
Disadvantages

  • Trusts in Mankind’s goodness
Disadvantages

  • Just wants to be left alone
Kills

  • Eragon (May the force be with you)
Kills

  • Garet Jax ( His search is finally over)

Click here to see what author Patrick Rothfuss thinks will happen


How we think the fight will go

It was dawn again. The world was coming alive with sound, and the sound was of three parts.

The most obvious part was a silvery and shimmering hum, made by things that were growing. If there had been trees, the sweet shivering rustle of their leaves would have hymned with it… but then, all of a sudden, there were trees, great and golden-leaved, with long shadows cast by the penny-bright sun, newly minted. If there had been creatures–mice and beavers and fauns and centaurs–their laughter would have glimmered in joyous counterpoint to the sound… and then, there they were, all the happy animals of Narnia, cavorting in the morning light.

Inside the forest stood a Lion, and he was quite unlike any other lion in the universe in that he could be heard to be singing. In doing this he rounded out the sweet, bright sound with something colossal and magnificent. A deep and ancient rhythm, in basso profundo.

The third sound was not an easy thing to notice. In fact, perhaps only Aslan could have heard it; he felt it murmuring in the loamy soil underfoot, sensed it thrumming in the very trunks of the trees. It was a single voice, much smaller than his own, the voice of a mortal. It was accompanied, every so often, by the strumming of a lute, a sound was even softer than that of the babbling brook Aslan had conjured.

But for all that, the sound the mortal Kvothe made was not dissimilar from Aslan’s song–for it, too, contained its own deep magic.

Kvothe was saying the true names of things.

And as he said them, the things Aslan brought into being… ceased to be. Aslan conjured a mighty river; Kvothe whispered its secret name and the waters ran dry. Aslan sang the sky and Kvothe’s naming drained the blue, blue, blue from it.

It was a strange kind of battle, but a battle it was: a clashing of high magics, as ethereal as an argument between angels. Still Kvothe tried to think ten steps ahead, knowing that even that was not enough to help him against a god’s foresight. Seeing something totally strange in the forest clearing–an iron lamppost–he tried to break his mind into three pieces and cursed the loss of his sympathy…

The Lion paced towards him, and Kvothe found himself lost for a moment in the black and starry depths of His eyes, so vast and infinite they could contain all the worlds Kvothe didn’t know the names of. It was then that he knew that Aslan was not even this creature’s true name, that it was only the pale shadow of a forgotten name…

“You can destroy, mortal, but only I can create,” Aslan said. Kvothe saw the muscles tensing beneath the creature’s golden coat.

The great beast flung himself on Kvothe. It might have been over in a moment if there did not come another sound, one that Kvothe heard reverberating over all the other sounds: the smashing of Kvothe’s lute.

It all came back to Kvothe in a rush: Ambrose’s accusations. Nearly being expelled from the university. The humiliations of the trial. The public whipping. The word, the single word, that had shone out from his dreaming mind that day. Kvothe said it with what should have been his next-to-last breath.

And now the only sound was the wind. It was like no other wind Kvothe had ever seen before: It roared through the forest, breaking trees and raising mighty waves and blowing the very clouds from the skies.

Aslan pulled away from him, and looked up at the sky, with the strangest look on His noble countenance; it looked almost like fear. He tried to sing his song again and still the wind blew; it fluttered away into a whimper. “I can’t make it stop,” he said. “I am the Alpha and the Omega. I created all there is and all that there shall be. But even I don’t know the name of the wind.”

When he turned again to Kvothe his eyes seemed smaller, dimmer, more ordinary. “But this is my world,” he said, sounding almost petulant. “I made it! Who are you, anyway?”

Looking at the lion, who seemed to have grown thinner and duller and shabbier by the moment, Kvothe suddenly realized he knew who his adversary truly was; he could almost hear His true name on the wind. Kvothe said the strange words: “Jesus Christ…” and the Lion began to shimmer out of his existence…

Before Kvothe could go on, he was interrupted by a heavy sigh. It was Chronicler. “Of all the stories you have told me so far,” Chronicler said, “this is perhaps the most incredible. Do you mean to tell me that you… killed a god?

“Well, bested might be more accurate…”

“Kvothe Godkiller… I like the sound of that.” Chronicler smiled as he wrote it down.

Kvothe dismissed the title with a wave of his hand. “Oh, it was nothing. Not even my greatest adventure. It’s only the first day, after all. I haven’t told you everything yet, scribe. My story is far from over.”

Predicted Winner: Kvothe

(Aslan is a character from C. S. Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia; Kvothe is a character from Patrick Rothfuss’s The Name of the Wind.)

Go to the previous match!

Go to the next match!

Back to the Bracket

  • Big.Fat.Dragon

    This was by far the dumbest scenario and I hold high hopes for dumber ones in the next round. Clearly, the editors are just trying to boost sales for The Name of the Wind.

  • DiapDealer

    “This was by far the dumbest scenario”
    If by “dumb”, you mean funny, irreverant and entertaining as hell… I whole-heartedly agree.

  • spirestar

    Q: How does one beat a God-lion with powers of resurrection?
    A: One doesn’t. This is as ridiculous as Vlad Taltos being beaten by Dumbledore…despite the fact that he couldn’t be touched by spells???

  • DiapDealer

    Q: How does one beat a God-lion with powers of resurrection?
    A: By not believing in him.

  • Bill

    Q:How does one beat a God-lion with power of resurrection?
    A:I sang him to death.
    Lets just take a silent moment of reflection on that.
    If I sat around at my computer for another three weeks or so, I could probobly think of a dumber answer. Maybe I’ll apply to write the next round for Suvudu if I do!

  • Big.Fat.Dragon

    I’m sure it would be an improvement.
    @DiapDealer –
    No, I meant dumb as in lame, as in putrid propaganda for a one-hit wonder.

  • LK

    What the heck…the story makes it seem as if Kvothe is the winner already because he’s telling Chronicler the story! But, Aslan can’t die, even if Kvothe knows his real name… This ought to end in a draw.

  • Scott

    I’m pulling for Kvothe, just to get Aslan out of the running.

  • Citizen

    An alternative scenario:
    Scene: “The Waystone Inn”
    With the late morning winter sun providing scant illumination, Kvothe assiduously polishes the countertops of his bar, though the reflections they provide in even this wan light are more than adequate for shaving. None of the regulars have yet arrived, as their habit is to take a pint or two with their noontime repast. As he cleans, Kvothe contemplates the difference between the silence prior to wiping, and that which prevails once he stops moving his cloth.
    Kvothe’s domestic ruminations are quietly interrupted by the entrance of an oversize lion, whose gaze suggests preternatural intelligence. While it pads quietly, it accidently breathes on a chair, turning it into a noisy red squirrel, which attracts Kvothe’s attention:
    Kvothe: Good Sir, how may I assist you?
    Aslan: Kvothe, I have come to speak with you.
    Kvothe: Sir Lion, I have no knowledge of this Kvothe, I am merely Kote the bartender. My floor can be rather cold when the fire is not lit, may I fetch you a rug to lie on?
    Aslan: (breathes on the squirrel, which becomes a somewhat threadworn rug that he proceeds to lie down on). No, I can see to my own accommodation. However, a bowl of wine would be nice, and a bit of bread and fish, if you have any handy.
    Kvothe: Sir Lion, here is a bowl of my finest vintage. I will need to roust Bast to seek bread and fish, we’re not used to patrons this early in the day.
    Aslan: Kvothe, let us dispense with small talk. I know you who you are, you know who I am, although I thank you for this excellent wine. As oft as I drink this, I do so in remembrance of me.
    Kvothe: Sir Lion, what is it that you would have us speak of?
    Aslan: Cthulhu.
    Kvothe: Sir Lion, please excuse me, but I know not this name.
    Aslan: Kvothe, don’t waste my time, or I’ll turn you into a donkey with one breath. We both know who we are, and where we stand in these brackets.
    Kvothe: Sir Lion, is the wine not to your liking? ____ will arrive soon with the fish and bread, I assure you.
    Aslan: Kvothe, I realize that you do not believe in me, much to my chagrin, as you have a great deal of promise. However, Cthulhu must be stopped, as he is the antithesis of everything I stand for. Or at least I think so, Lovecraft is not the most consistent of writers.
    Kvothe: Ah, Lovecraft, I have heard of him. Has a cult not grown up around his writings? And do some of these people not confuse fiction with reality? Ah, and here comes Bast with a baguette and some smoked salmon. Where have you been?
    Bast: I was delayed, Reshi.
    Kvothe: Well, don’t let it happen again. Sir Lion, what is it that you want of me, a humble bartender?
    Aslan: Kvothe, I shouldn’t have to remind you of all people that I am not a gentle lion. Cthulhu must be defeated.
    Kvothe: Sir Lion, you have the power to move between worlds, and to both create and destroy worlds. Can you not defeat this Cthulhu yourself?
    Aslan: My powers operate only within the strictures of the Deeper Magic, of which the brackets partake. As much as I would like to change seedings in order to consign Cthulhu to the oblivion that he clearly deserves, I can not do so prior to the semifinals.
    Kvothe: So why do you bring this up to me now?
    Aslan: In order to help you understand that believing in me is the only way to victory.
    Kvothe: Believing in anything is an illusion. I learned that the hard way.
    Aslan: You are like the Dwarves – their own beliefs blinded them to the bounty that surrounded them.
    Kvothe: Your moralizing is starting to annoy me, and the customers will start showing up soon. Christ, would you just leave me alone?
    (Aslan gives Kvothe a long, baleful look, and then pads out, but not without filling every available nook and cranny with baskets of baguettes and smoked salmon).
    Kvothe advances.

  • Rob

    For those you think ‘singing to death’ is the dumbest thing they’ve ever heard, just read the books. Cursing something you don’t understand is called ignorance, a thing to avoid. Trolling reflects poorly on you, not the material.
    This is easily my favorite write-up and if any book here deserves praise it’s “The Name of the Wind.”

  • Requiem

    I’m going to reserve my vote on this one until Patrick Rothfuss chimes in – I liked The Name of the Wind, but really… its Aslan.

  • DiapDealer

    “Good story written for adults” spanks “great story written for children” over its knee, and sends it to its room.

  • @Citizen I applaud you, sir. Well done, but the last bit especially cracked me up. 🙂

  • scott

    One teensy little problem – “Jesus Christ” is not his true name. Even if Aslan is the “physical” representation of only the Son, with the part of the Father being played by “the Emperor over the Sea,” and the Holy Spirit being, well, no one is really sure anyway, they are all still One. Given today’s date, I point you to the three leaves on a clover.
    So what it comes down to is, does (the Christian) God have a true name? If anything, it would be the Tetragrammaton (no, not from Equilibrium) of the Old Testament – “Elohim,” or, roughly, “I Am Who I Am.” The trouble is, these are both translations from Hebrew, and the “name” is essentially unpronounceable. If God has a name, He’s the only one who knows it. Aslan wins by default.

  • shell

    Com’on now, who can credit such an improbable character as Aslan, grow up!!!

  • Meatbit

    Indiana Jones knows the name of God, I saw it on TV so it’s true. The fight just comes down to whether someone will loan Kvothe a DVD player and a copy of The Last Crusade.

  • Jorge

    Kvothe should be able to bind Aslan through Sympathy to a fire. Aslan can keep resurrecting and burning to death again, and again, and again.
    Damning an analogue of Jesus Christ to an eternity of suffering: priceless.

  • Dierks

    Just because you don’t believe in something doesn’t mean it isn’t real. There are people who don’t believe in evolution, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Just because you don’t believe in God doesn’t mean he can’t kick the ass of a fictional character.

  • johnny5alive

    You can’t really use the Aslan = Jesus allegory otherwise this contest would already be over. How do you beat omnipotence? You don’t. If you want to go down that road, Aslan could snuff Kvothe and every other competitor out with a thought. Game over.

  • filcher19

    Oh grow up. Stop being ridiculous and examine this from a logical perspective, would you? Aslan is a GOD! Kvothe is a character who (we are GUESSING) “knows” the names of many things. If we take out all of the assumption as to what Kvothe can or cannot do, it is limited to (at this point) calling the wind and (depending on what age Kvothe we are using) sympathy. Until Mr. Rothfuss chimes in and dazzles me with his awesome writing (and he is ten times more entertaining than Lewis with his writing, btw) my vote ties to Aslan. I’d prefer if Kvothe won because I hate authors who create these characters that are simply without flaws, but if it were a battle between the two of them. Kvothe would probably use his “Tarbean” instincts and gtfo of this fight.

  • Big.Fat.Dragon

    An alternative scenario to an alternative scenario:
    Scene: “The Waystone Inn”
    An omnipotent lion walks into a bar.
    Aslan: “You are the next opponent.”
    Kvothe: “Eat me.”
    Aslan rapidly consumes Kvothe.
    Aslan sighs with contentment and awaits his next opponent.

  • Johnny Tindalos

    I’ve never forgiven Alsan for killing Jadis (dem fine woman, sir, dem fine woman) so although I’ve never read any tales of Kvothe, here’s hoping he makes a rug with stigmata out of him! 😉

  • P.V.B

    OK i know in all logic, Aslan can’t be stopped, but give this one to Kvoth, not only because he’s a freaking awesome character who is wrongly portrayed, but because if this continues, the final characters will only be gods, and that’s no longer interesting.
    Aslan V Cathulu is like a big middle finger to everybody else.

  • Taggerung

    Just give it to Kvothe. Aslan we know will just dominate the rest..

  • jordan

    well i believe kvothe would win easily, and for those of you who have read the narnia series know that aslan has to be believed in in order for his power to work which is probably what citizen was getting at in his version of events. and for those who believe you cant kill jesus, hate to break it to you but jesus does actually die, sure he may resurrect himself in a few days but his loss is already confirmed otherwise vlad and im sure a few others could be resurrected as well

  • hawk

    Actually Aslan = the One True God, the creator of the heavens and the earth and all the multiverse and everything in it. (including beings like Cthulhu) Which means on paper, Aslan wins this tourney no matter if you believe in him or not. That being said, this is more of a popularity contest so vote for who you want.

  • Sean

    Every comment section/blog/whatever on the net has the potential to turn to an endless religious battle (kinda like real life…) can we please just drop all that and get down to the point which is the CHARACTER battle. The CHARACTER Aslan vs. the CHARACTER Kvothe.
    In which case this site is batshit crazy for thinking the singing blundering wonderkin Kvothe can somehow take on Aslan. As much as I enjoyed NotW. Nobody REALLY knows what Kvothe is completely capable of since the series has only got the one book out so far. So up until this point, I’m sorry, but Kvothe can’t help but be ‘all talk’. At any rate, by being able to kill Aslan by ‘naming’ him, the scenario is unfairly playing by NotW rules, not Narnia rules. If both characters are duking it out, the rules of both worlds need to somehow meet, or be measured in an established rule setting (example: AD&D rules). In such case, I guarantee you Aslan would make a successful ‘saving throw’ against Kvothe’s ‘naming’. But that’s all assuming that the untame lion that is Aslan would even allow the battle to last that long. He wouldn’t.
    As to the suggestion that Aslan’s powers work only when you believe in him: That is OBVIOUSLY in reference to prayer. (Believe in God and he will help you) in this case he’s helping/defending HIMSELF. Kvothe therefore does not need to believe IN Aslan in order for his ass to be beaten BY Aslan.
    For the record, Aslan should not be competing as it’s unfair to all others. Then again it IS just a popularity contest…

  • DiapDealer

    Dammit! This was one of the few battles where no one was dredging up any of that D&D dreck…

  • Laura

    I’ve never read the Narnia Chronicles but in the movies it says that Aslan only resurrected because of the Stone Table, dindn’t he?!
    And since almost everybody agrees that Aslan is NOT Jesus and DIDN’T create the world and sky, there is no reason why Kvothe shouldn’t know his name and kill him. Or this contest would be boring…
    Even if he didn’t, I like the idea of Jorge…
    The NotW is an awesome book which is why Kvothe deserves to get to the semi finals – at least!
    And Kvothe does kill an angel btw, a god is not that far away from that, isn’t it?

  • JJDownes

    I was gonna say about how Kvothe should win for all different reasons. But lets be honest Aslan is too powerful to even be in this competition so if that extremely funny scenario is Suvudu’s way of kicking Aslan out of the competition, more pwer to them!

  • Bill

    God I love these responses. This whole tournament has made me laugh more than the last time I saw Dumb and Dumber…and I love that movie.
    I would like to apologize if I offended anyone. Really. I was just playing along with the spirit of hilarity.
    That said….
    c’mon!!!! SANG him to death?!?!?
    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

  • Drakey

    Laura: Aslan is God, and thus He’d win against everyone combined. So He really shouldn’t be in the competition at all. But, that said, He is. And as He is, Kvothe, no matter how awesome he is, could NOT win. Either he shouldn’t have been entered in the first place or he should win.

  • jordan

    well there are a few characters who have killed gods or heavenly beings before, kvothe among them, so it is quite possible for aslan to lose. i do agree suvudus version of what would happen to be pretty bad though but since nobody really knows how powerful naming magic is,except rothfuss that is, nobody can say what it can and cant do. maybe taborlin the great had the power to destroy gods, it seems he could do everything else so why not

  • Extrachronal Pilot of the Tree of Pain

    pretty silly
    voted Aslan

  • Lexington Nerdington

    Aslan is a direct allegory to GOD!!!

  • DiapDealer

    “Aslan is God, and thus He’d win against everyone combined.”
    When, exactly, did Aslan get promoted to actually being God?
    He was definitely an allegorical reference to God, but I’m pretty sure that C.S. Lewis didn’t actually create God, did he?
    I make motion to ban the phrase “Aslan is God” from further arguments.

  • Paul

    Voted Kvothe , but it wasn’t an easy choice. Mostly I just liked the idea of a crazy guy with a funny guitar and a black leather jacket killing a God with a stiff breeze…and then being all humble about it.

  • Drakey

    DiapDealer: He’s a representation for Jesus in the series, and when taken into account with the Trinity and all that, then he’s God as well. Or at least that’s my understanding. But I believe he shouldn’t be knocked out just because he’s a God=like figure, although that might make more sense.

  • Steve

    Someone refresh my memory. When did Kvothe kill a god? I don’t recall that.

  • jordan

    i said heavenly being, or an angel, chronicler said its rumored that he killed one to get back a girl(probably denna) so it may or may not actually happen and if aslan is supposed to be a representation of jesus, he should die pretty easily

  • Rhappie

    Aww, but “Aslan is God” is catchy!
    He’s your awesome dream pet, cut him a break. Everyone would rather have a(cuddly) all-knowledgeable (totally more badass than Simba) lion that coddles you like a child because he thinks he’s all powerful… instead of that fat housecat sitting on your doorstep that has deteriorated to eating the crust off a grilled cheese sandwich and couldn’t catch a rat if you dangled it in front of its nose! And he’s a lion. Win.
    The problem is he has a reputation like a favorite Teddy Bear – his good streak is astronomical, his roar is like divine justice.
    But… But.. He’s in a book for kids! ( dream fight: Aslan vs. Winnie the Pooh)
    That said Kvothe is an up and coming (insert word here) with a history of hanging out in a tavern most of the time. Granted, he’s the barkeep, which is a fairly respectable profession, but being an epic fantasy hero dude (IMO) might require him to put up the wine glasses (they’re clean enough already!) and take a step outdoors (fresh air might clear his sinus’s.)
    *Pokes Rothfuss*
    Citizen’s alternative scenario : win.

  • Citizen

    Here’s a quote from C.S. Lewis on Aslan’s name in this world:
    “As to Aslan’s other name, well I want you to guess. Has there been anyone is this world who:
    (1) arrived at the same time as Father Christmas;
    (2) said he was the son of a great emperor;
    (3) gave himself up for someone else’s fault to be jeered and killed by wicked people;
    (4) came to life again;
    (5) is sometimes spoken of as a Lamb…
    Don’t you really know His name in this world? Think it over and let me know your answer!”
    Dorsett, L and Lamp Mead, M ed. CS Lewis Letters to Children
    I think that Kvothe’s naming strategy works.

  • jordan

    oops, i was wrong, “the story told of how kvothe had gone looking for his heart’s desire. He had to trick a demon to get it. But once it rested in his hand, he was forced to fight an angel to keep it.” all he would have to do to win and get aslan to give himself up to save his beliefs, not even much of a fight

  • Jorge

    Even when I was 6 I hated the stupid lion. I always rooted for the White Witch.
    Of course, I am scientist now. *shrug*
    GO KVOTHE!

  • Citizen

    Rothfuss needs to follow GRRM’s lead and write his own scenario. Kvothe fans, go post on his website and ask him to do so (he’s stated that he’s open to it, and has time).

  • Skymnolf

    If Aslan is suposed to be Jesus (God) Then what happened to his turn the other cheek. If Aslan is Jesus he would not fight back against a human only demons.

  • The Harbinger

    So the Lannister fans have weighed in and gotten rid of Cthulu… I think we should all pitch in and get rid of Aslan. Gods have no place in this competition. Yes Aslan and Cthulu kick amazing ass. I say we announce them winners, knock them out now, and see who the runner ups would be 😉

  • Citizen

    The Harbinger – couldn’t agree more. This tournament would benefit from a couple of big upsets, and Kvothe really does have a viable way to do it. Aslan is “not a tame lion”, but it is generally not his style to come in with all guns blazing against those who are not demonstrably evil, so Kvothe should have a chance to name him first.

  • Ross

    Can’t we just call Narnia fan-fic for the Bible, and declare Kvothe the winner by virtue of originality?

  • almus

    Aslan is a dated boring Jesus Christ story for kiddies, and while the Chronicles of Narnia will always have a place in every readers childhood, its time to pass the gauntlet. If you think this is a stupid scenario, you clearly didn’t read the book. Maybe the editors are just trying to boost sales for the name of the wind, thats awesome. Everyone should own a copy. The book kicks ass.

  • Roxie

    First of all, Aslan/Jesus isn’t a god. He is the SON of a god. A prince is royal, but not the king. Aslan is divine, but not (a) God. That would make him a demi-god at best. If we go by Greek mythology, then demi-gods are far from invincible.
    I’d still have to give this one to Aslan though. How’d Kvothe know Aslan TRUE name. He struggles with the name of the wind. How is he getting his hands on the name of a demi-god. Without naming, Kvothe has very little going for him in this battle.

  • crimescene

    You know, it’s not like Jesus/Aslan never took one for the team and went down for the count. Aslan could throw this fight for the good of the competition.
    Although if it did end up being Aslan vs. Cthulhu in the end, that would interesting.

  • Matt

    Half of the people commenting on here would have me believe Rothfuss has the suvudu writers’ under his control.
    Actually.. it wouldn’t surprise me. He’s that awesome.
    Kvothe > Aslan

  • Jam

    Love it!!

  • Matias

    Some people are so sad it makes me laugh… I voted Kvothe for two simple reasons.
    1. He’s an awesome character, and it will make the matchups a lot more entertaining that an omnipotent Lion. Otherwise might as well put all the rest of the contestants together and have Aslan win.
    2. Piss off the fanbois like Big.Fat.Dragon that take this way too seriously and say OMG ASLAN CANT LOSE BECAUSE HE IS A GOD!!!11111eleven

  • brian kemp

    I’d probably vote for a god-free campaign and go against Aslan, just to somewhat level the playing field in terms of power (I keep voting against the true heavy hitters), but in all those other cases, I’ve read the opposititions stuff. I don’t know Kvothe, though, so Aslan gets the vote.

  • Skinner

    As for Kvothe being able to kill immortals, we have this:
    “I believe it, Chronicler found himself thinking. Before it was just a story, but now I can believe it. This is the face of a man who has killed an angel.”
    Plus, Jesus is jst a glorified zombie. Cut his head off and be done with it,

  • Bunbury

    Alright guys, let’s get some things straight.
    Kvothe is a super cool character. He is really badass, and his story is very, very well written. It’s better written, in fact, than the Chronicles of Narnia. Much better. But this is just rediculous. Asland is God. You can’t beat someone who has complete control over everything. EVERYTHING. He has no weaknesses, because he’s infallible. “Knowing his true name” doesn’t grant you power over him. You can’t have power over something that is all-powerful.
    I realize that many of you don’t believe in God in real life, but this story doesn’t take place in real life. It takes place in a realm where both of these characters (who are possibly equally fictional) DO exist, in the capacities that they existed within their own universes. Which means that Asland is God. Which means that “not believing in him” does a whole lot of diddly shit.
    The story should have gone something closer to “Aslan speaks, Kvothe no longer has vocal chords or a frontal lobe. Good game, Kvothe. Your book was awesome and I can’t wait for the next one.”

  • Big.Fat.Dragon

    Oh my. I sincerely thank you Matias. I laughed so hard at your post. It is so easy to get a rise out of simpletons such as yourself. I really appreciate the enthusiasm you put into your insipid response.
    Never did I say Aslan can’t lose and I certainly wasn’t obnoxious enough to shout it in all caps. If characters with different levels of ability are mixed then of course the deity characters will win. Duh. The editors did not think(or care) about the logical conclusion to their actions. A good example of poor planning.
    Frankly, I could care less who wins. They’re fictional characters. Get a life! Although I must confess. I truly do hope you respond. You have brought such laughter to my day. Thank you again.

  • Big.Fat.Dragon

    Congratulations Chris!
    You have won the prize for being the most ignorant. Many of the people posting comments here are amusingly ignorant such as Matias(in a village idiot sort of way).
    But you . . .wow. Your comment “gay as AIDS” is a whole other level of ignorance. I’m sure the 35 million people living with HIV/AIDS worldwide thank you. I’m hoping you will dazzle us with your view on how the world is flat next?
    Excellent. Now run along, go play in traffic and get hit. Your type of ignorance is just sad and should not be shared.

  • DiapDealer

    The – “I’m so above all this insipid nonsense but I’m participating anyway” – crowd are the ones that I get the biggest laugh out of.
    Self-righteousness is the ultimate in slapstick.

  • harbarbgar

    wat
    the wind? that doesn’t make much sense. why wouldn’t it be under his domain?
    no reason, that’s why
    lion > bard

  • JimBob

    Aslan can’t permanently die, but he can die (As the White Witch showed). This is a fight to the death, not a fight to eternal death.
    Kvothe kills Aslan by either lighting him on fire using sympathy, or just naming him. Aslan returns to life once again, but it doesn’t matter for the purposes of this battle. A death is a death, no matter what happens afterward.

  • Stefan

    As Jimbob said, even if Aslan can’t eternally die, one death is a death, and that is something Kvothe is more than capable of.
    Furthermore, do we really want Aslan to stay in the competition? Personally I’m sick of the “But he can’t die because he’s a God” thing. It’s bad for the competition. The next round will be way cooler without Aslan.
    On top of that, as a character, Kvothe is way cooler, and, as a book, I prefer NOTW. So Kvothe gets my vote.
    Go Kvothe!

  • jordan

    ok so the people who keep saying aslan is a literary figure and has the power in the book and than goes on to say that believing in him means nothing and he cant die because hes a god has obviously never read the books. aslans power weakens when no one believes in him and he also dies in the books, sure he may come back to life later but not immediatly so hence kvothe can win. and like ive said before, nobody knows the extent of naming magic so it could very well kill gods. and i agree that the people who come on here and post things to prove they are better than others are the true losers

  • Drakey

    Umm… Aslan’s power is not changed by people not believing in him. People ignoring him makes it so that they cannot see him or anything he does for them, but that does not mean he’s powerless over them. It just means they are blind to his power, not that it doesn’t effect them. But I will say this: A Gandalf Aslan match would be boring. I have no clue who would win in a Gandalf Kvothe match. Kick Aslan, after admitting that he can’t be beat. And, may I remind people, Kvothe’s sympathy failed in NotW. If he can name things so well, why couldn’t he just name the scrael spider things?

  • Drakey

    Aslan gave himself up Jimbob. He died deliberately. That is way different than him being killed against his will.

  • Josh

    As someone else has said, Aslan has a history of taking one for the team. He’s not going to bow out against Raistlin, so why not have him simply bow out against Kvothe? Kvothe is a great character with tons of potential, and I could easily see Aslan simply throwing the fight for him to move on. It takes Aslan out of the tournament, a plus, and it isn’t completely against character. That being said, I did want to see a fight between Aslan and Raistlin. If Kvothe wins, it doesn’t bother me, but I’m certainly not a fan of the story from Suvudu. I much prefer the one where Kvothe says, “Christ, why don’t you just leave me alone?”

  • Cy

    Awesome!! Kvothe FTW all the way~~~ XD Aslan is hands-down the MOST annoying deus ex machina device in any and all works of SFF (haha, probably precipitated by the fact that he’s a thinly veiled allegory for God and/or Jesus). He drains all suspense and meaning from every battle he participates in (read: easily and effortlessly wins). Glad to see someone finally kicking his plot-cheapening butt~

  • Meg

    Let’s be honest, here. Aslan would win. But I’m voting for Kvothe anyway. Love NOTW, love Patrick Rothfuss. (And love the comment about Narnia being fanfic for the Bible. Hee!)

  • Melda

    Had a laugh. Voted Aslan.

  • Big.Fat.Dragon

    Disappointing. Barely a chuckle. Please try harder.

  • Drakey

    Oops, for some reason I was thinking Aslan would face up against Gandalf next if they won. Versus Raistlin, Aslan would win imo, but I don’t want to see an Aslan Raistlin fight.

  • Drakey

    One word roxie. Trinity. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the same person.

  • DiapDealer

    “Disappointing. Barely a chuckle. Please try harder.”
    *Giggles* See what I mean?? Seriously, stop it… you’ll make me pop a stitch.

  • big.gay.dragon.with.aids

    OMG ASLAN CANT LOSE BECAUSE HE IS A GOD!!!11111eleven
    We should be weeding out the childrens books (we started with Hermoine and Edward, Dumbledore is next), so Aslan has got to go. And all of those who can’t take a joke should just go with him.

  • Lunaelu

    Vote Kvothe!
    I love both books/series but Kvothe HAS to win. It’s not about power, of course a God will always be more powerful, but Kvothe has wit and subtlety and could outsmart even Aslan, because Aslan believes too much in the good of people while Kvothe is a survivalist.
    Basically Kvothe outwits Aslan, and brains always wins over brawn

  • positronics

    Just to clear something up: Aslan is not “God” in his own mythos, he is the mortal flesh spun from the will of the Emperor-Over-The-Sea, a Judeo-Christian God-like being. Aslan has said so himself that he is physically mortal (as was JC in Biblical mythos btw), so just writing it off as you can’t “beat God” has no real bearing on any of his matchups.

  • johnny5alive

    “brains always wins over brawn”
    this statement has major fail written all over it

  • Lunaelu

    Why? because you don’t believe it true or because it is one of the cheesiest lines in the book 😉 ?
    It got my point across and thats all that matters.

  • Ross

    This is all we really need to know: God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is a Trinity, but when it’s wearing its Jesus hat it’s nonviolent. Aslan on the other hand is not nonviolent, but DOES only fight people who are either evil or brown-skinned (the two are equivocal in the Narniaverse.) Kvothe is neither. Thus, all we have to do is convince Kvothe that killing a god looks good on a resume, or that it would make the most epic story ever, and he will win due to utter lack of opposition.

  • rofikins

    Okay, you’re definition of god is coming straight from real-life. There is nothing in the story to suggest infallibility. Sure he comes out on top in the end, but the same is true of dozens of other characters. Are they all Gods too. Plenty of mortals have come back to life in other fiction. There are plenty of other gods (real gods, not messiahs) in other stories. What about their infallibility. Does it cancel out Aslan’s. But Kvothe isn’t a god, so I’ll stick to the basics.
    Aslan IS NOT INVINCIBLE. He is powerful. There is a difference. There are plenty of stories where a battle not unlike this has taken place and the Kvothe-like character has won.

  • johnny5alive

    Because it’s irrational and which book would that be?

  • Citizen

    Ok, staying away from the theology for the moment, what can Aslan as a character actually do? He can summon armies of fauns, centaurs, etc., and lead them in battle against well-demarcated enemies. His singing has some role in the creation of Narnia, so he has some power to bring things to life. He can transform things by breathing on them, such as people into donkeys, and bringing petrified characters back to life. Finally, he has the power to bring at least the world of Narnia to an end, but that is constrained by the Deeper Magic, not clear whether he can do that just anywhere. Even if we cut him some slack and say he could theoretically populate and destroy other worlds, it would still have to be within a larger set of strictures, and time has something to do with it.
    Ok, so that’s a lot of power, but it is not infinite. He can not force people to believe in him. He can not stop Susan from wearing makeup. He can not make the Dwarves see that they are no longer in a stable, etc. So powerful yes, but not omnipotent or necessarily omniscient. He was resurrected once, but that was partly due to the Deeper Magic of the Stone Table, which is now broken, so that power is used up. He is the son of the Emperor-over-the-sea, not the Emperor himself.
    Further, he doesn’t just go around eating people, or attacking without cause. In fact, he tends to err on the side of caution, using gentle nudges to help characters see the error of their ways. Eustace is probably the best example. So, as I’ve posted before, it is highly unlikely that he would pounce on Kvothe immediately. Rather, he would try and convince Kvothe to follow Aslan, and believe in him. Therefore it is entirely probable that Kvothe would have a chance to use naming, or sympathy, or just plain guile.
    In short, Aslan can be beaten, and Kvothe has both the ability and the disposition to do it. We already have a couple of scenarios illustrating how that might go, and I’m really hoping that Rothfuss will post one of his own. To my mind, Kvothe winning this one is not just plausible, but reasonably probable.

  • lightreizer

    Kvothe wins this pretty much by default- you have to be a child to see the Narniaverse- if you get too old you stop believing in it – so Kvothe probably wouldn’t even see Aslan. And even if the fight did work…..he has his naming magic and he’s beaten a draccus. Admittedly it was drugged, but still. A lion isn’t nearly so difficult

  • Drakey

    Ok, I’m gonna shut up about God-hood now. But, from what I remember, Kvothe did not seem even CLOSE to extremely powerful from what we know now in the books. He’s barely named the wind in one time we know him, and when he’s older his sympathy failed, and he definitely didn’t just name the scraelings into oblivion.

  • RFPII

    Wow, this one is pretty close in the voting.
    A lot has already been said about Aslan’s Godhood vs. Kvothe’s naming magic. While I haven’t read the Kvothe thing I hope to as I’m now interested in this character (and let’s face it, that IS the ultimate goals of the editors–to introduce us to their books). If this is a popularity contest, let the best man/lion win. If this is about who would *actually* win, then the editors are being silly or are trying to specifically forment discussion with an absurd conclusion. For the record, I don’t believe Aslan has any place in these battles but since He’s here…
    1. Aslan is obviosuly an allegory to Jesus. This is really a point that shouldn’t need to be debated.
    2. Aslan being the Son of the Emperor Over the Sea doesn’t make him less powerful than the Emperor. Christian doctrine states the Son is equal to the Father. While the Son is subserviant to the Father, it doesn’t make him less poweful; he submits to the Father willfully (and as a sign of strength), not out of weakness.
    3. Alsan didn’t die because he was defeated but because it was in accordance with the Emporer’s plan (i.e., Deep Magic). To paraphrase, “Aslan was meant to die ONCE for all.” While it was real death, it was not out of weakness.
    4. The naming power of Kvothe sounds pretty cool but it can’t compare to ex nhilo creation. That is like saying that your ability to read makes you as powerful as the Person that invented language.
    Bottom line is that even if you take Narnia as “fan-fiction for the Bible” (which is a great description BTW), then you must accept the logical conclusions of both (at least for the sake of this argument–if you accept Kvothe’s premise for him, you have to accept Aslan’s premise for Him).
    Thus, Aslan wins.

  • Citizen

    Ah, RFPII, I feared it would come to this. I’ll break it into pieces. First, an analysis of Lewis, showing that Aslan isn’t just a Jesus allegory, but represents the fictional incarnation of Jesus in Narnia:
    From http://cslewis.drzeus.net/papers/success.html
    “In The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, the fifth book of the series, Aslan tells the children that although they must return to their own world, they can find him there also (Hooper 123). Aslan says, “There I have another name. You must learn to know me by that name. This was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there” (Hooper 123). Some of Lewis’ readers wonder what the significance of this statement is and begin to search for Aslan here on earth. Hila, an eleven year old girl from the United States asked Lewis what Aslan’s name is in this world (Dorsett 31-32). His response was this:
    As to Aslan’s other name, well I want you to guess. Has there never been anyone in this world who:
    (1.) Arrived at the same time as Father Christmas.
    (2.) Said he was the son of the great Emperor.
    (3.) gave himself up for someone else’s fault to be jeered at and killed by wicked people. (4.) Came to life again.
    (5.) Is sometimes spoken of as a Lamb…. Don’t you really know His name in this world. Think it over and let me know your answer! (Dorsett 32)
    When Lewis’ readers find Aslan in the real world, they will find out that his true name is Jesus Christ.
    Works Cited
    * Dorsett, Lyle W. and Marjorie Lamp Mead, eds. C. S. Lewis Letters to Children. New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1985.
    # Hooper, Walter. Past Watchful Dragons: The Narnian Chronicles of C. S. Lewis. New York: Collier Books, 1979.”

  • CezeN

    “you have to be a child to see the Narniaverse- if you get too old you stop believing in it – so Kvothe probably wouldn’t even see Aslan. ”
    Lightreizer- If Kvothe can’t even see Aslan, how does he even have any chance of beating him? How is he gonna name someone he can’t see? If you were blindfolded against a random stranger, would you be able to figure out his name? Dodge a punch from him? lol
    On the otherhand, in the Narnia books, even though the elves didn’t see or believe in Aslan, he still made an apple appear in their hands. Which means, he can still affect people that don’t see or believe in him – they just can’t affect him since from their perspective, he doesn’t exist.
    All of which works in Aslan’s favor.
    llllllllol

  • Citizen

    Btw, I didn’t write the above, it’s from some Lewis scholar at the listed URL. Continuing, the previous post establishes the true name argument, in Lewis’ own words. The Suvudu scenario is a little off, Kvothe’s naming power only gives him the power to invoke the entity named, and have it more or less do his will, not make it disappear. My earlier scenario takes that into account – telling Aslan to leave him alone is well within Kvothe’s powers.

  • Citizen

    RFPII, moving on to your second point, I don’t think Aslan as character gets to rely on the entirety of Christian doctrine as developed over the last 2,000 years in this cage match. Does Kvothe (or Rath, or anyone else) get to call on the powers of all of those who have preceded them in the genre (including Iluvatar from the Simarillion, another actual God-figure), and even Cthulhu? We have to draw lines somewhere. As previously posted, TCON show Aslan as having significant power, but nowhere does Lewis claim equivalence between the son and the Emperor.

  • Citizen

    RFPII, we pretty much agree on your third point, as previously posted. Re: point 4, Kvothe doesn’t need to create language or a new world in order to win. All he has to do is get Aslan off his back. Kvothe is one of the brightest students at his university, with a secret passage to the best library in the world. Given the multi-world situation implied within these brackets, there is absolutely no reason why he wouldn’t have access to C.S. Lewis’ books, as well as secondary commentary. GRRM used a very similar set of assumptions in his Cthulhu scenario, with less character backup. In order words, Kvothe has more than enough data to figure out Aslan’s true name, and dispatch him.
    While Aslan is not omniscient, he is pretty good at seeing consequences, and in my scenario, he acknowledges that Kvothe knows who he is during the conversation.
    So, while your points are well-stated, and I thank you for the discussion, I don’t believe that you’ve established your conclusion. Rather, the available evidence from both series indicates that Kvothe has a better chance of winning this scenario than Aslan.
    And yes, we are taking this way too seriously 😉

  • Citizen

    CezeN,
    While I’m at it here, you’re partially right, but only partially. Only children can go to Narnia. However, Narnia is gone (having been replaced by Heaven-Narnia in the final book, where adults are allowed), so this match has to take place somewhere else. For purposes of discussion, I’m assuming that is the “Cagematch Universe”, because there has to be some place for all of these characters to get together. Since the Cagematch itself is taking place in our universe, our rules apply, and Aslan would be visible to Kvothe.

  • RFPII

    I’m honestly trying to figure out if your arguments help me or hurt me…
    1. If your argument is that Aslan IS Jesus as opposed to simply an allegory, I’ll play along. But that just makes Him all the more powerful, not less. If Aslan truly is Jesus Christ, he’s omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. That is the archetype presented in the Bible–I’m not asking you to believe in the religous truth of Scripture anymore than I’m asking you to believe “The Name of the Wind” is true–just that you accept both premises on face value. Even a mortal on a first-name basis with God can’t hope to defeat Him.
    2. On what basis are you eliminating Christian doctrine if you are invoking the Aslan = Christ argument. This is a classic non sequitur.
    3. Thanks 😉
    4. Now waitaminute. Kvothe has access to all the books of “reality” but Aslan, from the passage YOU quoted, wouldn’t? So, your Aslan/Jesus walks up to a character with even his, according to you, limited omniscience, and lets Kvothe say His true name? Seriously?
    Look, I’ll play this your way or my way but the fact is, Aslan as a character, apart from religious dogma because I don’t wish to start a flame war, is too powerful for any mortal (or godling for that matter).
    Enjoying the debate!

  • Citizen

    RFPII: I’ll keep this one much shorter:
    1. Jesus=omnipotent relies on Christian doctrine external to the Aslan character. Nowhere in TCON does Aslan claim or demonstrate omnipotence, quite the contrary.
    2. No, it is not a non sequitur, but it is a very subtle point, which I’m still working on. There is a differentiation to be made between accurate naming, which Kvothe can clearly do wrt Aslan, and Aslan automatically being able to call on powers not specifically ascribed to him in TCON.
    4. My scenario (which is way back up near the top) does assume that Aslan knows Kvothe’s true name as well, and pretty much recognizes Kvothe as an equal in that respect, but chooses to attempt persuasion first. Totally consistent with Aslan’s character, as previously posted.
    Let me boil it down. I think our disagreement really comes down to Jesus=omnipotent, and my claim is that nothing in TCON supports that. You need the trinity argument from Christian theology in order for that to work, which is outside the confines of this cage match, because Lewis never invokes it with respect to Aslan (although I’m sure he believed some version of it).

  • Noman

    I don’t care who wins. What I really want to see is the last man standing and then Kylar Stern from The Night Angel Trilogy appears from the shadows, kills the winner, cleans his blade and says “Assassins have targets. Wetboy’s have deaders.”

  • Citizen

    RFPII: Ok, let’s reduce this a little further, for all of the poor folks that we have put to sleep with our theology. My argument:
    1. Jesus=Aslan
    2. Aslan=not omnipotent in TCON. Quite the contrary.
    3. Both Kvothe and Aslan have the credible capacity to know each other’s true names.
    4. Aslan would try persuasion before power.
    5. Kvothe would use Aslan’s true name in a first strike out of annoyance. Doesn’t eliminate Aslan, but does get him out of the way for cage match purposes.
    6. Kvothe advances.

  • Citizen

    And, RFPII, all theological arguments aside, you should really read NOTW, if you haven’t already. Yes, Rothfuss has only produced one book so far, but it is really good, and he’s coming along with the second, according to his web site. I’m not at all down on C.S. Lewis, I remember liking the Perelandra trilogy, and the Screwtape Letters, though it has been a long time. However, Rothfuss is part of the new generation, and Kvothe is among the most complex characters I have seen in this genre. Whomever wins, I highly recommend the book.

  • Citizen

    RFPII: Sorry to post this after making peace offerings, but I’m a little slow. Referring to your previous post, “I’m honestly trying to figure out if your arguments help me or hurt me…”, that is exactly how Kvothe fights with words. Primary attack: misdirection 😉

  • RFPII

    Arguments from silence are logically the weakest (“it doesn’t say he can so it must mean he can’t” or vice versa). This is because they work both ways–both for you and for me, thus not proving anything. I can find no evidence in TCoN that specifically refutes Aslan’s omnipotence. I’m willing to have any pointed out, however, should you do so, you have a real problem with your first premise as Jesus was certainly described as such and this would negate your first argument: Aslan can’t both Be Jesus and BE NOT Jesus (Law of Noncontradiction).
    If your premise is based on the fact that Lewis describes his Aslan *AS* Jesus because this is the only way Kvothe’s power works (true name), then Aslan would have all the known “powers” of Jesus. Simple syllogism:
    A. Jesus is God/Omnipotent/Omniscient/etc.. (Major Premise)
    B. Aslan is Jesus. (Minor Premise)
    C. Aslan is God/Omnipotent/Omniscient/etc.. (Conclusion)
    Logically speaking, if both premises are accepted as true and the conclusion is valid, the conclusion is true.
    Look, this is inescapable. I don’t need Lewis to specifically mention the Trinity anymore than I need Scripture to do so (the word “Trinity” is never used in the Bible). All we have to establish is that Aslan equates to the Jesus that Lewis had in mind which is the basis of your argument (which is for the most part the classical Christian definition). Since we’re willing to agree on this point, my conclusion is the only logical one.
    And I’ll be looking for the NotW book. If nothing else, your passion for its defense has inspired me 🙂

  • Ci

    RFPII, nice comments, you clearly know your logic. However, our chief point of disagreement is that I view your major premise as an assumption that relies on the theology of the Trinity to make the connection between Aslan and omnipotence. The primary rationale for disagreement is that Aslan’s behaviors and statements in TCON are very much at odds with your premise that Jesus=omnipotence/omniscience. Rather, Lewis is presenting a very different vision of Jesus as an actor constrained by the Deeper Magic, in which he participates, but is not master. I agree with you that he didn’t have to mention it specifically, but all of the actual references point in the other direction, and highlight Aslan’s limitations as an incarnation of Jesus in a fictional world, not God him/her/itself. Based on evidence from TCON, Aslan is not omnipotent, even by implication or omission.
    We’re clearly arguing theology here, and perhaps we should just agree to disagree. Your syllogism is logically valid, but questionable major premises do not lead to inescapable conclusions. I too have enjoyed this discussion, but perhaps we should start looking for ways to make peace, in order to avoid starting a flame war in the am. Open to suggestions.

  • Citizen

    And RFPII, at least no one can credibly accuse us of being fanboys, or “emos” 😉

  • RFPII

    Well, I disagree with your assertion that Aslan is an actor vs. initiator but the only way to convince you would drift closer and closer to a theology debate. (My major premise is rooted in the major premise of the NT so I’ll stand by it because we’re taking these characters as prima facie). I truly can’t see how you can have Aslan be Jesus and then argue he’s not but I’ll concede at this point if you still disagree, I can’t add anything beyond what’s been written.
    With that said, I’ll simply reiterate my initial objection that Aslan doesn’t belong in this match. And, as my arguments haven’t appeared to sway any of the other voters (as he’s now losing worse than before) I’ll wait patiently until I have to quietly admit defeat to Kvothe. Math, like logic, when correctly applied, is unassailable 😉
    Assuming Kvothe wins then, I assume we’d agree he’d beat everyone else? After all, your arguments dictate he’ll have access to all of the character’s stories and thus, true names. As I understand the character, that’s all that is needed, no?
    Oh, and I’ve been called a lot worse than either “fanboy” or “emo” 🙂

  • matt

    Easily the best post I’ve read all day…
    kylar would have been an excellent addition to this bracket.

  • Citizen

    RFPII, Kvothe does not necessarily win in the future. C.S. Lewis’ stories are widely circulated, and likely to be available in his library. Their basis is also unusually transparent, that is not necessarily true for the other characters. So, Kvothe wins this round, but he may well have big fights on his hands in the future. The arguments that have carried him thus far by no means guarantee future victory. Raistlin would pose an entirely different kind of challenge, let’s deal with that if and when it comes.

  • Citizen

    RFPII, as I’ve said in other ways, where we disagree is on what it means for “Aslan to be Jesus”. I concur, let the votes decide at this point. Still, good argument, and let’s see what tomorrow brings.

  • Aryador

    If Kvothe advances after this round, it does not mean that he will win the tournament.
    Why so?
    Because if one thing is clear about round 2, than it’s the swing in the mood of participants: They got bored of the expectation to see all gods, demigods and almostgods yawning their way into the finals. That’s the only explanation why Gandalf, the Shrike, Aslan, Polgara and Cthulhu are out or almost out.
    In round 3, the whole deck will be shuffled anew. Maybe people go back to the idea that the stronger one should logically win. Maybe they suddenly realize that the tournament is heavily loaded with wizards, and start to eliminate the magic users.
    Maybe something completely else happens.
    That’s the nature of the game, I guess.

  • lightreizer

    I meant that for Kvothe, Aslan would not exist, so being the only “real” character he would automatically win. There would be no fight in that case, because Aslan cannot influence those who do not believe in Narnia.

  • DiapDealer

    I fell asleep somewhere during round 497 of the theological challenge portion of this match. Did I miss anything??
    Where’s that damn ale vendor?

  • BayingPirate

    RFPII:
    If I followed your argument, you are saying that Jesus is a fictional character? In that case – along with the rest of your argument – I think you’ve made a strong point for an Aslan victory. Is there some way that I can change my vote from Kvothe?

  • lightreizer

    “For purposes of discussion, I’m assuming that is the “Cagematch Universe”, because there has to be some place for all of these characters to get together. Since the Cagematch itself is taking place in our universe, our rules apply, and Aslan would be visible to Kvothe.”
    I agree, as for the purpose of a fight, they would have to see each other. However, for the universe – isn’t the children’s home world very similar to our universe? And Aslan seems to have little power there – his abilities seem to be mostly Narnia specific.
    This is the difficulty with matches like this one. Sorting out exactly which abilities are transferrable to the cage match is tricky without guidelines.

  • DiapDealer

    Thank you, Mr. Rothfuss. Snarky and noble all at the same time.

  • RFPII

    Technically I’m not saying Jesus *IS* a purely fictional charcater (theologically WAY beyond the scope of this forum and not a position I’d want to defend anyway). What I’m saying is that if we are taking all of these characters at their literary face value (prima facie) then we must accept the Jesus in literature (i.e., the Bible) as such purely for the sake of this arument. This isn’t evangalism, it is an attempt to give each character their due. The Jesus character would be beyond the scope of any posited here, much the same way YWHW of the Torah or Allah of the Koran would be (which is why I’ve repeatedly stated that Aslan doesn’t belong here). Where Citizen and I have have so civily disagreed is where the Aslan = Jesus (as a character) breaks down.
    About Kvothe winning: Again, I haven’t (yet) read the book so my argument hinged on very limited understanding of the character. The way I understand his power to work, he has access to the books of *reality* and thus can discover the true names of beings and objects. If that is true, I have a hard time seeing how he could lose to any of the other literary characters (e.g., Raistlin is one of the most well established chracter in literature appearing in numerous books/magazines/gaming supplements). If I’ve somehow misinterpreted his abilities, I’ll gladly stand corrected.
    Thanks folks. This is fun–ale vendor or no ale vendor!

  • jordan

    i believe everyone should read rothfuss scenario and concede victory to kvothe for logical reasons based on aslans character which is way better than basing it on stuff thats not in the book

  • wirelessrobin

    Ahhhh, Patrick Rothfuss… You Sir are awesome. Love it love it love it!

  • CezeN

    Citizen-
    If you look at the Dumbledore/Raistlin scenario, Dumbledore goes to Raistlin’s universe. And, it is totally within Aslan’s power to travel to Kvothe’s universe. He’s traveled across different universes before.
    In which case, his universe rules apply.
    However, since the Narnia series takes place throughout multiple universes, it’s slightly self-evident that Aslan’s rules/powers would still apply in Kvothe’s universe. Rendering him invisible to Kvothe.

  • ilaby

    I voted for who I would want to shag.
    It wasn’t the lion.
    That is all.

  • CezeN

    If Kvothe can’t see Aslan, it doesn’t mean that Aslan doesn’t exist – as Aslan is still there. Otherwise,whenever the Shrike disappeared, it ceased to exist and Drizzt won. Whenever Dumbledore? turned invisible, he ceased to exist, and lost.
    Is that why Dumbledore and the Shrike lost? lol
    I refer you back to my previous post, where even though the dwarves couldn’t see Aslan, Aslan still influenced them by making fruit/food appear in their hand. So, of course he could still affect Kvothe and still exists.
    Now, what would happen if he made a knife appear in the air above those dwarves? It’d fall on their heads and they’d die?
    He could do the same to Kvothe – but my point is that he could still kill or defeat Kvothe, even if Kvothe doesn’t see him or -think- he exists.

  • Chris

    well done, Pat. Not only do you give a logical yet humerous solution for Kvothe to win, but you also give credit to Aslan and give him uber respect in the process. Again, well done.
    And to anyone who has yet to read Pat’s book, it has not taken forever. In fact, both the second and third books are already written, he just had to take some time off from editing for very personal reasons that he explains in his blog (which is another reason I love this man. his blog is A+).
    Plus, he has a beard that Chuck Norris would die for.

  • My hat is off to Mr. Rothfuss.
    Of course, the same tactic won’t work in the next battle if the voting trends don’t change before the end. I don’t think there’s much mileage to be found in appealing to Raistlin’s better nature.
    That’s okay… I’ll still be voting for Kvothe.

  • lightreizer

    You have a valid point with the dwarf arguement – but that was in Narnia, while this match does not necessarily take place there- as I said in my previous comment, Aslan does not have the same powers in the real world as he does in Narnia. For example, he can’t really affect the children in tCoN until they are actually in Narnia. If the match is in Narniaverse, then Kvothe is in trouble- but if it’s on a level playing field he would have the advantage.

  • CezeN

    I don’t remember enough about tCON, nor remember what book that stands for, to dispute your claim.
    So, I’ll concede your point.
    However, just read the author’s point of view, and I can see how Kvothe would realistically win…

  • Darkhorse

    Pats beard is actually a planting from Chucks beard. Chucks awesomeness manifested itself into Pats writing. Its also where he is hiding book two.

  • Citizen

    Rothfuss has spoken. His scenario acknowledges Alsan’s greatness, and requires no theology. Let the voting proceed.

  • Curious

    I love Kvothe, loved the first book, and am pulling for him in this one. My problem is not with how Kvothe beats Aslan, but it’s rather that I feel none of us (apart from Rothfuss himself) really understands Kvothe’s powers. After all, in the book we have only seen him as a child. We do not know how he earned all of his fame nor do we know exactly the extent of his powers.

  • Curious

    I love Kvothe, loved the first book, and am pulling for him in this one. My problem is not with how Kvothe beats Aslan, but it’s rather that I feel none of us (apart from Rothfuss himself) really understands Kvothe’s powers. After all, in the book we have only seen him as a child. We do not know how he earned all of his fame nor do we know exactly the extent of his powers.

  • angry dude

    Who the fuck cares about these pointless pseudo-philosophical arguments when Kvothe is much more awesome then Aslan? I don’t care if Aslan is the Creator of the Multiverse, as far as I’m concerned, Kvothe has a default win just by virtue of his pure awesomeness. Nuff said.

  • Drakey

    The reason we care is because awesomeness does not determine who would win in a cage match. I believe that Gurgi (Chronicles of Prydain anyone?) is awesome, but I would not bet on him against a rock.

  • Legbail

    Would the all-powerful Aslan consent to be placed in a cage match that goes against his moral grounding? I don’t think that Lion-Jesus would a) Let someone tell him what to do or b) Fight someone for no reason…
    Kvothe FTW

  • Drakey

    Oh, and one last thing: why was the White Witch scared of Aslan if He’s so vulnerable? White Witch vs. Kvothe = Kvothe turned into a stone statue. If she was so powerful then Aslan must be more powerful still, correct?

  • RFPII

    I enjoyed Mr. Rothfuss’s story a great deal more than the one posted by Suvudu. However, I still think it downplays the sheer sovereignty-for lack of a better term-of Aslan. Couldn’t Aslan simply defeat Kvothe and then resurrect him? The terms of the match seem to indicate you only have to incapacitate the opponent for the match to end, otherwise GRRM’s resolution is anything but a resolution as Cthulhu is still around. That being the case, Asalan would still win to better show his authority and power while mitigating the “despair in the hearts and minds of thousands.” Everyone, well, except Kvothe ;), wins.

  • Citizen

    RFPII, don’t you see, Aslan’s “sovereignty” is so supreme (especially in Heaven-Narnia, since Peter shut the door on the original Narnia) that he has nothing to prove. He has no need to win a cage match to demonstrate anything – walking away is states his power more clearly than fighting.

  • RFPII

    Um, then why would He show up in the first place? Is this a Kvothe power? To lure opponents out just to convince them of the futility of defeating him? 🙂
    And, quite frankly, it wouldn’t be much of a fight by even Mr. Rothfuss’s assesment. Indeed, if death isn’t necessary to win, he could just paralyze Kvothe, look out on the world, breathe on Kvothe to revive him, and walk away. Aslan still wins, He doesn’t need to kill anyone, Kvothe’s followers are safe from unending mental anguish and Kvothe learn’s a valuable lesson: there’s a world of difference between the main character and the Mane character. 😉
    We agree Aslan doesn’t need to be here but He is so he should win…and by the numbers He’s getting closer.

  • Citizen

    RFPII. A couple of reasons why he might show up:
    1. To show Kvothe that his naming powers don’t work in Narnia.
    2. Because he is surprised that Kvothe came to his home turf.
    3. Alternatively, because Kvothe’s naming powers do work in Narnia, so when Kvothe called, he came.
    One of Kvothe’s “powers” is his deviousness. He outwits or outargues people as much as he overpowers them.
    In any case, Rothfuss obviously liked C.S. Lewis as a kid, and the Mane thing was a very nice touch, as was the “Thank God” bit. I thought it was very gracefully done, allowing Kvothe to advance while also showing respect for Aslan.

  • RFPII

    1. Then I was right before.
    2. Let’s get back to this in a second.
    3. Rothfuss argued that this was not the case. Oh, and I was right before 😉
    Looking at number two again: I’m gonna need some actual evidence from the books that Aslan was ever outsmarted, tricked, or bamboozled. Nowhere in tCoN was Aslan ever portrayed as surprised or unprepared by any of the events. Quite the contrary, he walked in full accordance with the Deep Magic which outlined exactly what had to be. Nothing that was done either by His companions nor His enemies caught Aslan with His tail down. Even you admit that Aslan is “so supreme.” Thus, supposing Kvothe is the Locke Lamorra (fantastic books BTW–too bad he went up against another deus ex machina) of his world, how do you surprise Aslan on his? Rothfuss’s writing is great and I imagine he nailed Kvothe perfectly (duh) but I’m not convinced Aslan has any of the limitations that have been suggested.

  • Citizen

    RFPII,
    1. You’ve been right about several things before 😉
    2. Kvothe is outside of the strictures of the Deeper Magic, at least before he comes to heaven-Narnia, so that act could surprise Aslan.
    3. It doesn’t matter, Kvothe doesn’t need naming to work in Narnia to win.
    4. The whole thing about Aslan’s omnipotence yes/no is irrelevant if Kvothe talks him into conceding.
    I have to go away. Hope you can find someone else to debate.

  • jordan

    if your asking why aslan just doesnt kill him and revive him, you obviously dont know what morals are. the end result would end with kvothe being alive but in the process aslan would still be killing an innocent. what your suggesting is that the ends justify the means which if that was true many villians in history would actually be decent folk

  • Citizen

    Ok, one more: The number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin is 42. Deep Thought said so 😉

  • RFPII

    @ citizen: Thanks and its been fun.
    @ jordan: This is a cage match to the death for nothing but the sheer spectacle of seeing one hero defeat another–I didn’t realize we were discussing the morality of said event. However, I acknowledge that Aslan wouldn’t kill someone if the act was unneccessary to achieve victory: “Indeed, if death isn’t necessary to win, he could just paralyze Kvothe, look out on the world, breathe on Kvothe to revive him, and walk away.” I wrote that above. I believe this more accurately portrays Aslan but most of the matches, including the write-up from the editors, required the destruction of one of the contestants thus my earlier posting. I certainly do NOT believe the ends justify the means and ad hominem attacks are uncalled for.
    @ citizen #2: touche!

  • Lee

    Way to tell ’em, Pat. Eloquent, as always.

  • Tobias

    The result might be different, I think. If you need a “true name”, “Jesus Christ” isn’t actually accurate. Reasons:
    1. “Christ” was not part of Jesus’ name. It was his TITLE, not his name, and means “Anointed One”. Therefore, using “Christ” to name him would be incorrect and thus not his “true” name. In an English representation, his appropriate name (note: not “true” name) is Jesus of Nazareth or Christ Jesus of Nazareth. The title should come before the proper name. You don’t call Dr. House “Gregory Doctor” or “Gregory House Doctor”, so you wouldn’t (grammatically) call Jesus “Jesus Christ”. Title comes first and in my opinion has no place in a “True Name”.
    2. “Jesus” isn’t even accurate, it’s a transliteration of a Greek/Latin name “Iesus” and also may be a derivative of “Yeshua”, the Hebrew name that is the basis for “Joshua”. The name “Jesus” didn’t come forth until after translation and transliteration took place.
    These two considerations are semantic alone and do not even take into account the philosophy of whether or not he even has a true name (being as he is one of three “pieces” that make up God–the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) or whether anyone other than God is even capable of speaking such a name. Among men, the God of Abraham is attributed many names: Allah, Jehova/Jehovah, and YHWH (unpronouncable but approximated as “Yahweh”) being the most well-known of these. If it were in fact “God’s Name” that must be spoken, and not Jesus’ true name, even this would be difficult (if not impossible according to Christian/Abrahamic mythology).
    I’d like to emphasize that I’m not arguing this from the Christian standpoint of “It’s Jesus/God, you can’t beat Jesus/God”–only from the concrete semantic standpoints based on Jesus’ name and title translations/transliterations and on the supposed semantic standpoints that apply in the case that God is real. I make no claim to my standpoint on that issue.
    Also: I love lions, and the Narnia series is a very highly regarded classic staple of literature. Alsan has my vote.

  • Flaime

    Aslan doesn’t exist and Narnia is one of the worst series I’ve ever read. At least the Name of the Wind was readable.
    Kvothe wins

  • missalena

    PAT! I loved what you did with that blurb!!!! Awesome!

  • Samuel

    This wasn’t exactly a tough one for me, I admit it. I’m a HUGE Kvothe fan. That said, though, while I was fully intending in my own irrational, fanboyish way to vote for Kvothe all the way, it was Mr. Rothfuss’s excellent scenario that has allowed me to no longer feel even marginally guilty about my decision.
    Bravo!

  • The Stray

    I personally think Pat’s blurb is a better way for things to go down. It shows respect for both characters.

  • nexus

    Kovthe can easily kill Aslan, Aslan would probably roll over and die for him just to give him a chance to redeem himself. There is nothing in the rules that says he has to STAY dead. It’s still a deathmatch win as far as i’m concerned.

  • Zeraph

    LOL

  • rags

    Cain BlackKnife Owns All!

  • Starhammer

    If we can get Kvothe and Jaime Lannister to the final round we will get a blurb-off between Patrick Rothfuss and George R. R. Martin! Come on people that would be epic!

  • random person

    ” If we can get Kvothe and Jaime Lannister to the final round we will get a blurb-off between Patrick Rothfuss and George R. R. Martin! Come on people that would be epic!”
    semi final, but it would really be cool. An epic battle to decide

  • random person

    who gets stomped by Rand
    yay. I havent actually read name of the wind but i think i got it somewhere, probably gonna read it now. This contest is awesome!
    hitting submit sucks

  • Drakey

    Remember, Aslan died ONCE! It’s not like he goes and sacrifices himself over and over again, he dies once like Jesus, and then came back. He’s not going to just have Kvothe kill him.

  • Laura

    Actually in Pat’s scenario it says that Aslan doesn’t sacrifice himself, he conceives. Walks away. I liked it very much and the ending was clever, although I have hoped to get some news on Kvothe like a little preview or sth…

  • DiapDealer

    “Actually in Pat’s scenario it says that Aslan doesn’t sacrifice himself, he conceives”
    Aslan’s gonna have a baby?!?!

  • Drakey

    LOL!!! Nice!

  • Kathryn

    While I hardly know anything of Aslan or Narnia, from what I do know, he doesn’t sound like the type of person/lion who will kill someone in a contest just for our amusement. Doesn’t that mean he loses automatically?

  • Terry

    Let’s all remember. Aslan, Kvothe and Jesus are all FICTIONAL! Anything can happen.

  • Satt

    So if Aslan is a metaphorical Jesus Christ, does Kvothe win by default if you dont beleive in the Christian faith?

  • Laura

    OOHHH…lol..
    I was on the phone with a friend whos sister is pregnant…that’s prbably why I wrote this nonsense…funny though.

  • Trollmoar

    Troll moar plox

  • Ross

    Exactly Kathryn. Like I said before, Aslan only kills people who are evil (such naive concepts as “evil” apply in the Narniaverse.) Kvothe doesn’t fit the bill, and hence Aslan would sooner die than fight.
    RFPII, I would advise bringing the logic from your logic class to the discussion, but not the formalized vocab–the last time I accused someone of making an ad hominem attack against me, I got at least 30 replies that involved some variant of me being an asshat. 🙂

  • Citizen

    Ross, how about ad homonym attacks, where you get on someone’s case for making too many puns 😉

  • RFPII

    Duly noted.
    or…
    okeedokee. 🙂
    And I’ve never actually taken a class in logic. I just enjoy it and it makes it easier to present an argument. It may not have the passion of “kVoThe suxs!” but it gets the point across. 😉

  • Ross

    My apologies. Identifying major and minor premises and such just reminded me of someone who recently had to get it all just right on a homework assignment or get points taken off, haha. So I took a stab at it and guessed you were in or had recently finished a class.
    Citizen, I believe one should add homonyms to all attacks. 🙂

  • iwtblj

    To everyone who says that Kvothe could win because Aslan wouldn’t fight. Kvothe doesn’t fight unless he has to. He certainly wouldn’t fight anyone like Aslan because it’s not in Aslan character to put himself in a position where Kvothe would want to kill him. The whole point of this is to assume that they are fighting so motivations go out the window. People also seem to think that Kvothe can win because he’ll know Aslan’s name and Aslan depends on belief. What you’re basically saying is that if you take Kvothe at his absolute strongest and take Aslan at his absolute weakest (which we have no reason to assume) then Kvothe might win. Gotta go with Aslan

  • Citizen

    Ross, requiring homonyms in all attacks is not at all where I was going. Could be fun, but I prefer to await round three.

  • Citizen

    Cthulhu’s tentacles, can we not just close the voting for this round, and move on?

  • So. Curiosity defeats the cat?

  • Um. Wow.
    GRRM fan here from Not A Blog. I’ve heard mixed things about The Name of the Wind, and Kvothe sounded like a Grade-A douche in the Official Suvudu Summary, so I was hoping Aslan would barrel through this guy. (Narnia was my first fantasy series, for one.)
    But Patrick Rothfuss’ version of this fight is a total Crowning Moment of Awesome. And now, even though I voted for Aslan early on, I actually want to read his book.

  • keikleen

    I think Patrick wrote the battle most likely.
    In a conflict, Aslan surely win.
    Thinking in the psychology of the characters, it is pretty likely to Aslan to accept to back away of the battle, so that Kvothe can live for another book.

  • James E. Crego

    This can’t get any funnier than a mouse causing more confusion at a strip joint in Vegas. C’mon, Aslan v. Kvothe, what is this a lawsuit gone horribly wrong? Or has someone really lost their marbles? Could be Terry. But I don’t to think about that.

  • Andrew H

    Both books are amazing, both characters are awesome. Just enjoy the show and have fun. Stop ragging on either outcomes and accept it. The Name of the Wind isn’t exactly a “one hit wonder” when it’s the first novel he’s really put out. If he had put out dozens of books and only of them good, that’d be a one hit wonder. But the name of the wind is amazing, and so are the chronicles of narnia. Who cares who would win based on the books, thats what this is about, using more imagination than just the books to determine who “could” win.

  • dpomerico

    And thus ends Aslan’s run.
    But stay tuned: Kvothe battles Dumbledore starting this Wednesday, and in the meantime, make sure to watch the video recap: http://bit.ly/aDmhZe
    Also, make sure to vote on the beginning of Round 3, which just began:
    http://bit.ly/dCDWem

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