Cage Match 2011: Jon Snow versus Vin


The Contestants

Jon Snow.jpg

Click to view original image source


Click to view original image source

Jon Snow
Lord Commander of the Night Watch
Age: Late-teens
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Hand-and-a-Half Valyrian steel sword
His albino direwolf rips your throat out; warg

Age: Early 20s
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Obsidian knives; coins

The Breakdown


  • A skilled warrior
  • Commitment to honor and duty–all around good guy
  • Has a friggin’ direwolf
  • Warg

  • An incredibly talented Mistborn Allomancer
  • Hardened from life on the streets
  • Skilled hand-to-hand fighter

  • He’s a bastard…no, seriously.

  • She’s tiny


How we think the fight will go

The coin whipped by Jon’s head, and only Ghost’s sudden movement–and his turning to look at the wolf–kept him from being destroyed by the impossibly fast projectile.

He looked warily at his opponent—a young girl, from her appearance. And yet he knew looks could be deceiving—he’d seen what a determined woman could do when he had gone beyond the Wall. He barely had time to think about it as another movement from Ghost had him diving to the ground, rolling to a knee and drawing Longclaw in one fluid movement.

Before he knew what was happening, the girl was throwing a coin over her shoulder—and somehow his sword was torn from his grasp. Moving with a grace that would have made even the most practiced Westori sers look like bumbling fools, the girl danced out of the way of the weapon flying towards her. Reaching out as it passed by, she took hold of the hilt and spun smoothly, Jon’s sword now held in what he could tell was an expert hand.

The audience in the stadium gasped.

I’m going to die.


Vin swung the sword experimentally. Unlike the massive koloss blades she had wielded with the help of pewter, she had no need to burn any metals in order to handle such a beautiful weapon.

She also didn’t really need it—she just wanted to make sure this ended quickly, and the fewer advantages the warrior had, the sooner she could be done with these staged death-matches.

Shaking her head ever-so-slightly, she threw another coin over her shoulder at the wall behind her to act as a brace, simultaneously burning iron to pull on the man in black.

The one wearing chain-mail.

She could see his eyes widen in surprise, something she had experienced so often with guards in Luthadel. To be fair to her opponent, he couldn’t have been expected to know that armor was a disadvantage against a Mistborn.

But she also didn’t really care about being fair.

The warrior came hurtling towards her, and she set her shoulder so that he would be impaled on his own sword.


Jon Snow had always known he wasn’t the most experienced man on the Wall—he had been in a continuous fight with both the malcontents and himself to maintain control of the Watch. With seven hundred feet of ice looming over you everyday, it wasn’t hard to feel the constant pressure of being in over your head.

Yet he wasn’t some green babe just off his wet-nurse—he had gone beyond the Wall, and his charge was one he took as seriously as anything he ever had.

All of this swirled in his mind as he was jerked off his feet and was pulled through the air toward the point of Longclaw, the long distance of the stadium the only thing keeping him alive at the moment.

I’m going to die, he thought again. This body is going to die.

This body…

He saw Ghost out of the corner of his eye, silently moving across the stadium towards the girl.

An idea formed in his mind.


Vin wasn’t stupid. She realized she was small, and would be underestimated because of her size, but if this man thought his wolf was going to take her unbidden—if he thought she couldn’t handle both him and his pet—he really didn’t get what she was capable of.

Even as she Pulled on Jon, a spray of coins shot out towards the large white wolf. As long as she could slow it down for just a moment, she’d be able to deal with the man and then take care of the dog—if it still posed a threat.




His cry almost caused her to falter. She had heard cries like that before—cries of men, of friends—who knew all was lost.

Cries of mortality.

Cries that echoed in her dreams when she relived Kelsier’s death…or Elend’s brush with it in the Well.


Vin screamed, the sword dropping to the ground.


He could see his own body lying on the ground, yards away, unmoving. Ghost was moving towards his inert form, limping. A trickle of red marred the wolf’s white fur on Ghost’s right forepaw.

He saw all of this through her eyes.

Vin he now knew. Her name is Vin.

He was inside her, fighting to control her, a battle of wills so completely unlike slipping inside of Ghost. She fought and she was powerful, and her screams were both hers and his own. The pain was intense, and so were the sensations as she—what was the word?—burned her metals, trying everything she could to shake the presence working to dominate her.

But Jon was powerful, too. And even as he filled her mind, he felt sure that none of the metals she had—none of the powers she possessed—could do anything to expel him.


Vin kept screaming, and it was the fear of being a child of the street, of having a brother who could betray her at any moment and a boss who could do whatever he wanted to her.

The feeling of not being dominant anymore.

It was worse than anything she had ever experienced, if only because Vin had known this before, but had overcome. To be thrown back into chains—chains she had no control over—was almost too much to bear.

And yet…Vin wasn’t stupid.


Slowly—gradually—Jon’s ability as a warg was winning out over Vin’s will. If he could completely take control, he might survive. Even if she was still resisting, he was fairly confident he could beat her now.

Then a wall of blinding light struck his/her eyes.

The sound of the crowd exploded—and kept on exploding.

His nostrils were overwhelmed with the stench of the bodies packed into the arena.

Jon’s mind reeled at the sensory overload. His control of Vin slipped.


Duralumin and tin, she thought. Who could have guessed they’d have value like this in a fight?

The intensity of the sights and sounds grated on her, too, but having burned tin enough in the past, she wasn’t rendered useless by it. Now she only had to figure a way to get him out.

What she needed was time.


If the Wall did one thing for a man, it made them adapt to extremes. And while it wasn’t cold he was struggling against at the moment, he knew he had to master the intensity that was bombarding him from all around.

It was painful—and he knew he couldn’t make the pain go away—but he could push the pain down. Ignore it.

As he fought through the sensations, he realized something else: the more he was Vin, the more likely he’d be able to stop this onslaught.

It hurt him, but he looked around the stadium, and was heartened to see Ghost charging towards Vin, the wolf wounded leg no more than a hindrance to it’s swift gait…

That now looked as if it had completely stopped.


Vin wasn’t sure how long the cadmium bubble would last, but it was the only card she could think to play. She had tried to Soothe Jon, make him more pliable and agreeable to leaving her mind, but it caused the strangest feelings in her—as if she wanted to get out of her own mind.

He’s in too deep.

I might be in too deep.


He regained the control he had lost when Vin burned tin, and he could feel that the tin was now gone, used up in the flare of duralumin. He still felt blinded, but he was recovering his senses—both his ability to sense and his own mind.

Until he felt like he was losing it again, that is.


It was disorienting, as she saw two futures expanding into their own myriad futures. She saw all her own possibilities as well as Jon’s, and the jumbled mess that the electrum caused was almost no help.

There were two paths, though—one his, one hers—that could possibly…

Ghost leapt, and with time having been slowed, it seemed like the wolf was shooting off the ground with unnatural speed as the cadmium bubble disappeared. Jon couldn’t help it—he flinched.

Vin, though, didn’t.

Her body, burning pewter, did move with unnatural speed, and she easily ducked under the wolf’s attack.

While in momentary control, she burned atium.

Ghost’s attack was almost as graceful as anything Vin’s pewter-enhanced body could muster, and yet she knew where the wolf’s grace was taking it, and she side-stepped again—pulling an obsidian blade from her sleeve and jabbing it straight into the wolf’s chest.

Ghost stumbled to the ground.

The wolf wasn’t moving.


Jon would have cried if he had a body able to cry. But his anguish had once again caused his control to slip, and his dispair was growing by the second. It hit him in like blows, the desire to just give up and die.

It felt natural—that he too should give in to the cold place and be with his companion.

Be with his father. His brother.

His brothers…


Vin could feel her body become more and more hers. She felt the anguish she was Rioting in Jon, but as he slipped more and more from her mind, it was easier to handle—especially knowing it wasn’t actually her anguish. She kept burning the zinc, even as she moved to the man’s body lying prone on the arena floor.

Her knife dripping the wolf’s blood.


He watched his death.

Or, rather, he watched as he walked to the future, where he would kill himself.

It was a terrible moment.

A moment that switched his anguish to fear…to anger. Anger over Ghost’s death. Anger that he would be letting his brothers down by not being there to lead them at the wall. Anger that he was disappointing his family–failing the name Stark…even if it wasn’t truly his name.

Anger that was being stoked by Vin.


It was inside her: the anguish changing to anger; the control changing to subjugation.

It was inside her: a mind strong again, a mind not her own.

It was inside her: an obsidian blade, coated in an animal’s blood, piercing her pewter-enhanced body with her own pewter-enhanced strength.

It wasn’t inside her: the metals she had swallowed, that had lived in her stomach—the same stomach that was now sliced open, spilling her life to the ground.


Jon returned to his body in time to look up from the ground as Vin collapsed to it.

He got up and walked towards where Longclaw lay in the dust. Picking up the weapon, he moved back to Vin, her guts held in her hands, her eyes strangely calm.

He nodded, and with a swift stroke, removed her head from body.

Wiping Longclaw off on her strange cloak, he resheathed his weapon. Tears in his eyes—finally able to cry—he made his way to his beloved wolf.

And gasped as he saw Ghost take a shallow breath.

Predicted Winner: Jon Snow


Check out the previous match!

Check out the next match!

Check out the Bracket

Jon Snow is a character from the A Song of Ice and Fire series by George R.R. Martin; Vin is a character from the Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson

Jon Snow image courtesy of Michael Komarck. Vin image courtesy of Chris McGrath

  • Andrew

    wow, the homerism is strong for George R martin.

    Jon Snow literally wouldn’t stand a prayer

  • Vin for the win! (Sorry Jon, but it’s been, like, five years, and loyalty fades…)

  • Kah-thurak

    Very strange wright up… nowhere in Martin’s books does Jon Snow have concious control of his mind sharing with Ghost. Let alone beeing able to control another human beeing against his/her will. I have not read the Mistborn books, but from what I have read about Vin here it seems unlikely that she should loose to Jon Snow who is nothing but an above average swordsman who sometimes uses Warg-Magic in his dreams.

  • Robert

    Vin owns this. Go vin go!

  • Dunno

    Heh. You know, it’s going to be kind of hilarious if, after all the whining, bitching, wailing, and gnashing of teeth that’s gone on over “it’s just gonna be Martin vs. Jordan again, the fanboys always ruin everything, waaa…” the final is actually Vin vs. Quick Ben.

  • Robert

    If Jon gets all his power, Von should get all hers. Only fair….

    I doubt Jon could kill her either way though.

    Go vin go!

  • Arra

    That was a cheap fight. It seems the writer wanted to make sure Jon wins no matter what. Seriously? Jon doesn’t have a chance if they didn’t just invent new abilities for him to make sure he wins. Vin had him from the first encounter.

  • wcarter4

    Really? This has to be the most alternate universe characters of any write up I’ve ever seen. Vin doesn’t even know that Cadmium exists–in fact there’s no indication that it was decades or even a century or two before all the metals were discovered after the original series ends. As for Jon’s warg powers, they just flat out don’t work that way…

    I think Vin would have a huge advantage in this fight based on how they fight and the tools they use, but as far as the flame wars and “fanboy” arguments go I honestly don’t care who wins.

  • Erunion

    Creative, but Jon doesn’t have that kind of control over his Warg powers. Even Bran can only slip inside the mind of a mentally handicapped person. This is something Snow can’t do. Currently, he’s wearing Chain-mail and wielding a metal sword. That leaves him basically 0% chance vs. Vin, even with Ghost backing him up.
    I really can’t see how Snow could win this fight, apart from stabbing Vin in her sleep (which is bloody unlikely, considering how paranoid Vin is and how she wakes up whenever anyone enters the room…)

    Don’t get me wrong, I love Jon Snow as a character – he’s well written, believable and has the cool factor. But he’s just no match for Vin in a fight.

  • dpomerico

    And yet he is a warg–and it’s a power a warg has. While he might not have realized it yet, who’s to say he couldn’t at some point…such as during this fight?

    Obviously there will always be a problem of where the write-ups take place in a character’s “life,” but we wanted to show a way Snow could win the match if he was at his full powers.

    Personally, I think Vin would win–that the first coin she shot would be lodged in his brain–but the fun of fantasy is speculation. And figuring out how the underdog could win.

    This is the only way I see it happening for Jon.

  • Shadow’sBane

    Many Your Write Up Shows how Partial towards aSoIaF series……I mean Vin Could Kick Jon’s Ass any time..Yet u twist the circumstances to an impossible degree to Make aSoIaF character win….Its not just this match its in most of all the matches in which ASoIaF characters are involved….u shouldn’t be Biased in the Write ups.

  • Ben

    This is absolutely absurd.

    It’s one thing for voters to fanboy. This sort of thing is not only expected, it’s part of the POINT of this whole exercise. No one expects the votes to reflect what would happen in reality. It’s quite another for the writers to fanboy. This writeup is pretty good for the first two paragraphs, but as soon as John Snow starts decides that he can take over Vin’s mind, I realized that the writer wanted Vin to lose. I mean, this is a fantasy/sf news website, right? You guys probably post reviews of these books, and thus might even read them. Would it be so difficult, even if the writer hadn’t touched either series (which is fairly obvious, due to his lack of familiarity with either character past what a quick Wikipedia skim would give), to just ask someone else on the staff who HAD read the books to give it a quick read over? You don’t even have to find someone who has read both series — just one person who has read ASOIAF and one who has read the Mistborn trilogy. The first would tell you that you’re a blasphemous fool for giving John Snow MIND CONTROL ABILITIES. The second would just laugh at you, because you reference metals that Vin would never have known existed and haven’t been used in any published books / short stories by Sanderson. Whoops.

    Vin would destroy Snow. Utterly and completely. He’s a boy. A well-trained one, perhaps, but at one point in the Mistborn series Vin wipes out a contingent of more than three hundred competent swordsmen who were stupid enough to wear metal armor and use metallic weapons against her. Against Ghost, she wouldn’t have had that advantage, but the wolf is, even if more intelligent than most of his breed, still a wolf. If John had been carrying the “dragonglass” daggers (for the writer: that’s what ASOIAF calls obsidian) he found beyond the Wall, we could even have had an interesting knife fight. He could have had arrows tipped with “dragonglass”, and Vin could have been wounded by one of them to make things interesting. But sadly, we got this fanboy travesty.

  • waireut

    What the hell, that’s just rude. Ghost isn’t a dog. Nobody could make that mistake.

    Also, what the hell happened? What a crappy write up.

  • UseR2006

    Agreed, Vin has this in the bag, also interestingly if snow has a wolf why can’t vin have Tensoon in the Hounds body? not to mention Vin normally pushes more than one coin at an opponent.

    Also as the others have mentioned, Jon Snow doesn’t have that ability to take complete control.

    Hell, a duralumin push directly against Snow in his armor or against the sword she takes off him directly at him would end the fight instantly. She could also use one of the many coins flung initially that now would be behind Snow to pull it back and kill him in his back with them as this is a trick she has used multiple times.

    As for the Rioting, Vin would know instantly if the mood changed from despair to Anger and altered it accordingly since she was changed by Breeze (most powerful soother ever).

    Vin is just too good for Snow.

  • UseR2006

    taught* lol silly 2am typos.

  • Erunion

    March 28, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    And yet he is a warg–and it’s a power a warg has. While he might not have realized it yet, who’s to say he couldn’t at some point…such as during this fight?

    Obviously there will always be a problem of where the write-ups take place in a character’s “life,” but we wanted to show a way Snow could win the match if he was at his full powers.

    Personally, I think Vin would win–that the first coin she shot would be lodged in his brain–but the fun of fantasy is speculation. And figuring out how the underdog could win.

    This is the only way I see it happening for Jon.”

    I see where you’re getting at, this is the only way Jon could have won, and we don’t know where in the series we’re pulling the characters from. However, if you pull a Jon with powers he doesn’t even have yet, (if he ever gets them), wouldn’t it be reasonable for Vin to use powers that she does have by the end of the series (namely, you know MAJOR SPOILER becoming a god-like being, or burning the mists or anything of that nature /END MAJOR SPOILER)?
    I really don’t see Jon winning this, even if Warg’s had mind-control powers. Vin’s survivability and own mental control give her the win here.

    Still, it is fun playing devil’s advocate and looking for ways that an underdog could win. I’m surely going to hunt for ways that poor Perrin could take down Quick Ben.

  • Ashtear

    There is no way Vin would lose this match. And yes, fanboys will be fanboys, but from what I’m seeing here, first, the write up was extremely biased, and the lack of familiarity of the writer with the source material is extremely evident. Second, either Jon’s fanboys aren’t in showing here at these comments, or even they are stunned by the way their character has been misrepresented.

    Either way, even Jon’s fans recognize he has no chance in this match.

  • KingMudkip

    Where the heck did the cadmium come from? I haven’t read anything about it beign an Allomantic metal.
    And as has been said above, how could Vin possibly lose against a guy wearing freaking chain mail? That’s impossible, plain and simple. I don’t know anything about Jon being able to control minds – haven’t read aSoIaF – but he shouldn’t have even had a chance to use such a power before Vin killed him.

  • Nic82

    Well, it’s overpowered characters like Vin that give fantasy a bad name. One dragon-glass tipped arrow between the eyes. Ghost eats cliché for breakfast 🙂

  • Ursula

    I don’t really know Jon Snow ( or aSoIaF – I’ll get there eventually) , but as soon as I read ” Guy with metal sword wearing chain mail” It seemed that something pretty ridiculous had to happen for Vin to lose (chromium aside, she only really needed Iron). I’m also going to note that “mind control powers” were not really covered in the list of Snow’s abilities, so that seemed out of left field even without the other commenters noting that he was not able to do this.

    If you really, REALLY needed to find a way to make Vin lose, you could have at least given the man a chance to prepare by ditching the chain mail before the fight, and allow that Vin had burned up all her atium. All these matches seem to disregard Vin’s major disadvantage in any fight, which is that she can and will run out of metals eventually. She’s fighting all these powerful, clever people who never figure out that their best strategy is to force her to run out of metals early and blow her Atium before the kill.

    As it is though, Snow walked into an arena full of guns, where only Vin had any ammunition .

  • Kenzal

    @Michael – Loyalty nothing. There is almost no way Snow could win this fight without it a) being a fluke, or b) giving him additional powers he does not possess in the books (as in the write-up above).

    I consider myself a fan of both series, but Snow could not win this one in a fairly begun fight (there’s always a chance he just kills Vin in her sleep, but that seems like too much of a Lanister way of going about things)

  • John

    Oh fuck I accidentally voted for Jon Snow. BAH. I think Vin should take this, as much as I love Jon Snow.

    Good write up, I thought actually.

  • Shancaldazar


    How is Vin overpowered? You have to put a character into perspective with their series. Vin can’t just walk all over her enemies like thelord ruler. Otherwise by your logic George rr martins wildcats series those “characters” are overpowered because some can practically destroy an entire planets!! So by your logic your author that you worship created the biggest crime of all! So please remember that some characters may be more powerful than characters from another series but that doesn’t make them over powered

  • balanced

    finally a decent writeup that gave both sides of the action. And of decent length and depth too. Kudos SUVUDU, youre getting better!

    @ everyone else,

    does it really matter who won? You’re still gonna lose in the finals


  • Marid

    Yes, its neck to neck! you can do it Vin!!

  • Lawlface

    @ Nic –

    Jon was just given abilities he doesn’t even possess and you’re going to whine about overpowered characters? Please.

  • GaR

    These fights have never been about who would actually win and entirely about which book more people like.

    So I voted Jon Snow even though he’s nothing more than a decent swordsman with a pet wolf.

  • breadedwit


    Honestly I dont know who you are rooting for. How can it be a good write up just because its balanced? You could have a giant beast against a puppy dog and then say the puppy dog has venom like a snake when we all now he has no venom like a snake. It makes it more balanced but honestly its just not true so it makes the story stupid. When you “add” to abilities without the understanding I just cant respect the write up.

  • Daniel

    Doesn’t copper protect Vin from anything that might effect her mind?

    I know it protect her from people trying to find her or influence her with alomancy. But I figure it should also work against other people trying to control or influence her as well even if it isn’t within the same magic system.

  • Brian

    Alright, Vin is making a comeback! Come on People Vin and Quick Ben in the Final. Let’s strike a blow against homerism and for logic. I love Perrin and Jon Snow. They are two of my favorite characters, but neither of them deserved to get this far based only on their abilities.

  • torch

    Who the sodding hell is jon snow and why would he ever stand a chance against Vin? From a realistic, magic/physics standpoint, he should not be able to survive for more than one breath against her. Being a full Mistborn there is literally nothing a mere mortal, no matter how \skilled\ a warrior he is, could do to harm her.

    So I call bullshit, and what is most likely yet another case of that retarded GRRM fanatism on the writer’s part. That snow bastard should never have gotten past Beowulf, let alone Alvin Maker. This whole cage match just keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

  • Nic82

    @ Lawlface

    You miss my point. Jon ‘should’ lose. I just hope he wins, because I don’t really like over-powered characters., and her character is ridiculous.

  • Surprised

    to the Suvudu writers:
    Since this is just a fanvote anyway, and you often include the (very biased) writeups from some of the authors, would it be possible to offer two versions? One writeup for each contender? then Just say who you think would win, and maybe give your vote a 5% vote swing (ala the recent Hulu voting)

  • waireut

    @ torch

    You realize that George Martin had nothing to do with the “fanatism”, right? Its all Suvudu foolery.

  • AHEM

    The write-up was intense and suspenseful, but ultimately a disappointment compared to the previous ones for Vin. Here, the character who could not possibly win was given the victory, using powers that he does not possess, which would be ineffective against Vin anyway due to her almost constantly burning a metal that renders her mind immune to manipulation.

    Vin doesn’t even need to burn duralumin, fight off Jon’s mind, impale him with his own sword, or even burn atium. If Jon (or Ghost) got within ten feet of her, she’d snap his neck like a chicken bone before his muscles could contract enough to so much as lift his arm.

    Really, in a fight, Vin would solo every last man of the whole Night’s Watch at once, rip Ghost in half with her bare hands, shatter Jon’s skull with her own head, scale the entire freaking wall to go into the haunted forest and wipe out every single one of the Others with her obsidian weapons, and then personally assassinate Cercei, Stannis, Daenerys, and every other one of the warmongering fools in Westeros and install a new government. Then all of the problems in aSoIaF will be over and GRRM will be able to finish his series in record time.

    Vin = action girl badass incarnate. Vin for the finals!

  • semirhage

    to all here:
    I think that the predicted winner is based on prediction of votes and then making the plot how it might happen. I just started game of thrones by grrm, and i have read mistborn few times. Grrm has huge fandom, that is why Jon is predicted to win. There is nowhere written that he fight will be according to really who should win by force.
    I really liked this writeup, it seems to me that the author know a lot from mistborn, even though he includes metals not in mistborn. The cadmium reference should probably be to fans that know about brandon’s posts (???, personally i dont know if that is true even though i have a feeling he said something like that on twitter)

    anyways 🙂 i liked the write up even though my favorite died in there 🙂

  • Matt

    i just started the mistborn series and i think that vin would only need to burn some atium and kill jon, no chance for him anyway

  • WHassinger

    Uh, Vin. I mean, really, this fight doesn’t last anywhere near as long as it’s being made to last. Vin never needs to touch the guy or get close to kill him ten times over. Jon’s awesome, no question, but he’s not Vin.

  • Nick

    People dont seem to realise that this is not a vote for who would actually win situation. Obviously Jon has no chance against someone with super powers (idk anything about mistborn) because he is from a series where people, with very few exceptions, are NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS!!!!! So please stop freaking out about “This guy could never actually beat this guy” because that doesnt really matter. Vote for who YOU like more as a fan of a series/character and stop bitching about Jon beating Beowulf (a borderline superhero)!!!!!
    That said: GO JON ALL THE WAY!!!!!!

  • Erunion

    Cadmium, along with several other metals, is a metal that is not seen in the original Mistborn trilogy, but that Sanderson has told the fans about (it’s on the Allomantic Metals poster). It’ll likely play a role in his upcoming novel set in the Mistbornverse, Alloy of Law.

    @ Nic82
    Vin is overpowered in this match-up, like Quick Ben and Pug are also overpowered. Really, there should be several different cage-matches, with the characters being placed in different power classes.
    However, I digress. Vin would be a ridiculous character if thrust into ASOIAF, as she would be far more powerful than any character there. However, she is not ridiculous or overpowered on Scadrial (the planet where Mistborn is set).
    Also, calling her a ridiculous character is, well, ridiculous. She among the most believable and well fleshed-out characters in Fantasy today (many of GRRM’s characters would be on that list to, Martin has a gift for writing excellent characters).
    If you haven’t yet, I strongly urge you to read Mistborn. Unfortunately, the comments here will have spoiled things for you somewhat, but it is still a brilliantly written and very enjoyable series.

  • MrIzzy

    I voted Jon Snow, not because he would really win, but because I was glad to finally see a write-up where Vin isn’t the obvious favorite. Every match-up between her and her opponent has been blatantly tilted her way. In fact, this was the first one to feature a story not told entirely from her POV. And when she tore up Zedd, the most badass wizard of his world and a guy who has destroyed armies, with a freaking anchor, it was time for her to go down, opponent be damned.

  • torch

    The way I see it, the contenders in these matches were selected randomly. It is noone’s fault that a miserable weakling like jon snow ends up against stronger opponents. I am still baffled how this pathetic roach ever made it past Alvin Maker who, in my opinion, was powerful enough and worthy of winning the entire cage match.

    The entire setup is wrong. You either do a popularity contest without any fancy fight write-ups based purely on which series/writer has more fans, or you do write _realistic_ ups taking each character’s corresponding world magic system into account.

    As these write-ups stand now, they are neither and both. They bend the rules of magic from the characters’ books horribly, overlooking facts that are pointed over and over again in the comments, and then leave it up to series/book popularity to decide who wins.

    This just doesn’t work.

  • Ratbongo

    People are talking about power but that’s a pretty boring way to look at it in my view. In the stories, the most powerful person/entity/whatever will not always win and such characters are rarely amongst the most interesting in my experiences. Most stories are wrapped around very unusual circumstances to be interesting and just measuring power is not interesting.

    For matches like this (where they clearly don’t try to match power level) to make any form of sense I think you have to look at what makes an interesting story. Why bother pointing out the obvious that Cthulu is more powerful than Samwise Gamgee?

    As for this specific match up I can’t really say much as I haven’t read Mistborn. I’m a big fan of ASOAIF but I won’t vote against something I’m not familiar with.

  • comment man #1

    But at the same time it is a competition to decide who you think would win. I get that popularity would come into it, but deciding who would win is part of the fun, like a fight between Zed and Vin (I beleive Vin would win as she did, as I have only read up to book 5 in SoT and although Zed is referenced as being powerful I haven’t seen him make good use of it yet). If we just go off popularity Perrin wins, as WoT is probably the most popular series atm. When in reality Paul Atradies would have beat him down.
    Like last years match Drizzt made it to the semi’s while only being a swordsman and killing some powerful enemies, but at the same time he had a concievable chance, as many forgotten realms wizards who people would have considered over powered ended up on the end of Drizzt’s blades. Its just Vin is like the underdog in her series, overcoming crazy odds, she just has a very logical allomancy to do it with (I hope they put the Lord Ruler in if they do a villians one, he is so cool apart from the fact that Vin has to kill him for the series to continue).

  • Sean

    I voted for Jon (guess im a fanboy haha) but vin should definitely win. And for those of you wondering if suvudu has bias… just scroll to the top of the page. Wow a giant A Dance with Dragons add haha

  • elena

    vin is winning? what the hack?

  • MJ

    I imagined that Jon wouldnt stand a chance, but the write up is just wrong.

    I dont see Jon snow as the person who would show up this unprepared (In chain mail and with a metal sword). He has experience with other beings that require obsidian or fire to destroy so it would be more likely, imo, for him to show up with obsidian daggers and arrows.

    If that were the case ghost and Jon could offer some challenge, however if hed show up as in the write-up, in chain mail and with Longclaw hed be dead in 10 seconds.

  • MJ

    The above said; I still voted for Jon Snow because I enjoy the write-ups of the fights involving him much more than the ones involving Vin….

    She ends up burning some metals and shooting metal stuff all around *yawn*

  • @kenzal

    But the cage matches have nothing to do with objective ‘reality’. The fun bit (for me at least) is the fitting of the results to the votes. Beneath that is the figuring out how the votes will go. And as popular as Jon Snow is as a character, and Ice and Fire as a series, it’s been years since the last instalment and I believe Vin will win not because she’s more powerful as a character (she is) but because the fan base for Sanderson is now marginally larger than Martin – not in terms of absolute numbers, but in excitement.

    Now if this match had taken place *after* the airing of the HBO series, Vin would be taken down. The buzz factor wouold have swung towards Martin again.

  • Oraymw

    Go Vin!!

    I love Jon though, so I really don’t care who wins.

  • Sir Read-a-Lot

    To be fair to the writers, they have to make the match interesting somehow. And frankly, that’s rather difficult with a match as clear cut as this one. Even with the completely metal-free direwolf, Vin wins piece of cake. The only other plausible close match would include Ghost taking Vin by surprise, which is almost more ridiculous. Jon’s amazing, but Vin is, well, Vin.

  • Shancaldazar


    Actually it’s not that surprising as most likely some WoT fans will be helping Vin out cause Brandon is finishing WoT, and i think its been proven that the Wot community is stronger than the aSoIaF.

  • Chris

    So, a match where both characters stand a chance in terms of voters. This shall be interesting.

  • Ocard

    I hate reading about over powered characters. I am sure Vin in her native setting has her equals, and is not quite on par with Rand Al’Thor’s ridiculous level of omnipotence as well as not being alone in this tournament as “too powerful” but she is that. It makes for boring fiction. That is one of the reason’s Superman is a terrible super hero. Too powerful, can do anything, has no weakness (than later kryptonite is introduced as a weakness, but it is rare, and than later, it is plentiful, as the Custodians of the Superman character realized just how unappealing an unstoppable, perfect hero was….) yada yada yada. So I really hope Jon goes all the way. Not JUST because i am a fan, but because I can’t buy into practically omnipotent heroes.

  • Comatose

    I enjoyed the write-up, even though it broke my heart to chose between two of my favorite series (I’m practically dieing with excitement for Game of Thrones (the show) and Dance with Dragons coming out this year, and I just finished my latest reread of the latest mistborn book). Power wise, Vin is an obvious choice (hate to toot an old horn), but character wise, I think they are both cool and complex. In the end, I picked Vin, mostly because George R R Martin has been a force in all the cage matches to date, and it’s nice to see Vin, a character from a book I read when it first came out, before all the WoT hype (I actually just read WoT last summer for the first time, and though I enjoyed it, I like Martin’s and Sanderson’s (solo) books better), get some credit and recognition. Even though she’s an obvious power house, because Mistborn is not as big as ASoIaF, she is still the underdog in my eyes, and I love the underdog.

    All around though, good write-up, and good cage match so far 😀

  • shardbearer

    As much as I love Vin, she is just too overpowered, just as Rand was last year. The scopes of the different books lead to different power levels across the playing field, like in aSoFaI there arnt as powerful people.

  • Enoch

    I don’t know Ocard, whenever I read Mistborn I don’t think of Vin as too powerful. Even if she is, it makes for great action scenes ;)!

  • Jlingo

    GRRM Fanboys trying to ruin another Cage Fight. What else is new? It really does remind me of Twilight girl like obsession. Do these people have Jon Snow posters hanging over their bed or something??? Vin would walk up to the Wall and obliterate the whole Night Watch, Jon Snow and his little dog too. Nice try by giving Jon Snow powers he does not even have too.

  • johthohar

    Hmmm…. Whoever did this write up seems to be very familiar with the Mistborn series but not so much with ASoIaF. Jon hasn’t even figured out yet that he can consciously take control of Ghost. And Bran may have been able to take control of a panicked Hodor for a short period of time but there’s no evidence at all that any warg could possess the mind of a person without mental handicaps. Even if they could, Jon certainly doesn’t have enough control over his abilities to do so. I say Vin would win this one. Though, Ghost’s involvement would make it a close thing.

  • Brian

    How did Jon Snow gain 500 votes after 2AM on a Monday night?

  • Viktor

    @Brian ever heard of this place called Europe? It’s kind of big and has Germans and this country which is shaped like a boot (no really) and is called Italy. They also insist on staying up at night when proper Americans are sleeping. It’s general knowledge that the average American grasp of geography fails, but really?

  • Brian

    I simply ask how Jon Snow got 500 votes after 2AM on a Monday night and the comment is taken down. There were perfectly valid ways to respond to that question. This is a bit too suspicious.

  • The First Wizzard

    I just love how Vin goes through one of the most powerful Wizards in epic fantasy like he’s made of cardboard, and is getting her ass served by a dude with a wolf and a sword.
    I always thought Zedd would win, because his Additive magic enables him to transmute metal into other materials, and that would make her powers rather useless… I voted based on that assumption, no the asinine battle report.
    I didn’t vote in this match out of spite, although she had beat one of my favorite characters. Jon just doesn’t stand a chance…
    Oh well, I should’ve know whoever wins the cage fights isn’t the ultimate Speculative Fiction character, just the one with the most fanboys!
    Hey Sanderson, your character is getting creamed, write another battle report so YOUR fanboys come here and bring justice to the fight… sort off…

  • Brian

    Oh it’s back up. My bad. Yes I know of Europe, which is probably the most logical answer. It still seems a bit suspicious to me, but that could be the answer.

  • johthohar


    A country shaped like a boot!? The very notion is absurd! Nay, preposterous!!!! What is the “Europe” place? A land of whiners and snobs no doubt as you’ve so readily demonstrated!! Take your snide remarks and untoward snootiness elsewhere, peasant! Obviously your smug little continent is unworthy of such an amazing place as this!

  • comment man #1

    But we want cool match ups, people with regular swords fighting each other is all well and good, but there are a thousand such fights in every fantasy book ever, a fight between Quick Ben and Paul Atradies, or Rand and somebody like Sauron (the book Sauron, not at the end of the fight Sauron they showed in the movies) would have been epic, like Illian invaded by orcs 😉 or just a massive magic battle. Instead it was “Rand burns Mountain that Rides into a small pile of ash *END*”
    I know the stories that got put up didn’t say that, but they aren’t fooling anybody for a second.

  • Woodwork

    This is like picking your favorite child! Put I’ll go with the underdog (based on the number of die-hard fans) and pick Vin in this one.

    Of course, in a “realistic” duel the Bastard probably wouldn’t stand a chance (barring a(n un) timely lack of allomantic metals), but who evaluates fantasy stories based on what’s realistic?

  • Gordon

    @Ocard It’s not the fact that she’s invulnerable and/or overpowered. It’s just that everyone who has read the books knows EXACTLY what Vin is capable of. Her powers are perfectly defined. You seem to be complaining about characters with vaguely described near-omnipotence, but in Vin’s case the opposite is true. We know exactly what Vin is and is not capable of, and so we know exactly what she would do in this situation.

  • Shancaldazar

    GRRM fans.. really stop cheating.. jon snows numbers just dont jump up by 80 in the space of 3 minutes after barely getting 30 votes for the last 2 hours

  • Julie

    @Shancaldazar Maybe it’s just because Game of Thrones’ official twitter just published a link to this poll? Hm… I guess haters gonna hate anyway…

  • Shancaldazar

    @ Julie well i didn’t know that and it was extremely suspicious getting a exponential increase in votes.. not like there hasnt been cheating before in these cage matches…

  • johthohar


    Cheating? How? You think the Suvudu administrators are falsifying the results? Or some over zealous fan is hacking and adding votes? How could anyone cheat!? You can’t even vote more than once! Would everybody please stop crying! Oh… And vote for Quick Ben against Perrin when that match starts so I don’t have to cry too.

  • waireut


    u mad, bro?


  • Jlingo

    Listen trollbait. Stop drooling over your Jon Snow poster (or whatever else you do) and contribute something worthwhile for a change…

  • Noob

    I wouldn’t say Vin is overpowered. She gets her ass handed to her in her own universe several times. She’s simply better than a guy with a sword. And a wolf. I understand some people want “normal” characters, but if that’s the case, you’re in the wrong genre. Fantasy is about, well, the fantastical. Having a magic system isn’t a crime.

  • breadedwit

    I agree with Noob. If Vin is over powered then every single book with a complex magic system in use is overpowered. So Rand from WoT may be overpowered I will give you that. But Vin is far from Superman. She would get destroyed by a lot of characters and here power has like a butt load of weaknesses. She has to follow the laws of physics (For the most part) and she is done if she runs out of metals. NOT OVERPOWERED.

  • Josepe

    I don’t really think of Vin as overpowered. There are plenty of magic users that are equal or more powerful than she is. As much of a bad ass Jon Snow and Ghost are, they only really have physical means of attack. Vin, meanwhile, can strike from a distance and use forces that Jon cant respond to. As much as it hurts for me to say it, unless we decide Vin ran out of metals or something she would win this match.

  • fictionnerd

    Vin is unique in this tournament because her magic is so unique. You generally have two groups. Powerful magicians/magic users, etc. (Zed, Quick Ben, Paul etc.) And you have the Warrior types, who have a special ability or two, but are generally just great fighters (Jon Snow, Perrin, Logen Ninefingers). In my opinion, Vin doesn’t fall into either of these categories. Her magic is too rigid and well defined to fall into the first category, and she is far too powerful and skilled with Allomancy to fall into the second. Vin is not an overpowered character (we’re talking non-Shard Vin). She simply has a very well defined skill set. Her match up with Zed was difficult, from a realism standpoint. Although I believe she could pull it out, her magic does not match up well with a mage/traditional magic user. Jon Snow, however, is an entirely different matter. If the writers of this match wanted to make it closer, they should have either warned Jon about her powers (ex. Have him not wear chain mail and carry a metal weapon) or handicapped Vin a little. Making up powers for Jon is just silly. Even if Jon didn’t have any metal on him, and Vin was handicapped a little (No Atium, maybe?) Vin takes this. Not because she’s an overpowered superman character (’cause she’s definitly not), but because she matches up very well against plain warrior types.

  • Ok, so I am not the only one who thinks huge license has been taken here in regard to Jon Snow’s abilities. I love both of these characters, but had to vote Vin. The way he wins is rather laughable, though I understand we couldn’t end it with Jon impaled on his own sword and Ghost opened by an obsidian dagger. That would, I don’t know, make sense, and there’s a long awaited book to promote.

  • Noob

    The thing that bothers me about the Zedd fight is the fact people assume he would just transmute her metals. My first question would have to be, “How would he even know what the hell she’s doing?” Unless he’s got uber mind-reading powers, Zedd wouldn’t be aware of her ability. He couldn’t begin to fathom how she was “flying” around. That’s not a situation he’s been in before, and it’s difficult to react to.

    Not to mention the fact that Zedd’s transmutation of Vin’s only ability is about as overpowered as you can get. Why not just turn her into a harmless kitten in the meantime?

  • Enoch

    Am I the only one amused by the fact that both Vin and Jon are bastards?

  • Noob

    @ Enoch –

    It’s been a while since I read Mistborn, but didn’t Vin find out who her father was?

  • AHEM

    @ Noob

    Vin did find out who her father was, but that doesn’t change the fact that she’s illegitimate. Her parents were never married.

  • Andrew

    Love how Vin is making a comeback despite the homerism in the writeup and on the part of the Snow fanboys. Not to mention the suspicious 200 votes in 5 minutes.

  • Shancaldazar


    its very possible to cheat, especially if you use safari as you internet browser. If i wanted i could vote roughly hmm 5 times a minute?

  • damncheaters

    hey suvudu, it is really sick that someone can punch 4 votes at a time! This is not how this contest should be conducted. So it seems that not only did you allow to continue for vin vs zed but now ur going to let it happen for vin vs snow…..

    why don’t we just cede the whole thing now to those who are willing to sit the longest at their comp?


  • shancaldazar


    Unfortunately that’s the problem. We just have to trust that those who know how will have some semblance of honor and not cheat. I think we can all laugh at those who would spend hours each day voting on a poll that makes no difference who wins

  • fantasyfan

    They have taken steps to prevent that. Try voting more than once and you’ll see that it says your vote has already been counted.

  • damncheaters

    @ fantasyfan…..

    you have no idea…..

    trust me. you can. silly rabbit, trix are for kids

  • Gemini

    Really? 500 or so votes in the past, what, ten minutes? …Really? :/

  • Jolorare

    I love how everyone is voting for Vin just because they don’t want Jon to win.

  • Erunion

    Now, I’m really glad that Vin is winning. Really, incredibly glad. She should win.

    However, I am a little bit worried about where these votes are coming from. Now, did a whole bunch of Vin fans just get home from work and start voting?
    Please say yes, because I really want Vin to win honestly.

    Of course, being Vin, she wouldn’t really mind winning in a slightly less than honourable way.

  • TheTrollcrusher

    People complaining about Vin fans cheating… Wheel of Time Facebook page just posted a link to the cagematch. Sooo… it’s not really cheating.

  • John

    Look, no offense to Jon, he’s a great character, but a normal human *cannot* beat a Mistborn with a sword. They’ll just kill you with your own sword.

    Even notwithstanding the fact that Vin toppled the Final Empire, you don’t beat a Mistborn, *any* Mistborn, with a sword and nothing else. That’s not how it works.

    These always seem biased towards the ASOIAF guys, remember Jaime somehow beating Rand in a fight last year?

  • SomeGuy

    No, Vin fans aren’t cheating right now. The WoT fanbase has just arrived though, with terez tweeting (twittering?) and Facebooking it.

  • John

    To further add on to what I was saying, Vin simply would have killed him with a coin to the face, even a simple Coinshot could do it. Coins become lethal projectiles in the hands of Mistborn, and Vin isn’t given to grand, dramatic gestures. She has the opportunity to kill him with a coin? She’s going to take it, she isn’t going to make him fly across the arena and actually get him within striking range of herself.

    This isn’t a fight, it’s a murder.

  • Jaworski

    Here’s how it goes. Vin shows up, draws her daggers, advances towards Jon. Jon draws longclaw and advances. Using the element of surprise (the fact that Jon doesn’t know what allomancy is), Vin pulls longclaw away from his grip using allomancy and flings it into his face, thus killing him. Fight over.

  • Terez wields an absolute army of WoT fans…and those fans are Sanderson fans…so those last like 1000 votes….totally her army of WoT fans voting.

    I am humbled by her powers.

  • Apsalar

    I’m curious where the speculators claim the “Vote as many times as you possibly want” button is. I’ve loaded this page on four different browsers now, and it’s still telling me my vote’s already been counted. So does someone care to explain the multiple vote theory?

  • Manetheren

    Here comes the cavalry. No its not cheating check the WoT Facebook page… the largest one just posted this 🙂

    Yah a Win fo Vin 🙂

  • AHEM

    This is one epic clash. Not really in the actual fight as it would happen (which would last roughly five seconds and end with Jon and Ghost’s bloodied bodies on the floor), but in the numbers. First Vin takes a small lead, then Jon makes a come back and gets a small lead, then Vin takes a somewhat larger lead again, now Vin is wiping the floor with Jon. It isn’t over yet, and its still possible that Jon could take this, but things are definitely looking up.

    Go VIn! Vin for the win! March to the finals against either Quick Ben for the epic showdown or Perrin to make Sanderson’s head explode!

  • trench

    well here comes the first tidal wave of votes from the fandom. Can aSoIaF counter?


  • Ty

    So 2000 votes for vin in the last several hours more than doubling the total… Shenanigans?

  • Manetheren


    No Terez (a person who literally lead thousands of wheel of time fans) tweeted and updated a wheel of time facebook page with the link to this match and saying vote for vin. So Vins gonna win basically.


    I doubt the aSoIaF fanbase will be able to counter this… they already played all their cards with fan sites and fan twitter streams.

  • Erunion

    Oh good, the Vin fanbase isn’t cheating (or at least, not by as much as I feared we were). Looks like a few key links and comments are… Encouraging the WOT/Sanderson fans to vote.

    I really hope Vin wins, and I don’t want it to be through Shenanigans.

  • TheSmilingKnight

    Did Sanderson post something on a blog to rally the troops, or what? This Vin has gotten thousands of votes in a matter of hours with no similar surge in Snow’s support. In any event, you can see by my screen name that I’m biased toward GRRM. Rip her throat out, Ghost!

  • TheSmilingKnight

    Also, I haven’t read “Mistborn”. Does the main character throw warm coins at her enemies to win fights? So it would seem…

  • Finalking1

    GRRM fans, Rally The Watch !!!!! Rally The Watch!!!!

  • fictionnerd

    It’s not so much that she throws them, as it is that she shoots them at incredibly high speeds. Like bullets. The Mistborn magic (Allomancy) is fairly complex, but one of the things it allows her to do is push and pull metal objects. Hence, the reason it would be suicide to wear chain mail and carry a metal sword… Coins are commonly used by Allomancers because they are not valuable, but are very useful. They can be projectile weapons, decoys, and are also used to make the Mistborn ‘fly’. They drop coins and push off of them to propel themselves through the air.

  • Finalking1

    Brandon Sanderson said he would like to see Perrin defeat Jon snow in the finals according to his official blog.

  • Valan

    @Finalking1 Gotta say sorry Brandon! I wanna see Vin vs Quick Ben. That would be epic. Though Quick will have my vote for the win, as for Vin vs Jon Snow… Kick some ass Vin!

  • DH

    Damn. Looks like Jon is in dire need. Let’s get that horn and bring The Wall down on her! 😉

  • LF

    My vote goes for Vin! I love ASOIAF and I think it is one of the greatest book series of all time and I can wait for HBO version, but I also love mistborn, I between Jon Snow and Vin I go with Vin.
    Besides, the guy who sais Vin is all-powerful should read the books 🙂 it’s always good to do that before comenting, right? right

  • …and as I predicted, it’s Vin for the win! thre’s no way Jon can come back from a 4k vote deficit. If the match had taken place after the Game of thrones premier it would have been a whole different ballgame, though.

  • Shadow’sBane

    Finally the WoT fan base has arrived….2/3of wot fan base was not responding in earlier matches .

  • Magnus

    Such a sudden vote surge seems highly fishy.

  • Roberto

    I doubt anyone is cheating for Vin. Dragonmount and Sanderson have been rallying support via twitter and Facebook. They have alot of supporters and great communication. Unlike goodkind and Martin. (communication I mean, Martin has major fans for sure)

  • Shiara

    Good write-up. Still think Vin would wipe the floor with Snow though 😛

  • Selby

    It’s not fishy, it’s social networking. I didn’t even know suvudu existed until a few mins ago when I checked my facebook and dragonmount had two posts up about this. And wheel of time fan page had a post too.

  • Sean Patrick

    Im a WoT and Brandon fan, but Jon Snow is Jon Snow, lord commander of the night watch, he isn’t going to lose to Vin. If anything he deserves to win just because the odds are against him. Nice write up of the match.

  • Bobby

    Dragonmount, the wot fanpage, and Sanderson fan page all recently posted on Facebook and twitter About this. I wouldn’t have voted had they not reminded me a few hours ago. I’m sure a few thousand others are in the same boat as me.

  • Dunno

    I just want to say…Vin could have won without cheating quite that blatantly.

  • Dunno

    To clarify: I don’t care if Sanderson has gone through eight write-ups of the match by now and facebook is humming with power. No one goes up nearly 6,000 votes in half a day. No effing way. Not on a fantasy book site. This is the same crap we saw in the Jaime/Rand match. 30,000 votes. Pff. Right.

    What’s happened here is that in the broader pool of people who’ve been called, a good few of them have known how to vote multiple times.

  • Jaknal

    To all the people who are saying that the vote was rigged,

    If you go on the WoT facebook, you can see that there are over 22k people who have liked it. Not only that there are a few people who probably have said that they would rather have Jon Snow win. I have read ASoIaF; and Jon is my favorite character by far in the whole series; but I still believe that Vin would win, with or without the power of Preservation. It would be a slaughter if she had Preservation’s power though. I’m not sure if she has any Atium on her, but if she did, there is no way that Jon would be able to do anything to counter-act that. It seems a little unfair to put a person who has no supernatural, per-say, power against a regular human. Unless they had some distinct quality, or in the case of comic books, like Batman or Lex Luther who have a massive fortune and have advanced technology, there would be no other possible outcome other than their death.

  • Terez

    By the way, I’m not sure what the vote count was at the moment I first tweeted the match, but it occurred to me to check a few minutes later, at which time it was 3608 to 2534 in Vin’s favor. From that point on her votes increased by about 100 every 5 minutes or so until about 12:30 am my time (6:30 GMT), at which point it was 6819 to 2675. She outpaced Jon at a rate of about 10 to 1 during those three or so hours.

    So yes, it was the nuclear option, but still quite legitimate. I monitored the changing results very closely out of curiosity. The numbers I recorded went like this (though I didn’t keep track of times the first hour):

    9:15 CST
    3608 – 2534
    3664 – 2539
    3708 – 2544
    3828 – 2557
    3908 – 2564
    3967 – 2570
    4033 – 2574
    4099 – 2580
    4171 – 2583

    10:16 CST
    4592 – 2603
    4654 – 2607
    4741 – 2609
    4809 – 2609
    4899 – 2610
    4990 – 2614
    5053 – 2617
    5132 – 2617
    5207 – 2619
    5296 – 2622
    5380 – 2624
    5457 – 2627
    5600 – 2633
    5789 – 2645
    5967 – 2656
    6141 – 2662
    6378 – 2666
    6639 – 2672
    6819 – 2675
    6839 – 2687
    6848 – 2689
    6864 – 2698
    6876 – 2708
    6895 – 2720
    6937 – 2752
    6965 – 2813

    Werthead Tweet

    6991 – 2869
    7002 – 2888
    7015 – 2916
    7022 – 2960

  • Terez

    Oh, that was a Westeros tweet, retweeted by Wert. And the Game of Thrones twitter account already tweeted yesterday – they have over 40,000 followers which explains the surge Jon got yesterday, for those who were crying foul on that one too. Don’t be so quick to get suspicious – social networking is a powerful tool (but GoT’s followers seem less interested than the WoT Facebook people, to be sure).

  • Manetheren


    Well i would argue that barely 25% of the online WoT fanbase is responding.. plenty more can come if we wanted

  • Kah-thurak

    Well at least in this match the fan madness went in favour of the character that was the sensible choice to start with. It will probably get pretty ridiculous in the other semi final though…

  • Shadow’s Bane

    I would tell less than 35% was responding….We was rallying ppl and trying to contact admins of WoT fansites….finally some one responded

  • Brian

    Terez, you are an angel, and you have my undying gratitude for seeing justice done here today. The right person is going to win this battle thanks to you.

  • trench

    aSoIaF is getting a taste of its own medicine for once.

  • Scott

    Mystborn wasn’t nearly as good as ASOIAF, but if we’re really talking about who would win a fight, it’s really no quesiton: Vin. Jon isn’t even the best swordsman in the novels, though Ghost helps.

  • Jymothy

    Dude, Jon Snow deserves to win. I don’t think he will. And I’m not going to cry cheat just because he’s not winning. But he deserves it. This write-up seems totally plausible to me as the official outcome.

  • John

    I disagree. You’ve got to remember that Vin is *not* a character given to flashy displays or unnecessarily elaborate schemes. She’ll take the first opportunity she gets, which is namely sending a coin through Jon’s forehead.

    The write-up was clearly done so both characters would have somewhat of a chance, to make it more interesting, but the reality is that Vin would just shoot a coin out the back of Jon’s head and kill him instantly. She would never do something like impaling him in his own sword, that’s not Vin’s style. She fights dirty and to win.

    Remember, to a Mistborn a coin is a lethal a weapon as a gun. A normal human without a Lurcher (? I forget the exact name) to pull coins to his shield will be killed instantaneously.

  • Too bad

    What we need for the finals is a re-assignment of semis matchup.

    Perrin vs Jon Snow would be amazing for obvious reasons. the characters have insanely similar abilities. Plus the rematch of Wot vs ASoIaF would be sweet.

    And pitting Vin against Quick Ben just makes sense as well from a comparable abilities perspective

    Those matchups need to happen.

  • cesc_entreri

    Wow, I had to think about this one. I love both of these characters.
    Hmmm……I’m going for Vin.

  • Fishsticks

    Jon’s gotten a couple hundred votes in the past 30 seconds or so, lol. Did someone post a link somewhere, or is there a sad fanboy?

  • dpomerico

    @Fishsticks: I’m pretty sure GRRM posted about it on his blog (although I’m having trouble confirming this, as I think his blog is a acting a little wonky right now). That might account for the uptick in votes.

  • AHEM

    @Too Bad

    Those matches still can happen, if they do a consolation match like they did last year, and Vin and Quick Ben both win their respective matches. That would put Vin against Quick Ben for the finals, and allow Jon and Perrin to duke it out for third place in the consolation match. Personally, I really hope that that is what happens.

  • Jeff

    So . . . the only author, other that Robert Jordan, who can defeat GRRM is the *other* Robert Jordan. Nyuck nyuck.

  • TheTrollcrusher

    Who’s this Terez person? Like what’s their twitter? I’m not trying to cause trouble I honestly want to start following whoever this is.

  • Chris

    So, the Jon Snow has started fighting back. We shall see what happens.

  • Peter Ahlstrom

    Terez’s Twitter is @Terez27. She’s a big Theorylander and Malazan fan and wants Quick Ben to beat Perrin.

  • AHEM

    Oh no! Martin has posted about this and Jon Snow is starting to catch up! We might need to rally more troops for Vin. Here’s hoping Sanderson posts about this soon, perhaps another awesome write up like last round. If not, then this just might be a photo finish . . .

    Vin might be the first character that thoroughly kicked the ass of a aSoIaF character before Martin got involved. (Possibly second after Rand, but Rand vs. Jaime was very close all through.) She established a comfortable +4000 vote lead. Now, it’s time to see if the armor of that lead can hold out against Martin bringing his artillery to bear.

    Go Vin!

  • chosen

    Who do you think would win in a fight, Sanderson or Martin?

    Sanderson has youth but Martin has experience and as we all know can be incredibly ruthless.

  • Tinera

    I do love Jon, but Vin is awesome! Sorry Jon, you’re gonna lose to a girl 😀

  • mini_me

    is it just me or jon is doing a comeback?

  • trench

    As more votes keep pouring in for Jon I picture Vin turning to Sazed and saying
    “Were gonna need a bigger boat”

  • Gemini

    To Jon Snow:

    “Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”
    -Dylan Thomas

    Sorry, just read that for a poetry class and it felt appropriate, doubly so since GRRM has a novel called “Dying of the Light.” Good read, by the way. 🙂

  • AHEM

    Things will soon be even, if Jon keeps going at this rate. At his current speed of gain, he’ll tie Vin tonight. Then, it’s a matter of how long he can sustain this pace, and if Sanderson posts another match-up. If Sanderson posts now, however, then it will be the final blow necessary for Vin to win this.

  • Kyle F.

    Mail would be a serious disadvantage on the wall. Would get cold as hell incredibly fast, and freeze them where they stood. Furs would be the way they dressed, and furs have not enough metal for Vin to pull her allomancy thing.

  • Fishsticks

    Even if he came dressed in fur, Vin would Push a coin through his skull and out again before he could move. That’s just the way she fights.

  • Archon

    It’s so awesome that the Sanderson fans could help come out and make sure that the right person won this fight…

    Now if only they had the integrity to do the same in the other semi-finals match…

    Unless you’re seriously going to try to say that’s it’s justified here to see the fanboy defeated but it’s somehow okay that the other fanboy get pushed through… which is certainly not beyond likelyhood…

  • Archon

    @ Chosen

    Have you seen GRRM? I couldn’t imagine a grown man that would lose to that guy in a fight…

  • JAja

    Seems to me that this VIn has a bit of a Superman complex. I’ve never read the story (and from reading the summary I think I’ll pass on this one), but it seems like she can do anything anytime to anyone without effort or time passing; and if she can’t, she’ll do it anyway by just trying harder. It’s kind of like the Nightwatch series that just gets absurd by the end and isn’t even that much fun to read because of the insane power.

    Maybe she’ll just control the iron/nickle core in the center of the planet and send a spike of semi-molten metal up through the lithosphere to impale her enemies. What happens when she walks through an iron field? HA! And why not just camp out in a copper mine or something? If she ever thought of being an entrepreneur she would be the queen of the mining industry. Eat your heart out Francisco d’Anconia.

    This match is not really fair putting Jon and his wolf the size of a pony together in the first place. But Jon isn’t exactly a warg master, he can hardly even control himself much less another person. That part of the fight is just ridiculous.

    How this fight plays out: Charge! She kills Jon with her super magneto ere allomancy powers. Wolf bites her in half. Done. 1.5 seconds pass and both characters are dead.


    Her freaky m.. Allomancy powers are ineffective against valyrian steel which catches her off guard and Jon just cuts her in half before the wolf even pounces. .


    She sees a wolf the size of a pony, wets herself, pleads for mercy. Jon grants it, she stabs him in the back when the wolf goes off hunting.

    However, if Vin really is some kind of freaky love child between Goku and Magneto, she’s invincible and why argue, why even have a plot, she wins game over. However, if she isn’t: well then sorry 2 v 1 gg.

  • Andrew

    here JAja, I’ll summarize your comment for you so people don’t go tl,dr

    “durr I dudn’t actually reed mistburn, buh ah think ah can mahke sum wilde assumptions based awn absurlutely nudding”

    your welcome readers

  • jmorn

    This isn’t really related to the matter at hand, but where should one post suggestions for future character match-ups? I’d pay admission to watch Lord Vetinari vs. Peter Baelish.

  • MJ

    How tiny exactly is Vin? (Since that is her disadvantage according to the description at the top of the page)

    People from Westeros seem to be generally large from what I remember from the books (7+ ft), and even from their perspective Ghost is a huge wolf. If she really is small enough for it to be a disadvantage then the wolf may do her in.

    Shooting coins at it will only make it more angry, and carving at it with some sharpened stone wont do much good either. If Jon would be stupid and bring Longclaw it may even be too big for Vin to actually wield? As again, even in the Song of Ice and Fire universe Longclaw is a big blade.

    Bottomline; Exactly how small is Vin?

  • Som1else

    5 foot,

  • Valan

    @ MJ In the books, Vin’s size is actually used more to her advantage than anything else, she’s incredibly agile and can slip past most attacks. She can also take on entire armies. The only other person that’s left in Cagematch that can do that is Quick Ben.

  • JAja

    @Andrew Thanks for enlightening me on the points I have wrong. Since you failed to do so and your reply is simply an ad hominem abusive fallacy , I’ll assume they stand until corrected.

  • archon


    You get that a lot with that fanbase… most of them aren’t old enough to understand that this isn’t a schoolyard playground and that you actaully have to make valid points to win a debate in the grown up world…

  • MistbornLover

    @ MJ

    With pewter to enhance her strength, she has previously wielded swords larger than the Scottish Claymore in one hand better than many grown men can handle a longsword in both. Jon’s sword would be easy for her as they showed in this write up.

    And true the wolf would be bigger than her, but her coins can penetrate chain mail because they are going so fast. And besides that, newly flaked Obsidian is sharper than many knives.

  • Kelsier

    Vin, while small, can use the metals that she has ingested to do a lot of amazing things. She can increase her strength to the point of being able to wield extremely large weapons, i.e. a koloss sword (koloss are monsters that can reach 12 feet in height), she can also run about as fast, or faster than a horse while pewter dragging. She also has the ability to push and pull all forms of metal, making any metal weapon or armor wielded by Jon useless. She can also push herself up to where she is almost flying, making Ghost’s ability to attack her almost 0. I like Jon and he seems like a real awesome character, but I think he is significantly out matched here.!

  • Spartan034

    Thank you Kelsier, my thoughts exactly.

  • chosen

    I hope Archon is gonna get a trophy for biggest hater for the 2011 suvudu cage match of make believe characters. You have done nothing but belittle and defame anyone who disagree’s with you. For weeks now you have continually berated aSoIaF and WOT fans.

    Do you have anything of value to add, or is this all you have to offer?

  • Nick

    People in ASOIAF people are not 7 ft tall. Gregor Clegane, the Mountain that Rides, was basically the tallest human in the series at about 7 ft tall. Robert Baratheon was somewhere around 6 and a half ft tall and considered pretty damn big. Average height was probly anywhere from 5’9″ to 6’0″ tall.

  • MJ

    Thanks for the good replies to my earlier question. I now see no other outcome but a victory for Vin.

    GRRM has a tendency to let big characters in his series die occasionally. In contrast to most fantasy, characters in his books lose against overwhelming odds. So I guess now its Jon’s turn to hit the bucket ^^

  • archon

    I’m glad to see that chosen has made the finals for the biggest closet fanboy and poster with the most non-valid comebacks…

    Poor chosen had a nerve tweaked by my comments and has never been able to recover…

  • MJ

    @Nick; 8 feet on gregor (ok ok 7.11), his brother Sandor at 7.7. Dont throw random numbers!! Vin can win without it.

  • fictionnerd

    @ JAja and archon

    If you want an intelligent response, make an intelligent comment. Not one that says, “I have no idea what I’m talking about, but this character and everything about this series is really lame, blah, blah blah,” is going to get a good response. MJ’s comment was actually well thought out and politely asked a question. If you really want an answer I’d recommend asking that way.

    In answer, JAja, to the points you brought up in your post, I’ll attempt to explain why you’re wrong. Feel free to disagree, but without having read the books, your opinion doesn’t really count for much. I’m not going to attack Jon Snow’s character or the series, ’cause I haven’t read them… You might try doing the same.

    First, Allomancy is not like Magneto’s power. Vin has to ‘eat’ and then ‘burn’ small pieces of metal in order to fuel her powers. Therefore, the first limit to her power is that when she burns up all her metal, her powers don’t work anymore. The powers tied to pushing and pulling metals are also different than magnetism. She is limited by the basic laws of physics and can only push and pull objects directly to and away from herself.

    Second, the world Vin lives in is very different from Westeros. Regular soldiers stand no chance against her, but there are other warriors in the Mistborn-verse that are much more evenly matched against her and are trained on how to fight Mistborn. Then there are other Mistborn themselves, who have the same powers as Vin. When Vin fights them in the series she wins because she is creative and smart with her powers, not because she’s THAT much more powerful (especially at the beginning).

    Third, AND MAJOR SPOILERS HERE! *cough*shedies*cough* END SPOILERS!!!!

    The flippant way a lot of Mistborn fans view this match is not so much about Vin, but about Jon. He’s just not equipt to fight a Mistborn. It would make the fight more even if the Suvudu write up warned him about her powers, told him to leave the chain mail and sword at home, and gave him a wooden shield to deflect her coins. Then they would need to take away Vin’s Atium (a metal which allows her to effectively see the near future and know what her opponent is going to do) and then they’d have a somewhat more fair fight.

    Honestly, though, the way this write up was written, Jon and his wolf would last less than 10 seconds. Not because Vin is a ‘superman’ character in her own world, but because she WOULD be a superman character in Jon’s.

  • Archon


    Actually, in the books, Khal Drogo was commented about as being 7 feet tall, and Gregor was commented as being closer to 8 feet than 7 feet…

  • Archon


    Are you implying that you can possibly argue the points in my posts? If so, bring it boy… I’ve been waiting for somebody who could actually debate these matches for real instead of the school-yard garbage of just insulting the person they disagree with…

  • fictionnerd


    I was mostly responding to JAja’s post about how Vin has a ‘superman complex’. And you comment about Andrew’s comment being childish. I went back and scanned your comments, and actually agree with your sentiments about voting. It is hard when some people vote with complete disregard to the actual outcome, and then cry foul when someone else does the same. The fact is, people are going to vote for their favorites in most cases, and there is no way to stop it. It is irritating to see people be hypocritical about it, though.
    (BTW, I’m a WOT fan, but I voted for Quick Ben. He’d win his match as easily as Vin would win this one.)

  • Andrew

    @JAja, ahhh now you want to play reasonable? wouldn’t you rather continue to make claims that you know nothing about, since you didn’t read the book?

    Vin’s powers are part of a greater, planned out system by Sanderson, which actually has consistent rules and boundaries. This is called allomancy. All her powers come from ingesting flakes of metal, which giver her different abilities depending on the metal. Once she uses up a metal, she cannot use that power unless she ingests more metal (usually from a liquid vial filled with flakes that she carries around on her person). Different metals burn at different speeds.

    The first three metals are the most important ones for combat: pewter, steel, and iron.

    Pewter: A slow burning metal, pewter gives Vin enhanced speed, strength, agility, and balance. It can be hard to approximate exactly how strong she becomes, since we only ever see her in competition with normal people or other pewter burners. However, we can guess based upon a few instances. When burning pewter, Vin can wield a sword that is around 5 feet 5 inches long (larger than here) and ways hundreds of pounds with ease. She can also survive larges falls and being flung at high speed into large objects while walking away with only bruises. Vin could beat Jon with this ability alone, but she is hardly invincible with it; most of the foes she fights can burn it too.

    Steel: The “pushing” metal. steel allows Vin to “push” off the metals around her. This is determined by the size of the object. If it is bigger than her (say, a skyscraper) she will go flying away from it. If it is smaller than her (a coin), it will instead be pushed away from her. This is where the concept of coin pushing comes into effect; she pushes the coins at high speeds, making them effectively bullets. When used in conjuncture with iron, Vin can effectively fly, pushing and pulling off of metal objects such as rails and windowsills.

    Iron: The opposite of Steel, iron is the pulling metal. If Vin is larger than the object, it is pulled towards her. If the object is larger than her, she gets pulled towards it. think of it as tossing an invisible rope around a metal object. Depending on how it weighs, she will either pull it towards her or be yanked towards it by virtue of its greater weight. physics is wonderful.

    So, as you can see, your ludicrous assertions about vin pulling on the earths core are quite impossible. Vin would not be able to pull anything larger than a car (remember pewter) towards her, unless she also burned drualumin. But we will get to that in a minuto.

    Tin: tin heightens the senses. you can see further, and with greater detail, hear more acutely, feeling great variety of temperature and texture. Used mainly for surveillance, it has been used in combat before by another character, who was able to anticipate strikes by feeling the air currents shift in response to weapon swings.

    Bronze: Allows the user to find anyone burning a metal. Would not be of use to vin in this situation.

    Copper: Used to block emotional allomancy (get to that in a minute) as well as hiding any allomancy that the user is doing from anyone burning bronze. The write up treats this as thought it could be used to block John’s mental manipulations, but I doubt this would work, since he isn’t using allomancy. of course, the write up also flat out fabricated that power for john, so….

    Brass: The “soothing metal”. This is used to repress emotions that the burner doesn’t want the target to feel. Although unncessary in this instance, it can be used for a myriad of purposes, such as repressing feelings of courage, determination, and bravery.

    Zinc: The “rioting metal”. The opposite of brass, this inflames certain emotions, making them stronger. It can be any emotion, whether it be happiness or sadness, joy or despair. Useful in some contexts, but not needed here.

    Those are the basic 8. Now the special two.

    Atium: the “game breaker” metal. The books go to great lengths to ensure that this metal is surpressed or evened out so as to not make things unfair. Basically, it allows the user to see what actions their opponent will take a few moments in the future. This advantage is tremendous, and in most cage match fights the assumption is that vin does not have any, unless the opponent has much more “magicks” than her “(if she advances, you can bet your bottom she will have it).

    Duraluminin: The “steroids metal” this metal vastly increases the powers of vins other metals, pushing her into near god mode when she uses it…the only problem is it is only good for one shot, then whichever metal she burned with duralimin is completely gone. (and less, mistborn fans, I am butchering the spelling.

    None of these make vin a “superman”. If you stab her in a vital area, she will die. She can be wounded, although pewter would alleviate the wound to some extent. So no, JAja, nothing you said was right, and you came off as ignorant. Don’t make presumptions if you know nothing about the book.

  • TheTrollcrusher

    Jon Snow got a lot of votes in the last couple of hours. Wow.

  • ken

    ive got love for jon snow and like his character more but Vin would destroy him

  • Oraymw

    Funny, I’m a big fan of all the characters in the final four, so I have to agree that Quick Ben and Vin should meet in the finals, but I was kinda hoping that Jon Snow would win and that Perrin would win so that we could have Wolfman vs. Wolfman action!!!

  • Andrew

    interesting to note how unprofessional GRRM is…while Brandon Sanderson refrained from doing a write up for this due to, in his words “respect for GRRM and his characters”, it appears mr. martin isn’t willing to do the same, taking a cheap shot at Vin, labeling her as a “another damn magic user”.

    Wow. Incredibly unprofessional and ignorant of the part of Martin.

  • Maagicka

    Erm, I have a few questions regarding the “Predicted Winner” writing. I’ve never read ASoIaF, so when reading this I got fairly confused. I tried using google and what-have-you to try and discern what Jon’s power (or ability.) is, but it’s still rather confusing.

    What exactly happened here?

  • The Jaguar

    *** Spoiler ***

    What’s happening is Jon is using an ability of his to an extent he hasn’t achieved in the books yet, and likely never will. Jon’s younger brother Bran is capable of controlling the minds of animals and seeing through their eyes, that kind of thing. Bran is also starting to be able to link up to humans that way, though very weakly. Jon can just see through his wolf’s eyes.

    *** End Spoiler ***

    So logically it makes sense that in a face to face confrontation Jon would be killed here. But who says that’s what has to happen? And seeing as how Jon doesn’t know anything about Vin prior to the match, why should Vin know anything about Jon? Meaning if Vin came out into the open first / Jon saw her before she saw him, Ghost would kill her before she even knew what was happening. Ghost knows things. There’s no reason Jon would even have to get close to her, and no one hears Ghost until it’s too late.

    It would likely go something like:
    Vin moved stealthily through the moonlit forest. A soft noise behind her alerted her to…
    * * *
    Ghost padded out of the trees to Jon’s side, his muzzle stained red with blood.

    Granted, I haven’t read the Mistborn books, so I couldn’t say if she’s somehow aware of everything around her including those things without metal. But if she’s not, which is what it sounds like. Ghost wins, Jon doesn’t even realize there was a fight, and Perrin is the next person Jon sees.

  • Manetheren

    @ Maagicka

    They basically made up what jon can and cannot do so he would win the write up. But what ever.

  • Manetheren


    If she was burning tin she would have heightened sense many times that of a normal human, which means every single sense. So she probably would hear or see ghost in time. If she wasn’t burning tin then she might not, but who knows.

  • AHEM

    Hmm, looks like Vin has actually increased her lead just slightly in the last hour. It looks like Jon Snow’s rapid catching-up has finally slowed to a halt. If that’s it, if Vin reverses it here, then things look very bad for Jon Snow and very good for Vin.

  • Matt

    @AHEM, It’s great that Vin’s lead has been stable for a bit now, but Jon Snow is still getting votes himself pretty quickly so we’re not out of the woods yet…

  • Colby

    I’m sorry, but this fight doesn’t make sense. Jon’s powers don’t do that (even if they eventually WILL, they aren’t there in the current story), and Vin has every advantage against him. She’s super-strong, can heal super-fast, can PREDICT WHAT MOVES HE WILL MAKE, and most importantly can push/pull metal. Jon is wearing chain mail and using a huge metal sword. Even counting Ghost in, Vin still has the advantage because she can basically fly out of the way and rain coins down at him. Again, sorry, but NO CONTEST.

  • Manetheren

    @ Archon

    Even here people hate you? Do you realize something? People aren’t hating you for making such good points, but because you are being rude and defaming others.

    Next match should be a vote for biggest troll. I nominate archon! who seconds?

  • Archon


  • Spartan034

    I would just like to say for all of those people who feel that Sanderson fans are cheating, I have run an experiment and for each computer you get one vote for each browser you have. After this though, even rebooting your computer wouldn’t let you vote again. To vote again you would have to manually reset you computer’s IP Adress. (Which by the way, I personally do not know how to do just that it can be done.) Doing this every time you want to vote again would be very time consuming and I believe that I talk on behalf of nearly every Sanderson fan that we would rather spend our time rereading the Mistborn Trilogy in preparation of The Alloy of Law which comes out this November than waste our time cheating

    @ Manetheren and Jaguar

    As Manetheren pointed out she has tin, but even without tin Vin grew up moving from group to group of thieves so she already knew how to be alert at ALL TIMES even without tin.

  • Archon

    @ Manetheren

    I would hate me too if I were you… I’m proving you wrong. Funny how you run to others for support when you know you’re fighting a losing battle… just like a school-kid does… And if the “biggest troll” vote falls along the Like/Dislike WoT vote line does, I would fully expect to win that vote… Luckily for me, I’m a grown-up and I don’t really care what a bunch of anonymous cyber incarnations think of my anonymous cyber incarnation… I could always come back on here with a different login and act like a total WoT fanboy who hates Archon and you would think I was the coolest guy ever… It’s really pointless…

  • Matt

    @Spartan034 – Unfortunately, there is a way to cheat the vote (related to why you can vote once per browser). I’m not going to post details because we certainly don’t need more people multi-voting than already are (on both sides, I’m sure).

  • Wolffollower

    Ok, I haven’t read GRRM in a while, but I have to say that Jon shouldn’t stand a chance either. Tin is one of the slowest burning metals in Allomancy, and Vin does have it up in most all delicate situations. Being in an arena/fight of any sort like they state in this would be considered a delicate situation. Ergo, she would hear Ghost coming before he was able to get a hit off. He may get close, almost hit her, but I don’t see him as actually landing the blow, no matter what he knows prior to the battle.

    The other reasons have already been stated, and I don’t want to just beat it in more than it already has been. Sorry Jon, you were one of my favorite characters, but you lose this one.

  • JAja

    @ Andrew

    Thanks mate. I can only imagine what would happen to Vin if she swallowed and burned some silt out of the Hudson River! Go Go Godzilla

    I like the point that you make that she isn’t superman, but she can go into “near god-mode”.

    Do the characters in these books ever have brain damage or organ malfunction from ingesting so many metals? Have they tried other metals? Is there like an allomancy testing center. What happens if you swallow some silver? Mercury? Titanium? Lithium? Plutonium!?! Is there a limit to the number of metals she can burn at the same time? Is there a limit to the number or amount of metal she can consume at one time?

    I also still think that she could call up some molten iron form the core. It’s liquid, she need not call all of it. Especially if she’s pewtering and ironing in god mode. If you tell me that she could save the planet from an ICBM, I put her into superman catagory. And I’m pretty sure you’d argue that she could.

    It’s intersting, but not my style. In the words of a truely great writer “it were not best that we should all think alike; it is difference of opinion that makes horse races.”

  • Matt

    @JAja- The characters don’t have brain/organ damage from ingesting the metals because they “burn” them off to power the allomancy. It is suggested that it certainly would be a bad idea to leave the metals in their stomachs unburned for such reasons. Trying to burn other metals (or even the correct alloy in not the exactly correct ratio of metals) also produces adverse effects.

    There is no limit to the number of metals that can be burned at one time. The only limit to amount that can be consumed is the practical limit (how much metal can she physically swallow at one time).

    As far as stopping an ICBM, I could certainly script some way she could pull it off given the right circumstances, but outside of that it would probably be a little outside of her usual abilities.

  • UseR2006


    She can try to burn any metal but if they are not allomantic metals she will get very sick or even die, and even the allomantic metals can be dangerous if left to sit without being used they would poison the user, hence why they must be burned after consumed.

    There is no limit to the amount of metal she can burn at once (only dependant on what effect it would have) and consuming metal would only be limited by how much you could swallow.

    Vin would not be able to draw metal from the core as there is a definate RANGE on how far she can use her pulls and pushes. if Vin could see metals from that kind of distance she would have found the Lord Rulers Atium Stash instantly.

  • I-zuki

    I have been along time fan of grrm but wow the way he blatantly insulted Brandon pisses me off so much. Im sorry but thats not how you ask your fans for votes by insulting the competition. Ive supported you and told my friends to back off when they have complained about the length of time between books and you go and call my favorite authors characters another damned magic user. I’m sorry but George that’s just not right. Vin is anything but another damned magic user and its insulting to her one of the greatest magic system writers characters talked about like that.

  • John


    Why is it that in the Quick Ben vs. Perrin writeup, the VASTLY stronger character wins with no apparent effort (as he should) but in this writeup, the VASTLY stronger character is given ridiculous handicaps, fights like a moron, and the weaker character is given powers he doesn’t even consciously possess?

    Seriously, what the hell gives?

  • Erunion

    What I love about Sanderson’s magic systems is that they are all heavily tied into real-world physics. Sanderson is a Newton fan. Allomancy doesn’t allow for God-moding, but it does allow for some really cool, really powerful things.
    You have a bunch of questions, so here are a bunch of answers. Burning a metal converts the mass of that metal into energy (E=MC^2, basically), energy which is used in specific ways. You cannot store any of this energy, it is used as soon as you start the conversion process. As such, as long as you burn the metals off, the matter is converted into energy, therefore it isn’t a health risk. However, this is mentioned – characters burn off all their poisonous metals before going to sleep and the like. The energy from burning non-allomantic metals cannot be properly converted, therefore it tends to be lethal. Burning bad metals (poorly mixed, or impure allomantic metals) tends to cause severe headaches and illness. As an allomantic testing center would be near-suicide, tests are only conducted on metals known to be at least partially safe (some of this testing is seen in the second book). She can burn any metal she has ingested at the same time, the systems are independent of each other. She can consume however much metal her stomach can handle. However, as a negligible amount of mass can be converted into an incredible amount of energy, she doesn’t need to ingest that much. However, burning a metal is like using a reactor, there are limits to how much of a specific metal you can burn at one time. Flaring a metal gives a very powerful burst, but is difficult to sustain. Burning Duralumin greatly increases the conversion rate of any other active metals, giving you a much higher amount of energy to work with. However, higher reaction rate = metals being used up faster.
    There are limits to range, and, much like the force of gravity itself, pushing or pulling metals decreases in effectiveness the farther you are away from the target. The earth’s core, or an ICBM flying in low orbit, would be far too far away for an allomancer to affect, even while burning Duralumin (like in Physics, more power = more range).

    Therefore, she could not save the planet from an ICBM, as she would be unable to affect it until it was within 500 or so meters (approx 1500 feet for you Americans). There, she could try to push it away but, unfortunately for poor Vin, Physics doesn’t work that way. The momentum of an ICBM would be far too great, and even if Duralumin flaring Pewter (which would last for about 2 seconds, maybe less) her body would be crushed. The ICBM would then continue on to hit the earth where poor Vin would now be lying, pulverized and, well, dead.
    She would slow down the ICBM though. Maybe buy an extra second or two for poor Sally Rodgers to close the door on her nuclear shelter. Save a few lives.

    With Jon though. Well, if he’s wearing chainmail (for example, a belt buckle made of a metal substance would be just as bad, really) she would be able to Push him with steel while pushing on something metallic behind her and flaring pewter to keep herself from being crushed between the two forces. This would send Jon flying. Probably, he would end up dead with a broken neck/back/skull. If she used Duralumin (which would increase the power of her Pewter enough to prevent the increased force from her pushes from crushing her) the g-force would likely kill Jon before he even hit the target. If Vin was pushing on, say, a button or a belt-buckle, said item would likely be pushed through poor Jon’s body (objects in motion have a tendency to remain in motion, therefore Jon, who’s not moving, would not accelerate fast enough for his button/buckle, therefore it would go through his body with the amount of force put into it).
    If Vin used a coin (or any small piece of metal) from a distance, it would (without Duralumin) be like being hit by a bullet. With Duralumin it would be like being hit by a Barrett 50. Cal.

    Further advantage of Pewter is that it increases all physical abilities as well as your bodies healing and the ability of your cells to hold together. Therefore Ghost’s bite would have to be instantly lethal (ripped throat out), which would simply not happen as Vin would either
    A: Be airborne (put a piece of metal on the ground, Push on it with steel and you are now hovering)
    or B: Burning her Tin (which is something she only doesn’t do when she’s sleeping or flaring Duralumin) which increases all physical sense, including hearing, sight, smell/etc. Ghost would be noticed, no matter how Ghostly.

    Vin is not a superman character, but Jon (as much as I love him, he really is a great character) is way out of his league.
    Incidentally, although I love WOT and have never read anything with Quick Ben, I am not voting on that match. There is only one, slim chance of Perrin winning over Quick Ben, so I will not either A: Vote against a character I love or B: Vote for a character with less than 25% chance of survival (Perrin’s is at about 5%-10%).

  • Erunion

    Sorry for double post:

    Don’t knock GRRM. Take it easy guys! His comment isn’t dickish or insulting, it’s humorous. Funny. Flippant.
    GRRM’s characters have lost twice already to a Magic User, so he is jokingly commenting “Not another damned magic user!”
    This is not insulting Brandon, Vin, or anyone else (except maybe Suvudu, who set up this match). This is GRRM joking around.

  • Gundy

    @ I-zuki

    I agree. When I saw Mr. Martin’s call to action, I was taken aback. Apparently, he doesn’t even know who Vin is, and didn’t even deign to look her up on Wikipedia or something before belittling her. What a self-important snob! If he cares enough about this tournament to post the link on his blog, he should at least find out who his character’s up against first.

    Show some class, Mr. Martin. Guess that miniseries has gone to your head.

  • Terez

    I also didn’t find GRRM’s comment to be insulting at all. It was just his way of saying that the odds are stacked against his characters in Cage Match because they don’t use magic really (aside from Jon’s warg thing).

  • Steve

    Gundy, I disagree. Just creates a character that is overpowered, doesn’t mean that that character should win. Any Joe Smo could make a character who can destroy the entire universe with a single thought, but that doesn’t mean that that character should win this. Being overpowered is an excuse.

    The character that is best written should win and GRRM will defeat any other Sci-FI/Fantasy author when it comes to that.

  • LF

    I wouldn’t consider Vin all-powerful at all, I mean (SPOILER), in the first book Kelsier actually died to save her (well, her and some people who were in their way to be executed), then she almost died against the emperor, and then if you have read the ending of the third book you see she is not all powerful at all. (END of SPOILER) what happens is that if you compare her to a “normal” guy (AKA: jon) she is quite powerful indeed, but in her world she is a chosen one, yeah, but she actually is not the most powerful person.
    Also, the way that Sanderson creates and portraits his characters is as awesome as the way GRR Martin does.They have the same style of gray characters instead of making a black and white world, and they play a lot with ulterior motives.

  • Stan


    Pewter is the fastest burning of all the metals.

  • Stan


    Pewter is the fastest burning of all the metals.

  • KingMudkip


    No, that’s atium you’re thinking of.

  • Etranger

    Barring unusual circumstances Vin would win. Her magic makes her more powerful than anybody in GRRM’s low-magic setting.

    With regard to GRRM “complaining” that all his characters lost/lose to magic users, I can see no insult or disrespect there.

  • James

    GRRM is clearly not being “disrespectful” to Sanderson or Vin. He’s just making a joke about being beaten by Rand al’Thor last time.

    Of course, everyone already knows this: the Sanderson fans are just feigning outrage in the hopes that undecided voters will say “GRRM, that asshole!” without actually reading the thing.

  • Laken

    I don’t see size being a significant disadvantage here since her opponent really has no significantly developed supernatural skills at this point. Considering the size of some of her previous enemies only being an advantage when they were of semi-equal power in the first place. Knowing the amount of metal Jon would surely be wearing he wouldn’t be even half as much of a problem as the wolf and even then it would only need a coinshot backed by duraluminin driven straight into its brain to finish it. End result- Vin wins.

  • Luci

    I’ve the SoIaF books and I like John as one of the better characters. I have not read the Mistborn books, but I have heard good things about them.

    I mostly have a point of curiosity, to do with the write up and Archon’s long comment. It was potentially answered by Erunion, but I would just like to clarify.

    In the write up Vin yanks John towards her. From what I’ve read, stealing the sword would be doable (though possibly mostly through surprise). However my issue is that while not huge, John is not small, Vin has it listed as a disadvantage, if the pull and push is based on physics would she not be unable to pull someone who weighs more than her like that? Wouldn’t she just pull herself at him (not that flying sword woman to chest would be much less deadly :P) The chainmail itself wouldn’t weigh more, but I’m assuming what the metal is attached to isn’t discounted?

    Erunion’s comment (with mention of using an anchor to push him) makes me think she couldn’t pull him like that.

    On the other hand Archon says that she would be able to pull/push a car because of pewter, and even heavier things because of duralumin. Does pewter also increase her weight? Does duralumin either increase that effect as it does others, or allow her to ignore the physics laws?
    Or is it just a case of Archon forgetting to mention she’d need an anchor to do the heavier things? It sort of implies she can do the car without it, but he doesn’t mention anchoring anywhere in that comment, so it could just be something omitted.

    *a small spoiler for SoIaF*
    I don’t see John winning this one. I don’t imagine he’d be useless (and would probably go with the wolf tactic of splitting up and trying to outflank), but from what I’ve heard and read Vin would win. Ghost is great, but far from invicible or omnipotent. After all, he does get downed pretty thoroughly by a bird of prey.

  • Tsiar

    aSoIaF is my favourite modern fantasy series (with chances to be THE best series overall, if the last three volumes will be as good as first three – currently I still prefer Amber; btw. I would really love to see Corwin in the Cage Match some day!) and I never read a single Sanderson book, but come on – Jon Snow should have lost every single match he fought in. That’s one of Martin’s series strengths: the characters are not superpowerful, they are regular humans. Brilliant thing in literature and an incredible disadvantage in the Cage Matches.
    So I voted for Vin. And I really encouraged everyone to do the same.

  • Matt

    @Luci – Vin could successfully pull something significantly heavier than her only if she had something behind her she could also pull (or something else in front that she could push). The pewter doesn’t break the physics, it just would allow her to pull/push the heavier things without pulling herself apart or crushing herself. It would also make her stronger at planting her feet and resisting moving herself, so it would slightly increase her pulling strength itself.

  • irriadin

    I’m honestly (pleasantly) surprised at all the support for Vin. I had no idea Mistborn was so well liked. Holding Jon Snow at bay, even if it’s only temporary, is no small feat!

  • Gary

    Vin would absolutely win this battle. With her ability to burn pewter for strength and tin to heighten her senses I dont see how any mundane warrior would stand against her.

  • Raven Stromdans

    It seems to me these contests are NOT intended to be realistic (especially given the source material for the characters), but a popularity contest in truth. I’ve never read the Mistborn books and I am a fan of SoIaF, so I voted for Jon Snow…not because I was certain that he’d win the battle, but rather because in real life I would have been cheering for him.

  • Chris

    @irriadin: It isn’t so much Mistborn as it is the WoT, Mistborn obviously has plenty of fans on its own, but a large number of vins votes, including most of those she got when she pulled ahead by a huge margin, was the result of the WoT fanbase being prodded into action, though of course I cannot say how many were fans of both that only happened to check on the WoT facebook page/twitter channel. You can thank Terez for that.

  • Jaworski

    Alright here’s something that I think a lot of people overlook. This cage match isn’t about who is the most likable character, it’s not about who is the best written character, it’s not about who is the most popular character, it’s about who WOULD WIN in a CAGE MATCH (that’s where we get the title from!) The point is that having characters like Jon Snow that are very well-written at this point doesn’t matter, what matters is their battle skills and fighting capabilities. In the column underneath Jon Snow and Vin’s pictures it doesn’t describe their character traits or arcs and what it’s like to see through their POV… hell no, it lists what they could do in a hypothetical battle. I’m tired of ASoIaF fans getting up in arms when another character can clearly defeat them. Right now what I’m seeing a lot of them complain Vin is too powerful.

    Are you kidding me? Oh give me a fuckin’ break. Fantasy thrives off characters who are powerful. Excuse me for bringing this up, but the definition of fantasy fiction is: “Fantasy is a genre of fiction that uses magic and other supernatural phenomena as a primary element of plot, theme, or setting.” Are powerful characters forbidden? Why is it so awful all of a sudden that Vin has magic powers? Why is it a bad thing that Gandalf has magic powers that makes him much more powerful than Aragorn? Magic and characters having magic or some form of it are essential to the book being actually fantasy and not just medieval fiction, even ASoIaF. Sure, the magic isn’t in the forefront, but in the grand scheme of Suvudu Cage Match, Jon is just a man with a sword and a wolf.

    So just to summarize for those of you who didn’t want to read this entire thing: Magic isn’t the problem that ASoIaF fanboys are complaining about. The match isn’t comparing writing styles or character depth, it’s fighting capabilities. Jon Snow is a boy with a sword, Vin is a girl with Magneto’s powers. Even if Jon Snow pulls off a win, there’s really no contest as to who would really win this fight.

  • @Jaworski:

    You are wrong on one very big point.

    This is very much a popularity contest, whether like it or not. You want people to vote in the spirit of a cage match, but the reality is that people are going vote for their favorites.

  • Mjoedvitnir


    in this case bringing any ASoIaF character would be completely useless as all of them would never have any chance against any maincharacter of most of the other fantasy series.

    and im pretty sure that everyone knows that jon wouldnt stand a chance, but this is a frakking fun match, its not supposed to really figure out what fantasy character would be the strongest. (which is, in my opinion, impossible.)

  • Luci

    Ah cool, thanks 🙂
    And yeah that was what I meant by having something to anchor her (the missus has read them and mentioned the concept to me a little before, which is where the term came from)

    Nice to know I understood it right.
    I shall have to read the Mistborn series, I’ve heard good thing and the magic system is awesome 😀
    I was really confused when that happened, I thought maybe another book had come out that I hadn’t heard of or something 😛

  • Grigus

    Well I am a huge aSoIaF fan and of the Jon Snow character but to view this match in the way they are asking then I had to vote for Vin. She is obviosly more deadly even with Jon having powers for the match that he doesn’t truly possess in the book. But thats the joy of aSoIaF its characters are for the most part down to earth normal people doing what needs to be done, not super powered killing machines doing whatever it is that they do.

    But even though Jon probably will and should loss the match I think I will probably still win because the write up for Vin has peeked my interest and I now have a new series of books to read. And even though I love aSoIaF for its low fantasy and realism I still enjoy the guilt pleasures of super powered heros blasting thier way though unbeatable hordes sometimes.

  • seth

    Logen nine fingers, really? Has any one read the first law series? Logan is a beast, I don’t think so Vin.

  • Stan


    My bad you are of course correct. What I ment to say was it was the fastest of the basic elements. Far from being a “slow burning” metal.

  • Matt

    I would have liked to see Thomas Covenant verse Vin, because we all know what Covenant does to young woman… naughty naughty

  • Nihil

    Sorry Jon, but you are no match for Vin, even with Ghost. Yes, she has supernatural abilities, but besides that, she is streetwise, can fight dirty, and has lived through as much crap as you, if not more. If Daenerys took your place, I would vote for her instead of Vin, since she is a born leader with a vast army and three dragon hatchlings – and dragonflame can cause serious harm to an allomancer. Tyrion would use his wits, and he could even talk her out from her allomancer cloack. But Jon…
    Besides, I am a little bit bored with seeing an ASoIaF and a WoT character in the final round. It would be quite refreshing, if characters from other series had the chance.

  • John

    @Seth-In Mistborn, Vin scores kills on magic users with near-godlike power, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss her.

    Honestly, I really don’t get how the writeup for this is anything but a) Vin Pushing herself into the air so as to be *totally immune* to attack from Jon/Ghost and b) sending a coin through Jon’s face at incredible speeds.

    In the writeup, Vin acts COMPLETELY out of character; doing something like flying someone across an arena to impale them on their sword is a grandiose and elaborate gesture that Vin would never do. Vin fights to win, she fights practical and dirty, not like that.

    Essentially, what it comes down to is that Vin is not represented at acting anywhere near the full capabilities of a normal Mistborn in this writeup.

    A MIstborn NEVER enters the battlefield without a few things. Those things are:
    A) A full supply of metals to burn
    B) Coins
    C) Atium

    Atium alone would be enough to let Vin COMPLETELY wipe the floor with any normal human (she knows where every one of your attacks is going to go, think of it as a normal joe vs. Neo in the Matrix) but when you combine that with coins flying at bullet-level velocities it is utterly preposterous that a normal human could stand a chance against her.

    Even if she was impaled with a sword or gutted, flaring pewter would STILL give her the strength to kill Jon while she was dying of a mortal wound.

    The simple fact is that Vin is acting under a severe handicap in this writeup; she is not utilizing ANYWHERE near the full range of her considerable abilities.

    I reiterate that Vin, as represented in the Mistborn trilogy, would simply Push off the ground to avoid being attacked and kill both Jon and Ghost with coins. She DOES NOT do grandiose crap like stealing a sword and making her opponent fly across the arena onto it. That is NOT Vin.

    Even if she’s somehow engaged on the ground, atium and pewter still give her more than enough ability to rip apart Ghost and Jon with her bare hands. There are literally dozens of ways Vin could win this matchup without even breaking a sweat.

  • I-zuki

    Alright after comments that grrm didn’t mean any disrespect i reread his post and ok i over reacted by being late hour and other peoples comments about what he had said. So thanks for making me relook at that i would hate to dislike an author who i have followed for years for misreading a comment he posted. Although personally Ive been voting as on who i actually think would win in every match and it really would be cool to see a cage match with out favoritism playing such a large had in victors but that’s never going to happen.

  • Kevin

    Vin is one of my favourite all time characters and there’s no ‘realistic’ (yes, yes, this is fantasy) way she could possibly loose from a swordsman and his wolf. Even one as likeable as Snow.

    Even though I’m a WoT fan I voted for Quick Ben in the other match. There are 3 reasons for that:
    1. There is no way Perrin would win from an all powerful sorcerer.
    2. I want to see a Perrin vs Jon Snow battle in the losers bracket. Wolf warrior vs Wolf warrior. It would be the ultimate WoT vs ASoIaF showdown, because they are evenly matched.
    3. I want to see a Rand vs Quick Ben battle of champions. Just as a kick in the shins for all the \magic is overpowered and boring!\ crowd.

  • mini_me


  • AHEM

    This match has really come down to the wire . . . I’m breathless with anticipation. I actually lost sleep over this match.


  • archon

    @ mini_me

    It’s certainly an extremely impressive rally… but it’s not going to qualify as a comeback becasue Snow is still going to fall short… Clearly the troops have mustered, but they seem to have tapered off and they are still over 600+votes short with 2 hours to go… Snow fans should take heart though… the vote was WAY closer than the fight would ever have been…

  • jrh1524

    Where are all these 6k+ Snow votes in the last 24 hours coming from? Seems fishy

  • Cruxist

    I’ve rallied as many troops for Jon Snow as possible. This battle really tears at me, my favorite book series or my favorite Author? I actually voted for both, once on my cell phone and once on my computer.

    No matter what the outcome, both fanbases came out in droves and should be incredibly proud of how close this battle is. I honestly doubt the finals will be this exciting, so no matter who wins the actual final match, whoever wins this battle is my champion.

  • Ty

    I know i said something earlier, but from what I have heard both authors and many fan sites are pumping out support for their character so i believe this voting is completely fair

  • Brian

    Look at the difference between this match and QB vs Perrin and see the difference between ASOIAF and WOT fans. Most WOT fans won’t vote for Perrin vs. QB because realistically there is no way he can win. ASOIAF fans don’t care that there is no way their character can beat an exceptionally skilled magic user (it’s more complicated than that), they just want their guy to win. It’s about respect for the genre. WoT fans have it, and ASOIAF fans generally don’t. They like ASOIAF specifically for it’s lack of fantasy, and think the rest of the genre is a joke without having ever really given it a chance. This is not the case with all of them, but the poll results seem to indicate that it is at least a very strong majority. That said I love ASOIAF. It’s a wonderful series. I just don’t like the contempt I hear from most of it’s fans about the genre.

  • trench

    This is like watching the tide rise, there is just no stoping it.

  • John

    @Brian- I do have to agree to an extent; WoT is my favorite fantasy series, and I voted for QB because there is absolutely no way Perrin could beat him in a fight, which is what this is supposed to be.

    I understand that people will vote for their favorite series, but what bothers me is that the official writeup itself represents Vin so poorly (severely out-of-character actions, denied access to full power, etc). It’s bothersome to see the “official” standpoint siding with the clearly underpowered character here where in Perrin’s case they made the right call and his writeup has him getting stomped on, hard, as he should be.

  • riggor

    Well honestly I always thought the good folks at Suvudu were a bit against WOT in general. But what the hay, WOT has dominated all until today, (well not Paul, 9 vote margin there) so they may have a bit of a grudge.

  • Matt

    500 vote difference, 1 hour to go… this is getting intense.

  • archon


  • Milamber

    How? How in the world could Jon Snow beat Vin, even on her worst day? Have the Suvudu people even read the Mistborn series? A decent Coinshot or Pewterarm would destroy Jon and Ghost, a full Mistborn wouldn’t even be close to a fair fight.

  • Dunno

    Refresh the page a couple times and tell me there’s no cheating going on.

    Vin is going up by 5 votes every refresh, Snow by at least 4.


  • Matt

    @Dunno – At least that means the cheating is just about even both ways?

  • Dunno

    Oh yeah, they’re both doing it, same as the Jaime/Rand match. I’m just saying, all these people chattering about “rallying the fans” and “it’s all because of Brandon’s write-up or GRRM’s blog post…”

    Yeah, it is. Because people who know how to cheat read the things. There are not 20,000 people coming to vote on a fantasy forum. There are maybe 9,000, tops, and a bunch of cheaters. The only reason the Vin crew is winning is because it got a head start with that 4k jump the other day, and GRRM left it too long before hitting back.

  • Fishsticks

    Vin wins.

    Suck it.

  • GRRMFanboysSu@&

    Vin wins and all the GRRMFanboys and stick it!!

  • Jlingo

    All the GRRMFanboys can now go and cry on their Jon Snow posters hanging over there bed. You lost!!!!

  • MJ

    Yes Vin wins, but what kind of a loser attitude @Fishsticks and GRRMFanboysSu@&


    Vin fanboys lol

  • Jabber

    All you heard from the ASOIAF Fanboys was this is a “popularity” contest. Well I guess Vin is more “popular” than Jon Snow! Ahaaaaa, ahaaaaaa, ahaaaaaa!!

  • AHEM

    YEEEEAAAAH! It is done!

    I couldn’t be happier with the result of this match. It was an intense match that went back and forth, and Jon put up one heck of a fight, nearly coming back from Vin’s enormous +4000 vote lead. However, in the end, it is Vin who triumphed.

    This is almost indescribably good. Vin has just proved that aSoIaF characters are mortal in this cage match, and though she has emerged bruised and only barely victorious by a margin a few hundred votes, she has shown that you don’t need to be Rand al’Thor to take down an aSoIaF character, that logic and interesting combinations of power and high quality of literature will trump raw popularity, and ensured that this year’s cage match will not go down to a boring contest between best-selling series. Everyone thought at the start that it was going to be Jon Snow vs. Perrin Aybara in the finals for sure, but Vin has just interrupted that. Now, as the slayer of the fan favorite to win, and as an excellent character with an interesting set of powers and more than a little cunning, Vin will be marching all the way to the finals.

    I haven’t seen a cage match up this intense since last year’s championship, and it’s gotten almost as many votes. It was an intense and suspenseful semifinal in which the logical victor but popularity underdog took down the predicted winner and subverted everyone’s expectations, and most importantly, it was insanely fun (and nerve-racking) to follow.

    Score one for Vin, logic, awesome magic systems, and happy endings!

  • Katja

    Awwww poor Jon. Oh well, at least the big ad advertising ADwD takes most of the sting out of it… 🙂

  • VinWin

    “Score one for Vin, logic, awesome magic systems, and happy endings!” Well said my friend….

  • Milamber

    Hmmm, yeah, Vin won. She SHOULD have won, there’s no question. Jon Snow and Ghost wouldn’t have a chance in hell against her. But, I don’t see any reason to rub anyone’s nose in it.

  • AHEM

    All right, I admit it . . . I’m a fanboy too, a total Vin fanboy. She’s my absolute female character in any form of fiction, and quite possibly my ultimate favorite of all characters PERIOD, I go crazy over her sheer awesomeness and I love her to pieces, and I’ve voted for her in all four of her matches so far. I probably treat these matches way more seriously than they should be and disdain others who don’t. However, I remain logical in my fanboyism and haven’t ever voted for her against a character who she couldn’t plausibly defeat. I’ll probably vote for her even if she faces off against Quick Ben, but not until I find a way that I’m satisfied with that she could actually beat him in a fight.

    Yes, I know its immature to go saying, “GRRM fanboys, eat your hearts out! YOU LOSE, LOL”, but really, some of us can’t help it, and I can’t blame others for doing that. Though I enjoyed the aSoIaF series, a large portion of the fanbase are some of the most incorrigible prigs that I’ve ever encountered on the internet, and having one of my favorite characters knock them down in this manner is awesome to the one millionth power. Not out of disrespect to Jon Snow–he’s actually one of the best characters in aSoIaF–but it really is more fitting and epic that it turned out this way.

    To the finals! Rational Vin fanboyism for the win! GO VIN!

  • VinWin

    So let’s see – Vin has a biased/poor write-up against a character who is given powers he does not even have, supported by rabid illogical Twilight girl like Fanboys, a rude thrashing from GRRM himself and she still comes out victorious. What an amazing character!

  • Terez

    @Brian – In defense of the ASOIAF fans, this set-up (magic vs melee) doesn’t favor any of their characters.

    Go Vin!

  • mini_me

    you have t admit that jon comeback was amazing – from 4500 vote diffrence to less than a 1000 in 24 hours

  • In my own scenario, Ghost would have vanished like he typically does and flanked Vin when she wasn’t ready for the surprise assault. Game over.

  • John Hodgman (with half a million followers) tweeted in support of Jon in the last 30-odd minutes. A lot of RTing in support of Jon, in fact, around then, and it seemed to me that there was a marked increase of the Jon Snow votes, as one would expect. Earlier today, as well, the GameOfThrone Facebook (80,000+ followers) noted it, and had a hundred-odd likes.

    I won’t say some overzealous people weren’t cheating, but I’m comfortable with saying the majority of the Jon Snow votes were legitimate. Where Vin’s supporters were able to dig down and keep pace (and then exceed it), I don’t know, but I imagine there was alot of rallying cries on Facebook, Dragonmount, etc., as there has been for the last couple of days I guess.

  • This DEFINATLY wasn’t a fair write up, I started re-reading the Mistborn series on Tuesday night and I read today the part where she kicks arse with that team of 8 assasins, and not just assasins but 7 Mistings (Thugs, Lurchers, Coinshots and a Smoker) and a full MISTBORN.

    Also I’m sorry but in this write-up Jon Snow has to have help from his wolf?? I still think Vin would win (in reality not just in popularity) and surely if Jon can have Ghost, Vin could have had OreSeur/TenSoon (I would have suggested Elend but lets face it they really would complain about over-poweredness there!)

    Also presumably all magic systems work in these cage matches then she could have created a copper cloud to sheild her mind from Jon warging?

    Now I will admit that I’ve only read Mistborn, but from what I’ve read of Jon Snow (including from his fans) there is no chance that he could have actually beat her.

    And the main reason is one word:


  • John

    And the rightful character wins despite a ridiculous handicap and absurd out-of-character actions in her writeup!

    Good to see!

  • Milamber

    @Saxster I MY scenario Vin would have burned went to the air, like she usually does in ALL the Mistborn books. Then, she would have taken the rest of her coins and filled Jon full of 1″ holes. Ghost would have went nuts with his master dead, jumping up in the air trying to get her, but since he can’t jump 40′ up, Vin would have killed it too. All that without even using 1/10th of her powers. It would be like a swordsman going up against a person with jetpack and a machine gun.

    Oh, you say he’d just run over and pickup the coin? You try picking up something that’s only 1″ in size but weighs over 100lbs, that is if you can even find something like that in all that chaos. Vin destroyed whole armies near the end of her series, one skilled kid with a wolf is nothing.

  • Jaknal

    @Saxster: Even if Ghost were to go off and try to flank Vin, all she’d have to do is burn Tin and that would negate him trying to rush up from the side.

    @Elio: I like you go about trying to not say that the people who voted for Vin cheated, and in the same stroke, say that the people who voted for Jon didn’t. You have people on both sides that would try and bump up the votes for the person that they wanted to win. In an online poll like this, it’s going to happen either way.

    Like Laura said, all Vin would have to do is burn Atium and it would have been over from the start. There is no way that he’d have any chance in winning against her if she did that. She’d just have to run up on him and stab him in the neck right where he was going to be. Simple as that. This write-up completely took Vin out of character.

  • AHEM


    Not only that, but Vin also won despite GRRM rallying his fans, and Sanderson not doing a write up like he did last round. Before this match, I was thinking, “Okay, if GRRM doesn’t get involved and Sanderson does a write up, Vin should win this, but if GRRM calls attention to this on his blog or makes a write up, Vin’s unfortunately toast.” However, it turns out that even with GRRM rallying support for Jon and Vin getting no such equivalent for her author, she still pulled out a narrow victory. Imagine what would have happened if Sanderson had done a write-up and GRRM hadn’t gotten involved in time to even out Vin’s huge lead. It would have been a complete stomp.

    If anything, though, I’m glad it happened this way. Jon fought to his last breath down to the final hours and made it very very close (49% vs. 51%, after all), keeping suspense in the game until the end. If anything, it makes Vin’s victory all the more poignant.

  • John

    @Saxster-As pointed out, Ghost cannot “simply vanish”; tin enhances Mistborn sense to incredible amounts, you CANNOT sneak up on a Mistborn burning tin.

    Regardless, it’s a moot point, because Vin CAN FLY. She can stay a hundred feet off the ground where Jon CAN NEVER TOUCH HER and kill him with coins effortlessly.

    The fact that she didn’t, and instead pulled a big, stupid, grandiose gesture shows how out-of-character she was in this writeup. Vin was raised on the streets as an urchin, scrabbling to survive day-to-day. She fights to WIN.

    And that’s exactly what she DIDN”T do in this write-up. Jon used powers he doesn’t even really possess while Vin was limited from utilizing her full abilities or acting in a manner befitting her character because someone wanted Jon Snow to have a fighting chance.

    I don’t want to point fingers, but the whole thing reeks of bias towards the ASOIAF character, as when you examine the other “powerful wizard VS normal human with wolf powers” writeup (Quick Ben vs. Perrin) the powerful wizard mops the floor with the normal human with wolf allies (as he should!)

    So why is it that in this writeup the scenario is twisted to favor Jon in every possible category? Vin doesn’t use atium, which every Mistborn has, Jon uses powers he doesn’t have, Vin doesn’t FLY and kill Jon with coins from the air; why?

    The writeup was twisted severely in Jon’s favor, despite this supposedly being a pure, straight-up fight and not a popularity contest. Sure, there’s always an outside chance he could win, but the fact remains that the overwhelming advantage (flight, magically enhanced strength, ability to see the immediate future!, and bullet equivalents) lies with Vin, and the writeup should have reflected this.

    It didn’t, and I think that smacks of a bias on the writer’s part, which is a shame, because they managed to be nicely objective in the case of powerful magic user VS. normal human with wolf allies in Perrin’s case.

  • Table Chair

    Looking over the generall tone of the comments i don’t find any particular fanbase posting in these matches very attractive. Everyone chooses to vote in whatever way they like (as it should be). Most of the argumantative comments however were more off-putting than convincing. Reading the comments made this feel a lot like political campaigns. To me this little game would have been much more enjoyable if i had not scrolled past the actual poll and not read any of the comments.
    People are insulting authors and fanbases instead of taking this as a way to learn about new reading material in a fun way.

  • @Jaknal,

    I’m not sure I follow your meaning. I am rather plugged in to the ASoIaF side of things, much as Terez is plugged into the WoT/Sanderson side of things. I can tell you exactly the moment that Hodgman tweeted (because, uh, I was the one who asked him to; for that matter, I’m the one who suggested GameOfThrone’s FB post, which did a lot to eat into that big lead), but I have no idea when Terez or Sanderson or someone else tweeted.

    So … I can again say that I’m comfortable saying most of those votes for Jon Snow in the last hour were a legitimate increase in voting rate based on the effects of social networking. I can’t say that with confidence about the Vin votes keeping pace and even surpassing it, because I have no idea, but as I noted, I imagine people were canvassing for votes in a frenzy too.

    On the whole, if there was cheating, it was not as rampant as in the Jaime-Rand contest (on BOTH sides), which is good.

  • Fish

    go go bots

  • Som1else

    So I’m super glad that Vin won but I have to say that following this poll for the last few days has been super exciting. And even though this write up was really out of her character it made me interested in aSoFaI and will probably check in to it some more over this weekend.

  • VinWin

    You are exactly right. I thought with GRRM rallying the masses that Vin was in real trouble but she held on! So awesome! I hope Sanderson does a rally call for the finale. I would not mind seeing Vin take the whole thing.

  • AHEM


    He probably will, provided that it is Quick Ben that Vin faces and not Perrin. Since he’s finishing the WoT series, he’d probably be too torn in a Vin vs. Perrin match to take a side.

  • Tony

    I am not what you would call a “GRRM” fanboy, but after reading both Mistborn and A Song of Ice And Fire, I can say without a doubt that ASoIAF is the better series. Things just happen to conveniently in Mistborn. It’s a good tale, to be sure, but things fall into place too neatly for my liking.

    That said, Vin would kick Jon’s ass. HARD. I love Jon to death, but Vin’s allomancer skills are extremely effective against a solder, and that’s what Jon is.

    Also, Jon’s ability to slip into Vin’s mind is partially justified from the books. At one point Bran (another warg, although much more powerful than Jon) slips into Hodor’s mind (granted Hodor’s mind isn’t nearly as complex as Vin’s), but the ability to slip into a person’s mind is there. Jon’s use of this ability is very sketchy, but it is very remotely possible.

  • @Jaknal,

    Think you’ve misunderstood me. Being hooked into the ASoIaF community and social web, I can say at first hand that I saw the various notable tweets and efforts in the last hour or so that likely account for the increased rate of voting near the end. Not being hooked into the WoT/Sanderson community, I can’t speak as to whether similar efforts happened, but you’ll note that I imagined that they did.

    On the whole, if there was cheating on either side, I don’t think it was particularly significant, unlike Jaime vs. Rand which just got ridiculous. That’s an improvement

  • AngryPerson

    I just wanted to post to say that this whole “cagematch” is stupid. I have read most of these books so I am not biased towards any character, but honestly, John Snow should now have won a single match. Everyone who has voted for him once has serious mental issues if they think he could have actually defeated any of the people he did.

    Lets see:
    John Snow vs. a guy with a gun
    John Snow vs. the strongest and greatest folklore European warrior ever
    John Snow vs. someone who can literally reshape the world to his liking

    Anyone who voted for John Snow on any of these matchups is either a zombie or mentally retarded

  • Tinera

    *has apparently died and become a zombie*

    I voted for JON Snow on all of those occations. Why? Because he’s the character I know, or the character I like best. You vote for the ones you like. I vote for purely selfish reasons. I want my favourite characters to go on so I can read about them the next match-up”. I enjoy it much more if I actually know something about the characters. I cannot be bothered to read a series of books so that I can base it on “how powerful that person is”, so that the voting can be fair.

    I also voted for Vin in all of her matches, for the same reasons. And I voted for her now. Why? Because I want her to go on, not Jon. The fact that this is the first fight I know much about the characters and that I know Vin would wipe the floor with him is not really that important to me.

  • TL

    Well, well, well. I was going to say how the mighty have fallen but Jon Snow is not that mighty is he?

  • Brian

    You know there was so much talk about Vin’s physical allomancy, that everyone forgot about her emotional allomancy. If Jon had tried to push into her mind (even though he doesn’t have that power yet and maybe never will), Vin could have just burned duralium and copper deadening his emotions and shutting down his mind for a few moments, then used the opening to shoot a coin through his head.

  • Brian

    I’m sorry it was Brass not Copper. It’s been a while since I read the series. As a matter of fact I would say that’s the only way she could beat Quick. If she burned duralium and brass deadening his mind for a while (he wouldn’t have copper to protect him from some of the impact), she could shoot a coin through his temporarily defenseless head. Although apparently he has the power to mind warp people, so she’d have to do that before he used that ability. Interesting, it is possible for her to win that fight.

  • Bill

    This just in: Obnoxious emo-street-rat with Napolean complex downs battle-hardened swordsman and dire wolf!


  • tilionvevfet

    Just a note: This poll had over 20000 votes, which is 2 to 10 times more than any other match so far.

  • @Bill

    I take it you’re not a big fan of Vin then?

    She isn’t JUST an emo-street-rat at all. She is a ridicolously powerful young woman, who uses an extremely well thought of, written and imaginative. magic system. And need I mention the fact that in the 3rd book she’s an empress? Or to mention preservation????

  • Jlingo

    Your lameo Jon Snow and his dog lost. Get over it!

  • comment man 1

    haha, yea I had forgotten that

    so it actually should read “This just in – Beloved Empress of the nation, our peoples greatest example of overcoming hard times and coming out on top, most feared woman in the land, kills yet another random soldier for the thousandth time, but this one had a dangerous pet.”
    Not very newsworthy at all really.

  • Fil

    Epic battle for sure. But once HBO’s Game of Thrones airs Jon will have a huge boost in support for future encounters.

  • @Fil – Not Jon. Hopefully Dany. 🙂

  • Altonahk

    I’ve seen write ups that I didn’t agree with, but none that I have despised like this one. Vin has a huge advantage, this guy INVENTED powers for Jon Snow. I’m a HUGE fan of ASOIAF, and Jon Snow is my favorite character, but he really didn’t have a chance against Vin. And the fact that he scored this well leads me to question the how seriously people take these matches. This isn’t supposed to be about popularity, it’s supposed to be about who you think would win.

  • StuartNorth

    Have to say its funny people are arguing with people who are not only making a personal decision about which character they prefer and enjoy reading about. but its also only a book people! you dont have any really control over any of it other than voting for the character you want to read about.

    And in response to the previous comment, I know Jon cant throw himself in to other peoples minds but looking at some of the wildlings above the wall and the “Potiential” that is mentioned in the book about Jon, I assume at some point he might be able to do it – and also dont forget he didnt actually manage to take control of Vin. also on that point there is such a thing as creative license 😉 If GRRM doesn’t like whats written im sure he could do something about it, or he might even use it as inspiration for further updates to books 😉

    Personally I havent voted on any battles because i like to read them to get an insight into other authors styles and dont really care who wins at the end of the day (after all im not going to go and throw a winners party for an imaginary fantasy character 😛 )

    After last years cage matches i have now read just about every novel Robert Fiest and Robert Jordon have written.

    I intend to start reading about Vin soon, the magic system she uses seems quite alien to me so will be interesting to see another authors ideas.

    imo keep it friendly, everyone has favourites, if they arent the same as yours just explain your position, get people interested in your character and you will end up making a fan of them im sure, After all we are all only reading these fights because we enjoy reading fantasy.

    also In my honest opion wait till next years matches Daenerys Targaryen and co will ride her dragons to victory, Im sure every GRRM fan will spring from every corner of the earth when the TV Show hits HBO in a month or so time and when they realise dragons are on the horizon im sure it will be nice and exciting to read and if im honest i cant wait i love Dragons!

    anyway in closing:

    They are books created to entertain, they arent created to cause arguements so please comment nicely 😛

    all best


  • Tarun

    All Vin needs to do is stay up in the Air and use a copper cloud to shield her mind. She wins easily

Get the best stories in your inbox, weekly. Any sufficiently advanced newsletter technology is indistinguishable from magic.