Cage Match 2011: Perrin Aybara versus Paul Atreides


The Contestants


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Paul Atreides.jpg

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Perrin Aybara
Age: 20s
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Power-forged hammer
Battle Rage; can summon wolves

Paul Atreides
Paul Muad’Dib
Age: Early-30s
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Benne Gesserit Training

The Breakdown


  • Supernaturally keen senses
  • Telepathic link to wolves
  • He’s T’avaren – probability and chance bend to his needs

    • More-or-less a God
    • Prescience
    • Inhuman agility, strength and speed

    • Unseemly codependent relationship with his wife
    • Pacifist at heart

    • Melancholy and Self-defeating
    • Reliance on Spice


    How we think the fight will go

    Perrin stood sweating and exhausted in the wind-swept expanse of craggy barren land surveying his foe, pondering the unnerving effect the man’s blue-on-blue eyes had on him. Much the same impression his shining golden eyes must have had on many a stranger—from the look and smell of them. This wiry, black-haired man’s scent was almost as unsettling as the eyes. Stone cold determination. Not a hint of anything else, except for that pervasive pungent cinnamon. He must have been bathing in the stuff.

    Paul Atreides in turn leveled a calm but perplexed stare at the golden-eyed hulk. This primitive wild man had somehow managed to dodge or deflect several killing blows that should have landed squarely. Additionally, it seemed to Muad’Dib that this shaggy troglodyte somehow distorted space-time, rendering Paul’s prescient mind’s eye useless. Any attempts to wade into the sea of temporal probability threatened to drown his mind in a churning, choppy, probabilistic tsunami. He normally saw densely tangled timeline branches radiating from him in all directions in undulating waves full of futuristic flotsam. With pathways easily picked out, analyzed, and traversed. But since sighting this stranger, the probability waves thickened and multiplied almost to the point of suffocation. And the simple act of choosing a strand sucked him dizzyingly deeper into what must be false futures with infinite variations of the same end—Paul’s death at the stranger’s hands.

    Atreides pushed the thoughts aside roughly once again, and resolved to continue to probe the other man with more attacks until he could get a better baseline reading the old-fashioned way.

    Perrin noticed from the start that the stoic stranger used a method of fighting with hands and feet, very similar to the Aiel— fluidly leaping, gliding, spinning about from one move to the next with grace enough to make a dancer look like a drunken slattern. Perrin reminded himself: This dancer could kill with an impossibly accurate kick to the head. Focus!

    As if on cue, Muad’Dib charged Perrin once more, cutting hard to the right at the last second and forcing Perrin to adjust his stance. Paul vaulted into a spinning head-high kick before Perrin could bring his hammer around. Perrin ducked and jabbed his great hammer, spear-like, at Paul’s sternum. Paul landed in time to catch the hammer head and absorb most of the blow as he pushed off the thrust, using the force to carry him back a safe distance.

    Then he felt the searing pain.

    Muad’Dib brought his trembling hands up to inspect the puckered pink and red welts on his palms where his hands had made contact with the strange hammer. He gave but a moment’s pause to ponder the technology this apparently not-so-primitive man wielded. Then he ran through the old Bene Gesserit exercises, afterthoughts now, to slow his heart rate, calm himself, and shunt the scorching pain to the recesses of his mind. Alright—hands off the hammer.

    With his opponent’s reach advantage and ability to somehow disrupt Paul’s prescience this contest would be decided by control of the fighting distance. The Voice would be a distinct advantage… if he ever got a baseline reading from the wild man.

    It was almost like trying to read an animal, which even to his beyond-Ben-Gesserit mind were inscrutable. Or, more aptly, it was like reading a madman—whose expression, thoughts, and very being fluctuated with little rhyme or reason. But Paul had long since learned that in any closed system—which ultimately all men were, even this golden-eyed oddity—patterns could be gleaned from apparent chaos. All it took was time and data.

    As Paul lowered his hands, Perrin charged forward to press the advantage. Atreides dodged a flurry of slashes from the beast of a man strong enough to wield the hammer the way a normal man might use a two-handed broadsword. He dodged a backhand slash, whipping his head back at the last second to give the false impression that the blow had very nearly landed. Then he waited for the upswing he knew was coming, and at its apex would give him the moment he needed to…there! Paul sidestepped and Perrin overextended his upward slash. He lunged in behind Perrin, in anticipation of an elbow, which came screaming toward Paul’s nose faster than he would have thought possible. No matter, he was ready for it. He twisted away and grabbed Perrin’s descending arm—one hand just below the huge bicep and the other securely under the armpit, using the larger man’s own momentum—and a prodigy’s innate understanding of leverage—to whip him around violently, sending Perrin flying head over heels. Perrin landed hard on his right shoulder and rolled gracelessly in a sliding heap, face down, some ten feet distant.

    As Perrin slid to a stop, Paul took two quick bounding steps, and launched himself into the air with an arc and trajectory that would bring his falling knee down squarely on the back of the incapacitated man’s skull.

    His right knee landed with a muffled thump and an explosion of dirt and sand. Perrin rolled out of the way at the last second and jumped to his feet on unsteady legs. Paul wondered How? He must have heard me. This one has very keen senses…and instincts.

    Perrin stood panting, hammer still miraculously in his left hand, right arm dangling from what felt like a dislocated shoulder. His concentration appeared fixed firmly on Paul, but to Muad’Dib’s Bene Gesserit-trained eyes and Mentat mind, the minute changes that signaled an inward, almost meditative shift in concentration was an alarming clarion call. In the middle of this heated battle, which the bearded man must have known he had no chance of winning, the large man’s pulse had slowed, his eyes unfocused just the merest fraction, and his tension ebbed a hair’s width. All signs pointing to a marshalling of strength. He’s either got another trick up his tattered sleeves, or he’s signaling reinforcements. Either way, it’s time to move! Paul thought.

    Paul took in a deep slow breath, and barked “Drop your hammer!”

    Perrin was torn from his thoughts, and before he knew what was happening, he felt his hand spasm open of its own volition. The hammer thumped heavily to the ground. Perrin’s stunned half-second pause was more than enough time for Paul to cover the distance at full speed, leading with a fist to Perrin’s throat, followed by two shots to his left kidney and an upper-cut that was somehow blocked. Paul’s ferocious front kick to Perrin’s left knee made contact though, separating bone from ligaments and cartilage with a tearing pop and enough force to send Perrin down like a large hairy sack of oats.

    As he fell, a poison-tipped knife bloomed from Perrin’s chest, just above the heart. Poison-tipped just in case fate saw fit to twist the laws of probability in the large man’s favor—such as not planting the blade in Perrin’s heart. Paul couldn’t remember the last time he’d missed a target with any weapon by such a wide margin. No matter. Paul could see the poison was taking its effect on his opponent quickly, wracking the man with violent convulsions that made his veins stand out thickly as his face turned purple. The Kweisats Haderarch turned and strode away as the large young man’s eyes dimmed from burnished gold to dull yellow, and he died with a quiet sigh.

    Muad’Dib sensed invisible tension dissipating as space-time was loosed from the dead man’s grip to right itself.

    Predicted Winner: Paul Atreides


    Check out the previous match!

    Check out the next match!

    Check out the Bracket

    Perrin Aybarra is a character from the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson; Paul Atreides is a character from the Dune series by Frank Herbert, Brian Herbert, and Kevin Anderson

    Perrin image courtesy of John Seamas Gallagher. Paul Atreides image courtesy of Universal Pictures.

    Ndi Sampson contributed to this Cage Match

    • Chalky

      Methinks this is the end for Muad’Dib

    • That’s not how I pictured Perrin in my head. I think he would win.

    • Jlingo

      Well any sane and logical person knows that Paul would not lose but the way people vote these days you might as well say good-bye to Paul now.

    • Torch

      WOW. A dead heat so far. I would have bet the farm on the Jordan-ites skewing this one.

    • trench

      Strangely enough I voted or paul in this one. Im a WOT HCFF to the core but I like Paul way more then Perrin.

      It does feel wierd though.

      This doesn’t mean I agree with the people complaining about fans voting for their series, I definetly dont want to get lumped those folks

    • cjon71

      The problem here is that although Paul may be a better fighter that Perrin, Perrin is Ta’veren and the pattern needs hima t the last battle. Therefore the pattern will twist and make the improbable happen thus insuring that Perrin wins.

    • Chris

      Paul would almost certainly win, he has near perfectly foreknowledge of events, but I’m going with Perrin simply because Paul’s ability seems a bit cheap in a fight, I mean it doesn’t matter how strong you are, if he knows everything that will happen…

    • Uncle Saltporker

      Listen, I know that there are a ton of Jordan fans out there. I love his books in the extreme as well. But this is a fight. The nitty gritty truth of it is that Paul is near God-like while Perrin is merely outstanding.

      This match has nothing to do with the last battle. If you wanted to quote about the last battle then you would have to mention the inevitable future of Paul as well. So lets just leave those out.

      Perrin has the pattern bend around him. That’s fine. Paul is Prescient to the point where he can see ALL outcomes. Even the bending of the pattern. Lets recap.

      Perrin – Great fighter, wolf senses, Ta’veren, weapon that slays darkspawn.
      Paul – Great fighter, Prescience, demigod, not a darkspawn.

      This goes to Paul.

    • wcarter4

      I am a WOT fan (I am also one of the few people voting on how I actually think an individual fight would go). I like Perrin as a character a lot more than I do Paul, but there is no way Perrin could ever win that fight. If they were in the dream world, then Perrin would be the god-moder and could quite literally do whatever he wanted to Paul, but in person, the deck is just too stacked against him

    • Breadedwit

      I will admit I am the one everyone hates. I vote for Perrin merely because I enjoy his character far more. Honestly to me that is what this is about. Perrin could only win in a certain situation but he is an amazing character. Although I have never been a fan of the demigods… probably why I am not the biggest fan of Rand.

    • Gordon Fremen

      Perrin is going to win, but I still urge people to vote for Muad-dib, because he’s awesome (at least in Dune) and the goddamn Fremen are some of the coolest motherfuckers in fantasy. Do it. Vote for Paul. He’ll ride a goddamn spiceworm into the future, where Wheel of Time fanboys have no power.

      (like I’m one to talk about fanboys.)

    • Ausk

      Wow, Perrin is actually wining right now. If Perrin can beat Muad-dib then WoT might just win again. Cage Match 2012 will be Mat Cauthon and another WoT victory. Hell yeah, three in a row!

    • johthohar

      I’m really hoping that the general dislike of Perrin among WoT fans will turn this around in Paul’s favor. I’d like to see Paul v. Quick Ben in the semifinal. Laughed my ass off at the Quick v. Pug writeup. Shame on you suvudu…. What a cheap way to avoid the scorn of fans. Hilarious though. Loved it!

    • Reechter

      If Perrin wins this year, and it’s down to Mat next year, it’ll be an easy walkover in comparison. It seems to me that far more people are Mat-fans than Perrin-fans.

      Not to mention that Mat is not only Ta’veren like Perrin, but also unnaturally lucky to the point of rediculosity. Any wirteup with Mat in it would be hilarious.

      If they include a WoT character they don’t want to win next year, I’ll say add one of the wondergirls, or possibly one of Rand’s chicks. I’d like to see Min fight. She wouldn’t stand a chance in the later stages I believe, but she’d make it past a few rounds, and there’s potential to write good stories. Same with Aviendha – she’d have the honor to fight hand-to-hand with the non-magical opponents, and the strength to fight with the magicians as well.

    • SG

      I’m a pretty hardcore WoT fan, but this one goes to Paul. I’m not going to vote on who is my “favorite” – I love Perrin and Paul’s a little nuts for me, but he has the upper hand with the Voice, the Bene Gesserit training, the fighting style…everything. Perrin could hold his own, but I agree with the write up. It eventually is down to Paul.

      Now, in a Paul vs Rand fight….Rand would win 😉

    • N Walk

      WoT is my favorite series but Dune is my favorite book so I was torn from an emotional standpoint on this one.

      But when you actually put logic on this one instead of just voting for your favorite, the outcome is obvious. Perrin wouldn’t even touch him.

      Paul wins hands down

    • Justin

      i see many posts condeming WOT fans voting, for their fav however what needs to be understood paul maybe godlike but perrin is taveeren meaning he is a creature not just of the creator but of the universe itself, killing blows will miss, shots fired at point blank will fail to discharge, paul isnt just fighting a wild primitive he is fighting the universe

    • Archon

      ROTFLMFAO @ Chris

      You just said that you went with Perrin because PAUL’s ability seems cheap… Talk about the crow calling the raven black! The could have titled the WoT “Deus Ex Machina” with all of the cheapness happening there… Look at Justin’s previous post;

      “perrin is taveeren meaning he is a creature not just of the creator but of the universe itself, killing blows will miss, shots fired at point blank will fail to discharge, paul isnt just fighting a wild primitive he is fighting the universe”

      Man you can’t get any cheaper than that… And If they ever had a cage match to determine who was the cheapest character in all of fantasy literature, They would just auto-hand the trophy to Rand and let everyone else fight it out to see who get to lose to any of the other uber-cheap characters in the WoT series… And this isn’t even about whether or not the WoT series is any good, it’s about making up ridiculous excuses to justify your fanboyism… That’s like ASoIaF fan saying that they’re voting for Jon Snow over somebody else because the other character’s author takes too long to write their sequel books… Insane rationality…

      Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess…

    • Rachel

      I think a lot pf people are underestimating Perrin here. Many think that Perrin will definately lose to Paul because he is far too disadvantaged (e.g. Paul is “More-or-less a God”). I am a fan of both WoT and Dune, so this comment isn’t really biased, but the fact is that Perrin is Ta’veren. If the Pattern isn’t done with Perrin yet (which it isn’t), then it won’t let Perrin die. So this isn’t really a battle of strength and wits, it’s a battle of chance. I think that people should consider this more than anything else. Just saying…

    • Rachel

      Oh, and one more thing … What’s with the author calling Perrin “primitive”? I don’t think I’ve ever heard other characters think of him that way in WoT … “Shaggy” and “unruly”, yes, but “primitive”? 0_o

    • gnomadd

      utter crap…. perrin dies… miserably

    • Gremlin

      Y’know, at first, being a fan of both, I was edging towards Paul, but then I realized that in a straight non-powered fight, Perrin would take Paul hands down…and the problem with Paul is that Perrin’s major advantage (ta’veren) completely negates Paul’s major advantage (prescience).

      And what about the Fremen vs. the wolves? Fremen=Aiel, and we need only look at the Battle of Dumai’s Wells and the Battle of Malden to see how Perrin fares against them. The Fremen would be torn apart.

      As for Uncle Saltporker with: “Perrin has the pattern bend around him. That’s fine. Paul is Prescient to the point where he can see ALL outcomes. Even the bending of the pattern. Lets recap.”

      Sorry dude, that argument is actually rendered null and void once you get to the end of the Dune series. The Atreides prescience is easily circumvented by mere technology – it wouldn’t hold a candle against Perrin being Ta’veren.

      And I have to admit, Justin has a point – being Ta’veren means Perrin will die when the Pattern needs him to, which won’t come a moment sooner than the Last Battle, whereas Paul…well, saying more would be spoiling it.

      Let’s just say that in a match between Perrin Goldeneyes Aybara & Paul Muad’dib Atreides, Perrin wins hands down. Paul wouldn’t stand a chance.

      Now Perrin vs. Duncan Idaho or Miles Teg…those matches would be far more even, if not tilted against Perrin altogether.

    • Dead Troll

      Paul is a better figthter. Paul has the killer voice. If Perin faced Paul. The only way Perin being Ta’verin helps him in this fight is if it causes him to stay home. To me the whole idea that Perin could luck himself into a win with his Ta’verin is cheap. If that were the case you could say he would win every match in this tournament because of he Ta’verin. I say that Paul Atredies beats Perrin silly and Perin’s heart stops from the supreme but kinking he receives. He is revived after being medically dead for say 2 minutes. because he was medically dead he looses the match, but he survives to fulfill the pattern.

    • Sam

      Perrin’s good, but there is no way in hell Paul “I reinvented God Mode” Muad’Dib Atreides would lose to him. If it were one of Jordan’s female characters, there would be a chance, because when Paul turns his talents to romance, everyone loses and someone gets turned into a sandworm-god. But if it’s a man-to-man fight…yeah, Perrin’s screwed. Though I wonder if all the commenting on Perrin being out of his league is what inspires the voting?

    • Gremlin

      Woop, almost forgot:

      For folks who haven’t actually read the Dune series in its entirety yet, Voice can be resisted through a variety of methods…including sheer willpower and simply not being human.

      Paul’s Voice would have no effect on Perrin. One, he’s a wolfbrother (not quite human). Two, he’s Perrin (willpower).

      Also, for those who haven’t actually read the Wheel of Time series in its entirety yet:

      1. Battle of the Two Rivers
      2. Battle of Dumai’s Wells
      3. Battle of Malden

      Perrin is a better fighter than Paul.

      So far, we’ve established that Paul’s prescience won’t work, Paul’s Voice won’t work, and that Perrin’s a better fighter.

      Just to drive it home, Perrin’s hearing negates the sandworm advantage (thumpers wormsign), a bludgeoning weapon such as a hammer would be slow enough to negate the advantage of a Holtzman generator, and the men of the Two Rivers would pick off the Fremen from a distance before they could get close.

      Perrin’s got this one in the bag.

    • Dead Troll

      I can respect the argument that Perrin would win because he is a better fighter. The Ta’verin thing is confusing to me though. You could use the fact of Perrin being Ta’verin as an excuse for him to win any fight in this tournament. I think that would cheapen the tournament though. In addition to this I can imagine scenarios where Perrin is not killed but beaten unconscious. There is no need to kill Perrin and so he could still be used to fulfill the pattern. In my opinion Paul wins this fight.

    • Gremlin

      So after reading both series in their entirety…

      Perrin’s ta’veren negates Paul’s prescience.
      Perrin’s will & wolfbrother aspect negates Voice.
      Perrin’s a better fighter (Battle of Two Rivers, Battle of Dumai’s Wells, Battle of Malden).
      Perrin’s Two Rivers men negate Paul’s Fremen (guerrilla ranged tactics vs. berserker melee tactics).
      Perrin’s hammer negates Paul’s Holtzman generator if he’s got one (slow & heavy).
      Perrin’s senses negate Paul’s sandworms (thumpers & wormsign).

      So…logically speaking, coming from a perspective covering both series in their entirety, I don’t see how Paul could possibly win this.

    • Gremlin

      @Deadtroll: with you on the unconscious thing, for sure.

      In this case, though, I think it’s more that Paul’s major advantage in a fight is the Atreides prescience mixed with Spice-enhanced physiology. Paul’s got the physical edge on Perrin, but ta’veren…think Scarlet Witch from Marvel or Heart of Gold from Hitchhiker’s Guide. Probability just goes haywire, makes predicting the future more or less impossible.

      Since that nixes the major advantage, Paul’s gotta rely on backup strategies to win, where Perrin largely outclasses him.

    • Lepus

      Perrin fans seem to be making a big deal out of Perrin being ta’veren. Don’t forget that, while the protagonists of WoT are powerfully ta’veren, they’re not the only fish in the sea. As far as I’m concerned Paul is one of the only characters who has seen more lucky (or at least future facilitating) and improbable coincidences than Rand himself, much less the weaker Perrin. Paul, while he certainly was skilled and smart, had a thousand little details fall into place to place around him to become an interplanetary emperor. Since ta’veren is an advanced form of fate, why shouldn’t Paul’s crazy ability to have been born in the right time on the right planet around the right people and I’m not going to spoil it but a lot of other lucky things happen for him be ignored? I don’t like to have to apply another book’s logic system to Paul, but there it is. If Arthur Hawking was strongly ta’veren, where does that leave a man who conquered everything everywhere?

      Tl;dr: Paul’s got a big destiny, too. Just throwing out some unmeasurable metaphysical idea uniquely expressed in one book (but conceptualized in many other books) is a poor way to justify voting for a guy with a hammer and a pack of wolves in a fight with Paul Atreides. Go with your heart over you head if you wish, I certainly have for some combats, but call a spade a spade.

    • Hubay

      Perrin might be a good fighter in his time, but paul is from a point further down the timeline of humanity where selective breeding has refined people’s fighting skills. In god-emperor we see duncan idaho loose to a bureaucrat because he’s an ‘older model.’ Also, we’ve seen when perrin fights a skilled swordsman he’s actually at a disadvantage; in knife of dreams he only survives his final fight because of a stay arrow.

      I would point out for the ‘fanboy’ argument, though that while it’s a little silly to see cthulhu loose to a guy with a sword, it’s also silly to toss cthulhu into the mix to begin with. A lot of the best sff characters are just people with swords or guns or whatever, so if this thing’s supposed to be fun, we have to assume both sides have a fair fight.

    • Roberto

      Ugh. Paul should win.

    • Can’tStandWoTFanboys!

      Yeah! Another Cage Fight ruined. I love when logic is thrown out for rabid fanboyism obsession that mirrors Twilight girl envy. Perrin would never beat Paul. WoT fans know it and every other person voting knows it!

    • Shadow’sBane

      no Perrin can’t defeat him…..But he can give Paul a good fight….but that would be in a real fight….real fights are not decided by votes.
      this is More of a Popularity contest……since it is decided by Votes…..Duh.
      SO Perrin is gonna win…becoz Perrin has More fans.
      Stop crying.

    • Niki the Wise

      Thank you Shadow’s Bane. Virtual duels of fictional characters just cannot be more than a popularity contest when the winners are decided by votes. These fights aren’t determined by skill or advantage- their determined by fans.

    • Can’tStandWoTFanboys!

      I feel like I am talking to a Twilight little girl. Anyway what do you not understand that this should “not” be a popularity contest?! If you setup a cage fight and situation you discuss, debate and state why you think which one would win and why you voted for them. Otherwise there would just be a picture of the character, name and option that says vote! Anyone that defends their reason for voting by saying, “But I like them, wahhhh.” They are devoid the ravages of intelligence.

    • Niki the Wise

      Even if I know the other team is better and will probably win, that doesn’t stop me from backing my team. I understand that the abilities of each contestant would determine the winner in a real cage match. This is a virtual duel by fictional characters. If it wasn’t a popularity contest then it wouldn’t be decided by votes. Everyone on this site is a fan (with the possible exception of the troll who is probably here just to start fights) and I don’t see why it is wrong to vote for a favorite character despite who they are up against.

    • tsur

      thus GOD came to the stadium for all to see his might. and waves and storms struck the walls. and thunders white white and holy came down.
      and perrin said “let there be no GOD”
      and there was GOD no more.
      if this sound enormously ediotic to you, vote muad’dib.

    • Niki the Wise

      Even if I know the other team is better and will probably win it doesn’t stop me from cheering on my team. The abilities of each contestant would surely determine the winner of a real cage match. These are virtual duels by fictional characters. If it wasn’t a popularity contest, then the winner wouldn’t be decided by votes. Everyone on this site is a fan (with the sole exception of the troll {Can’tStandWoTFanboys!}) who is obviously here just to start fights) and I don’t see how it is wrong to vote for a favorite charcter despite who they are up against.

    • Nocatchyhandle

      C’Mon. I’m a huge WOT fan and I don’t even like Dune. At all. But Paul owned this fight.

    • CanStandWoTandGRRMFanboys!!

      I move for a motion of a ban of all WoT and GRRM characters in anymore Cage Fights and I move for an immediate removal of Jon Snow and Perrin from this competition!!!!!!!!!!!

    • TheTrollcrusher

      I also don’t know why I put an apostrophe in that last gets…

    • Inishi

      If it were to come down to a melee, then Perrin wins. However Paul has an unfair advantage with spice, he has almost atium like prescience and technology. I think Paul would win, but if Paul can fight Perrin, I don’t see why we don’t bring Goku into the cage fights and see him destroy everything. They are warriors in completely different ways, it does neither a justice to have them fight. Now if we were to go mages against mages, or warriors againts warriors we could have something more even.

    • Jlingo

      Will people please calm down and just discuss the Cage Fight scenario. They will shut down the comments section if people are cursing all over the place. Now I am pulling for Paul. I think he has a lot of advantages with seeing in the future but Perrin is no slouch and would be difficult to kill. I think the write-up was a good one and we will see when all is said anddone.

    • AHEM

      It’s kind of sad to see the WoT side turn devolve into the “this is just a popularity contest, Perrin wins because we like him more, lollollol.” Especially considering that in both last year’s cage match and the villains match, Rand was the character who would logically win who finally ended both of the aSoIaF characters who won unfairly due to popularity.

      Rand: Perrin, you have become the very evil that I have fought tirelessly to destroy! You’ve fallen to the Dark One! You’ve joined the Dark Side!

      Perrin: Sorry, Rand. The fans made me do it.

    • Archon


      I get the impression that some people wouldn’t mind if these got shut down.

      @Niki & Troll Crusher

      This was absolutely NOT designed as a popularity contest… if it were, they wouldn’t bother to do individuals and break them all down from a combat standpoint… they would just put a list of popular Sci-Fi and Fantasy series on the screen and tell everyone to vote for which one they like best… ASoIaF fans and WoT fans are happy to claim it as a popularity contest because that absolves you of the fact that you are not following the intent… and the Suvudu people are not going to tell you one way or the other because they are just thrilled to have as many people as possible visiting their site… But let’s be real… even if the Suvudu people did actually come on here and say that the intent WAS to vote according to who you think would really win, it wouldn’t stop you guys from voting based on popularity anyway… as somebody else mentioned, just call a spade a spade… This wasn’t DESIGNED as a popularity contest, but you guys are going to vote that way regardless because it suits your consuming fanboyism to do so… and that’s fine if you feel that way… just admit it… and the truth shall set you free!

    • Ausk

      Can we all just agree to ignore CanStandWoTandGRRMFanboys!!
      Maybe if he can’t get a response out of people he might just leave.

    • Ausk


      I’m fine with admitting that I voted Perrin because I like Perrin better. I think voting logically is overrated. I’ll leave the logical discussion on who should win to the comments section.

    • dpomerico

      Guys–if we see you using foul or abusive language, you’re going to have your comments deleted. Just letting you know.

    • Ausk


      I’m fine with admitting that i voted for Perrin because I like him more. I think voting logically is overrated. I’ll leave the logical discussion on who should win to the comment section.

    • SuvuduWriteupsSuck

      Perrin is T’averen, fate will bend to enable a victory for him. Enough said, end of story.

    • Dandin Storm

      Paul is way too fast, and has been studying how people move and fight for too long, Perrin’s camera-behind-the-head/fan boy guardian angels can’t save him.

    • archon


      2 things;

      First, given your name, I couldn’t IMAGINE a suckier write up than “Perrin is T’averen, fate will bend to enable a victory for him. Enough said, end of story.”… That’s even suckier than “Rand shoots him with Balefire. Match over.”

      Second, If intangible conceptualizations of a specific storyline are to be taken into account, Surely you wouldn’t vote for Rand or Perrin against the Witch-King Ring Wraith from Lord of the Rings, since Middle Earth intangible conceptualizations say that no man can defeat the Witch-King, and Rand and Perrin are both men… But wait, let me guess… that’s different, right?

    • archon

      BTW, for all of you WoT fanatics trying to convince yourselves that Perrin would win because him being T’averen would make it happen… You people are distorting the truth to reach your desired conclusion… Being T’averen simply means you are destined to live to be at the final battle… it does NOT mean that you are guaranteed to win every contest that you enter… and since we have seen on a number of occasions here that death is NOT needed to win these cagematches, BEING T’AVEREN IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM GUARANTEES THAT PERRIN WINS THIS CONTEST… Deal with it…

    • margam

      I think people are making too much about Paul’s prescience. When Paul fought Feyd-Rautha, he was blind to the future, and afterward, Fenring could’ve killed him. Neither of those two had prescience. In an actual fight between these two, I don’t know who would win, but it would be close

    • JohnW.

      “Perrin stood panting” That part does not work. Battle rage would not allow for standing around breathing heavy with an enemy within grasping distance. Perrin would have closed and closed with Paul. Paul would find the ferocity of an attacking wolf very different from his other fights. Perrin would not let him have time to consider the fight in such a thorough way.
      Perrin wins through aggressiveness and surprise.

    • Kristi Deming

      While I accept that Paul has plenty of advantages, I would suggest people look to the Paul of the Sci-Fi Channel’s presentation. The Voice IS used, but not like the way David Lynch over used it, making it a far more believable ability.
      Next, if you really want a fair fight here, they should have had Perrin facing Leto II…everyone keeps carrying on about Paul being god-like: his second son, Leto II, WAS a god. And lived almost 3500 years until he was able to remove the ability to use precognitive abilities. Leto (merging with and eventually becoming a Worm-like being) was a far better fighter than his father for one simple reason: Leto accepted who he was, what he would have to do, while Paul was always trying to find some way out of it.

      Don’t get me wrong…after ToM, I am thrilled to have a “real” Perrin back. If he were facing off against someone like Leto II, I would have had to vote against him. I mean, from her own admission, Alia went up against 11 of those flying razor discs when the best never do more than 9…and Leto outmatched her easily.

      And for the people carrying on about ta’veren: it isn’t a catch all. Moiraine (and a few others) keep trying to remind people that while ta’veren may have chance twist around them, they CAN be killed…if they are, the Pattern will try to mold itself around the hole, but it can’t be filled by someone else. So if Rand died, Tarmon Gai’don would still happen, but the Light would be screwed since it wouldn’t have a Champion to fight against the Shadow’s Champion.

      So, it’s Perrin for now…until the writers come up with a reasonable fight for him to lose.

    • Lisa Hayward

      Tai’shar Manetheren!
      Kiserai ti Sei’cair!!

    • Kristi Deming

      Oh, and another point that has nothing to do with being Ta’veren: Perrin showed all the “know-it-all” Dreamwalkers that what happens in it is only real if you accept it as real. Rand unknowingly did this in The Dragon Reborn, when he followed Ishamael into Tel’aran’rhiod, and deflected Balefire with Callandor (wouldn’t have been possible…but Rand didn’t know what it was, just assumed that he could split it like some of the other Weaves he’s deflected with his sword.) Perrin caused Balefire coming at him to vanish, and freaked everyone out. Until he explained that it was a mind-over-matter thing (and something we’ve had plenty of proof of): what happens in the Dream is only real if you accept it as such. Moghedien trapped herself by believing the a’dam would affect her. Mesaana got turned into Produce because Egwene learning it from Perrin, refused to accept the a’dam Mesaana put on her, then imagined her mind bending and breaking, producing the world’s first drooling Chosen…
      SO, if Perrin can have the WILL to not only work in the World of Dreams, but can have strength of mind enough to realize that it only has power over him if he lets it (kind of like the Gom Jabbar), Paul’s “Voice” wouldn’t have affected him.

    • Oraymw

      c’mon guys, Paul Atreides. Perrin is awesome, but Paul is…. he’s…. he’s Paul Atreides.

    • Archon


      You’re trying to convince 14th century minds that the world is round… Perrin is simply not on Paul’s level… not even close… but people will convince themselves of whatever they want to believe in the absence of proof (hell, sometimes even in the face of proof)… and since these are fictional characters, it clearly can’t be proven…

    • Sosei

      The outcome completly depends on what point in the series they are fighting each other? Do they have allies with them? If Paul is blind and Perrin has no fear of his battle rage then Perrin will win in one-on-one. If Paul isn’t blind, he will win. But if they get to bring allies, Perrin will win. Then Perrin has magic. And magic beats anything Paul can throw at him (except possibly nuking Perrin).

    • Chosen

      So if Perrin does not win this match. Would all the little haters out there shut up, cause that would be like Christmas in March. I have never seen a group of trolls so hate filled since… well I never actually seen such hate mongering for fictional characters in my life. You people suck, I mean big time, get a life, seriously and grow up. I voted Paul just to get you people to shut up.

    • Ursula

      Hey, I’m a big WOT fan, but I will say this: Perrin is not a duelist. A war hammer is not the best one on one weapon.

      You put the man in the middle of a battle with numerous enemies, and He’s going to walk out of there 99 times out of a 100. But we almost never have to see him fight one on one with anyone, anywhere, because he mostly tries to find a way not too. So unless you have his wife in a headlock or something, he’s not going to ever make the first move (Cage match disadvantage), he’s going to try and mitigate the damage (Cage match disadvantage). If he manages to get you with that hammer, you are probably done (because bones smashed to powder are not conducive to fighting) , but the trouble is that fast opponents are really good at not getting hit with the hammer.

    • siuan

      Oh. Wow. You’re all getting a bit to overwrought over this. Maybe you should have your afternoon nap.

      (Goldeneyes Goldeneyes Goldeneyes)

    • Kristi Deming

      First, before I do this, I have to say that “Ndi Sampson” has a HUGE bias…especially referring to Perrin as a “primative wild man” even a “troglodyte” at one point. Perrin is far from STUPID and MORONIC (as long as “SHE” isn’t involved.) Also, everyone keeps carrying on about Perrin needing to call the wolves to save him, which is a total crock. He’s fought Trollocs, Fades, Aiel, and the only time he EVER calls to the wolves is to save Rand, or “HER”…and the Battle of Malden they were outnumbered 6.5 Aiel to every 1 person in Perrin’s group.
      Perrin would not rush into a fight (look at how long he planned rescuing “HER”, and eventually made an arrangement with the Seanchan to get help.) If anything about the books everyone should know by now: Perrin thinks EVERYTHING through, almost to the point of ridiculousness, because he knows too well how many people he’s responsible for. He may not have Mat or Barid Bel’s stroke of genius when it comes to battles, but he’s not an idiot, he’s not incompetent, and he’s far from a mindless “troglodyte”!!! I think that is probably the one reason I am prompted to do this: I’m sick to death of everyone acting like he’s a brainless moron (the only moment he was ever that was when he married “HER”.)

    • Ferggg

      One cannot totally dismiss his Ta’veren abilities not working for him. There have been glimpses of how it’s affects work in previous battles when the outcome should have been with either Perrin’s, Rand’s, or Matt’s death. Matt especially.

      Paul is quick and does have a technological advantage but Perrin has shown cool, calculating thought and how he works things out like a “blacksmith’s puzzle”. I think Perrin has fought worse in the wolf’s dream where minds can bend the landscape around him and being able to adjust. Obviously he can’t drag Paul into the Wolf’s dream unlike Rand who can open a gateway to it but Perrin shows the ability to adjust to the situations. I also do not think the Paul’s voice would have enough of a lasting affect for Perrin to simply drop his guard. Bring in a few wolves to distract Paul and Perrin will have an extremely difficult, hard fought win.

    • Michael

      I’m a huge WoT fan… but I have to go with Paul on this one. Especially once you take care of the Ta’veren aspect. For Perrin it manifests primarily in the form of bending people to his will, not the luck that Mat would have. Further, defeating some person from another universe isn’t exactly essential to the pattern aside from keeping him alive. It is entirely possible that Perrin can die, and against someone like Maud’Dib, it’s practically a given.

    • @archon…..

      god-like or not. He’s still gonna die.

      Fanboy or not….Look at the tally.

    • Archon


      There seems to be a rash of people around here who are making up posts in their heads to respond to… I never said that Perrin WASN’T going to win… In fact, if there were any CHANCE that he might lose, most of my posts on this thread would have been pointless and moot… much like your post directed at me…

    • Jlingo

      I am impressed. Paul Atreides has put up one tough fight to the relentless WoT fanboyism. There are more logical people out there than I thought but alas the Twilight like girl obsession of WoT fanboyism will smash the hopes and dreams of common sense people and Paul Atreides into small grains like the spice. Too bad….

    • Breadedwit

      HAHAHA I understand that Paul would win probably 9 times out of 10 but come on. Talking trash on WoT “fanboys” for voting for the only character they know and love is just ignorant. Many have never read Dune and in that case you throw down the character you know more about and like. Honestly who can say they didn’t vote for one of their favorite characters on here because they didn’t know enough about the other sides. If that were the case I can guarantee we would have a sad sad amount of votes.

    • do you need to be burped as well?

      Y post at all as it seems you are only out to attack fanboyism….of which you belong to dune….who cares about fanboy/gurlism? I mean, really?! Obviously, a larger number of voters believe Perrin is capable of winning. I think the writeups only encourage the negativity by selecting a side. The vote should occur first, then a write up should be done to reflect who won. Aye?

      Its funny how many folks become sore losers while they are being beaten. If you are so concerned, find the troops to rally behind Dune, or whatever might be your pleasure and let your votes do the talking. Otherwise, take being beaten by WoT fans like the spice smokin’ sand monkeys you are.

    • Jonathan W.

      I think this fight is surprisingly balanced, although I admit I’ve only read the first Dune novel. Both parties have the ability to use chance and fate to their advantage, remarkable strength of will, and significant melee combat experience. Neither of their experience quite fits this situation – Paul’s training against weapons is skewed towards combatants with swords and personal force fields, while Perrin, although he’s fought many types of opponents, most often does so in the context of a larger ongoing battle. This could go either way. However, Paul is the result of a long breeding program, which is a bit better than “Blood of Manetheren”, and has been training all of his life, which probably trumps Perrin’s last couple years of adventure. I’d say Paul has the edge.

      However, we should keep ta’veren in mind. If the odds are 2:1 for Paul, Paul will win 2/3 of the time, but if they are 10:1 or 100:1 for Paul, Perrin probably wins every fight. If the odds are 1000:1, that’s too bad for Perrin. Ta’veren can only do so much. (Although Rand might win at those odds).

    • Bill

      I love Perrin, and consider him the closest in personality of any character here to my own, besides Jon Snow…so I identify with him and cheer for him. That said, there’s just no way. Paul is the apex of human civilization.

    • JD

      Thats not how being Ta’avern works, it has nothing to do with the last battle. Arturhawkwing was ta’avern, and he lived long befor the last battle. Being ta’avern means that the universe bends itself around you, and Paul is part of the universe. Now, that doesnt mean that Perrin will inevitably win, but it certainly doesnt hurt his chances

    • MAB77

      Ahah! I can’t help myself laughing reading this debate. As whoever read both series would know, on one side, we have a Ta’veren, which more or less means that the universe bends itself around Perrin. On the other, we have the almighty Kwisatz Haderach, which more or less means that the universe bends itself around Paul. So I’d say at best that being a Ta’veren only even the odds a bit for Perrin, it certainly helps but its no advantage.

      Now has many have remarked, if this is only a contest of strength and power then Perrin does not have the slightest chance. To anyone that have read both series it is not even open to debate. Wolfboy is way out of his league here. The millennial old Bene Gesserit breeding program, produced the Ultimate Human Being. Paul Atreides is superior on each and every levels. He is faster, stronger, exceptionally intelligent and commands powers by far above Perrin’s abilities.

      And yet, Perrin could certainly still win… or to be more precise Paul could let Perrin win the day.

      I see 2 factors here. First, Paul is someone whom decided not to become “what he would have to be to save humanity”, it is a burden he passed over. Secondly, Paul is an honorable person, he would certainly approve what Perrin stands for and in his way try to help him as best as possible. Looking into Perrin’s future he would see the necessity for Perrin to be at that last battle for humanity to have a future. As such I believe the Kwisatz Haderach would manipulate the events to give Perrin the illusion of victory. Wolfboy would continue to the last battle and Paul would discretely return to the desert.

      In the end, it’s only a question of circumstances. In any work of fiction there are myriads of possibilities so anyone can defeat anyone provided you have a good story to explain how. Which is why I’d like to see 2 texts per cage-match, one for each side. I would vote for what I consider the best-written story. In the meantime I’ll stick to vote for the logically stronger character. Futile as it is, GO KWISATZ HADERACH GO!!!

    • Shadow’sBane

      @ Chosen
      Don’t lie..
      u gave ur vote to Paul becoz u didn’t want Perrin to Win. 😉
      After all u r a Chosen(Forsaken) 😛
      U can’t help it, its ur nature to fight against light.

    • Felnor

      Paul has two major advantages over Perrin. 1) Prescience which at one point when he was blind allowed him walk around and do stuff with no problem. 2) Advanced Tech give Paul a shield and watch Perrin endlessly wail at Paul never scratching him cause he fails to realise his attacks to fast to enter the shield. There is no chance in hell Paul could lose this match all Perrin has is brute force and wolves and if you want to look at it through that angle Paul has Sand Worms.

    • Dani

      Quite frankly, I think this write up is absolute crap; the writer doesn’t seem to understand Perrin, and is presumably a Paul fan.

      And you know what? On paper, Paul is stronger than Perrin. But isn’t that what it’s all about? Our heroes overcoming overwhelming odds? Logically, BECAUSE he’s weaker, BECAUSE he shouldn’t win . . . That’s why Perrin will win. Because those are the unspoken rules of fantasy-fiction.

      Look, I admit, I don’t know this Paul guy, so yes, I am biased. But god damn, I know Perrin.

      He won’t win because his Ta’veren-ness saves the day. He won’t win because he summons the wolves.

      Perrin will win because of his character. He’ll win for exactly the same reasons that he’s won his other fights and battles (within the WoT series, that is); Perrin is staunch and strong and observant and HE PLANS.

      Yes, this is a popularity contest. But people win popularity contests for a reason; their character is strong enough, is awesome enough.

      Furthermore, Perrin will win because he can elicit enough love from fans to make us vote for him. Paul may be awesome, but he doesn’t seem to be awesome enough to win this.

      So, I’ve said my bit, in an admittedly less-than-concise and eloquent way . . . Bu I hope you get the gist it. 🙂

    • Felnor

      TO all those who think Perrin has it in the bag cause he can’t die before the last battle.

      I’m going to assume that these battles have no bearing on the universe that each character is drawn from and as such once this cage match an event that takes place outside the reality of all of these universes im going to assume that the characters would be placed back into their world safeand sound meaning being need at the last battle wont save Perrin, besides each and every one of these character has an important destiny in their world. Besides it’s not a battle of who’s destiny is more important its an actual battle where prowess of arms, tactics, and special abilities are the deciding factor.

      Paul is an extreamely accomplished swordsman, has superhuman reflexs, intelect, can draw on the memories of his ancestors for help. Perrin isn’t just fight a man, he’s fighting the culmination of human evolution, a person whose physical skills far surpass even the most elite of humans and whose mind while on its own rivals a super computer can also tap into the memories of ancestors allowing him unparralled insight and tactical knowledge.

      One last thing for all those who say Perrin can’t die before the last battle, Paul knows exactly when and where he’s to die and it’s not here so i believe your point is moot.

    • Dani

      Oh yes. It’s also insulting that “Ta’veren” has been spelt incorrectly in the character bios.

    • Dani


      I agree with you when you said “I’m going to assume that these battles have no bearing on the universe that each character is drawn from and as such once this cage match an event that takes place outside the reality of all of these universes im going to assume that the characters would be placed back into their world safeand sound”

      That makes perfect logical sense; neither Perrin nor Paul’s book universes should or can impact on the outcome.

      However, you did contradict yourself when you said at the end “Paul knows exactly when and where he’s to die and it’s not here” . . . His “death” in this cagematch would not be a true death and he would be “place back into their world safe and sound” . . . That argument is invalid.

    • Dani

      Don’t think this posted the last time I tried >:(


      I agree with the what you said: “I’m going to assume that these battles have no bearing on the universe that each character is drawn from and as such once this cage match an event that takes place outside the reality of all of these universes im going to assume that the characters would be placed back into their world safeand sound”

      That makes perfect, logical sense. The book universes of the contestants shouldn’t and won’t influence the outcome in any way.

      However, you did contradict yourself when you said “Paul knows exactly when and where he’s to die and it’s not here” . . . This cannot be an argument for Paul winning, as any death in the cagematch wouldn’t be a true death.

    • Urthor

      at the end of the day Paul, though massive powers of prediction, martial art abilities etc can’t escape the face that Perrin carries an axe/hammer around depending on his mood; a stillsuit doesn’t really compete.

      Plus Paul’s blind

    • Yocxl

      If anybody has been paying attention to ANY of the Cage Matches and still thinks that logic is a factor, they’re the ones “devoid of intelligence”. This is a fansite. Vote like a fanboy. It’s a popularity contest.

      If logic was a factor, Jaime Lannister certainly wouldn’t have been able to defeat Cthulhu back in the first one… Cartman would not have won a single match, probably, in the Villains edition… And Martin the Warrior should not have been able to beat a trained human assassin. All of those things happened, though. Clearly logic doesn’t mean squat in this thing, and I think it’s far more entertaining when the underdogs win anyways. It’s far more fun to think of how a mouse with a mouse-sized sword can kill a human, or how a knight without his sword hand can kill a great old one.

    • Sosei

      The only way Perrin’s Ta’veren nature would affect this fight would be screwing up Paul’s future sight, therefore if Paul is blind then he won’t be able to defend himself. If Paul however isn’t blind, Perrin would be in for an ass-whopping.

      If it were Mat fighting a non-blind Paul the outcome would be less clear in my opinion. Mat’s Ta’verenness would DEFIANTLY affect the fight, as it affects chance. Mat is also more of an agile fighter, similarly to Paul and Mat carries not only his Ashandarei but about 12 knives hidden on his person. So disarming him is not an option. And on top of that he has several LIFETIMES worth of combat experience in his head. And is immune to magic (not that it matters here unless the Voice is magic).

      Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but won’t Paul die if he isn’t on Arrakis due to his dependency on spice? Which means he can only fight people on Arrakis and Perrin can fight anyone pretty much anywhere. Just sayin’

    • alseen

      why do people compare WoT fanboys to twlight girls? im pretty sure WoT was out before i was even alive, so yeah. if anything, they wish they could be us haha oh and ive tried to read Dune, but couldnt get into it. will try again when i get some down time. and Perrin could win this dual, so could Paul. but the funny thing is…….its based on VOTES! so vote for who YOU think would win, and stop talking trash about how others vote. oh and Paul IS pretty epic, but so is Perrin in ToM.

    • Orchestruction

      You know you could just assume all of us WoT fans bounding together to vote for Perrin even though Paul has all this power to be a Ta’veren effect!

    • a Reindeer

      @Archon, you said that, “…Middle Earth intangible conceptualizations say that no man can defeat the Witch-King…” However, that is not true. What is said that no man WILL defeat the Witch-king. There is a very important distinction there.

      That said, I honestly think that Paul would beat Perrin, as of the three ta’veren, Perrin is the worst fighter. Mat would probably kill him, and Rand could certainly kill him. But Perrin cannot.

    • Shane

      @Everyone who has posted whining that Paul could beat Perrin so he should win.

      This is a poll..its done on votes. It is a popularity contest, nothing else. Paul is an awesome character, as Dune is an awesome book. While Perrin is only an ok character from one of the most popular book series ever written., with going on like their 17th to 20th year of reading the series and still waiting on the last book.

      Even those of us who think of Perrin as one of our least favorite WoT characters…guess what?

      We’re going to vote for him. And guess what? Because of the number of us, he’s going to make it to the finals. He may not win, because everyone knows who he’s going to go up against, and aSoIaF is another insanely popular book series.

      So please, stop whining about how in a real fight Paul would win? They are no real…and once again, this is just a popularity contest.

    • Lepus

      I was planning to vote for Perrin in the finals but since the last poster was such a jerk I have changed my mind. Sorry we actually wanted to view this as an entertaining exercise instead of a review of the NYT Bestseller’s list.

    • Felnor

      @ Dani
      That my point was that the argument that Perrin “has to make it to the last battle thus he wont lose” is countered by Paul know when and how he’ll die.

      I still beileve my first thought in that there universal importance has no bearing whats so ever and the skill determins the victor.

    • Shane


      You’ll still vote for him.

    • Matthew

      The only thing i think i should correct is that perrin has a power wrought weapon that burns SHADOWSPAWN, idk if paul is a shadow spawn.

      But Perrin still wins, he’s a freakin truck

    • AHEM

      At least Paul managed to make it close in the end. He did remarkably well, considering the sheer amount of fanboy stupidity that was arrayed against him.

    • Chosen

      Wow a 9 vote margin, thats nuts

      You are a hate filled person and a poor sport.

    • Shane


      Again…it’s a popularity contest, how many times must this be brought up?

      I’m sure there is a character on here that is from a series you like so much you’ll vote for him/her/it just because its your favorite series. Despite the fact that who they face if faced in a true battle, would lose.

      Probably the aSoIaF character, seems the fans of that series would fear another match up with a WoT character, even if it is only Perrin who will most likely lose the final if he makes it (Which again, he most likely will.) Have reason to whine and moan and try to convince others not to vote for Perrin.

    • Shane


      But thats why he’s winning, because this is a popularity contest and we are voting for him. And those who don’t like him or like his opponent better are voting for that person.

      Should we lie to ourselves like you and say we are voting based upon skill or solid reasoning alone?

    • Chris

      Close one, but Perrin somehow survived. Wow.

    • Archon


      Apparently you need a class in remedial reading comprehension more than I need ANYTHING in life…

      If you read through my posts, I have not attacked ANYONE who has come right out and said “I voted for Perrin because I liked him better.” In fact, In a couple of my posts, I said that if you want to vote that way, that’s your perogative, just be straight about it… At least then you’re still honest and genuine… My issue was with the people who hide behind distrotions of truth to hide the fact that they are fanboys because don’t want that stigma attached to them… when you start manufacturing ridculous rational and outright lies to suggest that your favorite would win a battle he wouldn’t have a chance to win… I’m going to call you out… But I can understand why you would be confused, you clearly don’t have the comprehension level to pick that up… And BTW, I would pick WoT over Dune any day… I can’t stomach Dune at all, but it’s cool if you just want to make that up about me as well… you clearly have to manufacture things about me to try to pick apart since you can’t come up with anything more rational than juvenille insults…

    • Archon


      No, It’s not a popularity contest… see my above post… If you want to vote as though it IS a popularity contest… feel free, that’s your perogative… But don’t try to absolve yourself of being labled as a fanboy by suggesting that that’s what everyone is doing so it’s expected for you to do it… No, that’s NOT what EVERYONE is doing, and that’s not how the contest was designed… If It WERE intended as a popularity contest, they wouldn’t bother to put up combat-oriented statistics and do a combat write-up of each match… they would simply list the characters and tell everyone to vote on their favorite… It would be WAY easier for everyone that way…

    • Chosen

      dose anyone else envision Archon as an angry old man in his bathrobe stomping his foot and yelling at those damn kids get off his lawn. I know I do, and I get laugh every time.

    • Wow, good job Perrin – even as a WoT Fan, I voted Paul (because it made the most sense), but I’m not going to l ie – it makes me happy Perrin won! 🙂

    • Chosenmakesagoodpoint

      Stomp, Stomp, spit, Stomp, followed by more unintelligible ranting.

      @ Archon,

      Leave Archonneedsablankie alone. He called you out first and rightly so. You are pissing and moaning all over these boards in the most negative ways. Either you are fanboying for someone who lost already, or you are just trying to stir sh*t up.


      Thank you for being straightforward and for calling Archon out. Sick of his whining all over the boards. BTW, spice smokin’ sand monkeys….funniest thing I’ve ever read on these boards! Nice job!

    • archon

      @Chosen & Chosenmakesagoodpoint

      I’m sorry, I thought I was dealing with rational people… you dorks clearly haven’t made out of school yet to understand that REAL debates in the grown-up world are won by making VALID points(as I have been doing)… whereas in little kiddy land, they are won by juvenille insults like yours that have nothing to do with the facts… When either of you two can gatehr enough brains to make a valid argument instead of resorting to elementary-school playground tactics, then you can come sit at the big table…

    • fredpenner

      hmm this was clearly a popularity contest. I am a big fan of both books and as a character i like perrin more, and as a series i like wheel of time more, but c’mon paul atredes is the Rand Al’thor of his universe. He can literally see every possible future and react on it, and don’t give me that ta’vern junk, if anything Paul atredies would be a bigger ta’vern than Perrin. I love perrin but clearly he wouldn’t stand a hope in hell against Paul Atredies – and thats assuming paul doesn’t use any of his technological advantages (like a personal sheild that blocks anything swung with force) – just a one on one fist fight, Paul takes all without breaking a sweat.

    • archon


      Careful Fredpenner… the kiddie squad will come by and throw insults at you for making valid points that they don’t like but have no valid argument against…

    • andy

      where does it say who won?:D

    • Wow

      Personally, I’m proud that the votes were so close. I’ve only read The Wheel of Time and i love Perrin, but guys seriously. Perrin is a Great character but we all know that he CAN die. I mean what if the pattern spun it out that he died then the Horn brought him back at the last battle? we don’t know. But due to the fact that the votes were so close, we can see that the diehard fans are learning.


      I feel like you need to calm down a little bit. I see your points, and they are valid; but you don’t have to freak out so much. This competition is for fun. It’s a place where fans of good books can see other good books.

      @ any other Wheel of Tome fan

      please don’t hate me

    • I just want to protest the listing of Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson as being credited along with Frank Herbert.

      Frank Herbert created Paul, BH & KJA have done nothing but tear down his myth.

    • bobcat

      Perrin is a good character but Paul Atreides can’t be beat.

      Lazer guns
      Mind Control
      Can See the future
      Is the product of centuries of specific breeding to create a god-like being
      controls the known universe
      and most importantly
      …….Has ridden the mighty worm.

    • Sam

      While I’m not happy Perrin won, I think it’s cool that it was such a narrow margin. This really does deserve a close contest.

    • James

      i will vote perrin everytime he battles just because he is the only char i know besides Zed, who has already been beatn

    • Immortal_

      Woooow. LOL Perrin.. Sorry this outcome has made it impossible not to comment. As someone who is a long time fan of both WOT and DUNE sagas, and has read each entire series more than once.. I have to say this outcome is unreal.. in how fake and wrong it is. The only way Perrin would win is if Paul decided he was too weary of the world and it was his time to go and LET Perrin win.. the ONLY way.. and I love Perrin.. but Paul could make him explode internally with a word.. he could move so fast that Perrin couldn’t even react.. etc. and so on. so rediculous… Even if being Taveran kicked in, Perrin would be too busy suckling at Fayle’s teet to even fight.. then he’d probably trip over hopper and fall into the wolf dream on accident, realize that yes, he threw away his axe for his hammer and has no way to fight, and fail to figure out how to leave the dream while Paul slit his throat with a tooth of Shai Halud and gave his water back to the sand. I think Perrin is probably even more melancholy than Paul, and that is saying something. There just isn’t any hope for Perrin I’m sorry.. weak outcome.. Rand on the other hand.. now THAT would be a sick matchup for Paul. Carry on. =)

    • Beard

      I am so disappointed that this was the result. Anyone who has read Dune would know that this match up would be like pinning Rand Al’Thor in his prime against a kitten.

      Paul has the ability to
      – See every possible future and make them become so. (For WoT readers, he can control the pattern)
      – He can move as fast as humanly possible (literally as fast as possible, he has perfect control of his muscle nuerons and has trained from birth to master them)
      – He is one of the greatest weapon masters in a universe making his hand to hand combat already greater than Perrin.
      – He has mind control, and can mind control the people who created mind control and mastered it.
      – Took over the universe in his teenage years because thats what you do.
      – Did i mention he is a god?

    • Beard

      am so disappointed that this was the result. Anyone who has read Dune would know that this match up would be like pinning Rand Al’Thor in his prime against a kitten.

      Paul has the ability to
      – See every possible future and make them become so. (For WoT readers, he can control the pattern)
      – He can move as fast as humanly possible (literally as fast as possible, he has perfect control of his muscle nuerons and has trained from birth to master them)
      – He is one of the greatest weapon masters in a universe making his hand to hand combat already greater than Perrin.
      – He has mind control, and can mind control the people who created mind control and mastered it.
      – Took over the universe in his teenage years because thats what you do.
      – Did i mention he is a god?

    • Tarun

      I am so surprised to see so many votes for Perrin. This leads me to believe that none of those voters have ever read the Dune series at all. Anyone who has read WOT and DUNE both wouldn’t ever vote for Perrin.

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