Cage Match 2011: Quick Ben versus Perrin Aybara


The Contestants

Quick Ben.jpg

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Ben Adaephon Delat
Quick Ben
Age: Indeterminate
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Body contains twelve souls; magic
Special attack? Try special attacks. As a master of twelve warrens of magic, Ben can bring the pain in dozens of ways.

Perrin Aybara
Age: 20s
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Power-forged hammer
Battle Rage; can summon wolves

The Breakdown


  • Genius-level intelligence
  • Can access seven of his twelve warrens of magic at the same time
  • Combat-experienced

  • Supernaturally keen senses
  • Telepathic link to wolves
  • He’s T’avaren – probability and chance bend to his needs

    • Like in an interview, we think he’d answer this by saying “My only disadvantage is that I’m perhaps a bit too powerful.”

    • Unseemly codependent relationship with his wife
    • Pacifist at heart


    • Tasslehoff Burrfoot
      Curiousity killed the Kender
    • Paul Atreides
      It doesn’t matter if your eyes glow blue when they’re no life behind them
    • Martin the Warrior
      It’s almost unfathomable that a mouse would lose to a full-grown man with a giant, magical hammer…

    How we think the fight will go

    The wolves had come streaming onto the battleground from all directions, amassing in numbers akin to the legion Perrin summoned at Dumai’s Well. Except this time he had issued no such call. His brethren had come of their own volition, apparently sensing the same dark ocean of raw power that made his hackles rise as soon as he’d stepped onto the battle field, and they came in a frothing frenzy, ready to fight…and die.

    And die they did—scores at a time—torn to shreds as the ground erupted beneath them or the air exploded in a sudden towering inferno or the earth fell away into cavernous holes.

    Perrin’s mind reeled at the nightmarish scene as he blinked away burning tears and continued to chase frantically after the five men at the center of the carnage, trying desperately to land a single solid blow with his hammer.

    The five identical figures—tall, ebony-skinned, and slender—laid about the sea of wolves methodically, with quick, deliberate action and gruesome precision. These male channelers (What else could they be?) were somehow able to leap about from one place in the battle-field to another without a gateway. Wherever they pointed wolves died. All the while snapping jaws, lunging bodies, and even the swinging hammer met only air— flying right through the onyx men as if they were shades.

    At the onset Perrin got the impression he was being toyed with. These dark-skinned Dreadlords, or whatever they were, had spared him intentionally, seemingly allowing an oasis of calm in his general vicinity amidst the otherwise unbridled slaughter. Now surrounded by piles of dead and dying wolves—the muggy air thick with the stink of burnt fur and flesh threatening to gag him—he was certain they were toying with him. The panic-stricken thought enraged him, and the blood of Manetheren boiled in his veins as he redoubled his efforts in a berserker rage.

    All to no avail. Quick Ben, having assessed the situation, had seen all he needed to see. The mage reached a bit deeper into one of his open Warrens, drawing a small stream of power to cloak Perrin in one of his illusions. In the crush of harried fighting and slaughter the plan worked perfectly. The wolves, thinking a sixth enemy had suddenly materialized, turned on Perrin with ferocious abandon.

    And in seconds it was over. Quick dropped the shroud from what was left of Perrin’s mangled figure, and the forest was soon filled with the heart-wrenching, forlorn howling of dozens of wolves.

    Quick Ben surveyed the garish scene from his perch, comfortably ensconced in the dense branches of a giant redwood a quarter mile away. His look of stony concentration melted into disgust as he contemplated the fortunes that had sent a—a glorified blacksmith and a pack of wolves?—against a High Mage with access to twelve Warrens!

    His contemplation was interrupted as he caught sight of a large bearish figure detaching itself from distant shadows to stalk into the aftermath, creeping up on the baying wolves.

    Quick Ben straightened with a curse. “Hood’s Breath! I told that fool to wait and watch until I emerged!”

    Hastily the mage dropped from his roost, weaving easily through the gaps in the branches as he floated down. Once clear of the boughs he allowed gravity to take him, his cloak whipping and cracking in the oncoming rush of wind. Ten armspans from the ground, he slowed his descent and dropped lightly to the forest floor.

    “No doubt that sadistic Kalam is upset that he had no part in the battle.” Quick Ben sighed as he trudged through the woods to make sure his old friend wasn’t biting off more than he could chew.

    Predicted Winner: Quick Ben


    Check out the previous match!

    Check out the Bracket

    Quick Ben is a character from the The Malazan Book of the Fallen series by Steven Erikson; Perrin Aybarra is a character from the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson

    Quick Ben image courtesy of Michael Komarck. Perrin image courtesy of John Seamas Gallagher.

    Ndi Sampson contributed to this Cage Match

    • Jlingo

      Woo! First vote, first comment. Go Quick Ben. Perrin is okay but Quick Ben is so powerful. He can just magic in to death in the blink of an eye.

    • Terez

      Quick, Quick, Quick, Quick! WoT fans, trust me…Quick is too awesome for Perrin.

    • Adam

      I think this was the best write-up I’ve read so far. Sad to see Perrin cut down, but that’s how the fight would go I think.

      Nicely done.

    • comment man 1

      I don’t know Quick Ben, and I love WoT, but Quick Ben would win. We don’t want another travesty like the villians one where Sauron and Darth vader lost to a large man.

      Besides which, Vin looks like she will definitely win against Jon Snow, and while I am all for Perrin fighting that guy as it sounds like it would be interesting, Vin shooting a coin into Perrins head wouldn’t be. So for the sake of a more interesting final quick Ben vs Vin FTW.

    • Cloglord

      I know not of this Quick Ben, but I do know that if Perrin dies then the pattern fails, reality itself will not allow it to happen,….

    • QuickBen NEEDS to win this! Come on people vote for QB….in reality he would womp Perrin’s whiney butt!

    • Reechter

      The writeup felt a little… anti-climactic. There wasn’t much action going on. “And then he died. LOL.”

    • Jeffstu

      I don’t know about Quick Ben, he would probably beat Perrin but it would not be like this. This is the one of the worst write ups because Perrin and the wolfs would not be fooled by an illusion. The wolfs definitely would not be tricked into killing Perrin. But I have to support Perrin, he has more going for him than just being a big man and it would be awesome to see to characters that Sanderson is writing to be in the finals.

    • I agree with Jeffstu. Illusion would not effect either Perrin or the Wolves, because of their sense of smell, and experience with Tel’aran’rhiod. However, Quick Ben would still win. For that matter, Perrin stood no chance against Mau’dib either. What I would like to see is a tag team cage match from a bunch of series. Let Rand, Perrin and Mat go up against other series. Perrin and Mat would just be toast in these contests by themselves. They’d be toast fighting Elayne and Egwene for crying out loud.

    • Turning the wolves against him would be easy for a man who has access to 12 warrens and can wield 7 of them at once.

      Sorry, Perrin would die like the little whiney Faile-groveling twit he is, and in this fashion too, cause QB wouldn’t just want to defeat Perrin…he’d want to beat him by turning one of his own strengths against him….classic QB strategy.


    • Aelthain

      The Wolf gods Togg and Fanderay gave up fighting for a while in The Crippled God when they realized that humans will be better at killing everything, including other humans, than the wolves ever will. Therefore, I guess they’ll just ask the wolves and Perrin to stand down and let Quick take on Vin.

      Furthermore, Quick doesn’t muck around like Perrin – he stands up to Icarium, the gate to Chaos, for goodness sake! No Aiel is gonna kidnap Quick’s wife and be able to keep her for that long unless Quick planned it…

      Finally, I have every single WoT and Malazan book and I know for sure it’s the latter that is worth its weight in gold and re-reads.

    • Mehndeke

      Perrin stepped away from the gateway, Neald close behind, and watched as his camp cut from view. Before him, the White Tower stood, majestic against the clouded sky, almost daring the clouds to assault what the Seanchan had failed to fell.

      “No two ways about it Neald, you don’t have to come with me into this den. With the number of sisters present, I wouldn’t blame you, either.”

      “I’ve followed you too far to back down now, Perrin. A few women in shawls don’t bother me none.”

      “Very well then, lets be about it.” Perrin growled, taking the first step into Tar Valon, and to the Amyrlin Seat.

      It was a short walk from where the gateway had closed to the base of the tower. Neald had placed them atop a roof in the center of town, a single story building with easy access to the ground. As they stepped into the street, Perrin noticed a strange shift in the crowd. Here and there, scattered throughout, individuals stopped and stared at them while the sea of people continued unabated. Perrin noticed that each face that stopped bore the ageless features of an Aes Sedai. “Into the lion’s den, indeed,” spoke Perrin. Neald only strode forward in agreement.

      It took some time at the tower gate to gain admittance with Neald at his side. Perrin wagered that the only reason they even let him in were the eight sisters that followed them in. While he couldn’t see the shield surrounding Neald, he knew it was there by the change in Neald’s breathing, by the change in stature, and the pained way he walked. And it was a long walk up to the chambers of the Amyrlin Seat.

      When he first saw her, Perrin hardly recognized the woman he had seen in the wolf dream. Egwene had changed so much from the last time he had seen her. Where had the scared girl in the woods gone? Where had the young woman with braided hair left behind her childhood? The mantle of power rested on her now, and it was heavy in the air.

      “Perrin,” Egwene said, “I’ve been meaning to talk with you since we saw each other last.” Perrin grunted, knowing she meant the wolf dream.

      “That’s exactly what I intend to talk to you about Egwene, but in private, if you will.” Perrin responded, glancing at the eight sisters still surrounding Neald and himself.

      “You are dismissed.” Egwene stated. “I’ll maintain the shield myself, all will be well here.” Perrin watched the shocked faces of the Aes Sedai around him, could smell their surprise at Egwene’s statement. Their protests were in vain, however, as Egwene permitted no declaration of caution to dissuade her. Eventually, the last sister left, and Neald sighed in relief as the tension drained from his face.

      “I am certain I have no need for this shield, sir Asha’man.” Egwene stated clearly.

      “No, Mother, you do not,” Neald replied.

      “Egwene I need your help.” Perrin said, as Egwene breathed in to begin talking. “There’s little time to explain, and less time to do anything in. Do you remember, last year, when Rand was taken from us to fight in some light cursed tournament? Well, it seems those Suvudu dogs have done it again, only I’m the one under the hammer this time.”

      Egwene’s scent went from frustration to horror at the mere mention of those Suvudu shadowfriends. All she could muster was a quiet “Oh no, Perrin.”

      “Look,” said Perrin, “I know you know about the wolf dream. I know you know how to get in and out. I need your help getting someone else in. I’ve talked with those I trust and I know there’s a way to do it, but they won’t teach me how.” Perrin carefully spoke around how he knew about the dream, and was careful to avoid mention of the wolves or Hopper as he spoke. “It’s simple Egwene. I’m going up against a man as powerful as Rand tomorrow. I’m going to fail. I have no chance in this fight, and both he and I know it. Rand would stand a shot, but I don’t have a prayer. I need to know if you can bring him into the dream.”

      “Perrin, what you ask is forbidden. It is evil. I can’t help you.” Anguish rolled from Egwene as she spoke. “I know how, but to do so… Perrin, I’m sorry. I can’t help you.”

      “Then I die and Rand goes to the Last Battle without me Egwene. Do you really want that? Can the world stand that? I have no choice, I fight this man tomorrow. If I have to, I’ll make a deal with the Dark One himself to be at Rand’s side. But I cannot do it alone. I need you Egwene.”


      Quick Ben awoke from his restless nights sleep to find himself in a barren field. “Is this the battleground for my fight with the blacksmith?” he thought. For that matter, how had the Suvudu gods managed to get him here without his knowledge? Where was here? The land was washed out, almost pale, with the sky a dreary death above him. “A fitting place for death, I suppose,” he thought as he gathered in his surroundings.

      Though he was expecting something strange to happen, the appearance of the man and woman still startled him. The man, a hulking beast of a man, stood approximately fifty paces away, next to a much smaller woman in white. She wore a color striped shawl around her shoulders. “So, the Suvudu gods bring us here to fight.” Ben thought, watching as the woman glanced from him to the blacksmith.

      “I’ve done what is needed.” she said, glancing from Ben to the man. “Do what you have to.” And then she disapeared. Ben felt no magical energies in her departure, only an absence as she suddenly was gone. “No matter,” Ben thought. “I’m not here to fight Suvudu. Yet. This man, however…” Ben glanced at the blacksmith. His shoulders were wider than any he had seen, and at his side hung a large, silver hammer. A warrior then.

      “Give up now, blacksmith, and I may make this quick and painless.” Ben called to the beast of a man. “I’ve fought and defeated some of the most powerful wizards and mages in all the lands, and a warrior, no matter how powerful or well armed, stands no chance against me.”


      Perrin could smell the arrogance wafting from his opponent as the wind brought it to him. He could also smell the power. “I’ve only got one chance at this.” he thought. “One chance to end it before he realizes all isn’t as it seems.” Focusing on the air behind the mage, Perrin called out to him. “No chance? Perhaps where you’re from darkfriend, but here, you are in my power.” And then he moved.


      The man was a fighter, but he too had vanished? He was told that the man only carried a hammer. Perhaps there would be a wolf or two, but this man knew magic! Did he have his own demons to pull from? Where once the man had stood, only grass remained. “Well, this may be interesting after -.”


      Perrin finished his downstroke, smashing the body of the mage into the ground where he stood. From above and behind, the broken body of Quick Ben held no foreboding to him now. “This is all a dream.” Perrin said. “But what happens in this dream can kill you too. And you’re just as dead in the waking world.”

      With the smell of fresh blood hanging in the air, Perrin stepped from the dream and back into the Amyrlin’s study.

    • Quick Ben would chew Perrin up. But the Wot crowd will go to extreme lengths to deny and such outcome. Reminds me of the Monty Python dead Perrin, er parrot skit.

      “This is an ex-Perrin!”

    • Fayth

      Quick Ben would win, no doubt about it. It’s not really a fair match, but what can you do.

    • Shadow’sBane

      Awesome Writeup..

    • @mehedeke

      QuickBen would never talk like that. Ever.

      Nor would he be startled by their appearance…he’d know they were coming miles away…Having the kind of access to the warrens QB does puts him 84 steps ahead of Perrin.

      Sorry, the write up is one sided wishful thinking.

    • I’m a huge WOT fan (as well as MBotF), but come on. If WOT wins this year as well I’m boycotting Cage Match. 🙂

    • Enrique

      Well, to be honest, if Parin was allowed to enter the dream, as the other guy suggested, he would rape Quick Ben in moments. On the other hand, if he was not, then it would be an interesting fight. I believe that Parin’s hammer has a lot more to do with things than anything else. But, Quick is a beast, so I would put my bets on him in the real world.

    • Quick Ben stood on the windswept plain and waited. This infernal cage match was starting to get more serious. Not that he worried. The last few contenders didn’t even really make him sweat.

      A blackened gate opened in midair a number of feet away from him and a cumbersome man with a giant hammer stumped out of it, followed by a dark-haired woman.

      “Faile, wait here” the man said and started forward.

      “I will not Perrin Aybara! I will do as I please!” and stopping her husband with a look and a sniff she began to walk up to Quick Ben who cocked an eyebrow at her, amused. “See here wizard, if you want to fight my husband you will have to…”

      Quick Ben quickly opened a warren that looked like a muddy rusty landscape overlapping this one, grabbed Faile and threw her in, closing the tear in the air behind her.

      “Now that the unpleasantness is out of the way, what say he get to this boy.” Quick Ben chuckled.

      “What did you do? Where did you send her? FAILE!” Perrin yelped. “Get her back, open that gate!”

      “If you insist.” And the gate yawned open again and Perrin blundered in looking for his wife. Quick Ben grunted confusedly and then silently closed the gate.

      A coalescing of shadows and a non descript form waded out, cane tapping ground below. “You test me Ben Adephon Delat, and that had better not be what I think it was. What warren was that?”

      “I think you know old man.” Quick Ben stated flatly.

      A giggle and then a stern look “Not shadow. No, too easy. Hood’s realm? Probably not. Where then, where indeed?” Shadowthrone asked aloud.

      “Let him fight dragons with his big hammer.” Quick Ben said.

      “Ha! You play a dangerous game mage. Indeed. Just so.” And with a whirl of shadows the god disappeared.

      “Crazy old codger. Now, where in hood’s hairy balls did Kalam get to?” Quickben opened his favourite warren and disappeared.

    • Erunion

      😀 That’s the exact same solution I came up with, as being the only way Perrin could out-gun Quick Ben.
      @ Everyone who doesn’t know WOT,
      Perrin and some of the WOT characters have access to another plane of existence, Tel’Aran’Rhiod, the World of Dreams. There, you are able to bend reality to your will. Perrin has, for example, simply undone magical things while in T’A’R. If they managed to get Quick Ben into T’A’R (and there are ways, one of which Mehndeke provided), he would be absolutely screwed. Perrin or Egwene would be able to literally break his mind, without him knowing what was going on. Worse, he wouldn’t know how he got to where he was. He would simply arrive in the middle of a strange-looking field, without any memory or knowledge of how he got there.

      Still, I’m not going to vote on this round. Without him being pulled into T’A’R first, Quick Ben would brutalize poor Perrin.

      +, I don’t want to see a Perrin/Vin fight! Either Vin/Quick Ben or Jon/Perrin, but not Perrin/Vin. It would just be….

    • Sean

      I’ve read both series, but I’m just going for Perrin, period. Mainly because I want him to fight Jon snow, thats if Snow can beat Vin.

    • @Sean….err…you realize Vin’s lead on Jon Snow is like a completely insurmountable doubling of his votes right? That match is a wash. Vin shellacked Snow.

      Now vote for Quick Ben damn you! LOL

      Perrin is the least cool character from WoT…like ever.

    • Cicero

      @Sean: There is almost no chance that Snow will pull back even with Vin, meaning if Perrin wins we have two Sanderson characters in the finals. To whoever said upthread that it would be “really cool” to see two Sanderson characters in the last round, I just have to say, that’s incredibly stupid. About 95% of the reason I follow this at all is because of the chance to see authors I enjoy sounding off on the match-ups and offering their perspective on characters created by their peers. I can read a blog post by Brandon Sanderson speculating about Perrin vs. Vin any time, making (for me at least) the whole exercise rather pointless.

      @Scott: Awesome write-up.

    • James

      i will vote perrin everytime he battles just because he is the only char i know besides Zed, who has already been beatn

    • Sosei

      The opportunity Perrin would beat Ben in a one-on one scenario (assuming he isn’t in T’A’R) would be if he had Mat’s Foxhead Medallion (or one of the copies, and yes, i assume it negates magic in general and not just weaving).

    • J4yn1ck5

      Warden shmordens. They don’t mean shit against a ta’veren in the wolf dream.

    • @J4yn1ck5

      Clearly you have never read REAPERS GALE or DUST OF DREAMS.

      ta’veren…pshaw….whatever dude. wolf dream? My boy is a soletaken and would shapeshift and tear your wifeys-boy Perrin to shreds.

    • Anon

      Oh fuck off. Perrin winning this? I’m a massive fan of both series, in fact I prefer WOT to Malzan I think but that’s just a terrible result.

    • Chris

      Guys, don’t give Brandon Sanderson a headache and vote for Perrin, the last thing he needs is Vin, his own character, against Perrin, a character that he is responsible for, hes said as much in his blog. Besides, Perrin wouldn’t stand a chance.

      @Scott: The wolf dream, TAR as we abbreviate it, is a place where belief becomes reality, if Quick didn’t know how the place worked then his powers would be useless, Perrin would simply have to believe it and he would be powerless. Either way though I doubt the battle would take place in TAR, so Perrin is toast.

    • trench

      If this fight were in TAR Perrin could beat all 31 of the other contestants at the same time. But its not, Quick will destroy the blacksmith, and he may deserve it for that whole 4 book friggin melodrama with Fail

    • Probably Not Batman

      Perrin stood above the curious mage as he investigated the Palace Gardens in Tel’Aran’Rhiod’s version of Caemlyn. Bringing his opponent into the World of Dreams, especially as Egwene’s disgust matched his own, had sickened him, but there was no other possible option. Not compared to the fate of the world. Not against losing Faile. The thin man, the darkest he’d ever seen, walked around seemingly unconcerned with the oddness of his surroundings. He couldn’t possibly know how to act in this place, and Perrin intended to make sure he never would. He took a breath, lifted his hammer, and moved.

      The hammer hissed wildly through the empty air and Perrin recoiled in shock. He was not where he’d wanted to move, he was nowhere he recognised. An endless plain surrounded him, stretching for leagues in every direction, the ever unfamiliar sky of Tel’Aran’Rhiod meeting it at the horizon. He shook his head at his mistake, and jumped back to Caemlyn.

      The plain still lay before him, but now a spark of light was visible far in the distance. Perrin grunted in surprise. He had no idea what was happening, unless this was the mage, but how could he have expected this from his foe? Gritting his teeth, he fixated his attention on the Palace and jumped once more.

      “Ah, Friend Kruppe has a guest at his campfire! Another hulking brute with oversized hammer, but preferably of better temperament than other such monoliths of his vast and companiable acquaintance, one hopes.”

      Perrin whirled, taken aback by the short round man merrily scoffing on cakes by the blazing flames, the only feature of these damnable grasslands he was stuck in.

      “What by the Light is going on here?”
      “Is it not obvious? Friend Kruppe is enjoying brunch! Feasting on these tantalizing honeycakes and biscuits which alas, you may not partake. However the warmth of Kruppe’s fire, carefully constructed under his exquisite direction by faithful mule is welcome to you.”
      “Is this still in the wolf dream?”
      “Wolf dream? Is Kruppe a wolf, now? Slavering jaws, noiseless feet, of course! But jests aside, Kruppe is sadly too polite and delicate to be a wolf,” the figure said, smearing another honeyed desert into his mouth without pause, “Yet this dream is still his.”
      “What? That’s-”
      The man interrupted, his previous air of jolity gone utterly. “The errant mage those poltroons at Suvudu bade you battle in brutal bloodshed (agh, how it pains Kruppe to be forced to alliteration) is a noble and trusted friend of Kruppe, just as he is of said mage! Indeed, we are blood brothers and closer than each other’s wives, if we were married and if friend Delat did not want my blood. Also, said mage still has not fully reimbursed Kruppe for previous games of chance Kruppe lawfully and legally won outright and fairly. Alas, yet again, Kruppe must protect his inter-”

      Perrin had stood mesmerised at the bewildering torrent of words spewing forth from the stranger – if only Mat could have been here, he’s have taken his hat off in respect – but he couldn’t afford to wait any longer. In a flash, he was behind the figure, hammer raised high-

      Two hooves smashed into his back, driving the wind from him and bowling him over. Perrin rolled twice in the grass and looked back, wheezing at the sheer force of the blows. A mule stood behind the seated figure, sleepy eyes fixated on Perrin as Kruppe waved a hand. “Such rudeness as to interrupt friend Kruppe’s stated intent of stating his intent! Sadly, your errant actions drive me to that most hated foe of mine, the foul demon Brevity. Friend Adephon Ben Delat’s dreams are his, and yours will be yours. Kruppe wishes you luck tomorrow, and bids you good night.” The mule brayed, and Perrin woke in his bed, back aching with pain and a cake in his hand.


      And then Quick Ben threw Perrin into Telas, the Warren of Fire,

      The End.

      (I need to work on my Kruppe and my endings, I suppose)

    • Pruthvish

      Ok well i’v read both series. Now QB does have a lot of power hidden up within him and so on so forth. All well and fine. But, he is still a human with NORMAL senses. If Perrin truly had to fight him he would have the wolves scout the area first. While doing that the wolves would be sure to come across QB hidden away and would annihilate him without him even noticing it. Also Perrin’s hammer has some magical properties of it’s own (unrevealed so far) , as it has been forged using a combination of emotions as well as the One Power. So for all we know he may be able to use it to deflect any magic thrown used against him or even use it in the way the Sword “Farslayer” can be used in Fred Saberhagen’s “The Lost Swords: The Second Triad” .

    • @Pruthvish

      Um. Wherever did you get the idea that Quick Ben was human? He’s at the very least soletaken (first off) and secondly as of DoD and TcG I would wager saying he may be Andii in disguise might not be far off the mark.

      Just cause he’s in human skin doesn’t make him human. Sorry.

      And what you all forget is that QB is WAY smarter than Perrin. Even if they were in the wolf dream, QB would be well aware of how the place worked beforehand. He’d mop the floor with Perrin.

      Magic hammer. Pshaw. Unless that hammer is made of otataral it’s no contest..and even then QB would probably find a way.

    • Griff Edur

      I was a massive fan of WoT (still am)
      But Quick Ben is far far beyond the capabilities of Perrin, I know he’s big and can cut down trees with one swing……. But Quick would rival Rand

      Does anyone think that Perrin could beat Rand?… No! He couldn’t.

      So lets all put this into perspective and just vote Quick Ben
      Thank you so much for your time.

    • MrIzzy

      I voted for Quick Ben, but I have a serious issue with the write-up. Wolves, focused as they are on smell, would not be fooled by an illusion.

    • @MrIzzy

      You say that like Quick’s illusion wouldn’t have a smell aspect to it. You continue to think 2 dimensionally…and that…is why you fail.


    • Polarbear

      I agree with every other person here, TAR=Periin, non TAR=Quick Ben…im not disputing that, im voting for perrin becuz i havent read the other series and perrin is like my 2nd favorite to mat of course, but from the other writeups ive read, the series that quick ben comes from just sounds creepy, there laughing and talking mid fight and its just odd, so maybe i need to read the series? idk, but go perrin, haha

    • Stuff

      I’ve read both Malazan and WoT religiously, and this really isn’t a contest. Quick Ben would destroy Perrin. Too bad this is more of a popularity contest than a real “who would win” battle.

    • Dunno

      Perrin’s winning? Bullshit. I’m sorry, but bullshit. We all know that Quick Ben is far more powerful, and there’s no way in heaven or earth Perrin could beat him. Thank you. Just to get that out of the way before I address the real issue here.

      No, it would NOT be cool to have a Sanderson-exclusive cage match. Are you serious? Sanderson won last year. Sanderson even managed to steal the thunder of the “Villains” cage match, because Suvudu randomly tossed Rand back in for a championship round. How many times are we going to have Sanderson win this thing?

      Answer: apparently at least one more time. Even if Quick Ben somehow beats Perrin here, we’re going to get a massive backlash from WoT fans wailing “NOOOOOO, must AVENGE!”, so Vin will take it. That said, are we, on top of all this Sanderson love, going to make the final cage match between TWO OF HIS CHARACTERS?

      For God’s sake. I’m sorry, but not only does that rob all suspense and fun out of it, but it’s basically electing Sanderson god of fantasy. And I apologize to all of the video game fans who found they could finally read a book when they picked up Sanderson, really, but while he’s a fun, fast-paced, easily palatable author, he doesn’t hold a candle to the greats of the genre, not yet. Who are those greats, exactly? Uh…oh yeah, Martin and Erikson, who adorn the top of pretty much every Best Modern Fantasy list ever constructed.

      Quick Ben wins. End of story. /rant

    • Aero182

      Man, I’m stuck here. On the One hand, Perrin is just a blacksmith. A BLACKSMITH!!! He’s not some uber powerful being that could have killed the people he faced so far. Also, I don’t like that he killed Martin, since he’s been with me since childhood, and I want to avenge him. On the other hand, I don’t like wizards, especially the overly powerful ones. They have no place in this contest, since they dominate all the non-magical people and an author who makes a powerful person with no restraints like that is a terrible author, then there is no major conflicts, just poof, and there’s no reason the uber-powerful guy shouldn’t do that.

    • Quick Bonita

      This is so not a fair fight lol. I love the Malazan Book of the Fallen and WoT both, and I even like Perrin even though he has spent most of the series whining, but there is NO way that Perrin can defeat Quick Ben even in TAR! Assuming Quick Ben hadn’t known about TAR in advance, and being underprepared is way out of character so he would have, he is brilliant and would recognize immediately the potential of TAR and be able to manipulate it way better than Perrin ever could! QB FTW!!!

    • Amy

      WHyyyyyyy! I love both ;_;

      Oh and SUVUDU you have the most arcane looking captcha ever!

    • Jeri

      I wanna see…

      Jon Snow vs. Perrin in an awesome 3rd place match!

      (So the “more powerful” characters get their fair win here, and we still get that WoT-aSoIaF wolf smackdown!)

    • zonine

      Denying Perrin access to Tel’Aranrhiod for this fight is sort of like saying Quick can’t access his Warrens. And like someone else pointed out, the wolves won’t be fooled by illusions, nor in the least bit deterred by their target being a small distance away. Perrin can and should win this fight.

    • ZetaStriker

      Yeah, agreed. To be fair, even T’A’R isn’t necessarily a win for Perrin; Quick’s soul-strings should give him a quick escape back to the waking world if he’s go Kalam with him, and then it’s just a matter of roasting the sleeping Blacksmith.

      As for the people posting narratives where Quick Ben gloats and warns and asks for mercy . . . that’s the sort of thing Perrin does. Quick is actually known for blasting people in mid-speech. He’s called Quick Ben for a reason, and he doesn’t play fair.

    • Macready


      Clearly you’ve never read The Malazan Book of the Fallen, because despite how powerful some of the mages are in the series they quite often get their asses handed to them by lowly soldiers. Hell, even the high up gods run into trouble with characters who merely use their intelligence to manipulate them.

      That said, clearly this match will be won by fan support only. Something that can be said about most of the matches he’s won, unlike QB who actually as the intelligence and power to back up his votes.

      As for the whole TAR scenario that entire premise falls on the idea that Perrin has had time to manipulate the match beforehand, and if you should know anything about QB it’s the fact that he’s always one step ahead of his opponents. Just throwing him into battle is one thing, but giving him time before it starts would help him challenge gods.

    • Dubs

      Want to believe Perrin would win. Could come up with a few fancy scenarios in which it could come true. But out of a thousand matchups, Quick Ben would likely find many more ways to win than Perrin, and I’m starting to feel guilty about my Perrin popular vote…

    • Kah-thurak

      It’s kind of sad really. I guess some people would vote for Olver against whomever just because they like WoT most or simply havent read the other series. But well, it was to be expected.

    • Fishsticks

      I honestly want to see Vin vs Quick Ben in the finals.

      I think it would be far more entertaining than “Guy with hammer and some wolves” vs “Guy with sword and…another wolf”.

      But hey, that’s just me.

    • Ben


      The whole T’A’R idea is flawed: Perrin doesn’t know how to pull people into the World of Dreams. And since non-Dreamers touch T’A’R only briefly and rarely, he’d have to somehow to know exactly when and where Quick was going to appear (for the seconds that he’d be there). If you allow him Egwene to help, then Scott’s argument that Kruppe would step in to stop him is perfectly valid. In fact, the argument that Quick could use Kalam as a soul anchor to pull himself back to his own world is also valid. Or Quick could call in his favor with Hood, the God of Death. Quick has always got a shaved knuckle in the hole.

      Thanks for the vote for Quick, though. If Perrin’s fans can’t figure out a way to have him beat Quick without help in a way that is consistent with Perrin’s actual abilities in the Wheel of Time, then they admit that, though they vote for Perrin, Quick Ben is truly the superior character. Every argument for Perrin that I see is phrased like, “Well, if he had Mat’s medallion”, or “If he had everything his way”. That’s why I know that even hardcore Perrin fans acknowledge Quick Ben’s superiority: none of Quick’s fans need make excuses or stretch the lore to allow for his victory.

    • Jason

      Seriously next time can we just rename it the ‘SUVUDU popularity contest’? thats all it is anyway

    • Jabber

      GRRM and WoT fanboys just su@%!!!! You have to vote for your Twilight like poster boys!! Curse them!!!!!

    • heydunno

      @ Dunno (cuz you def don’t)

      Perrin & Rand are DEFINITELY not Sanderson’s creation. He is building upon the shoulder’s of a giant. Get it right.

      Disallowing Perrin’s control of T’Land is like taking quick bens magic. Just an accurate observation. Can’t take away the tools at a character’s disposal and make it a decent match

    • riggor

      welcome to sour grapes city

      Where even though your guy is losing you can spew venemous bile all over everybody, while you sit behind your computer. Why have a discussion when you can just be hateful.

      Lets hear it for spiteful rehetoric, its brought us all so much.

    • Michael Carey

      Illusionary he may be, but did he account for their sense of smell? A few misses and the cautious-thinking blacksmith will begin to consider the trap in a new light.

    • archon


      Yes… it’s brought us almost as much as blind popular voting has… I see Obama’s numbers are at a record low… You’d think people would have learned from the last election when they voted with blind popularity… or the one before that, or the one before that, ect… Most of the kids on here will certsainly keep that cycle going when they are old enough to vote for real…

    • riggor

      Hey pal your taking this a bit to seriously, calm dow.

    • archon


      Nope… The outcome of this doesn’t matter at all to anyone… including me… but the patterns of behavior are all too familiar…

      And as I recall, you were the one lamenting about hate and spitefulness… doesn’t matter, so why concern yourself with it?

    • Josepe

      Now I love me the Wot, and I like Perrin alot. BUT there is simply no way he could defeat Quick Ben. As weird as it sounds to say this, be “realistic”.

    • Fayth


      No it isn’t like that. Perrin can’t pull someone into the dream, he doesn’t know how. You can’t just let him get help from other characters, or like others have posted, we could just have QB get help from Kruppe or Kalam or many others. This is a 1 on 1 fight.

    • Shane

      Again people, this is a popularity contest. I know the Malazan (I spell that right?) series is good and popular. But not as popular as WoT. So Perrin is most likely going to win this. And as Vin is stomping Jon Snow into the ground its going to be Perrin VS. Vin it seems.

    • Justin

      i love you archon, the fact that you can sit there and whine over something so trivial and has little to no meaning is awsome *thumbs up* LMFAO

      get a life

    • Archon

      Ahhh Justin…

      Another hater who can’t argue the facts that he doesn’t like and has to resort to personal attacks… Fact is Justin, the whole point of these matches (as mentioned by the Suvudu gods in their original format) is to create intriging matchups that people can’t contemplate, discuss, and debate with other fans… I’m really looking for a good debate about one of these matches, so I provide counter-points to the people who say things like “Perring would win because he is Ta’veren”… when I smash that point as completely invalid, I get insulted because you you don’t like it but you can’t come up with a valid counter-point to respond with… when you figure out how to debate like an adult, come see me…

    • Archon

      Again Shane…

      It is NOT a popularity contest… you and your fanboys that vote accordingly are certainly entitled to do so, just like if you decide that the presidential vote is a vote for the candidate with the funniest voice and you vote accordingly… it doesn’t change the fact that it is still the presidential vote… this is not designed as a popularity contest… otherwise, they would not put up comparible combat attributes and do a combat-based write up for each match… they would simply list the characters and say “who do you like more?” Of course is suits your favorite to try and convince people that it’s a popularity contest, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not…

    • Fox

      Ok, to start, I have to say that I am a huge fan of BOTH serieses, and all THREE authors (counting Sanderson and Jordan separately).

      For those of you who don’t know Malazan, I can understand why you would vote for Perrin, and there really isn’t anything I can say to change your minds. Just know, that Quick Ben is one of the strongest, and smartest, wizards in a world full of magic and gods. Saying Perrin will beat him is like saying Perrin would beat Rand. It’s just ludicrous.

      I’m curious to know if there is anyone out there who has actually read both books, and really thinks that Perrin could win?

    • comment man 1

      I honsetly wonder if the reason Perrin is so far ahead, while I still believe he would be winning, is that he is misrepresented and dying in such a lame way. If he fought as hard as he could and died no matter what it would have been different, but I think the write up may be getting rage votes agianst Ben. It wouldn’t happend that way
      a) because Perrin isn’t stupid, and wouldn’t continue to try and attack men that his hammer has passed through, he knows about, or is at least suspicious enough to suspect, illusions.
      b) The woves would smell it was Perrin, and so wouldn’t attack him. For those who say quick Ben would replicate it… how? He doesn’t have a sharp sense of smell like a wolf so wouldn’t know what Perrin smelt like to eliminate it or make his own illusions have a scent, and if he does have such a thing (he might, I haven’t read the series) the wolves will be able to sense its Perrin through their minds, or he can just tell them its him.

      I’m just speculating, I may be completely wrong and this write up got QB more votes. I still voted for Quick Ben because I thought he would win from what I have heard of him. The results so far though make me wonder if I should have voted for John snow over Vin, I would truly feel cheated to see read the final write up only to discover it was Vin blasting coin sized holes in Perrin and his wolf friends.

    • Polarbear

      I don’t know this Quick Ben character as I’ve stated before, but this matchup convinced me to go buy book 1 of the Malazan series, its tricky to understand so far (im on like chapter 3), but WoT was the same way at first, so far its a decent read, not nearly as much detail as I’m used to, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing…not sure what that has to do with the cage fight, but everyone else is fighting, so lets talk about the books some? haha

    • Aelthain

      I have read both series and own every single book. MBotF is worth its weight in gold and re-reads. Can’t really say the same about WoT after book 5 or 6…

      MBotF is great just for all the times it’s made me cry and reflect on life and I honestly can’t say that for most other books.

      Aside from that, I would argue from a more “realistic” perspective that Quick Ben will win. If anyone has read The Crippled God, the Gods of War – the wolves Fanderay and Togg – realised eventually that humans will forever be more efficient at killing than wolves will ever be. Therefore, they have ceded the field to allow humans to exterminate each other. If Perrin is true to the wolf within him, he will recognise the futility of further conflict and allow Quick Ben to fight it out with Vin. Let the humans kill each other eventually.

      Of course, I’d expect Quick to also understand the futility of these contests given his intelligence and compassion. But that’s probably another story…

    • Polarbear

      I could definitely seeing Perrin just forfeiting to stay alive and be with Faile, he saved Tas’ life earlier in the tournament right? So you don’t HAVE to die, so thats probably how this one would end. It goes with the earlier write up where he mentioned the suvudu gods placing him in this tournament, if we go with that write up, he realises this is all a sport, and he probably wouldn’t participate.

    • Justin

      ““Perring would win because he is Ta’veren”… when I smash that point as completely invalid, I get insulted because you you don’t like it but you can’t come up with a valid counter-point to respond with”

      why is it invalid? because you dont like it thats all, and as to counter points ive never seen you provide anything i would call “constructive” in a debate your blinded by your own sence of superiority, you point that everyone else is wrong yet cant accept that there appears to be more people who think your wrong.

      all you really should be posting is that you think QB will win why you think he will win and thats all, these constant streams of temper tantrums because you cant get your own way is amusing yet totally out of place here you dont like WOT fine, i think Dune had to be one of the lamest series ever written but i respect the fact that there are people out there who do like it and thats great for them.

    • Shadow’sBane

      @Archon, Dunno and Other Whining Morons…

      u all Whine even more than Perrin…….
      all that Whining and Bitching here is not gonna make Quick Ben Win…..Go rally MBotF Fanbase and get People to Vote…Idiots…Talking here isnr gonna Make any Bloody Difference in the votes.

      Perrin can Beat Quick Ben Easily in Tel’anth’Rhoid(TAR)…..Perrin is powerful enough to do that…though I agree that he will have to take Egwene’s help to Pull Quick Ben PHYSICALLY into the T’A’R….but inorder kill sumone in T’A’R u don’t need to Pull him PHYSICALLY into it….Perrin can easily pull Quick Ben into Perrin’s own Dream hence completely over powering him..

      U seriously don’t Know any thing..
      WoT is Among the Top Ten In best Fantasy series….Its a step above ASoIaF.

    • Manetheren


      1. You are being just as spiteful and rude as anyone else here. You are all but calling everyone voting for Perrin idiots and “inferior”. Next time, remember you say a lot more about yourself than you think, especially with what you imply in your comments.

      2. You continue to insult others by saying that the people voting for Perrin vote blindly in a national executive level election. WHAT IDIOT ASSUMES THAT ANYONE WILL VOTE THE SAME WAY IN A FUN CONTEST AS THEY WOULD IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION? That is rude, defamatory, and down right childish! That is a huge insult to us and i EXPECT an apology for this comment.

      3. This is a simple for fun contest, stop taking it so seriously. You said it, it doesn’t matter who wins, so why are you getting mad?

      4. You accuse others of resorting to personal attacks against you first. While in fact you never were arguing about who was going to win, but instead insulted all Perrin supporters with i quote “You’d think people would have learned from the last election when they voted with blind popularity… or the one before that, or the one before that, ect… Most of the kids on here will certsainly keep that cycle going when they are old enough to vote for real…”. This was from your first comment. See, you started calling people names and when you were called out on it what did you say? Oh here i quote again “Another hater who can’t argue the facts that he doesn’t like and has to resort to personal attacks…” Lets see who started the personal attacks? Either become civil, apologize, and take this as a game or don’t come back.

      Wait a minute! Don’t children get upset over loosing?

    • The Impartial One

      I haven’t read the Malazan series yet, so I’m not going to argue much points here. I’m quite very well aware that you can’t do that well without understanding both characters. But…. What’s to say they aren’t fighting in TAR? (world of dreams). Because, well… perrin can do pretty much whatever he wants in there. But again, I haven’t read Malazan, so won’t argue the point.

    • Yocxl

      Archon –

      Yeah, I’m responding to old comments. Just saw them. If you don’t like it, meh.

      Where would the fun be in this match if it was all about thinking logically who would win? Some of the matches are incredibly unbalanced, so many matches would pretty much be predetermined. If you think logically, Paul Atreides would probably take this entire tournament. You would’ve been able to call it from the beginning, since he’s a god or whatever, I don’t read Dune so I don’t know. Where’s the fun in that if one person is significantly more powerful than everybody else? And Martin the Warrior would’ve gotten eliminated first round, since he’s, you know, a mouse. Vin vs. Jon Snow would be predetermined, Vin would absolutely destroy Jon if prepared with metals to burn.

      Same with the first one… Cthulhu probably should’ve destroyed everybody. MAYBE Rand would’ve had a chance, but Jaime Lannister would’ve gotten completely destroyed.

      Where’s the fun in just thinking logically about it and voting based on that? This is a SFF FAN site. Why shouldn’t you just vote for your favorite character? Make it so the results aren’t guaranteed to go one way?

      If it must be logical, why not balance out the characters a bit more? Like, you know, not having crippled knights in the same tourney as Great Old Ones and ta’veren channelers, not having eight-year-olds and office workers in the same tournament as Sith lords and 8-foot-tall freaks of nature, not have mice and Kenders in the same match as Mistborn and… whatever the hell Paul Atreides is…

      So ridiculous.

    • Archon

      @ Fox

      lol Careful now… you’re getting dangerously close to asking people to make valid arguments for Perrin to win… they get real testy around here when you do that 😉

    • Archon


      You need to go way back through the posts before you comment… you are coming into the middle of an argument thinking you know what you’re talking about and you have no clue… start at the beginning of the cage match if you want to see the progression… I was simply pointing out the glaring flaws in some people’s arguments and it escalated from there… as the (really) old saying goes; “don’t be gettin all up in other people’s kool aid if you don’t even know what flavor it is…”

      you are so off base with your comments, it’s a crime…

      @ Shadow’s Bane

      You need to read the Malazan series before you start slingling around words like “Moron” while you are in the process of making yourself a prime example of one… ZERO chance that Perrin everreverreverrever pulls quick Ben into T’A’R’ by himself… you might as well suggest that Ny’naeve would beat Perrin in an arm wrestling contest with no magical help.


      As I have said several times and many people seem to not be able to comprehend… look back through the threads… there have been a number of people who have come right out and said “I voted for so-and-so because I just like them better.” I have not trashed these people at all… and I’ve said time and again that it is everyone’s perogative to vote exactly how they wish… I simply look for a good debate on the matters (as is part of the stated hopes for the Suvudu people in hosting these cage-matches), so when I see somebody making a completely invalid argument for somebody, I call them out on it… unfortunately, there are not a lot of people who can back up their BS against my arguments, and even fewer who can handle being proven wrong…

    • Manetheren


      Thank you for making a point that i thought was painful obvious, but apparently some people don’t get. Every word of yours rings true a thousand times over.

      @ Archon
      I still want an apology, but i know it’s rather hard for the foolishly proud to bend their neck and admit they were wrong. Takes someone of real character to do that.

    • I’ve done a few things. Gotten the word out.

      Now all you WoT fans….


      Watch as your world crumbles.

      Quick Ben FTW!

    • Shiara

      I’ve read both, and I KNOW Perrin wouldn’t win. But as is mentioned above, people aren’t interested in who would actually win this fight, they just want their favourite to come out on top.

    • Manetheren


      Please tell me how am off base with saying you are insulting Perrin voters, and many other voters? You could be civil but that may be too mature for you. By your logic Paul has already won this cage match since he is a near god and not even Qb could stand up to him. What fun would the cage matches be if you automatically knew who was going to win the entire thing because they are they strongest. You are just some teenager doing nothing constructive but enjoys being a pain to those who are trying to have fun. Please leave.

    • Matt

      I’m a WoT fan, and will be until I die. But. there’s no way Perrin and the wolves could be that! I had to vote for Quick Ben in this one… even though the numbers suggest he won’t win.

    • LEO

      ok this whole thing with the T’avaren should just be left out… T’avaren makes Perrin have to be at the last battle so he cant die and probablity with bent to make that happen… even if Quick Ben is stronger than him… no if we left that out… Perrin would still be a powerful warrior and might have gotten far in the tournament but QB is just too powerful and would win.
      (Note: i have not read the books with QB in it and have read part of WoT)
      Also this is not supposed to be a popularity contest… if that were the case i would vote for Perrin cause he is my favorate in the books so far… and i would love more than anything to see Vin and Perrin fight (if Perrin didn’t have T’avaren)… but this isnt, its a fight.

      comment and let me know you thoughts (intelligent ones please, not \You’re wrong and gay\)

    • WhyAreYouFeedingTheTrolls?

      They just get bigger, meaner, and harder to stop.

    • Yeah Shiara, you are likely right. Sadly, It’s become a popularity contest and WOT fans are relentless in their pursuit of the mediocrity that is a lazybones blacksmith with a nagging wife who he follows around like a lost puppy (pun intended).

      This is what happened last year with Rand.


    • Shadow’sBane

      I called u a Moron For Whining…Not becoz u were saying that Quick Ben Would Win.
      And Perrin can Pull QB I’m T’A’R…Not Physically but Mentally….Read WoT again.

      @ scott
      Bring It On…its more fun if The fight is harder.

    • Kiv

      I’m an admin at a WoT fansite . . . and the idea that Perrin would win this against Quick Ben is absurd. It’s like taking Perrin over Rand in a fight.

      Besides, I’d *dearly* love to see Sanderson’s write-up for Vin v. Quick Ben. Vin v. Perrin? Not so much

    • hendak

      While I see that adding Ta’veren to a tournament like this is unfair, so is pitting a magic user that can take on armies against one guy with a hammer. So, leave Perrin as a Ta’veren, and leave Quick Ben as a magic user. I don’t really see the value in removing any character’s abilities, especially considering there’s no cash prize.

      That said, who would win–the guy with fate watching his back, or the guy who can destroy armies without breaking a sweat? My opinion is that fate wouldn’t be able to preserve someone against a godlike mage.

    • Manetheren

      @ Leo

      Actually technically being Ta’verin doesn’t mean he will survive till the last battle. If one of the three is killed then the dark one unravels the pattern. I assume it’s possible for Perrin to die before the last battle otherwise the Forsaken and the Dark wouldn’t bother trying to kill them if they didn’t think it was possible. And when it comes to unraveling the patter, the im sure the dark one know more about that then anyone else 😛 (ok that was a lame joke).

      Yes in the strictest sense it’s not a popularity contest, but a contest in which the fans of a character try to devise a way in which their character could win. Otherwise as others and i have stated before if this was a contest where the 2 contestants were set in a box and told to kill each other, then the one with more power, magic, strength or what have you wins, and everyone knows who will win the cage match.

      But the fun of this is to come up with a scenario in which you believe your character could win. LIke the Wolf dream, the world of dreams T’A’R whatever you want to call it, perrin could kick QB’s butt since it takes even the most brilliant people in WoT months to master it, even QB couldn’t master it that fast. Now to those who say the T’A’R scenario is unrealistic because how would QB get into the wolf dream? In response i have to say how are these two even fighting, they exist in complete different planes of existence so we have to take it all together that just as these two are fighting they are in T’A’R. Plausible way for Perrin to win? I think so 🙂

    • Anameinous

      The sign reads:
      Please DO NOT feed the troll.

    • Josepee

      As far as pulling Quick into TAR, this would by no means me an insta-win situation for Perrin. Quick is a master of traversing realms, other realms is where his magic comes from. If he was pulled into TAR the fight would even out allot more, but I think Quick would still win. He’d catch on quick to what was going on, and his willpower and cunning would serve him well in a TAR battle.

      BTW- I love both series, and I believe Rand definitely deserved to win last year, but IMHO, Quick would be able to defeat even him.

    • Archon


      Don’t take my word for it… look at the number of WoT fans on this very thread that are smashing that argument… You can want 2+2 to equal 5 all you want… doesn’t make it real… being Ta’veren absolutely does NOT mean that Perrin has to win this competition… period.

      @ Manetherin

      Funny… I was thinking of saying all that same stuff to you… you’re obviously too proud to admit you’re wrong in the way you jumped to your conclusions, because, if you actually read all of my posts, you could clearly see me saying that I have no problem with people voting for Perrin just because they like WoT better, and I never jumpped on ANYONE who said that… but you would have to be a big man to admit that you were wrong… but since your last post actually proved to be very supportive of one of the main points I have been arguing on here for a while, I’ll take that…


      Calling me a moron for whining makes about as much sense as Perrin being able to mentally pull Quick Ben ANYWHERE… when a person is whining about something, even if it’s truely whining, it doesn’t mean that they’re not correct… You’re a moron because you’re a moron who is flat out wrong and can’t see this obvious stuff…

    • Terez

      Scott, lay off with insulting WoT fans. Quick Ben could be up against God and Malazan fans would still vote for him (see Pug). Granted, there’s a bit of justification for that in the Malazan world, but you get the point.

      Yes, it’s a popularity contest, though I wish it wasn’t that way. I love WoT waaaaay more than Malazan, but I still voted for QB. Also, Tamyrlin (webmaster of Theoryland) voted for QB, and Luckers (admin at Dragonmount) voted for QB. But some fans see it differently – they just want their favorite books to win.

    • Terez

      I could have made the point better like so: if Fiddler was up against Pug, who do you think Malazan fans would vote for?

    • charles

      anyone that voted for Perrin has not read Malazan. Quick Ben could kill perrin with his eyes shut. I’m thinking the only one who can beat him in WOTverse, is lewis therin or the dark one himself, or someone with a damn powerful san’greal.

    • trench

      There is an old saying in sports that goes “thats why they play the games”. What it means is that even though on paper one side looks like it will totally out class thier opponent, but in the actual game the under dog wins. Thats why they play the games, not sit around and discuss statistics and tactics. This is a cage match, its a competition, and that means anyone can win. Maybe Perrin can get Quick into TAR. Even if he cant do that, he still has chance, he may lose 99 times out of a hundred but the only one that matters is this match.

      I you want to be realistic look at the Final four, it has been a cinderella year, many under dogs have beaten far more talanted teams. there is an 11 seed and an 8 seed in the Final Four. No one could have predicted this line up in the inal Four, but it happened.

      As for a way Perrin can win this fight, thats pretty tough. I am not a writer, nor do I have the time to devise a full on strategy. I have only read the first Malazan book so I am not to knowlegeable on Quick. But perrin has a wild card and its not being Ta’veren. Its his Hammer, we are not real sure of its full potential. But Perrin is Thor, and that hammer is Molojinir, so its not to much o a stretch to assume it could be a very powerul weapon. It could give him an edge, a slightly better one but a chance is all you need.

      So would he win this fight? Probably not, but then again, any team on any diven day can win, thats why they play the games.

      Oh and by the way I voted for Quick Ben, twice.

    • charles

      also, how powerful did pug get after a darkness at sethanon, being the last pug centric feist book i read. Up till that point, QB murders pug easily.

    • Manetheren


      First i think i need to remind you to chill down a bit and bring this back to civil. You were getting mad about people voting like it’s a popularity contest.

      “Yes… it’s brought us almost as much as blind popular voting has”

      Right there you were getting mad about people voting based on who they like better. A little hypocritical there?

      By the way your only convincing more people to vote for Perrin that would have voted for QB because you are insulting WoT Fans. Whether insulting them was your intentions or not, that is what you did. I jumped to no conclusions saying you where insulting WoT fans. Maybe i did jump into the middle of a conversation but that doesn’t change the fact that you are spitefully insulting WoT fans.

    • Majsju

      Even if I had not benn a \TWOT fanboy\, I would have voted for Perrin. Simply because I am sick and tired of overpowereed characters like Quick Ben going up against melee fighters.

      Next time, divide it into two tournament, melee vs melee and magic vs magic. Or stop this nonsense right now.

    • Mehndeke

      I’ll say this about T’A’R. From my understanding of it, there is no magic, or weaving, or power. It’s all the the perception of. A channeler believes they are a channeler in TAR, and so they can feel the power, and weave the weaves. Should they loose that belief, their power is diminished, or in the case of a certain Forsaken, their minds are destroyed. It’s why Perrin can deflect balefire. It wasn’t really there. He didn’t believe it. And so it had no power, despite the belief of the person weaving it. In TAR, Quick Ben has no power, only the perception of. And Perrin has already proven his mastery over the perception of power. If Perrin can get QB into TAR, he wins. If he can’t, he loses. My writeup was to show that there is a legitimate way that it could happen should he ultimately win the vote. I’ve never read QB, so if my voice was wrong, well, sorry, I can’t fix that. As for QB knowing they were coming from miles away, that’s the problem, they weren’t coming from miles. They were coming into a dream, or rather, they were moving within a dream. The rules of tracking and foresight don’t exactly apply in the normal sense. One such as Perrin or Egwene can simply appear without moving, without traveling, and without a trail or presence to sense.

      So there ya go.

    • Archon


      Wrong again… it wasn’t a statement of anger… it was a counterpoint to a point that was being made about somebody suggesting that everyone complaining about people voting for popularity is something that shouldn’t be done, like voting for popularity is something that should just be accepted… I wasn’t getting any good debates with the actual cage-match here, so I saw an angle for a side debate and took it… It’s not like I said “Those losers who vote based on popularity”… I was simply making a point that complaining about people voting for popularity isn’t necessarily worse than actually voting for poplularity… And my supporting points were all valid. Do you care to debate the other side of those? Do you think that this country has been going in the right direction in the last 50 years? Do you think that most of the people on this site won’t eventually (if they are not already) become hardline Republicans or Democrats and continue the chain of political unaccountability we’ve experienced for decades? These are all very valid points, not statements of hate and anger… if you feel offended by this, perhaps you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why…

    • trench

      Archon please layoff the political rhetoric. this is bloody cage match not cable news

    • Colby

      Ok, as much as I honestly hate to admit this, quick Ben would most likely win in this fight. Perrin has always been one of my favorite characters, but in a match against a wizard that can basically split his personality into several different parts… well, it’s pretty unlikely for Perrin to win one-on-one against that. Sad, but true.

      If we’re going to be angry about the fights like the one between Vin and Jon Snow not making sense (which, I must reiterate DOES NOT) than we’ve got to be willing to admit when one does. I’ve never read the story with Ben, but if he really has the powers that are listed for him, he’s a little too powerful for Perrin.

    • Archon

      @ Mehndek

      Your point is taken, the problem is that it’s a matter of mind and perception, and as has been pointed out by other WoT fans on here, Perrin is not a lock to be able to drag anyone into TAR without assisstance… and Quick Ben isn’t just anyone, he is probably the most mentally and perceptively powerful (all-around) man in existence, and he frequently travels through such places as Perrin’s TAR as easily as you or I would walk through a doorway… as I said, It would be like suggesting that Ny’naeve could beat Perrin in an arm-wrestling contest with no magical assisstance… Sure, it’s possible that at that moment someone might chose to shoot Perrin through the bicep with a lightning bolt and Ny’naeve would win, but given the bounds of rationality, it’s not gonna happen.

    • Archon


      Thank you for being consistent… it’s a rare trait around here 😉

      And I would love to see Colby in the next cagematch.

    • Askeladd`

      I’m a fan of both series so it’s hard for me to decide who to root for. I think given the right circumstances Perrin could win. On the other hand, I think it’ll be a lot better if QuickBen were to face off Vin. Perrin vs. Vin is boring imo.

    • Daniel

      I don’t really know much about Quick Ben but I am a big wheel of time fan. Regardless of this point I don’t think Perrin has much chance of winning this. Even if the fight was in the world of dreams who is to say he would win. Quick Ben is a genius and for all I know the world of dreams would be something that would coincide with the way his magic works. Who is to say he wouldn’t be a master even there. Perhaps he is a natural. Any way I would love to see a match up of Vin vs Quick Ben as I think it would be much more interesting the Vin vs Perrin.


      Pug has gotten very powerful. I don’t know Quick Ben but I know Pug can take on Dragons, Demons, Dread Lords and pretty much anything.

      When Some very powerful demons took over a planet and would have likely attacked midkemia next Pug used a spell he had prepared to throw a moon at the planet. I think he much have found a way to accelerate the moon much faster then gravity would have because the entire planet was demolished.

    • Manetheren

      @ Trench

      Yes thanks, i think it helps if we repeat it for Archon there.

      You. are. a. terrible. debater. End of story. A good debater can convince those in the middle to join them, you are insecure about yourself. How do i know you are insecure about yourself? Well you keep feeling the need to tell everyone how much they suck at debating and how no one can debate against you. While you may not have said anything of those things straight out, that is what you imply, and that is what people see. All i see is you making people mad.

      And you keep going off on politics in the real world which have no bearing on a FANTASY cage match. I’m done feeding the troll now 😉

    • Archon

      @ Manetheren

      Clearly you have a serious obsession with me… sorry, not interested… And I’m simply calling out people to actually debate their points rather than simply name calling, but I can see why someone like you wouldn’t be able to distinguish the difference… And the people I am “Making mad” are the ones who agree with you… what a stretch for you to only notice people who share your same viewpoint… not narrow minded at all… And I wasn’t aware that you were the authority on what can or can’t be brought up in an online fantasy cagematch, oh, that’s right, you’re not… And since I’ve pretty much owned everyone of your points with my counterpoints (again), proving that you must suck WAY worse than I do at debating, there’s no way that you’re not responding to me again 😉

    • Archon

      @ Trench

      Eh… no promises… it’s too convenient of an analogy. But if it works better for you, I can use the comparison from Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy instead… the one where Zaphod beat the far more adept Hama Kabula in the popular election because many people that vote are for some reason under the mistaken impression that the vote is for the worst dressed person in the galaxy… although I’m not so sure that’s much better since Douglas Adams himself made it perfectly clear that that was his anologous take on real-world popular elections… But at least it’s a fantasy book…

    • Probably Not Batman

      One of the reasons I like Quick is that he’s a devious bastard. I mean, yes, his access to twelve warrens means he can fly, move through walls, jump through several different elemental planes at will, throw demons and the undead at people, persuade people that the monsters tearing them apart are real and not illusion, get inside people’s heads, turn invisible, not need to turn invisible because he’s persuaded people around him that’s he’s not even there, drop hillsides on people, drop hillsides that are on fire on people, drop people in oceans, drop oceans on people, drop bits of oceans in people, drop oceans on hillsides that are on fire, and just generically blast the living crap out of most things he sees.

      But, you see, he doesn’t do that stuff most of the time, because stuff like that? People will sit up and notice it, and a lot of them will be powerful enough to do several things to inconvenience Quick, ranging from exhausting him defeating them to just plain getting annihilated. So he’s subtle. He’s tricky. He has a million schemes and a million backups, and the incredibly important ability to be knocked unconscious by friends (aka people he doesn’t not trust as badly as most) after one too many goes kaput.

      Perrin is a fairly beasty combatant in his own world. Quick is a scheming arse in his. They both fit in their own series, they just don’t mesh well. Personally, my vote goes to the one who, when insulted by a man who has killed over twelve million people, is to drop him in a pit made directly beneath him then run away. And then perve at his commander’s lover. And then kidnap a tyrant from a castle being rammed by another castle. And then investigate flying mountains piloted by dinosaurs with guns that shoot lightning. Then blow up dragons. Then get punched in the face. What I’m saying is that Quick Ben is a pretty cool guy.

      (One last thing, on the whole wolf dream thing. Quick has access to Mockra, the Warren of the Mind. So his first reaction on entering the wolf dream is to ascertain that it’s another realm, if not, what he can use magic wise, and then open a portal to another realm and leave that way. That is, if the wards Quick uses – such as those to keep a certain Elder God out of his business later in the series – don’t simply prevent Perrin from interferring, much as Rand’s wards on his dreams protect him)

    • Wolffollower

      I believe the only way that Perrin really should stand a chance in this fight is if it were in Tel’aranrhoid (Spelling is prolly off). Granted, I have never read Quick Ben’s series, but, having been a WoT fan for a while, I believe that multiple personalities there would be more of a hindrance during a fight in a place where thoughts reign supreme. If one of them for a moment thinks something off the wall, then Perrin’s will would be able to overthrow him. Another point in the Dream World. If Perrin wills it to not hit him, and his will is stronger than Ben’s, then it doesn’t matter what Quick Ben does, it just won’t hit Perrin. That is how during the most recent book in the fight in Tar Valon that mainly took place in the Wold of Dreams, Perrin was stopping lightning bolts, and even Balefire (for those that don’t know, makes it to where you didn’t even exist in the world) with a thought.

      If Quick Ben is needlessly destroying the lives of wolves, then Perrin would go into a blood rage and basically destroy Quick Ben.

      Please note, this is ONLY if it happened in the World of Dreams. If this write-up is to be believed in how insanely powerful Quick Ben is, then Perrin is screwed in it.

    • Ok seriously I’m a huge WoT fan, and have only read the first Malazan book, and even I know there is no freaking way Perrin would beat Quick Ben. Vote with reason, not just because you like WoT more.

    • John

      If this is in Tel’Aran’rhiod Perrin wins, if not, he gets his ass beat, simple as that.

      I DO wonder why the CLEARLY stronger character wins handily in this writeup but not the Jon Snow vs. Vin one, where the stronger character is handicapped severely and the weaker character acts with much greater strength than he actually possesses.

      What the heck gives, Suvudu?

    • Erunion

      I love WOT, and have never read Malazan. But I can’t vote Perrin. He has at most a 10% chance of survival, that chance relying on him being able to somehow get QB into the World of Dreams. In TAR, Perrin would probably win, about a 75% chance, as he would likely be able to overwhelm QB before QB got a thorough understanding of the rules of TAR (judging by what people are saying about his intellect, QB would likely be able to figure out enough about TAR to beat Perrin if he lasted more than a minute or two. However, he’s not likely to last that long).

      End result? Perrin’s chances are too slim. I won’t vote against him (not yet, anyhow. Not until I know more about QB). But I won’t vote for him.

      And please people, not Vin vs. Perrin for the finals! That’d be boring. Vin vs. QB in the finals (in QB’s favour, but Vin has a solid chance. If the fight was on Scadrial, in the mists, with a certain… err… Preserving effect going on, Vin would have a very, very good chance. Anywhere else, she’d have about 40%), and Perrin vs. Jon in the consolation match. Those would be interesting fights!

    • Archon

      @ probably not Batman


      @ Wolffollower

      He is…

      @ John

      Suvudu has shown that in this year’s cage match it has included a number of fan favorites from a number of popular book series that nobody at Suvudu has actually read… so they are kind of winging it on certain characters that has resulted in some very questionable write-ups…

    • Colby

      @ Archon

      Thanks, I appreciate it. As for being in the next cagematch… bring it. hehehe… 😉

    • Shane


      A popularity contest is exactly what these cage matches are…why can you not grasp this? Obviously Quick Ben should win. But notice that he is not? Obviously there is no realistic way Martin should have made it as far as he did…yet he did.

      Please, explain to me how this isn’t a popularity contest?

      I’m not trying to be a jerk here, that this is a popularity contest is what I honestly believe, and people can complain that I’m a fanboy all they want. But at least explain.

      Please no using Rand winning last year as a show of people voting for the realistic winner. Rand is one of the most popular characters from one of the most popular fantasy series ever written.

    • John Dark

      Perrin is beating Quick Ben 1457 to 899. What the hell are the voters smoking? I am a fan of both series but there is no way, no where, no how that Perrin would stand even a ghosts fart of a chance. Not even in Tel-dream-thingy, which in even getting there makes a LOT of silly assumptions that end up with QB being there in the first place and either not figuring out instantly what’s going on and leaving, or simply using the rules of the dream realm against Perrin and snapping him as QB is obviously a lot stronger mentally.
      This is the down side to democracy – an idiots vote is worth the same as a wise persons. Rampant blind fanboyism much?

    • Kah-thurak

      You ask how Malazan Fans would vote in a macht Fiddler vs Pug… I guess most would vote for Pug and complain about Fiddler beeing in over his head in an unfair fight. That Quick Ben would win against Pug seems pretty likely to me. They both have the potential to kill each other many times over. But Quick is simply much more devious, vicious and ruthless than Pug so this would tip the scales I guess. The final four in this tournament should probably been Paul Atreides, Pug, Vin/Zed (whom I dont know enough to say which should be stronger) and Quick. Pug, Paul of Quick should have won then with no large advantag against each other and Zed/Vin with an outsider chance.

      Naturally this whole contest would have been much more interesting from the start devided into two, one for mages and one for warriors, but as it is as it is, how Perrin Ayberra could beat Quick in an open fight I do not see. Even in the world of dreams, the question would be how much understanding of such dreamworlds Quick would have. There is the Queen of Dreams in the Malazan World after all and Quick should be familiar with her Warren.

      That the WoT fans as a whole seem to see this as a contest which series has the largest fanbase is something I find kind of boring. We knew that from the start. Maybe WoT characters should simply not be included anymore to make things remotely interesting.

    • Pruthvish

      Ok let’s get something straight: Perrin is awesome, he’s powerful and no way would he be beaten that easily. And like I pointed out we don’t know the properties of his hammer yet so you can’t just disregard it offhand. Also if Rand and QB were up against each other, QB would be dead the second the battle started because Rand’s the fricking DRAGON REBORN!!! He defeats the bloody Dark One for crying out loud!!! And as far as QB being human goes: he DOESN’T have enhanced senses is what I tried to portray. And in case you forget Perrin is Ta’veren whatever you say. Now coming to the write up: If QB had enough GUTS to come out and face Perrin fair and square without hiding in the trees like a COWARD then Perrin would have struck him down easily.

    • Kah-thurak

      Quick Ben human? Partly U guess. There is a Tiste Andii in there somewhere and a Soletaken. Perrin may be an interesting WoT character – his plotline in Shadow Rising is my favourite part of the WoT – but he is not particulary powerful. Quick Ben is. He is also much less restrained by morals than Perrin and has a much quicker wit (thats where name comes from anyway). Rand, at his highest power level in ToM, would be more powerful than Quick Ben. Still he knows that he would be outwitted by someone like Graendel, who is portraied pretty much as clever as Quick, so this fight would not be as onesided as you think.

    • Archon

      @ Shane

      The end result does not define the means… Just because the winner is the most popular charcter does not mean that this IS a popularity contest… Due to the nuances of the democratic system, people are allowed to vote for anyone they want for any reason they want… just about every vote there is between people comes down to popularity to some degree, but that doesn’t make it a popularity contest… again, at the risk of ‘getting political’, the presidential vote is usually determined by a simple matter of who people find the most ‘likeable’ option (every meida poll every election shows that a significant percentage of people vote according to this), and the winner has not been the best person suited for the job in decades… but the purpose of the presidential vote is STILL to elect the president even though most people don’t vote based on who would actually make the best president… this IS a cage match to determine who everyone thinks would win in a fight between these characters, and even though MANY fanboys vote for their favorite regardless, that still doesn’t change the fact that it is a cagematch vote to see who fans think would win in a fight. If a group of 1000 people came on here at 4:00 pm tomorrow and voted for Quick Ben for no other reason than that his nick-name starts with the letter ‘Q’, they would have won the match for Ben, but that doesn’t mean that the match is now a vote to decide who has the coolest first letter of their nickname… Just because a significant portion of voters vote for reasons that do not match the purpose of the vote, doesn’t change the purpose of the vote…

    • Archon

      @ Kah-Thurak

      You would have to exclude ASoIaF characters from that as well… otherwise, their characters would simply take the place of the WoT characters…

      @ Pruthvish

      Since you clearly have not read the Malazan series, let me fill you in on everything you need ot know about Quick Ben concerning Perrin… Quick Ben is not quite as powerful as Rand, but he’s within arm’s reach, and he’s far more cunning and tactically sound… put it this way, If you give Quick a chance to plan for any battle (as most of these matches indicate), and it’s humanly possible for his opponent to be defeated, Quick will figure out a way to defeat him… In that way, he is actually a match for Rand, not to say he would necessarily be able to beat Rand, but he’s on that level… If you think Perrin would have a sniff of a chance to beat Rand, then go ahead and pretend that he would be able to beat Quick Ben…

    • Tsiar

      @ Pruhtvish

      No, QB definetely has not enough guts to get himself killed – as someone previously pointed out, he does not play fair. One of reasons why he would win this fight.

    • Kiv


      Perrin beating Quick Ben isn’t a VCU-in-the-Final-Four style upset. It’s more like Central High School of West Nowhereville, Idaho making the Final Four. Perrin isn’t anywhere in his league.

    • Adjutant Stormy

      Quick Ben has fought dragons, gods, and an entire army’s mage cadre to a standstill.

      Perrin’s just a speedbump with plot armor.

    • archon


    • archon

      That should say ‘This’ while pointing at Kiv and Adjuntant Stormy’s posts ^^

    • archon

      Wow… looks like Scott wasn’t playing… Quick Ben is pulling out his shaved knuckle in the hole lol… hopefully he didn’t pull it out too early…

    • irriadin

      Wheel of Time is my favorite series of books, but even I know that Perrin stands no chance against Quick Ben. Rand? Yea, I’d take Rand over QB, but it still wouldn’t be a curbstomp. Mat? Doubtful. Even with the foxhead medallion that’s a toss-up at best. Perrin, sadly, is ill-equipped to handle mages, and Quick Ben is one hell of a mage.

    • But Colby, do not forget Perrins shiny-new, Power-wrought war hammer, forged with the help of both Saidin and Saidar 😉

      Nobody could predict its influence on Quick Bens Warrens! Might just be as hillarious an outcome as Caladan Broods teeth-rattling hammerblast against worthwile Kruppe 😀

    • John Paul

      Love the wheel of time but love the malazan books more. Highly recommended to everyone who enjoys great fantasy. Judging these guys on their own merits I’m sorry to say whoever is in Perrin’s corner better bring a bucket & a mop. It won’t be pretty.

    • cicero

      @Gethbox: Just want to say as a diehard Erikson fan, a rabid supporter of Quick in this match, and as someone who is less than enthusiastic about the Wheel of Time, incredibly poor form, mate. Tasteless.

    • Chris

      @Gethbox: Dude, that was just wrong. It is in bad taste to insult someone who can’t defend themselves, especially when you are just spouting out a bunch of baloney and saying that was how he was.

      @Cicero: Shame you don’t like them, personally I think the WoT is a great series, I haven’t read Malazan or ASOIAF but I shall when I get a chance. Perhaps you should give the WoT another shot after the last book comes out, you never know?

      For the record I voted for Quick, sorry Perrin, but you don’t stand a chance against any competent magic user, I just didn’t like paul.

    • Whiskeyjack

      Quick Ben, cowardly? Hardly. In one of the books of the series, i forget which, QB came face to face with probably one of the most powerful characters in the series, Icarium the Lifestealer. A half-Jaghut, half Toblakai demigod, QB threw everything he had at Icarium and nearly had his head handed to him. All that just to repay a favour QB owed to his former boss Kellanved. Now, Icarium is simply a nightmare, a Norwegian Berserker on a freakin’ cocktail of crystal meth and caffeine. His will alone carried him straight thru QB’s primal magic blasts.??
      QB survived only through a timely intervention from another god character. What i’m trying to say here is QB is fallible if caught with his pants down, as we all are, mage or no mage. But if its a battle than he knows full well about, and he’s able to prepare.. He’ll burn down anything in his path. And he’s certainly no coward.

    • Gothos

      @Gethbox: that’s just… seriously. I’m speechless. Me I’m an Erikson fanboy and I don’t think much of WoT, but that’s just crossing it on several levels. Let’s hope someone will take away custody from you if you ever have children, for their sake.

      Also: Go Go Quick Ben!

    • cicero

      @Chris: I made it up to Winter’s Heart in my original read years ago, back when I was waiting on the edge of my seat for every new book. I didn’t have the gumption to plunge into Crossroads of Twilight, I just ran out of steam. Re-read up to Lord of Chaos two years back and enjoyed it immensely, but stymied going into CoS, and that’s actually when I got pulled into Malazan.

      All to say, I’m very anxious to see what Sanderson’s done and how everything’s going to end, but I think I’ll need yet another re-read from Book 1 to get the most out of the series, so I’m going to fortify myself between now and MoL’s release, then dive back in. All in all I’d say I’m still a casual fan of the series and probably would be more of a diehard fan today if I hadn’t fallen prey to Crossroads of Twilight syndrome.

    • havenophear

      Yes, Quick would win. No, wolves would not have killed Perrin since they are telepathically linked, and use scent even more than sight, so the cloaking illusion would have failed. I guess I’ve more complaints with the writeup than the result. Eh, whatever.

    • While I will say that Quick Ben is much likelier to win the fight, I don’t think the write-up is an accurate portrayal of how it would happen. I seriously doubt the wolves would be fooled by a visual illusion, since they’re all essentially telepathic.

    • Ray

      Ok… Quick Ben survived being what was probably the most powerful wave a magic to ever flow through one man when they fought the Nah Ruk. Huge lizard-like creatures with blades for arms and huge… magical… whatever those things were (I’m not even sure). Has he actually killed a god? I don’t think so, but he has outwitted them on several occasions, even being so bold as to sneak into Hood’s own realm and get out alive! (For you WoT fans that basically means he snuck into the afterlife, Hood being the Grim Reaper you could say, and got out alive…) Now the WoT series is my favorite, but there is no way a Blacksmith with a hammer and some wolves Could defeat Quick Ben. Like they said in how the fight will go… he doesn’t even need to be anywhere near him!

    • Ray


      You might have a point there, but remember the wolves can’t just talk to anybody, they have to be open and have the wolfbrother link to them. Quick Ben most likely would not have that telepathic link to them, and if he did it is very likely he could hide it. OPf course he might not even know about it or think about it, but it is still more likely that Quick Ben is like most humans and can’t talk to wolves.

    • Ray

      @ Whiskeyjack

      “a Norwegian Berserker on a freakin’ cocktail of crystal meth and caffeine.”??

      Best description of Icarium I ever heard LMAO!

    • Ray

      @ Prutvish

      But that’s not the point of these matches is it? The point is for each contestant to use what they have at their disposal. You can expect Quick Ben to face Perrin fare and square, an old frail man against a huge blacksmith swinging a hammer, as much as you could expect Perrin to start channeling saidin at Quick Ben. His guile and deviousness are what makes him who he is.

    • wcarter4

      I love Perrin, and I love WoT, but there is no way he should have beaten Paul and it would make even less sense for him to defeat Quick Ben.

    • Luci

      I like this write up, it’s much more the sort of thing Quick would do, but only if he couldn’t just destroy him with a wall of power as this would take much more effort. WoT fans you could say that the writers gave Perrin’s hammer the benefit of the doubt in that it would protect him a bit/entirely against direct magical attack. If so, this is just one way Quick could get around it.
      That’s how I see it.

      Probably Not Batman:
      Bahahaa! That was hilarious 😛 Possibly a little innacurate in some bits, but gives a good idea and was funny, so I don’t care 😀

      Wolffollower: *small spoilers from one of the first Malaz books* (though if you’ve read the comments this far it’s probably already spoiled :P)
      It might help to know that last we heard (in one of the first books was the last time it was mentioned) all the different minds in his head had quitened into just one, giving the impression that they sort of melded and are probably now inseperable (if anyone knows anything to the contrary please correct me, but that’s what I remember and have yet to read TCG)
      Who knows just how powerful his will is.

      I agree, nice to see consistency 🙂
      Also, I’m fairly sure Quick wasn’t splitting his personalities (he can’t do that to my knowledge), the other copies of him were illusions. Hence why neither Perrin nor the wolves seemed to be able to land a blow.

      I also think it might be nice for people to, if they can, avoid too detailed spoilers. Or at the very least warn they’re coming and preferably from what book they come. Afterall, part of the point of this whole thing is to expose us all to potentially new series. No point in ruining them for those we expose them to 😛 (even if the write up’s have some spoilers)

    • D-Dub

      Let Perrin lose, because he probably should. But know this, if Mat Cauthon is ever put in one of these, he will dominate all voting no matter how powerful his oppenent.

    • Bauchelain

      Ok, to all those who are saying wolves won’t be fooled by an illusion thanks to their sense of smell. Apart from Meanas, the warren of optical illusions, Quick can also use Mockra, the warren of the mind. Just to let you understand, another accomplished Mockra mage almost strangled to death someone simply by imagining that someone else was strangling him.Thus I’m sure Quick can confuse the senses of a bunch of wolves.

      And even if that doesn’t work, well, while Quick prefers being subtle, it doesn’t mean he can’t show off. He once used a combination of Serc,air, and Telas, fire, to burn an entire army by turning the air in their lungs in fire. now tell me some wolves and a guy with a hammer can manage that.

    • DaGurlScout

      Do trolls like cookies? I have choco minty, kickndahead (with a coconut coating, yumm!), WoTberry (like snozberries, only with more fiber), slowjam (big bang for your benjamins….)….there are others….

      Oh, if there are any trolls around, I heard once that they like caves/basements, like their mommies way too much, are mostly mistaken for EMO (but we all know at least EMOs know what sunlight is like, unlike a troll, who is simply angry at the rest of world and is willing to take any side just to prove that they are correct….take a side on anything, about anyone, involving vastly varying and conflicting PoV’s, and for some reason, are silent partners/angel investors in the Tea Party, all while cowering in their basements, afraid to step away from WoW and get a tan…..weird huh?)

      Oh, and Wolves are their natural enemies…..sux to be at the bottom of a food chain doesn’t it?

    • archon

      @ Gethbox

      Sooooo…. don’t mince words… tell us how you REALLY feel about Robert Jordan…

      @ Whiskeyjack

      You forgot to add in your description; “Who can literally go nuclear!”…

      And to those calling QB a coward… outrageous. He constantly does things that require a pair of balls the size of volkswagons… He’s also off-the-charts intelligent though, so he’s extremely pragmatic in his approach to combat.

    • archon

      And wow, this would be a win in true Quick Ben style… pulling out the shaved knuckle in the hole when things were looking bleak… Although for it to have ever been that bleak against Perrin, Perrin would have had to caught him sleeping…

    • breadedwit

      Good reference to the dream world where Perrin would destroy Quick Ben!

    • trench

      Wow, I wonder if Quick can keep this up, he has all the malazan fans plus what seems to be 1/3 of WOT fans in his pocket (myself included). But does he have what it takes to keep the pressure on or did he use the shaved knuckle too soon?

    • Valan

      @ D-Dub Yes Mat would dominate all voting, but its not like he wouldn’t deserve it, he’s a complete badass with a medallion that nullifies magic. So he’d even have a chance against Quick here.

      As for this match – Quick FTW.

      @ Gethbox Dude, Not Cool.

    • Ben


      Avoiding spoilers with these characters is pretty difficult. Quick Ben is introduced as a squad mage, someone who might have some talent (but all of the commanders believe his talent to be average). You only really start getting a sense of how truly powerful he is as the books go on and Erikson details Quick’s deviousness. How do you avoid spoilers with Perrin? He doesn’t get his hammer until what, the 12th book in his series? He doesn’t really give in and summon the wolves until Dumai’s Well, which happens in the 6th book — until then, he mostly recoils back from them, or at least doesn’t truly accept them. The whole idea of him having that much control of TAR is pretty late in the series as well.

      It’s a nice thought, but…hard to really do.

    • John

      Well thankfully they do not have Rand on there. Rand would dominate all of them.

    • Milamber

      Just like Jon Snow could never beat Vin, Perrin could never beat QB. Vin vs QB, now that could get ugly if she has enough metals in her.

    • foxhead

      The folks at Suvudu have a strange dislike of WOT characters

    • Phoenix

      *FAIL* unless Quick also changed Perrin’s scent, there’s no way the wolves would have fallen for that trick.

    • archon

      @ John

      They had Rand in last year’s match… and given that the other god-like characters were upset early by more popular characters, Rand did dominate…

    • Jlingo

      I wonder whom Vin will be facing. I hope it is Quick Ben. Let a true champion emerge and not some “blacksmith”.

    • Macready


      Illusion spells, when performed by a masterful mage (which I think we all agree Quick Ben is) are sometimes capable of killing the victim simply because the image is so realistic and convincing. Therefor I’d imagine that the spells don’t just have an effect on vision, but other senses as well.

      With TAR, it’s been about 3 years since I’ve read WoT so perhaps I’m wrong, but doesn’t the other member also have to be asleep? So what, at the start of the mach is Perrin going to politely ask Ben to lay down and take a nap?

    • AHEM

      Listen everyone, Vin just took the win against Jon Snow, so if we want to see a clash between Jon and Perrin like everyone thought at the beginning, it will have to be in a consolation match, like Kvothe vs. Drizzt last years. Therefore, vote for Quick Ben.

    • Sosei

      There are ways to enter TAR without being asleep. For example using a portal, like any member of the Forsaken (except Moghedien), Rand and Egwene once did. Or whatever method Slayer uses.

    • Enoch

      I like what I’ve read of WoT so far, but since I was agreeing with the group of people who said that Vin should beat Jon (Dr. Horrible would be proud that “Johnny” Snow lost :P) I shouldn’t be hypocritical. So I voted Quick Ben. Here’s to the best/most popular character!

    • Kathy Sedai

      Everyone is forgetting the TaVeren effect. Ben could accidentally strike himself, and a la burnt Ben. I’m just sayin.

    • Gremlin

      To all the folks using the Ta’veren argument: Perrin doesn’t have to be alive at the last battle.

      He only has to be alive at the last battle for humanity to win.

      That said, voting Perrin. Agreed with the point that taking away TAR=taking away the warrens, which means brute force beatdown=Perrin wins. Including TAR=vastly reduced or no magical ability (note the hunt for the Forsaken in Tar Valon). Reduced magical ability=vastly weakened wizards=Perrin wins.

      Even accounting for QB’s incredible intelligence, we’ve seen what happens in TAR with intelligence (Siuan, Nynaeve, etc). It’s not about intelligence & learning, it’s about straight willpower…which still means Perrin wins.

      Much as I appreciate the appeal behind a character who’s at nigh-demigod status, it’s tough for a demigod to compete on a playing field suddenly leveled, where the competition must be decided by very human attributes instead of superpowers.

    • ZetaStriker

      Since when was Perrin that powerful of a Taveren? Only Mat has had things like that turn in his favor; not even Rand gets such overt examples of personal ineptitude/misfortune backfiring on his enemies. For the most part it seems about subtle or overt control over people’s emotions that makes them act in a certain way. If anything, I’d say the biggest defense being Taveren has given Perrin is keeping any Forsaken from actually finding him. Because they were certainly looking, and even the pattern knows he doesn’t stand a chance against them in the waking world. If the pattern wanted Perrin to survive this, he never would have been fighting Quick Ben in the first place.

    • Shancaldazar


      Just for that comment I’m voting for Perrin. That is beyond expressing a dislike for his series and him. You just insulted an absolutely massive fan base, that is many times the size of the Malazan fan base. I’d laugh if Perrin wins because of that comment!

    • Arch

      Mmm. I don’t doubt that Quick Ben should take this one, but there’s no way in hell it would happen as above, unless Ben’s illusion would block the weird psychic link of the wolves as well as fooling the senses.

    • Fortuona Paendrag

      @Gethbox wow… I love the Wheel Of Time series and I can understand why Robert Jordan kept it going until he died. It is an awesome series! Have you read it? I feel sorry for you because you have such a low opinion of Robert Jordan’s series.


      I <3 Perrin and the Wheel of Time!!!

    • dpomerico

      @Gethbox–I’ve removed your comment, as it was more than just a bit offensive. (And I apologize to everyone else that it was up so long).

      While we’re definitely open to discussions and disagreements, let’s TRY to keep it civil, okay?

    • trench


      I hope you have another trick up your sleeve for Ben. The tide is rising over here now, and this fight has alot of time left. I think a Snow vs Aybara match would be better then Vin vs Perrin matchup. So were gonna need another fan push.

    • Alexandru

      I would just like to say that as a huge Wheel of Time fan, this was a hard match to vote on. In a pure physical world battle, yes Perrin despite his awesomeness in the most recent book gets crushed unless his taveren nature steps up and twists event dramatically in his favor. For those who haven’t read far in the series this is NOT a spoiler. Perrin’s taveren-ness does come into play, it just isn’t often as blatant as Rand or Mat’s. Many event of his storyline in later books show subtlety in taveren twisting for him. Now in the wolf dream, if we are sticking to Perrin in the most recent novel (and because of the hammer I must presume we are) Perrin takes the match hands down. Those who have read Towers of Midnight know why I say this, those who haven’t I won’t spoil it. The real trick is getting Ben into Tel’aran’rhiod. Yes there are methods of getting there without being asleep, but unless the fight is mandated to take place there, I can’t see any reason why such a knowledgeable sorcerer would take the fight there outside of noble intent or desire for a greater challenge. I may just have to abstain unless it comes to the 11th hour and a few votes will cast it in one direction or the other, because I hate voting these matches based on popularity.

    • Jmull

      I love WOT, I do. That said, even in “TAR” Quick would dominate. If it’s a question of willpower, then there are few able to match a man able to possess 12 souls, all incredible beings in themselves (At least one of the souls is hundreds of thousands of years old and likely an ascendant). It is, simply, an unfair match. Even without magic Quick possesses the soul of one who was able to push Dassem Ultor back in a “fury of blows”, and Dassem makes any blademaster in WOT look like a child wielding a stick.

      Perrin, you’re one of my heroes, but you do not belong here. Everyone else, you all make great points but Quick Ben is a man to make gods tremble.

    • Jmull


      These battles are great and everyone’s input is at least entertaining if not straight up insightful. However, and perhaps I am saying something that has been said many times before, have you considered creating two versions of the cage match? One for semi-regular joes like Perrin and another for people like Quick and Pug?

    • Archon

      Okay guys… once more for the cheap seats… Dying is NOT a necessary outcome for winning / losing this competition, as we saw from Perrin’s own battle against Martin and Quick’s against Pug… Therefore, being Ta’veren does NOT help Perrin in this competition at all because he doesn’t have to die to lose… so he can still easily lose this fight AND be at the last battle… I find it so strange that half of the WoT fans get this and half do not… it’s like you guys are reading 2 different series…

    • Shancaldazar

      @ Jmull i do like the idea of having two seperate matches.. and then have a winner for magic/god and melee/strength one. Then maybe have a “crowd favorite match” where the two face off in a specific popularity contest

    • Archon

      I can’t even imagine how people are really trying to convince themselves that Perrin is even in this fight… It’s one thing to say that you like Perrin better so you’re going to vote for him regardless… but to even suggest that Perrin has a chance to beat Quick Ben is as ludicrous as say that John Snow had a chance against Vin… Thankfully, there were enough people with integrity to allow the less popular but clearly superior character in that battle to win… we can only hope the same integrity holds here…

    • Cornwallis

      Quick Ben could simply use Mockra and a combination of Rashan and Meanas to get close to Perrin without him being completely aware of Ben’s location, then open a rift into a warren, say, the Imperial, and unleash a wave of power to force Perrin into it. No need for Perrin to die. He just needs to be incapacitated.

    • Archon


    • Som1else

      People that are saying Perin can’t lose because he is Ta’Veran don’t realize that Ben doesn’t exist within the Pattern and so the Ta’Veran effect would do nothing to help him win the fight. But I still am obligated to vote for Perin due to the WoT fanbase voting for Vin

    • Archon

      @ Some1else

      So you wanted the WoT fanbase to vote for Vin simply because she’s your favorite character?

    • Shancaldazar

      Vin was the obvious choice in that cage match and the entire WoT community felt that way so we are actually backing vin more than perrin which is why jon was able to be defeated.

    • Archon


    • Archon

      You see it coming don’t you?

      You HAVE to see it coming…

    • Archon

      Seems to be a slight integrity issue here….

    • Izzy

      I am a fan of both the WoT and Malazan series, but Perrin doesn’t stand a chance again Quick’s warrens and experience in battle! Quick’s very intelligent and would still have a good chance if Perrin somehow managed to get Quick into Tel’aran’rhiod.

    • Tony

      A simple visual illusion would convince the wolves to attack Perrin, as the wolves identify people by mental images and smell. The wolves don’t see Perrin as a person, they see him as a young bull with metal horns. The illusion might confuse them, but not make them immediately attack Perrin.

      That point aside, I don’t know anything about Quick Ben, so I have no idea what the outcome would be.

    • Tony

      And Archon, do say that Vin is a superior character to Jon Snow is unjustified.

      More powerful? Definately.

      Superior? Not in my opinion. Jon is a far more engaging read than Vin, and in my opinion, that makes him a superior character.

    • Tony

      And Archon, do say that Vin is a superior character to Jon Snow is unjustified.

      More powerful? Definately.

      Superior? Not in my opinion. Jon is a far more engaging read than Vin, and in my opinion, that makes him a superior character.

      Possible double post here, if so, I’m sorry, but after refreshing the page it looks like my second post didn’t go through

    • Kristi Deming

      Here we go again (and like last time, I’m giving fair warning: my responses are NEVER short, I try to cover as much as I can in one post, so if you don’t like to read more than “I’m voting for such and such because I hate the other series”, don’t bother reading this. Also, there is this whole thing about people avoiding spoilers…if you haven’t read it, then you’ve got no business commenting on the match, simple. ToM has been out for a while now…more than a half a year…if you don’t know what’s happened by now, I suggest that you also do not read this.)

      I’m starting to believe that instead of wasting time voting, that we should all start showing our disapproval of not only the people chosen (pardon me Martin…and one mouse), but the write-ups as well that all but SHOUT that the people writing them have either read only one of the sides’ story, are writing for their favorite rather than objectively, or have read nothing but a Cliff Note version of series involved. Instead of voting, STOP. The only way they keep doing this shit is because everyone keeps faithfully plodding along and voting like sheep.

      And I’m not saying this because I want Perrin to win cause I’m a WoTmaniac (frankly, from the moment he met “HER” up until this last book, I couldn’t stand him, any more than I could stand Lan and the way HE started acting once he and Nynaeve got married. And apparently, Berelain and Galad are going to be just as brainless now!) During Perrin’s match with Paul, I said repeatedly that if it had been his son, Leto II, NO ONE, not even Perrin, could have won against him. There IS a reason he’s Immortal, and he doesn’t die until he achieves his goal: to free humanity from being slaves to the visions of one person.
      As for the actual match with Paul, I pointed out things like the fact that Perrin would NEVER call on the wolves to save himself, EVER. The only time he has called them has been to save someone else. Also, Paul’s Voice wouldn’t have worked against him, as per the Dune series: Paul took normal, strong-willed men, and trained them to resist the Voice to be his bodyguard. Perrin is down-right pigheaded when it comes to surrender; he’s faced off against some of the best users of Compulsion in WoT, so even thinking that the Voice would work against him is like thinking that Rand is going to go to Shayol Ghul and convince Ishamael that he’s really on the wrong side, and that Moiraine is going to bake him some nice chocolate chip cookies.

      As far as the people disagreeing with the whole Perrin being Ta’veren so can’t lose bit: You’re absolutely right. Even MAT doesn’t have that kind of luck with being Ta’veren. Hell, RAND doesn’t! At best, his being Ta’veren might make him able to talk Ben out of fighting (doubt it though), or just as the deathblow is falling, the match is halted due to a technicality. THAT is how Ta’veren twist the Pattern. Being Ta’veren didn’t stop Rand from getting his hand burned off, didn’t keep Mat from losing an eye to the ‘Finn, and didn’t make it so “SHE” died during the fight in Malden (yes, I really do hate HER that much…) Being Ta’veren does things like Rand slipping on blood during a fight so that he narrowly misses having his head chopped. Being Ta’veren makes it so that Mat could cheat at a Roulette wheel, but still can’t manage to avoid a fight no matter how much he tries. Being Ta’veren makes it so that Perrin, trying to get the Dreamspike away from his and Galad’s armies so the Channelers can open Gateways, ends up near enough to the White Tower that the Dreamspike keeps Mesaana and a LOT of Black Ajah from being able to Gate out, and gets Mesaana turned into an item in the produce department.
      Time and again, everyone from Moiraine to Cadsuane to Ishamael, it’s been stated plainly that being Ta’veren doesn’t magically make everything go your way. It simply twists Chance around you, and it does it in a balanced way: i.e. the kid falling off a cliff and getting back up without a scratch, versus the guy in an empty room tripping over his foot and landing face first in such a matter that his chin hits the ground at just the right angle that it breaks his neck. THAT is how Ta’veren works on the Pattern.

      @Som1else: one of the biggest mistakes the write-ups are making is that they are placing the characters in one playing field where one of them would have an edge. And I don’t know if you read the series or not, but at one point (in The Great Hunt), Verin describes all the worlds of “IF”…there is a Pattern in every possible universe, just like there is a Creator and a Dark One (being the Atheist that I am, I see it more as in multiple dimensions, Existence is a thread that connects them all, and that everything has it’s opposite to create Balance…I used to argue with people that Heaven can’t exist because it’s supposed to be “perfect”….no hate, no death, no pain, no love, etc…so it’s just a bland, colorless existence.) If you want a better example, take the Matrix, when Agent Smith is telling Morpheus that the first Matrix attempts kept failing because they tried to make everything perfect, and we as human beings rejected it, so they lost whole crops of people before figuring out we need a catalyst to drive us, even if it’s suffering. Another example is “Serenity” and the Reavers: the Alliance thought they could make people “better” by removing aggression…and all but a 0.01% of the people on Miranda just laid down and died; the others got super-hyped up aggression and became Cannibals (and they weren’t mindless, or they wouldn’t have been able to do things like set traps for victims, etc.) I could even go so far as to include “A Clockwork Orange” and how they conditioned Alex to be incapable of violence…even to protect himself. Every thing has an opposite, every action has a consequence and a benefit (even if it’s only the ability to draw another breath.)

      @Cornwallis: I’ve been waiting for people to voice that…they don’t need to kill their opponents. I had a faint glimmer of hope when Perrin faced Martin, and Martin was still breathing in the end. Because of the killing aspect, there are some people in this competition that have no business being in this competition because they would refuse to fight, and they would definitely refuse to kill for no reason. Hell, when Aram was trying to kill Perrin, he kept trying his damnedest to NOT kill Aram despite the fact that it might cost his life…in the end, an Aiel killed Aram. A lot of the other people (excuse me again, Martin) that have been brought into this would not fight just because they were told to. In fact, if someone had put it more that a bunch of them joined together to get out of this ridiculousness, that would have been far more acceptable. Most of the people (and mouse) chosen for this round are Rebels of a sort. The quickest way to get Lestat, Eric, Vin, Perrin, Zed, Covenant, Paul, Jon Snow, Snape, etc, to NOT do something is by telling them they HAVE to. Most of those involved in this year’s match are the kind of people that would form a circle, their backs to each other, and face off anything that came at them, because they are, above anything else, survivors, and they HATE being told what to do. Of all the ones I just mentioned, the only one who might just kill someone for the fun of it would be Lestat…even Eric uses caution before he kills.

      @Jmull: I agree Perrin doesn’t belong in this any more than a good lot of the others. As for Ben beating him in T’a’R, I don’t think it likely for one simple reason: from Egwene, the Dreamwalkers, Birgitte, Slayer/Isam/Luc, even the Chosen, none of them ever conceived of “if I don’t accept it, it’s not real”. It used to bug the hell out of me, Rand in tDR using Callandor to split Balefire…it took Perrin in ToM making the Balefire just disappear, and then explaining to Egwene that it’s only real if you accept it, to realize that it was because Rand was in T’a’R and had no idea what Balefire was, so he just assumed it was like any other Weave, so he cut at it with Callandor, expecting it to cut in half…and so it did. Rand did it entirely on accident. If nothing else, ToM has proven that the true masters of T’a’R aren’t the humans who have spent centuries forcing it to their will, but the Wolves, because when a wolf dies, they join the others in T’a’R, and they share “tribal memory” if you will. Every wolf remembers what all the others remember, however vague it may be, back to the beginning. (And if anyone thinks it unrealistic, look at the creatures in our world who have proven they have genetic memory as a species.)
      So, if Perrin faced Ben in T’a’R, he would simply have to decide he really wasn’t there…

      As much as I would argue in favor of neutral ground, it’s impossible unless you have two people (excuse me Martin) of the same class of abilities facing off against one another. I would find this far more realistic and entertaining if the write-ups were done (BY PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY READ THE BOOKS) in such a way that instead of this little short story, there are two writers going back and forth. There is a fan fic group (there’s only 7 of us left), and we’ve been doing this for well over 15 years: someone will write something, then someone would add something else to it, and the other person would come back with something else. They did that kind of thing in “Thieves’ World”, where the writers could do whatever in their short story, even to the other participants characters, the only rule being no killing off without the creator of the character agreeing to it. THAT is the way this should be. Not all these write-ups by people killing off everyone to finish their stories. The ending of the write-ups shouldn’t come until the voting is over. PERIOD.

      For those who have said that Perrin could pull Ben into T’a’R, he can’t. Rand and Egwene (and the Chosen for that matter) are Channelers and can open Gateways. The way Slayer was created makes him unique in his ability to “step in or out” of T’a’R. Perrin can ONLY enter T’a’R in the Wolf Dream. So the possibility of him dragging Ben into it is impossible.

      Since it’s a debate, my time is up for this turn. Time to allow for rebuttals…

      And I won’t dignify the post of another by commenting on it any more than this: Karma’s a bitch…

    • Kristi Deming

      @Archon I apparently missed the Jon v Vin match, so to answer your line of thought, this is one person who doesn’t vote one way just because she’s told to. I base my votes entirely on my knowledge of the characters (and if I don’t know anything about them, I research before casting my vote) and the logic and common sense of where the matches are taking place. (Example: for Wizard’s Fire to work, they would have to be in the SoT universe, in which case, Vin’s abilities would have no effect because of the deterioration of magic thanks to Kahlan and the Chimes.) My biggest bitch will always be the Covenant/Alvin Maker match: one, it proved that the writer never read the Covenant books (or they would have known that Covenant’s Unbelief was gone by the end of the 2nd book); two, Covenant would have never just given up…he would have had a very short life as a Leper if that was the case!; and three, when Covenant does finally surrender his ring, it’s to Foul who promptly kills Covenant, only to find out that because Covenant broke all the Laws (especially the ones of Life and Death), his death acts as a catalyst to forge him literally into the White Gold. He IS the Ring, he IS the Arch of Time, so giving the ring to Alvin would have accomplished nothing.)

      Oh and as much as I loved the final write-up for last year’s match (You’ve been C’thulhued!), I think it crossed the line that for there to be a winner, they had to pull out an AoG (Act of God)…or should it be AoOO (Act of an Old One)? I can’t stand Balefire because most people really can’t visualize the ramifications it would actually have on things…and it’s just another cheap-ass cop out. (Besides, Rand ISN’T insane, so he wouldn’t be immune to C’thulhu!) (Yes, I just had to add that in….)

    • Archon

      @ Tony

      My fault, poor word choice… I should have said what I meant in that Vin is a better character in cage-match terms… She simply auto-wins against John… and I am a huge ASoIaF fan…


      Given that the WoT community has now put Perrin in front of “The obvious choice”… I have to call shenanigans on your claim…

      @ Kristi Deming

      It’s refreshing to see an honest WoT fan on here who actually knows what they are talking about and doesn’t staight out lie about their fave to make them sound like they would have a chance when they clearly don’t. I wouldn’t call myself a fan of WoT, it’s just not my cup of tea… but I have read them and it was clear as day that these things do not work like so many on here are suggesting that they do… BTW, is your fan-fic group open to anyone to view? It sounds like you guys have a pretty interesting story to read…

    • Ni the Real World

      I really don’t know who Perrin is, and judging by some of the comments here, if he gets to pull Quick Ben into TAR (or whatever it’s called, I don’t know WoT), he has a chance to win. It’s his dream or something.

      But that’s assuming Quick Ben would let him do it. Quick’s a cheater after all, plus he’s got brains, and unless Perrin can outwit him, Perrin would not be able to pull QB into TAR because QB simply won’t allow it.

    • darren

      i cant believe there arent more wot fans out there!!!!!!!!!!

    • Shancaldazar


      First of all the the majority of WoT fans have read mistborn because that was one of the few books brandon had out when it was announced that he would be taking over the WoT series, so we of course helped out Vin who should have rightfully won. There is no denying that the WoT Community is the reason Vin won 🙂
      For this cage match however perrin was winning in the begining but fell behind because not everyone in the WoT community supported him again QB because QB is the obvious choice, and still not everyone in the WoT community feels that perrin should win. However after gethbox made his comment votes for perrin surged cause of how disgusted with him they were.

    • Archon

      @ Shancaldazar

      I see… just ignoring the fact that your fan base had already nearly closed a 1000 point gap even before that comment was made… you’re saying that, as a fanbase, your principles can be swayed as easily as having an anonymous “fan” make a disgusting comment? It’s too bad I didn’t know that before the first round… I could have had the WoT fanbase ride Druss all the way to the finals by logging on with some bogus name and talking trash about David Gemmel…

    • Erunion

      Perrin isn’t able to pull QB into TAR. He might be able to convince someone else to do it for him, but it’s just not plausible enough.
      I had intended to not vote on this match as I am a WOT fan (and didn’t want to vote against Perrin), but couldn’t possibly vote for Perrin as he’s just too outmatched. Alas, this poll is getting to close, so I broke down and voted Quick Ben.
      WOT fans (like me!), please, if Perrin loses we’ll see a Snow vs. Aybara consolation match + a Vin vs. QB final match. One or both of these matches will get (highly entertaining) write ups from Brandon Sanderson.
      A Perrin vs. Vin match? Boring. Sanderson would be too split to do a write-up (probably).

      The obvious conclusion? Vote Quick Ben. Not only will the ‘right’ people win – we could get some very fun write-ups.

      Remember last year, with the Rand vs. Jaime write-ups? One by both Authors? Jaime with a very cool trial of seven? Sanderson with his hilarious Rand wins-by-default because he’s crazy? (And yes, as of TGS Rand was bat-crap crazy. Admit it. I did.)

    • Terez

      I don’t think the Gethbox comment had anything to do with Perrin’s surge. After QB pulled ahead, some of the WoT powers that be tweeted the match. (Not me.) Most of the WoT powers that be are pulling for QB, from what I can tell, but there are a couple of stubborn ones. 😉

    • Shancaldazar

      @ Archon

      I can only speak from what i have been hearing from other WoT fans but a lot of them are rather upset over the comment insulting Robert Jordan, and are not voting for QB because of how insulting it was.

      And your second point is completely invalid. Why would the WoT as a group care about you insulting David Gemmel. I like David Gemmel and i’m sure other people would be upset over that comment too. The WoT community isn’t out to defend every single author’s “honor” but we take it as a personal insult when people are saying that it’s a good thing that our favorite author, Robert Jordan, died. I have no clue where you got the idea that if you insulted David Gemmel that the WoT Fanbase would vote Mr. Gemmel’s character up.

    • Archon

      @ Terez

      I’d agree…

    • Archon

      Oh… I thought that the WoT fanbase felt that because he made disgusting comments about a beloved author who died, it was worth reversing their principles for… I didn’t realize that the WoT fanbase thinks that it’s only disgusting enough to warrant a reversal of their principles if it’s disgusting comments made about THEIR beloved dead author…

      So your outrage at a heinous act is selective to certain people?! Otherwise, who cares?! Sorry… doesn’t wash… sounds like an excuse to me. And apparently to others on here as well…

    • Starmsmith

      So, am I the only one that thinks it strange that the wolves embrace Perrin as their own in the Dream World no matter what form he takes, and that they do most things by scent, and yet they fall for a silly image trick? I think not. The link between Perrin and the wolves is much stronger than what the eyes can see.

    • Luci

      *some stuff spoiled above somewhere*
      It’s not so much that I expect people to avoid spoilers, more just that people try to avoid making them overly specific. Knowing QB fights Icarium is one thing. Knowing exactly when/why and that someone else interceeds is much more of a spoiler. And if you’re going to write that sort, try to warn people, it’s just polite 🙂
      *end spoilers*

      Sorry, but no 😛
      Taking away TAR does not equal taking away the warrens. Maybe taking away TAR equals taking away one of the warrens. Afterall each warren is a realm unto itself, as well as being a place to pull magic from regardless of what realm you’re in. TAR is a realm that only has effects on things in it. So taking away a warren for taking away TAR is still taking more away from Quick than Perrin. But Quick has nearly a dozen more. Want to be really, REALLY bias against QB? Fine, take away an additional warren for his hammer and a third for all his wolf powers, and a fourth for his luck thing (which apparently may not help much/at all anyway) and QB is now facing an unarmed and alone Perrin and he still has 8 warrens at his command.
      That’s not saying that you should take even more away from QB to make it fair (and doing so would simply be unfair to QB), that’s showing that QB simply has more at his disposal and that this is not a fair fight. Perrin has no chance.
      And as several people who seem to know what they’re talking about say that Perrin simply does not have the ability to force anyone into the dreamworld, I’m inclined to believe them. So don’t take any of it away at all.

      To those who think he couldn’t fool the wolves:
      It’s never specifically stated whether illusion includes scent, but it does do sound, so one can assume it covers both. And mockra (warran of the mind) could possibly convince the wolves if the illusion alone doesn’t. Also, with the warren of Serc (air) Quick could carry his scent to Perrin (if the illusions of Quick smelled like him, anyway, otherwise there’s no point, in which case Serc could possibly be used to hide Perrin’s scent temporarily). On top of that, they’re taking a huge liberty with refusing to make QB annihilate Perrin with one of those waves of energy that were destroying so many wolves.

    • Shancaldazar


      You are good at twisting words. I’ll give you that. But can you at least be respectful and disagree in a civil way like Terez instead of outright insulting everyone you possibly can? I will address what you said in your last comment now.

      First of all (according to terez) i was wrong about saying the surge was because of gethboxes comment, i apologize for that. You however, Archon, first get mad at me for saying the surge was becasue of gethbox’s comment and now are getting mad at me because supposedly the WoT Community responded because of an insult to their author, which of course implies that you believe the surge was due to the comment. So which do you really believe? Stop flip flopping. Second, if i insulted someone close to you, you would not only be mad at me but most likely respond, whether in attacking me, rebuking me or whatever. If i insulted a friend of one of your friends (someone you really didn’t know that well or care that much about) you wouldn’t condone the behavior and may say wow who would do that, but you wouldn’t come and find me and attack me. Much the same way those who are close to RJ wouldn’t seek revenge for an author they may not know much about but as any moral human would, they would not condone the rude comments.

    • Archon

      @ Shancaldazar

      Alright man, I’ll give you that, I was probably being too harsh with that line… it just struck me as stange how flabbergasted you were at the thought of being so outraged for statements against another author in nearly an identical situation to yours… I know what you meant… It’s just that Gethbox’s comments were universally heinous, and when you take the moral highground against some kind of heinous act, you really can’t keep the moral high-ground if your outrage is conditional to who that act was commited against… If somebody on the news commits an attrocity, do you wait to see who the victim was before you decide how reprehensible the act was and how outraged you should be? Of course not. Should their punishment be less because it was commited against someone you barely know as opposed to a good friend? Of course not… a reprehensible act is reprehensible regardless… it just struck me as odd how you seemed so non-chalant about such a reprehensible act (and how you would respond so differently) if it were perpetrated against a different author in this very tournament… Of course somebody closer to you is going to illicit more emotion than somebody else, that’s the PERSONAL side of reaction… But the MORAL side is based on opposition to the act itself… So, again, if you’re going to claim the moral high-ground, then you have to be consistent to keep it.

    • Archon

      @ Shancaldazar

      Oh yes… I didn’t actually say it…

      My apologies. I was indeed to harsh.

    • Dave

      I love WoT. I gave up on the Mazalan books halfway through them because I just didn’t want to read any more about a world that bleak and even more difficult to keep track of everything than WoT. But Perrin wouldn’t win a cage match with an average Accepted, let alone Quick Ben.

    • Shancaldazar

      @ Archon

      Should their punishment be any less. I agree the answer is no. I probably could have explained that i was referring more to the emotional reaction, and that your response would be that much greater if it is someone close to you that is hurt. I in no way was trying to imply that certain acts are ok if committed against certain people. But of course, i repeat myself, you would feel a much greater emotional response if it was committed against someone close to you as opposed to a stranger, and thus be much more likely to do something in addition to calingl the person out on their heinous behavior.

    • Fox

      Ok, here’s a general question to all the T’A’R supporters out there: When, in all 13 WOT books has Perrin EVER forcibly dragged someone else from their own private dreaming minds, into T’A’R? Egwene was trained to do so by the Wise Ones, but neither Elyas nor Hopper ever taught Perrin to do that. So once again, without Egwene (or someone else) helping him, he cannot bring ANYONE into the World of Dreams, be it physically or not.

      Now, to those of you who haven’t read MBotF, you should know that Quick DOES actually have experience with Astral Projection and the Malazan version of a World of Dreams, which would count for at least enough to allow him to get away before Perrin kicks his but too badly. Once out of T’A’R, well, then there’s no chance for Perrin.

      One final comment:

      @ Manetheren & @ Archon: You’ve both given your opinion MORE than enough times, and we all know where you stand, so PLEASE just stop posting so the rest of us don’t have to read the same flaming comments over and over again.

      That is all.

      Thank you.

    • Archon

      @ Dave

      I think you mean “Ascended”… but you’re right. On all counts. MBotF is VERY bleak at times (the second book, Deadhouse Gates, is simply a suck-fest of despair and depression)… and it is far more ranging in scope than WoT, making it difficult to follow everything without taking notes… and no, Perrin wouldn’t win a cage match against an average ascended, or any number of people in the series who are far less formidable than Quick Ben…

    • Shane


      I am not trying to convince myself Perrin could win this. I for one could care less if he was going up against Quick Ben or Jesus. I’ve yet to read any of the Malazan books, So I vote for the character I know and somewhat love over the character I know nothing about.

      Fanboy? Yes.

    • Archon

      5 vote difference at this point… If I were to ignore the fact that Ben should be obliterating Perrin and just look at the contest from a vote standpoint, I would have to admit that this is a pretty exciting battle … Much like the Vin/Snow fight, even if the real contest should be a foregone conclusion, the voting is making for a really epic competition. If they could write a battle write-up based off of the way the voting went for these matchups, these two semifinals would be some great reads.

    • Archon


      Fair enough… at least you’re honest. As long as you’re true to yourself I can respect that… it’s the people that try to kid themselves and/or everyone else with bogus reasons and/or lies that I feel compelled to call out. Plus, those make for good debates… can’t really debate with someone who says; “Yep, I’m a fanboy and I vote accordingly.” No real counter-argument there 😉

    • AHEM

      It looks like this match is quite evenly matched so far, votes wise. Both have taken the lead, but now, it’s right at the edge between them. This semifinal is going to be anybody’s game, just like Vin vs. Jon Snow.

      This year’s cage match has some pretty freaking exciting semifinals . . . can’t wait for the actual finals.

    • Matthew

      If this was in the Wolf Dream there would be no contest.

    • Archon

      Yes… and if it were in the shadow-realm it would be no contest either… or if Perrin had Matt’s medallion… or if Quick had the Bridgeburners with him… or if all of Perrin’s wolves could shoot laserbeams out of their eyes… Or if Anomander Rake decided to pretend he was Quick Ben for purposes of this contest… Or if Perrin’s hammer automatically negated the abilities of anyone from any Steven Erickson series… Or if Quick could perform a physical gestalt with himself and Karsa Orlong…

    • Radmer

      It will be a great match, vin vs quick ben. And one not only based on popularity. I think there both great charcters and very powerfull. Let’s hope they will win because both jon snow and perrin aybara are not worthy to become finalist. Just look at there powers and you know why. That doesn’t mean that they ain’t verry good characters and that there stories ain’t cool but they just don’t posses the power to defeat vin or quick ben.

    • Terez

      @som1else – You shouldn’t have felt obligated. I’m the one who rallied the WoT fanbase for Vin, but I’m supporting Quick Ben, as are many other WoT fans. I think most of the WoT fans who voted for Vin are actually Vin fans. I just brought the match to their attention. I doubt they voted for her simply because I suggested it.

      I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that Perrin would win in TAR. Skill there is simply a matter of thought, and QB is one of the quickest thinkers in fantasy fiction. Rand and Egwene were able to figure out some of the basics of TAR just by experimentation, and I have no doubt QB could do the same, and much better.

      Aside from that, the only way to get QB into TAR is via gateway, and it’s very different when you’re there in the flesh; your powers are diminished somewhat, but if you channel, then you channel more strongly than you would if you were there dreaming. Then you run into the logistics issue – QB wouldn’t be able to access his warrens in Randland, and Perrin wouldn’t be able to access TAR on Wu.

      Anyway, people keep bring up the TAR thing because it’s the only conceivable way that Perrin could win, aside from ta’verenness which is, in my opinion, pretty cheap in the context of the cage match. It has justifications in the plot but here it’s just an automatic ‘I win’ thing. Too easy, and too boring. QB is the stronger opponent by far in this match; any scenario that has Perrin winning requires too much stretching to make the circumstances in his favor.

    • Justfunnin

      I think all the WOT community leaders who are pushing for Quick Ben should be tried by the community at Jordancon, for Treason and Crimes against the Fandom. If you can’t make it, you shall be tried in abstentia. You all are great and all but this flippant disregard for blindly voting for WOT characters is deeply deeply disturbing.

    • Serious Terez

      I think that Perrin would be ashamed of all of you blind voters! If it was up to Perrin, he would just surrender, partly because he doesn’t want to die, but mostly he doesn’t care about anyone’s stupid games. Faile is the only thing that is important. Moreover, since we won last year, it’s just greedy to insist upon winning again just because we can. Everybody knows we can. They saw how we increased Vin’s lead by over 3000 votes in a matter of hours. Perrin says, enough is enough! May the best man win!

    • yeah, technically the ta’veren-ness only works if ‘the Wheel wills’, so depending on the timing of the match, Perrin could quite possibly be unneeded by the wheel, and thus disposable quite easily. He does have a kick-ass hammer though 😀

    • Ty

      I’m a huge WoT fan However Perrin is the worst character in the book by far, he spent a solid two books crying over his wife and how bad of a leader he was and sorts of shit. It was absolutely painful to read his chapters, i will be disappointed if he wins this

    • yocxl

      Ty – that’s why Perrin was chosen, I think. He’s a well-liked character, my personal favorite, but far less universally loved than say Rand or Mat. I’d assume Suvudu chose him so that WoT was represented with a well-liked character but one that would give other characters a better chance of not being destroyed.

    • Onslaught

      I’ve read both series and I don’t see how anyone could think Perrin could win this match. Perrin would get killed by a novice let alone fighting someone as strong as Rand.

    • dpomerico

      @Jmull — the reason we haven’t offered brackets with more parity is because we feel that’s how brackets tend to go: there are low seeds and high seeds (granted, this time around we didn’t have seeds, but we will next year).

      The other reason, though, is because we feel one of the great things about fantasy and science fiction is finding out how the farm boy could defeat the god, or how the slave could overcome the more powerful master. I honestly believe that Martin could take out some of the characters he did–because I believe in the magic that is his character, and his ability to overcome great obstacles. I think Perrin could–if the opportunity was right–beat Quick Ben, just like I think Jon Snow could, in the rarest of circumstances, beat Vin.

      Part of the fun for us is to try to figure out what those rare moments would be–and then have you all tell us how wrong we are!

      Of course, we know people are often going to vote for the character they like more anyway, but that’s essentially our mission.

    • yocxl

      Also – questioning people’s integrity based on answers to stupid online polls? Not taking this too seriously are we?

    • Well, what do you know

      WoT fans are now advertising how to cheat on a Facebook page.

    • Bauchelain

      What. You’re joking right?

    • Scott

      I like Wheel of Time and Ice and Fire, but it really is shocking that Jon and Perrin made it this far, especially considering they had to go through Paul and Beowulf to get there. People seem to make these cage matches into popularity contests, despite the fact that the competition is framed as a death match, not a popularity contest. Jon seems to have lost his match, and if there is any sanity left in this world, Perrin will lose this one too. If this was Matt or Rand I might be persuaded to vote differently, but it stretches plausibility past the breaking point that *Perrin* could stand up to the likes of Paul or Ben and win.

    • Bill

      Schizophreniac and paranoid delusional fanatic versus bearded wolf-man with an axe. How could this get any better?

    • “Schizophreniac and paranoid delusional fanatic”

      Quick Ben is none of these things. What are you smokin’?

    • archon

      @ Bill

      Which match would you be referring to? This match contains neither of those things…The first representation doesn’t describe anyone in this tournament… the second one is close to Perrin, but he uses a hammer, not an axe…

    • kaostoste

      lol, it’s not delusional when you actually do have 12 souls in your body

    • archon

      To those calling for seperation of sword and sorcery in these cage matches… Unnecessary. The Suvudu peeps just have to expand their reading to include any number of characters in fantasy literature who are basically immune to magic. If they throw one or two of those into any tournament, it changes the dymamics of the whole thing… ignoring the popularity vote, which sometimes wins and sometimes doesn’t, If Rand fights Karsa Orlong (or anyone with an otataral blade) or Quick Ben fights Matt, and those fights happen in rounds one or two of their respective tournaments, you have a whole new wide open bracket…

    • Tyler

      I love Perrin as a Character, and his abilities are freaking sweet! However, from what I hear about Quick ben, he would demolish him. I will not read the books that QB is in, b/c I am not into the ‘depressing’ books. I like Books of hope. WOT has its depressing moments, but over all there is hope instilled in the series… enough ranting, you guys don’t care. QB’s power is just overwhelming, Perrin’s Taavren (something like that) would allow him to dodge some of the attacks, but I am not sure that it would work on the planet where the match it taking place, as it would be outside of the pattern, and eventually, QB would catch up with Perrin.

      I am a huge WOT fan, and i had to vote AGAINST one of my favorite characters, because there is no way he could win. If QB was against ant of the three girls, Rand, or say, one of the Forsaken, I think he would have his but handed to him on a silver platter, but that is not the case. He is fighting a character who has no magical abilities that would give him an edge at all (unless a wolf saw QB in the forest and alerted him to where he was at, which probably wouldn’t make a difference anyway as QB would be able to use the warrens against him.

      Sorry Perrin, you do not have a chance at winning, please give up the match, and run back to Randland. Rand needs you at the last battle! 😉

    • squeegweasel

      Screw how powerful Quick Ben is. Is he worst than slayer? Go perrin ftw

    • Obdigore


      Icarium Lifestealer would win this tournament, and if he ran up against anyone strong, destroy the entire universe while doing it.

      I dont think Rand vs Karsa would be very fair, as Karsa would ignore rand’s magic, Karsa is a better swordsman, stronger and faster, and frankly I think that two hounds of shadow would tear Rand apart.

      How the Perrin VS QB match would actually go, giving Perrin his ‘lucky’ status and even if is hammer soaked up all magic:

      Perrin stands there, not wanting to fight, but knowing his opponant would end him without a thought to survive, he knew what he must do. He called his brothers, the wolves. Perrin smirked as wave after wave of foreign sorcery soaked into his hammer, harming him not at all.

      Quick was a little startled, as he had felt nothing special about that hammer, but obviously it was protecting that lumberjack looking fellow just fine. QB wondered what lumberjack used a hammer, then noticed the wolves flooding into the stadium. He had not called them, so he had to assume they were hostile. He lifted an acorn and whispered a warning into it, then caused the ground around him to break off and lift into the sky. Riding his very own personal skykeep was fun, but it wasn’t going to win the fight.

      Quick decided to use just one warren in case future combantants were watching, and caused the ground under the bearded one to crack open in a depthless fissure, sending the man and his hammer down to his death.

      Perrin barely grabbed a ledge just down from the opening in the ground. He seemed to have snagged his hammer on it and used that to pull himself up. Lucky again. As he started climing out he saw his dark skinned rival have a small look of suprise, then clapped his hands and the fissure slammed shut, Perrin barely flipping himself out before he was crushed. His brothers could not reach the man floating on the island above the arena, and then he heard his name screamed from the stands.

      Falie came barreling out of the stands, a crossbow in her hand and an idea in her head. He better listen to her this time! She felt a slight tug, then someone hugged her from behind, and her neck grew hot. She tried to turn to see who was interrupting her but she lost control of her legs and fell to the ground, twisting as she did. A large bearish man stood over her, sadness in his eyes. It was obvious he was defending his friends, as she would defend Perrin.

      Quick watched Kalam stop the fight from being interrupted, then saw the bearded one charge his friend, murder in his stance. Quick decided that he would have to save Kalam again…

      Kalam watched the man charging him, prepared to defend himself, and saw all the wolves charging him as well. He thought that it might get interesting, and then Quicks floating rock landed on the large man, and Quick stepped out of a warren next to him, already sending waves of fire at the wolves flying at them.

      The wolves were destroyed, and no one else seemed likely to interfer. Quick and Kalam walked over to Perrin, and were quite suprised to see him alive. Quick turns to Kalam and says ‘He is almost as hard to kill as you seem to be, friend.’ A grunt from Kalam, and the two Malazans walk off, victory assured while still allowing the pattern of the other dimension to not be torn.

    • Obdigore

      PS – at all the people saying Malazan is depressing… you didn’t finish it. Please don’t comment on it. There is nothing terrible that happens that does not matter to the series.

      Erikson is an amzing author. If you dont laugh, feel sadness, and feel shame when he wants you two, you either aren’t reading the books or are some sort of cold blooded lizard person that Morgan needs for his next book.

    • champooon

      to those who thing the malazan series is depressing… utter bewildering…

      the final book… for those who haven’t read it is all about heroics… final stands – mortal human soldiers – spitting in the eyes of gods and beings of power unimagineable…

      and what do they get as a reward for the suffering they go through… oh… only saving the world…

      how that message can be depressing to anyone… well… give your head a wobble 🙂

    • Starvinator

      Perrin all the way. Also I have to wonder how a sorccerer who can teleport a moon into a planet and destroy it gets taken out by a guy with 12 souls. Not only that PUG had tonnes of experience fighting Laso Varen so it should have been a cake walk.

    • Yeah, to those who said the Malazan series is depressing.


      The Malazan books have some of the MOST UPLIFITNG stuff I have ever read in a book series about humanity and how we interact with one another. Does rough stuff happen? Yeah, is it all like that? HELL NO! If you haven’t read the whole series, don’t comment. In fact, even in the 3rd book of the series there is some pretty damn heroic stuff that is quite uplifting,

      Wheel of time may have less of the grittier edged stuff than Malazan book do, but to be honest Erikson is the superior writer when it comes to humanity and the good and bad we do to each other. It is deftly woven and more emotional on MANY levels than a lot of series can be, including WOT.

      The Malazan books may have made me emotional at times, but I have NEVER been depressed or felt depressed by reading them.

    • Brian

      @Well what do you know
      I’m a follower of WoT on Facebook and I don’t see that anywhere. I don’t know where you’re getting this from.

    • @starvinator

      Quick Ben doesn’t JUST have 12 souls….he can manipulate that many warrens (forms of magic), he has defied, gods, fought dragons and stood up to countless enemies, he is the trickiest mage that the empire has ever produced and had Pug teleported a moon at him (or his planet), he would have opened a warren and let the moon slide past him, closed the gap and kept coming at Pug, so please….

      Pug was childs play….and Perrin is even less of a contest than Pug was. Perrin would die in seconds. Quick would hardly even have to blink to take him out.

    • Archon

      @ Obdigore

      Agreed… Icarium or Rake would own this tourney, which is kind of why I’m glad they’re not in it this time… nothing to debate 😉

      As for Rand Vs Karsa… That’s the point I was making about not needed to seperate the swordsmen from the sorcerers, as several have pointed out should be done… There are swordsmen who can quite easily take even the most powerful sorcerers… The suvudu guys just haven’t included any of them.

      Also @ Champooon

      The Malazan series on the whole is a thrilling adventure that showcases tremendous strength of character on the parts of so many individuals and the ultimate triumph of spirit and soul… but in order to make a story of that magnitude, Erickson does have to drag you through the gutter of spiritual depression for referrence purposes… Don’t get me wrong… I love that it goes that way and I completely enjoyed reading those parts as part of the story as a whole… Example; Deadhouse Gates, the second book, is a fantastic story with Coltaine and the chain of dogs… but holy crap is it ever a series of suckfests for those people with the ultimate suckfest as a reward…

    • Terez

      @Brian – they weren’t on the main Facebook page, but on a smaller group that is apparently populated by some petty, hateful people. They just deleted their main post about cheating, but the page is filled with people who apparently think I deserve to die because I voted for QB instead of Perrin (and because I had the nerve to try to rally support for QB among WoT fans).

    • Archon

      @ Starvinator

      You’re simply making excuses and hypocritical rationale to vote for Perrin… Even if you think that Pug should have beat Quick Ben, which is admittedly not inconceivable, There ‘s no freaking way in hell that Perrin would have ever beaten Paul, so by your own rationale, you shouldn’t be supporting Perrin either…

    • @ Terez and yet some of the folks there have not been informed of the cheating post vanishing and are asking where the post went. Not entirely that smart. Because it proves the post was there. LMAO!

      There is some chick there saying that the post at to support Quick Ben doesn’t matter because they have “superior numbers”….

      How every interesting…considering that I think we can get a number of Jon Snow’s fans and the like on our side. So to that chick…Amanda I think her name is…your numbers mean very little my dear…but I find it quaint that you think they do. LOL

      Quick Ben FTW baby!

    • tuesdayb4lunch

      Does the moron boat actually have 5,000+ people on it. C’mon how is Perrin even in this thing, One he sucks, Two he is a chump boy with no power but emo’ing it up with wolves. This isn’t a contest, its like watching a retarded kid fight the terminator.

      So if you have not already realized it; Perrin sux, WOT sux, and if you voted against Quick Ben you suck.

    • Malazanftw

      WOT is crap, anyone who can actually get behind that series is a fool.

    • Mike

      Voted Perrin in a ridiculous display of fandom. My far fetched justification is as follows: Rand shows up with the Supergirls and the Black Tower because he needs Perrin for the Last Battle.

      Hey, no such thing as cheating when death is on the line.

    • Wow, there is a lot of vitriol at that WOT FB page. (beyond being uber nasty about Terez)

      The aforementioned chick said something about Sanderson should be doing nothing other than writing AMOL (the final WOT book). Wow, how very kind of her. LOL!

      Whatever. They can delete the post all they like but the member’s there keep showing up wondering where it went. LOL

      It’s like a 3 stooges routine.

    • Terez

      Jeez people, cool it with the insults. Just because someone votes based on their favorite books doesn’t make them an idiot. And what about being a WoT fan makes one a moron, exactly? It’s a fantastic series, and more difficult to keep up with than most.

    • Agreed. WOT is actually a very good series overall (minus a few of the filler books). Perrin just wouldn’t win against QB. Nuff said.

      I say rip on the matter at hand..and that’s Perrin. Rip on him I sayeth!

    • Ausk

      It okay Malazan fans, QB is winning. No need to act offended that some people choose to vote for their favorite character instead of your beloved QB. Beside Vin will win it all anyway.

    • Trev

      Hey Jess….BUSTED.

      From the WOT FB page:

      hey, look at the post terez put up about the match…..and us: Terez says:
      April 1, 2011 at 1:22 pm

      @Brian – they weren’t on the main Facebook page, but on a smaller group that is apparently populated by some petty, hateful people. They just deleted their main post about cheating, but the page is filled with people who apparently think I deserve to die because I voted for QB instead of Perrin (and because I had the nerve to try to rally support for QB among WoT fans).
      4 minutes ago

    • Trev

      Like we aren’t aware of the FB page and watching it. haha!

    • Trev

      Also this from the FB page about Terez…

      “yeah, whoever said that wasn’t exactly being kind…..however, I would agree with calling for her resignation as a leader in the WoT fanbase. You stick with your side, regardless. If you can’t, vote in private, or don’t vote at all.”
      about a minute ago

      You got that? RESIGNATION as leader….because of a website poll. WTF is that about? How messed up are you darlin’?

    • Dave

      Really, I don’t think anyone in the WoT universe short of post-Towers of Midnight Zen Rand would have a chance against Quick Ben (or any top-tier Mazalan mage), short of a channeler getting a lucky blast of balefire in on him (and that’s assuming the basic WoT property of balefire being pretty much unstoppable holds) or an expert dreamworld manipulator (and Perrin isn’t one; Egwene is) staging the confrontation there. Magic is just generally more powerful and flexible in the Mazalan universe than it is in the Wheel of Time universe. Perrin doesn’t have any special abilities to deal with magic (Mat does, in his medallion), so he’d have trouble with an even marginally compent magic-user in his own universe (my hypothetical average Accepted); facing an extrodinarily skilled weilder of a magic more powerful (in most respects) than the One Power, he’s toast.

      This doesn’t keep WoT from being much more enjoyable to read, even when Perrin is being emo.

    • Archon

      (Points at Dave’s post)


    • Cicero

      @WoT fringe Facebook page Terez haters: calling for her resignation is absolutely absurd. If Perrin were to make it to the final match against Vin, what would you do if Sanderson came out and endorsed Vin..? (Which, let’s be honest, no matter how rabid a fan you are, you MUST acknowledge that there’s very little chance Perrin could stand against a Mistborn.) Would you call for his resignation?

      Just because you’re a fan community leader does not mean you are not entitled to an opinion slightly more nuanced than “OMGZZZZ YES PERRRRIIIN!!!”

    • WOTislame

      I just love sorry A$* WOT is finally losing at something. Thats a +1 for things that are not crap.

      Strangely enough it seems that not all WOT fans are rabid drooling fanboys. Good on all you WOT boys who realize that WOT characters suck when placed next to any non-twilight characters.

    • WOTislame

      I cant say im suprised the WOT fans are turning on each other. To Terez I would say take this oportunity to drop those fools.

    • Matt

      when are the next matches up?

    • WOT fandom

      Brandon actually stated he doesnt even really care for both Vin and Perrin to make it. WIth Vin already in, I would much prefer the writeup of Vin vs quickben for the finals and Perrin vs Jon for the consolation round… and I am a huge sucker for WOT.

      changing my vote(s) to quickben

    • Terez

      @Wotislame – I’m not voting for QB because Perrin sucks. He doesn’t suck. I’m voting for QB because he would beat Perrin in a fight. Please try to lay off the insults; they don’t endear you to anyone, even Malazan fans who don’t like WoT much.

      @Matt – The next match will be the final. We’re not sure when it will be up – probably some time next week (this match closes on Sunday).

    • Perrin is pretty OK

      @dave “an expert dreamworld manipulator (and Perrin isn’t one; Egwene is) ”

      No clue where you are coming from with that comment if you have you read ToM. He dominates in dreamworld.

    • Terez

      @PerrinisprettyOK – Brandon said so himself:

      “Perrin does something different. Also, Egwene was caught off guard and had been spending a lot of time lately doing other things. It would be unwise to assume that Perrin is better at Tel’aran’rhiod than she is because of that moment. He had just spent weeks training specifically to fight like that in Tel’aran’rhiod, while Egwene has been forced to fight other fights and let herself get a tad rusty.”

    • Yocxl

      Terez (and anyone else it may concern) – I’m sorry you got the wrong idea about the fanpage. Generally it’s a not-so-negative place and the members are all generally very nice people who have excellent discussions about the series we love. While I don’t agree with the idea of somebody so well-known in WoT fandom actively campaigning against Perrin, the threats and calls for resignation from your “position” are bloody ludicrous. It’s a stupid online poll, people. I have no idea why everybody is getting so damn worked up about it. I didn’t make any threats, so I can’t apologize for them, but sorry that you’re getting the wrong idea.

      Also, the post may well have disappeared, as opposed to being deleted – several of my recent posts, both in the group and elsewhere on Facebook – have disappeared for no reason in the past day or two and these Facebook errors seem to be more prevalent in groups. But I’m not an admin there and I’m not sure exactly who is, so I can’t say for sure that it wasn’t deleted.

      Suvudu – I hate to say it, but I’m really starting to dislike the Cage Match. It was really fun up until this time around, with all the logic vs. popularity debates and all the ridiculous behavior on all sides (threats, generally taking it way too seriously) and the cheating… That’s one major thing that should be addressed if you do another one. Require registration and limit each account to one vote per match. That won’t eliminate cheating entirely, but it would probably cut down drastically. I know for a fact that WoT fans have cheated in this. I don’t have evidence that Malazan fans cheated, but if not one of them has I’ll eat my hat. If one side does it, I’m sure other sides do too. As a huge WoT fan and a huge Perrin fan, I would much rather Perrin lose fairly than have it become a match of “whose fans have enough time on their hands to cheat their character to victory?”.

      I dunno. Everybody’s just getting way too into this in the worst possible way and it’s really getting stupid. I like the Cage Match, it should be fun, but people seriously need to lighten up a bit, and something should be done about the multiple-vote exploitation.

      It’s a series of silly online polls, people, cut the crap…

    • Shancaldazar

      @Malazanftw, WOTislame and other haters.

      If the WoT series is so bad than why is it more popular than Malazan, and why then is it considered one of the best modern fantasy series written? You may not like WoT, which is fine. Not everyone likes the same things. For example i find Call of duty a boring game and would much prefer a puzzle to it. But calling it stupid because i don’t like it is not true, as it had been proven to be the most successful FPS game.

    • Matt

      when are next matches?

    • Yocxl

      Are posts disappearing here now too?


    • Terez

      You might have to remove your suvudu cookies to see new comments. I’m not sure, but I think it might have something to do with their poll security (flawed as it is).

    • dpomerico

      The final and consolation match goes up on Wednesday, April 6th.

      You need to clear your cache if you aren’t seeing updated comments. Sorry for the glitch–we’re working on it.

    • Omer

      I hope that next time they’ll put Mat into the cage match.

    • Jlingo

      So Perrin needed a pack of wolves to beat a Kender, then he should not have beaten Paul but gets help from the WoT Twilight girl like Fanboys, then he moves on after beating a mouse (No offense Martin) and now he is facing Quick Ben who would obliterate him in under ten seconds. This has to be the one of the lamest characters on here who whines about his wife all the time. Take the Perrin posters down from your bedroom WoT Fanboys!!

    • Jmull

      @ dpomerico
      Haha, fair enough. I certainly respect the spirit in which this is done. These books represent each of us in various and sundry ways, and who wouldn’t put their own spirit first regardless of innate ability? If it were up to me, Tehol Beddict (from the same Malazan series) would win all. Or maybe Kvothe. Or Kruppe. Or even Locke Lamora. Comedy is always best anyway.

      @Kristi Deming
      You make a good point about TAR. Though, I still do not concede the issue. Quick never goes anywhere unprepared. But, I do take back the “dominate” part.

    • Ausk

      are you here to vote for anyone or are you here to make the same dumb comments over and over again?Do you even read fantasy?

    • Archon

      @ Wotislame

      Boy… that’s not a transparent strategy at ALL… attempt to fire up the WoT fanbase to come on here and vote for their boy by talking crap about their series… that’s NEVER been done before with any other such competition… you’re such a clever originator…

      Hang on… I think my eyes just rolled out of my head…

    • Ausk

      @ Archon

      Is that really what Wotislame is trying to do? Wow, that actually kind of make sense. Too bad it not really working.

    • No, what is funny is that SOME of the WOT fans are now denouncing this round as not fun…because Perrin is losing.

      Ouch, da sour grapes. Dey taste-a funny!

    • trench


      lmao, you just made my day

    • Archon

      What’s the link to this particular WoT facebook fansite? It sounds like a riot…

    • Sosei

      To start off, I’m a big fan of the WoT series. And I really don’t like people referring to “fanboy stupidity” when it comes to Perrin winning these fights. Oh and by the way, WoT had been out for 15 years when Twilight came out if I’m not mistaken. So don’t compare us to Twilight Fangirls.

      Perrin can beat Tas, no contest. He may be one of the most awesome characters in Dragonlance, but he aint no fighter.

      Paul on the other hand is more uncertain, in a one-on-one scenario, before Paul becomes blind, Paul would win hands down. But if Paul IS blind PAUL would lose. A one-on-one fight against a blind Paul is the only fight that I can think of that Perrin’s Ta’veren-ness would affect the fight in any way. As “bending the pattern around him” would mess up Paul future sight badly. Rendering him truly blind (and should therefore be left in the desert according Fremen law :p). So Perrin winning this fight is not THAT illogical.

      Martin is a mouse. Perrin wins. The end.

      Against Quick Ben logic says that Perrin should lose. Unless he can somehow convince Ben to not use Magic or bring him into TAR. Both of which are highly unlikely.

      But as these fights are determined by VOTES it pretty much comes down to a contest of who is the most popular character.

      The only non-channeler WoT who could stand up to Ben in the waking world is Mat. End of story.
      Immune to magic + several lifetimes of combat experience + armed to the teeth + unending supply of luck = win

    • A Wheel of Time Fan

      War does not determine who is right – only who is left. ~Bertrand Russell

      That being said, when at war, stick with your side, your family, your friends, your champions… forgoe their company will surely lead to personal atrocity. WoT needs to prove absolutely nothing to any of you rabid virtual activists. WoT has championed the last two cage matches, and is making one hell of a run at the third. Our Author, Rigney (not Sanderson), provided this world with a story of another….with such depth and clarity that it was able to connect with generations of readers, providing them hope in times of darkness, dreams in times of despair. You cannot and will not ever be able to match that. Regardless of this digital battlefield, our characters will live on far into our world’s future. How many others can make that claim with any clarity of vision based on established fact? I think we all have far better things to look forward to than refreshing our suvudu (archon) to determine if there is some person needing to be written at in such a provoking manner, over and over and over. Can’t we note that by acting and reacting we only continue to compel him to act? Vote for who you will but discontinue your presumption that you could ever change a true fan’s mind about who they would choose to win. You can never argue that out of us. I hold you in contempt, you who have insulted, you who have abused, you who give no thought to the purpose of the power to express an opinion.

      Decide, Vote, and Live for yourselves, dear reader. Dissuade not, but discuss, defer, & divest in joyful proclamation of support for a beloved character, champion, role model, & friend.

      Tai’Shar Manetheren!

      A Wheel of Time Fan

    • chosen

      Now thats a true fan. Very well said.

    • Matt

      Well said A Wheel of Time Fan, I agree with everything you said. Thank you.

    • Fortuona Paendrag

      @A Wheel of Time Fan
      you said that very nicely 🙂 let us hope people take the advice 😀

    • Terez

      @Scott – Technically, their suspicion that Malazan fans were cheating (thus forcing them to sit at their computers and show some real dedication) was the reason it wasn’t fun for them any more, but I’m guessing the real reason it’s not fun for them any more because we called a lot of attention to their Facebook page and they apparently thought that no one really cared about their group or was paying attention. What they didn’t realize is that the ‘leaders’ of the fandom are very interested in every aspect of it and we browse around the various groups to see what they are saying sometimes. Sometimes we even try to get to know them. It’s hard keeping up with several busy forums, but some of us try, whatever that is worth. (surely not as much as Perrin votes!)

      Anyway, I think that this particular group had some vague angst against me beforehand, or a general angst against fans who like to argue in WoT discussion? I noticed that when I commented on someone’s status a couple of weeks ago. I think that probably about half the group has no idea who I am (if not most of them) and probably none of them know me all that well, but apparently a couple of them have run across me on forums before or others like me.

      The problem with WoT discussion forums is that the noobs feel ostracized – it’s a simple matter of the hive mind, and the effort it takes to tap into it – so they create noob support groups so that they can feel like they are a part of the community because the older members can’t even remember who they are half the time. I remember it, and I was in the Theoryland noob support group for a while (which was mostly the chat room, sometimes graced by the presence of older members, usually when they were bored at work). It’s hard to keep up with the noobs unless they distinguish themselves, and it’s much easier for a noob to do that in a negative way than in a positive way because we’ve already thought of everything that most noobs think of. By the time they start to dry out behind the ears, well…they’re not noobs any more. 🙂

      But apparently noob is a derogatory term. It’s hard for me to think of it that way since I embraced the term when I was still wet behind the ears. When I was raised to Ancient at Theoryland I still felt like a noob, partly because everyone else in my rank and above had been there so much longer than me, and partly because it was apparent that some of them still thought of me that way. Anyway, you can stay in the noob support group forever so long as you don’t want to get into serious WoT discussion. If you want to do that, you have to fight for recognition. 🙂

      In any case, someone from their group approached me on Twitter, and they were nice. And everyone cleaned up when the spotlight came down for the most part, rather than continuing to be silly. So I no longer feel angry about it.

    • Terez

      @wheeloftimefan – Do you really think I’m not a ‘true WoT fan’ because I think Quick Ben should win this match? Really? Because I didn’t ‘stick with my side’? People who have been doling out insults here have already been called out, and in a much less…insulting way. 😉

    • impartial


      I think you just proved their point. You are a leader in the WoT community, are you not? Soooooo, shouldn’t you support that little bit o mail? They didn’t call you out specifically and yet you reacted, so something struck a nerve. Isn’t it about dropping all this hate mail and trying to have a good time in this contest? I know who I voted for and it was for my reasons, and my reasons alone. But I’m not about to go out there and use it as a tool to work over my pov. Let fans support who they will. I do find it very odd that you had to make your support of QB so public. It just seems like it was ill conceived. People in your forums, facebooks, and twitters, look up to so-called ‘ancients’ like yourself and are fairly confused by your ill-will right now. I know I am, and i’m no where near a fanperson of either series. I second and support ‘A Wheel of Time Fan’s’ call to eliminate all this hate!

    • Terez

      Oh, they called me out specifically all day long. It’s a good enough reason to react, don’t you think? Why should I vote for Perrin just because I’m a leader of the WoT community? I’d rather support the notion that we should 1) read other books (even if WoT will always be our favorite), and 2) vote for other characters if we think they would win. What is wrong with making my support public? I wanted everyone to know I was supporting QB. It shouldn’t be so disturbing to you guys. As I said many times before, I never thought I would convince people to vote for someone they didn’t want to vote for. It’s more of a reaching out thing to all the other WoT fans who were voting for QB, letting them know they’re not traitors despite the hype. As a ‘leader’ of the WoT community, I think I have the right to do that. And anyone who read all of the hateful comments on the Facebook page before they were (mostly) deleted knows that I’m not the one with the ill will – far from it. But if people continue to try to suggest that I’m not a ‘real fan’ because I rallied support for QB, then I’m going to continue to get angry in a very justified way.

    • impartial

      @ Terez

      reread your third sentence there.

      Also, it looks like you are defending yourself. Further proving their point. People in the WoT Community look to you for guidance and you guided them away from their base, their support group to join the side of, what looks and reads like, a hate group that rails against WoT…..tell me I’m wrong. I mean, go back to all the other boards and read Archon’s bile. You joined him?

      And as far as the FB page goes, does anyone bother to look over older posts? I went back a couple of weeks, pre-cagematch. They are good people from around the world, all of whom share an undying love and loyalty to the WoT and it’s writer. They deserve to be recognized for their support, not shat on by someone that they used to look up to. Is that what it means to be a WoT ancient now? Do you believe you are more important than they? That your opine is more significant? If I was more of a fan, I could see myself joining them. Perhaps when the final book is published….

      ‘Wisdom I possess, but not the ears to listen, nor the eyes to see….’ unknown author

    • Terez

      If people look to me for guidance, then this is what they’re going to get. Not blind fangirlism. Not too long ago, WoT was almost a verboten topic at the Malazan forums, unless you were mocking the books. It’s not that there weren’t WoT fans there. They were just primarily Malazan fans, and didn’t care to step into the fray to defend WoT. Those threads were torture for me as a Malazan noob, but I stood my ground and I argued for the virtues of WoT, and by the time Brandon came around, Malazan was a much nicer place for WoT fans. I would have never gained that respect in discussion if I hadn’t been the way I am – strong-willed, a fierce debater, and able to acknowledge valid criticism of WoT…impartial, and more prone to logical arguments than fangirl screaming….but most importantly, I am true to myself, and honest. Some would say honest to a fault, but that’s pretty subjective. 😉 But I guess other things are more important, like supporting Perrin in the cage match.

      As for supporting Brandon…I see a post on the first page bitching about how he’s going to be wasting time re-reading Leigh Butler’s re-reads instead of spending every waking hour working on AMOL. Too bad they didn’t get that it was an April Fool’s joke, but that’s beside the point, isn’t it? We get that you love the series. But you called attention to yourselves with the hateful comments there today, and there was no reason for them.

      Also, quit with the straw men. I never said my opinion was more important than anyone else’s. I just think it’s a bit ridiculous to say I’m not a ‘real’ WoT fan.

    • Probably Not Batman

      Thanks for lumping all the Quick Ben and Malazan fans in with the trolls and asshats, by the way. Wheel of Time is a more popular series than Malazan (and before we get into popularity means quality, I’ll just point at Twilight) and therefore an easier target to aim at in regards to insulting and trolling the fanbase. I enjoy the Wheel of Time series, but I like the Malazan series a good deal more. I’ll tell you one thing, though, I’ve been voting this whole time on who would win, not who I like more. I voted Perrin in the Martin match, I voted Vin in the Jon Snow match, I voted Quick here. If it’d been Ganoes Paran versus Rand, then I would have probably voted Rand no matter how much I like the character of Paran, because that’s who I believe would win.

      What you’ve just told Terez is that because she likes a book series and is vocal about it, she can’t choose who to vote for despite not wanting to vote for the series. What the hell, dude. And I don’t even want to go into your last paragraph, I mean, damn.

    • Robyn

      @ impartial

      Feel free to correct me in this, but I thought we lived in a world where freewill still existed. But ofcourse I could be mistaken.
      And, honestly, if WOT fans are going to be brainless (not that they are!) and be led astray so easily, then they don’t even deserve acces to the internet.
      Now I haven’t read any posts on other websites (apart from the ones on MalazanEmpire, where Terez seems like a really nice person btw), so I don’t know any specifics, but it sounds like Terez was just opening people’s eyes to the fact that there are other lovable characters out there who aren’t nessecarily from WOT, which I’m sure you can understand.
      I think we can all agree that Terez never FORCED anybody to vote for Quick Ben.
      Like I said before, as far as I know people are still allowed to have opinions that don’t match yours, and they’re allowed to like more than one series, no?
      Probably best for all of us to take a deep breath and take a step back…
      Anyway just thought I’d share my opinion on all the Terez-hate.


    • topointout

      Terez, technically what was posted is not a ‘straw man’ argument. They were asking a question, not stating a fallacy nor misrepresenting a made statement.

      ‘Did you know my Aunt Sally dated a straw man once? They couldn’t believe it either!’
      bad professor joke

    • Fayth

      I’m actually very confused as to how people can be angry over a WoT fan voting for Quick Ben. This is a cage match no? The writeup certainly makes it evident that people should be voting for who would win in a fight. A vast amount of people aren’t doing that, but I don’t see why anyone should be getting angry at those who want to participate in this the way it was intended by the creators of the poll. Also, I find it very strange that people here are thinking that our opinions on who to vote for shouldn’t be shared. I mean, this entire comment section is for sharing our opinions, and that’s what the book specific forums are for too. If someone wants to make their opinion on this cage match known, I really don’t see the issue with it.

    • Terez

      @topointout If you don’t think his questions were an attempt to imply meaning in my words (which I would of course disagree with), then at the very least they were still tacky questions. He had no reason to even ask them other than to try to frame me as an unreasonable person.

    • freewill

      @ Robyn

      If you think any Leader/representative/elected official even, has free will, then I want to know where you live so I can avoid going there as that place certainly does not work towards bettering any group for which or to which it belongs and works.

      groundlings, brick layers, laymen, we have free will but it is constrained within a system of control. Leaders are bound by the control that those they lead lend to them. Its a cyclical and sometimes parasitic relationship that is codependent and often flawed. The Leader moves and the people follow. The people push, and the Leader moves. and so on, and so forth.

      and the fact that you pushing for QB to win does not lend any credence to your argument against impartial as you are defending a side. Although it seems that Impartial is a fan of WoT, he or she does not explicitly conform to either QB or Perrin/WoT’s side. I would like to know who they did vote for…..

      I also support the call to end the hate!

    • Archon

      @ Wheel of Time Fan

      LOL… THERE’S some Iraqi information minister propaganda for you! Rally the troops behind feigned indignation and convince them through spirited pedestal talk to continue to vote blindly for popularity because it suits your desired cause, while at the same time assuring them that it’s actually a positivething to justt follow the crowd and not think for yourself about what you’re actually doing… Hitler was really good at that too…

    • archonneedsawetnurse

      @ Archon

      wow, did you miss the point. You are a true douchbag. I cannot believe you called WoT fans hitler….really? Are you f’in kidding? How in the world have you been allowed to continue your ranting is beyond me.

      Where is there feigned indignation? They seem quite indignant, for real. No where does it talk about voting blindly but to vote for who you believe to be the best choice. Who are you to tell them there is choice is incorrect, regardless of their reasoning?! I’m a fan, I don’t just follow the crowd. I follow what I like. That is why I am here. I like Perrin, the WoT, and Robert ‘Frakkin’ Jordan!!!!!!!! Put that in you high and mighty pipe and smoke it.

      Go Perrin! For Goldeneyes!

    • Scott

      Here’s another gem from that facebook fan page to anyone who still wants to claim that they are all just swell folks:

      “take being beaten by WoT fans like the spice smokin’ sand monkeys you are.

      comment just found, written to the dune fanboys @ suvudu”

      This comment has 6 likes, 6 people (including the poster) laughing at it. ZERO complaints about this. Really? Using ethnic slurs to describe Dune fans? What is wrong with these people? Do they forget that the Aiel from WoT are influenced by the Fremen? Somehow I don’t imagine them calling Rand a ‘sand monkey’. This level of hate is disgusting, I feel dirty after visiting this site, it disgusts me as a fan of the series that this is the sort of hateful behavior that is tolerated by other fans….

    • Archon

      Oh, no… an internet dork called me a douchebag… whatever shall I do? First off, read it again moron… I wasn’t calling WoT fans Hitler… nice try at spin though… well, not really, it was a pretty lame attempt at spin actually, since it’s nowhere close to reality… I was comparing the tactics being used by that ONE person to the propaganda tactics that people like Hitler used, and whether you like it or not, it was a very apt comparison… And he was CLEARLY supporting the course of action to simply blindly vote for who you like as opposed to actually looking into the contest and following the designed concepts that the contest was laid out for… And even then, I wouldn’t have said anything, except that he literally called me out in his post, so of course I’m going to respond… you probably missed that point though, given your clearly horrible reading comprehension skills…

    • Griff Edur

      Why has some of the posts turned into bitter rants?……. This is a fiction cage match about fiction characters, which one and all has been put there to enlighten and entertain.
      So why all the animosity? Jest and micky- take on whose side your on all day long, but its beyond me how anyone is actually getting spiteful.

      The angry people need to take a step back and inject crack into their eyeballs, works a treat.

    • Justin

      to all my WOT brothers and sisters, its time to concede defeat, Quick ben is a worthy foe. however too much vitriol has been regurgitated and for little reason.

      personally i was going to vote QB but the comments of a intellectual cripple (we all know who it is), made me vote for perrin.

      we put up a good fight but we cant always win. Smile get out Eye of the world and enjoy

      congrats to all 😀

    • Probably Not Batman

      Archon. Shut up.

    • I am actually REALLY beside myself ASTONISHED that there appear to be so many WOT fans decrying Terez’s right to be BOTH a WOT fan/leader AND like another series…and want people to vote for the better competitor. I truly and stunned by that. Last i checked we had free will…also last I checked most people who are into fantasy….READ MORE THAN ONE SERIES! Gods. LOL

      to the person who brought up politics and leaders ect in comparison. Where are you tonight and WHAT ARE YOU SMOKIN’? Cause it must be some good stuff….that you even think such a comparison is RELEVANT is probably the most amusing thing I’ve heard all day. THIS IS A FICTIONAL CAGE MATCH BETWEEN FICTIONAL CHARACTERS! None of this reflects on real life. Just wow. Somewhere there is a life…you must go catch it.


      Earlier I mentioned sour grapes. Some certain WOT fans get vicious when their boy Perrin is losing. Yikes. LOL

      Anyways….to the less partial/die hard folks out there….just so you know…we Malazan fans would never shun anyone for liking another series or even voting for another competitor when the real odds of that match are clear. Cause that’s fanboy lunacy.

      I say like what you want…and vote for who would win.

      WOT fans…..forget the dream world….the cage match isn’t anywhere near TAR. Perrin is toast. Plain and simple. It’s not even a contest.

      Now watch as your cage match world crumbles and Quick Ben rules over all!

      QB FTW!

    • Jlingo

      So glad to see logic and reason prevailing in this fight so far. Perrin would not have much of a chance and glad to see even some logical WoT fans coming over to the side of Quick Ben. All are welcome, all are welcome. Come into the light…..

    • ProbablyNotRobin

      Yeah Archon. shut your yap. you make Malazan fans look bad.

    • Jabber


      All I have to say is……………….you are my new Internet hero. A WoT leader that has reason and logic. Awesome job brother!

    • Scott


      Pssst….Awesome job SISTER.


    • jade

      I just thought the cage match was to introduce readers to new authors. I had only heard of the Malazan series through the WOT re-read at (some people do read both series) I am investigating the chances of getting some of the Malazan books to read in part because of the information re:QB. May investigate some of the other authors as well.

    • Scott

      Archon, please stop continuing on in this manner, how do you see yourself being anymore helpful to the quality of these cagematches then the likes of Shadow’sBane with all the anger you throw around?


      I agree wholeheartedly, It’s nice to see another WoT fan who is trying to think of the match in a rational manner instead of just voting for the WoT character by default.

    • Justin

      @ProbablyNotRobin i dont think he is a Malazan fan hes just anti-WOT so dont worry too much, sometimes us WOT fans need a reality check also 😛

    • Shancaldazar

      I love how it is only less than a dozen WoT fans that are truly mad at Terez, and it ended up turning into a big deal. Silent Majority here? I think so. I feel that WoT Fans are getting a bad name here, which i would like to state again-it’s not even a dozen fans who are being rude. It’s really not as big of a deal as everyone seems to have made it. I’m sure not all 120 some fans of that FB page think Terez is a bad person. I mean JB is fan of that page and he is the orignal creator of the largest WoT fan page on facebook. I’ve talked to him (in both real life and online) and that man is one of the nicest in the world. In fact there have been several Malazan fans who have said rude things, but i know that not all Malazan fans are bad. No group is completely perfect, and a few bad people give an entire group a bad name

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Wow…….I’m sure when Suvudu came up with the idea of these Cage Matches they imagined a lot of debate regarding the particulars of specific authors and the merits of one character compared to another. I think the people at Suvudu have a greater faith in fantasy readers then they should given the sheer amount of petty spite and personal attacks that run rampant in the comments so far.

      Shame on you. Shame on you!

    • Archon

      Hmm… Dude calls me out out of nowhere (never talked to him before), and I respond, and you guys call me out for it… That’s balanced… no, wait a minute… no it’s not… so here’s my response…


      If you don’t like it… go to a different forum… Luckily the same rules that allow you to vote however you desire also allow you to speak your mind in however you desire… interesting how many of you support one concept but not the other…

    • Sorkatani Loki


      You’re right, silly of us to expect you to take the higher, more dignified road. But if you do intend to continue in this fashion at least try to show a little bit of dignity in your discourse.

    • Matador

      Reasonable fan of both series, but really… QB has had three decent fights on the way through (Pug is perhaps the only fantasy character I can think of that approaches QB’s power). whereas Perrin has basically had a free pass through to the semis. Tasslehoff? REALLY?!
      Gotta say though that I’m voting QB simply to spite the WoT groupies commenting on the page. Besides, as much as I love Perrin as a character. he would have less than no chance against QB in a fight. Perrin is honourable, and QB… well, QB doesn’t do fair fights :p

    • Terez

      @Shancaldazar – They only added Jim to the page yesterday, because he said that I shouldn’t support QB on the main page under the admin account. So now he’s their new hero. And trust me, it was more than a dozen of them being nasty, and there wasn’t a single person who stepped up to say it was wrong until we called them on it. But obviously, it’s a pretty localized problem. I mentioned I was voting for QB at Theoryland and Dragonmount and didn’t get anything close to that reaction.

    • Luci

      I’m a big fan of the Malazan series.
      I wasn’t a huge fan of the WoT books. Which is unfortunate, because I think the author was a great… creator. His ideas and world were good (possibly great, I didn’t get far enough into it to decide), but I didn’t much like his writing, and it ruined the series for me. If you liked his writing and enjoyed the series, I’m glad for you (I do actually mean that), I may give it another shot, now that a different writer is handling his ideas, we shall see.
      And just so you know, there are a few popular authors who I feel should have gotten someone else to write their books (or co-written them with someone) and not necessarily because they’re bad writers, but that they were much better creators than they were writers, their writing bottlenecked/inhibited their great ideas.
      I’m not putting RJ down by the way, I believe you can like someone for what they’re good at and admit that they may not be the best at something else. You can like an actor’s job in movies even if they always play the same sort of part. Maybe they’re not muich good at acting other roles, but that doesn’t mean they’re not damn good at that one. You can admire someone’s ability to swing the views of a croud while disagreeing with their message.
      You can love a series while admitting it’s not perfect.
      You can enjoy characters in a book without thinking they’d win in a fight. (heck in most books the characters you like would seriously get smooshed by the characters you don’t like, at least to begin with)

      You can be a fan of a series and still admit when you’re favourite character would lose.
      I haven’t read Mistborn, but it’s been on my list for a while. I have read and really enoyed SoIaF, and John is one of the characters I like more. From what I know of Vin though… by god would he lose. And as SoIaF stands at the moment, I can’t see any of those characters coming top in something like this. They’re good to read, but in a fight against the likes of Pug, Vin, Paul or Lestat…*smoosh*

      Consequently, nothing annoys me more than angry, obstinate following against all rhyme and reason. Blind, deaf, vehement zealotry, nothing is worse.

      I’m lucky, first time I’ve heard of these matches it has a character from a series I love who I think could definitely stand to win it. In matches I think either could very conceivably win, matches I wouldn’t bet on were they to happen (QB vs Pug for example) I voted for who I wanted to win. Otherwise it’s been who I thought would win.

      Those who say to Terez she should be a devout WoT fan “and champion the side she’s representing” purely because she’s recognised among that community, to you I say poppycock! Did you ever think that perhaps the reason she’s been recognised by the old hands in that community and why she’s considered a “leader” in it is because she doesn’t do this? Because the other Ancients believe they can have a logical and interesting discussion with her?
      Because she can, in the time I’ve been a member of it, noticeably improve another forum’s views on the series and it’s fans? She only managed that because she doesn’t do what you’re asking. And amusingly enough, she’s recognised as an old hand their by many of it’s members these days 🙂

      I also think that it’s unfortunate that there has been people on both sides of this argument making their side look bad. There are nice and reasonable fans of both series and I feel bad for some of the company they find themselves amidst.

    • Samantha

      @Scott – “we Malazan fans would never shun anyone for liking another series or even voting for another competitor when the real odds of that match are clear.”

      Nonsense. Some of you would. Malazan fans aren’t “better” than WOT fans. There are just as many people who would argue for their favorite character regardless of what the “actual” outcome would be likely to be.

      It’s astonishing how personal genre fans take these online polls. For example, people are currently flipping out over on io9 because Serenity is beating ‘Blade Runner’ in a ‘best genre movie’ poll. I kinda just want to start kicking people in the knees. *shakes head*

    • Archon

      @ Sorkatani Loki

      I give what I get… I’ve had plenty of perfectly civil discourse with people on this forum who have delivered the same… but if your first comment to or about me is to start taking shots at me, You’re going to get something similar back… Golden Rule and all that…

    • Valan

      @ Terez Its sad that you’re getting hate for liking another series and taking this match seriously. I’ve gotten plenty of awesome discussion and reading from your arguments, so keep it up.

      @ Luci Nice post, yo 🙂 Brandon Sanderson has been handling the series wonderfully since RJ’s passing. I highly recommend continuing with it, as it keeps the soul of the series intact as well as increasing the plot speed considerably. I love both his co-written WoT books,as well as everything else… except Elantris which was good but certainly not on the level of awesome as his other works (sorry Brandon.)

      Quick Ben FTW

      Apologies, but I’ve had more than a couple of drinks, so hopefully all that makes a lick of sense. LOL 🙂

    • Adjutant Stormy

      Don’t worry Terez – I’ve got your back. WoT fans shouldn’t necessarily concede the point that QB would roflstomp all over Perrin, however; that’s no reason to be hating.

      I’ve essentially finished both series (waiting on my copy of The Crippled God), and essentially just have to make the call, irrespective of my fandom-association.

      And I have to say, that at least on the Malazan Forum, there is only one fanbase that we consistently hate on. And that is Terry Goodkind. But that’s because it’s hilarious. I’m not going to defend a minority of fans that don’t even participate in the community, but the aligned of us understand that people are within their rights liking anyone they please.

    • siuan

      All of you just quit it!!! It is only a game, and we will not die horrid screaming deaths if our favourite character and/ or the one we think should win by logic loses! Come on!

      @ Terez: I didn’t realise that other people have been intimidated by Theoryland. I certainly feel better about going there since your post about feeling the noob 🙂 Ha. That sounds a bit… wrong

      Truly, the fb wot fan pages are usually really good places to go – not as in depth as Theoryland etc., but with more scope to be silly and have a laugh with each other. I don’t know who was fighting on there, or what they said, but all this anger is certainly not indicative of what usually happens there.

    • Terez

      @siuan – Thanks! I was just about to post because I read the recent comments on the page and I decided (again) that I have no enmity for anyone there. Except for Bilal. But only because of the name parallel with the LAMEST of all the Forsaken. I mean…only Aginor and Balthamel died quicker, and they came back!

      I definitely never intended to disparage small Facebook groups in general. I was a member of the MySpace WoT group for a long time, and though it was the biggest (about 4000 members), it wasn’t incredibly active. I started posting there when I was still not recognized as a serious WoT poster at Theoryland, and MySpace gave me a place to shine. There were so many misconceptions about the plot details and such, so many questions, that I probably posted more there than I did at Theoryland. It was good fun. The best part was seeing them become ‘educated’ on WoT over time, not because they really had to put much effort into it, but because I was there to discuss with them and point things out that they missed. There was another guy who was there a lot longer than me who was also good, and really both of us together had that effect, but I don’t think he got into it quite as much as I did! (He’s my friend on Facebook still. I think I like him more than he likes me.) I still have several friends on Facebook from that group, actually, and many of them are on my chat list. Most of us abandoned MySpace a long time ago.

      Most of the fan forums have their own spheres of silliness. At Theoryland, most of the Heroes of the Horn hang out in Non-WoT discussion and hardly ever post on the WoT boards at all (though, as we showed at JCon last year when we dominated team trivia, most of them do READ the WoT boards when they’re bored at work – they just don’t post). But even on the off-topic forums at an established community, you have the noob problem, and you still have to distinguish yourself in some way (or jump into chat) to get recognized. At Theoryland the serious real world discussions are lumped in with the silly stuff, but on some forums they’re separate. For us it just makes sense to lump them together because we’re a small community – much smaller than DM or

      When I was a noob at Theoryland, the Big Bad was a guy who went by the name of Callandor. He was way scarier than me. In fact, he was so scary that I hardly posted at all in my first several months at Theoryland – I remember taking a few months off because I dreaded reading his responses to my posts! His WoT recall was much better then than mine is now, too…which is saying something. When I talk to him about WoT now, it’s funny…he got a girlfriend a few years ago, and we haven’t seen him much since. :p So, since he’s no longer engaged with WoT on a daily basis, he forgets the simplest things sometimes. His theories are still notorious at Theoryland – not just the published ones, but the little ones he argued on the forums – but he doesn’t even remember what he used to argue half the time. Funny how things can be turned around like that.

    • Shadow’sBane

      we All WoT Fans Read other Books…and No one ever blames any one for voting for other characters….Hell I would have vote for jon Snow if it was Perrin Vs jon.

      No one Blames u for Voting for QB or even rallying Fans For QB, its ur personal matter.
      But Rallying WoT Fans to Vote For QB on an WoT Fan Page is somewhat like Back stabbing… wonder u Got heated Comments…..and Terez U can’t Bloody blame them for saying that……just becoz U don’t like Perrin that doesn’t give u the rights to go against him…I Know Bloody Well that u wouldn’t have done the same if it was Matt Vs QB.

      Stop Playing an Hypocrytic Woolheaded Jerk….thecomment u put up…..that is not written by sumone Facebooks Group he just posted it……and in the Match Against Paul Artedies things were very heated up in that match.
      And are getting Heated up in this match again.
      What u are doing here is much more Filled with Hate than that single Bloody comment…i.e…u r trying to show that We WoT Fans are Hateful ppl?…..U all keep Bloody pushing us and when we rebuke u call us as Hateful.

    • Terez

      It’s perfectly within my rights to rally support for QB if I like. None of my friends in the WoT fandom think you guys were justified at all in your reaction, and that’s including Tamyrlin (who brought the hateful comments to my attention in the first place – he would never have done that if he didn’t want me to do something about it) and Linda Taglieri of 13th Depository (who commented about it on Twitter). Most of the members of the group have either backed off or directly apologized; all you are doing is continuing to make them look bad. I bet that many of them don’t appreciate it, seeing as we’re all trying to get past this, and you’re still beating the dead horse.

      Don’t mind Scott. He is a little more exuberant than the rest of us. 😉 I could do without the jeering but he seems to think it’s normal sportsmanship. I’ve already voiced my opinion on that once in these comments and I see no reason to do it again.

      Also, what makes you think I would support Mat over QB? I wouldn’t. I don’t think his medallion is likely to protect against any other type of magic – there’s even a question as to whether it would work against the True Power.

    • moRR

      Ok, I just can’t be quiet.
      Terez, i’m surprised you, as a “real wot fan and founder of the facebook wot page” (as u claim), don’t get it, that -> you are NOT supposed to be an “individual”. At least not in such a way that everyone can connect you to the FB fan group. Seeing as you post and manage everything on there, you are an ENTITY. You are that page!
      Whatever YOU personally think, you should hold that SEPERATE from “the job of managing the fan page”. Which it is, whatever you claim. If you want to write something against Wot on there (which “vote for qb” IS btw), you should do it as Terez or whatever, NOT as an entity that folks expect 100% pro WoT content and support.
      Since you claim you were on a whole bunch of WoT related sites in your time, I don’t believe you ever saw dragonmount or some such posting anything along the lines of “fans think about it, is wot really that good? Lets look at the flaws shall we? How about…”. .. NONE of that!

      I could go on and on, but since I hate explaining things certain people should already know (!), I hope you get it now, at least.

      You disappointed many of us with being oblivious to the fact that fanpage is not an individual, and it is most certainly not a tool (even for the founder) to pass personal beliefs.
      I think you messed it up this time. I’ll leave the fb fanpage, and i hope many others will too. Yeah, some nugget will go on about being irrational about a game, but it has nothing to do with suvudu anymore. It’s the principle.

      The fan page = entity, NOT an individual.




    • Terez

      Sorry man, but my leadership in the WoT is a *result* of my individuality, and I’m not giving it up for some random wankers on the internet who have no idea what being a ‘leader’ actually entails. Do you really think you can justify so much offense because the WoT Fan Page expressed a diverse opinion? Is it a book series, or is it a religion? Does anyone really believe that the fan page represents WoT itself? If so, that’s sad. Furthermore, there are actually several posts on the very first page of the Dragonmount General WoT discussion forum that are dedicated to being critical of WoT (no matter how misguided they might be). If you were involved in the fandom in any real way, you’d know that criticism of WoT within the fandom is quite common.

      Also, I’m sorry that you think that rallying support for QB is anti-WoT. I really wish your involvement with the fandom was less shallow than that.

    • What is this

      Hey, uh, moRR? Do you remember the movie Donnie Darko? It’s not one of my favourites but it had a couple of entertaining lines of dialogue here and there, and, well, there’s this one character who’s really into her daughter’s dance group. REALLY into. Taking it seriously to the point of absurdity, I mean, “Sometimes, I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion!” is an actual line. I guess the point I’m making is, that’s you. That’s you and everyone you’re arguing for.

    • Just an FYI. The Scott with the non-lit up name on these comments…is not me. mine is always lit up. That other dude ain’t me.

      There are two Scott’s on here.

    • ObscureTairyFan

      You WoT’ers are ridiculous. I don’t even know who this Quick Ben is, but I bet he could beat the bestiality-practicing Perrin arm wrestling, hang gliding, or at MAFIA any day of the week with a 4 day drunk on. I own all these WoT books because once they’re marked down to the bargain bin, they’re actually cheaper than toilet paper, last twice as long, and are already accustomed to being covered with crap. These books are an anguished cry against the murder of innocent trees that would be better used as paper grocey bags & tampons.
      Try some Tairy Goodking if you want to see some real creative & original fantasy that is worth losing touch with reality and pretending your some kind of wizard instead of getting a job and exercising. Half the stuff in WoT is loosely based on Terry’s masterwork, the other half is just ripped off with the letters rearranged. Find some good western romance novels that you can understand, it’ll make your headaches go away.

    • Tiam

      Well these comments took a turn for the worst since yesterday.


      Just because you represent a book or series of books does mean blind faith in a frankly meaningless cage match. The level of hatred you give someone who spends time maintaining a FB page that you visit is astonishing.

      That you even claim to be speaking of anyone else with phrases like ‘you disappointed alot of us’ is ridiculous. As noted above fictional works should not rile you up so much that you spew out hatred.

      In any case the actual merits of having these cage matches, which is assume to interest people in other fantasy series, has now taken a back seat behind blind hatred such as yours which is a shame.

      As for whod win Ive never read WOT but judging from the bio at the top of the page Perrinseems like a fairly standard axeman with some speculative powers, based on the comments. In either case these are no match for QB.

    • Terez

      @ObscureTairyFan – I can’t help it. Despite being funny, that post still offends me.

      In case anyone is still wondering about the disappearing comments thing…if you use Firefox, go to Firefox>Preferences>Privacy. Under the History tab at the top choose ‘custom settings’ in the drop-down and block Suvudu’s cookies. You’ll have to type in your info every time you post, but that should be the only problem. And no, it won’t allow you to vote multiple times.

    • Terez

      More specifically, after going to ‘custom settings’, go down to the ‘exceptions’ button that’s next to cookies and type in And you shouldn’t have to actually type in your info for each post if you have a drop-down history for form fields.

    • moRR

      Heh, I don’t know if i really have to respond to you, seeing you missed (or ignored?) the point I was trying to make altogether.
      Your “leadership in WoT”? Wtf is that supposed to mean? I don’t even know how to repond to that. Your argument is just.. the worst 00

      (I’ll try to ignore most of ur “arguments” anyway because you missed the whole point of my argument with them, and we’ll be off topic soon enough judging by your reply )

      You just pointed it out urself lol… “Furthermore, there are actually several posts on the very first page of the Dragonmount General WoT discussion FORUM”. Well, is there an admin named “” discussing flaws of wot (which would look like it’s the “opinion of the site”?)? Thats the same as you passing YOUR opinion as a “wot fan page” -> an entity. Post as “Terez” or whatever you want. I’d see no problem then.

      And you think I see no flaws in Wot? At all? lol… I do, but again, this is not the issue here.
      Anyway, as far as suvudu goes I agree with folks who claim it’s a popularity contest. It is. 99% of voters will vote for their SERIES not their character. I confess, I’d vote for Valan Luca whoever he was against… Annnd we’re offtopic.

      Back to the point I fear u STILL havent gotten. Why don’t u understand I dont really have anything against different opinions or discussing the flaws etc?
      My ONLY problem is YOU being stupid in not understanding a simple fact -> same as dragonmount or other such pages, your FB page is an ENTITY. Pass your arguments as “Terez”, not as “the page”. Last time i checked it’s named simply “Wheel of Time”, so you ARE representing WoT in some fashion whether you want it or not.
      If you still don’t get it, you are too thick to argue with anyway.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Don’t you just love the way pretend death matches bring people together!

      I’m a Malazan fan – I love the series…right up to Reaper’s Gale, I just can’t get through that one – I keep referring to it as ‘The Robert Jordan inspired one’ – which gives you and idea of what I think of RJ’s writing – it’s bloody long-winded! If you condensed the series you’d end up with 5 or 6 books that would more then likely be very enjoyable to read but as it is they bore me to death. Having said that, Perrin was always my favourite character in the WoT world – I liked Matt for a while then he quickly became all emo and ‘I don’t wanna be special waah waah waah.’ I never liked the whole Faile relationship though – that was just….I don’t know but i’m sure Freud would have a field day with it. I think Perrin’s major let down is that he doesn’t want to fight/hurt people. When you stand that against someone who will go to any measures, honourable or not, to survive it gives Perrin a great disadvantage. Plus, yellow-eyes and the ability to summon wolves doesn’t really stack well against massive magical power and cunning which Delat has in spades.

      Though, I gotta say, I don’t like that the wolves attack Perrin because of an illusion – they know him, regardless of form, due to smell etc. They really should have explained how Meanas doesn’t simply change how someone looks but changes the individually affected people, or wolves, into believeing what they see and tricking their minds into interpruting things, like smell, in different ways to normal. It’s far more invovled then a simple illusion.

      So, yeah, QB FTW!

    • moRR

      Ugh… Tiam, im sorry, but you TOO missed my point. I agree with what you’ve written, but it doesnt really apply to me.

      To everyone: I’m not arguing about whether Perrin should win or not ffs… That’s NOT AT ALL what I’m trying to get across here.

    • moRR:

      Dude. You are that Donnie Darko character. I agree. How’s Sparkle Motion? Using words like separate and entity. How very sad is your actual life to have such a blinded opinion about such a silly cage match? Terez is completely entitled to not only vote on the merits of the characters skills (and not blind fandom) but also to check if others want to vote that way too. That’s called free will. I don’t care if she created the WOT. Part of me actually thinks if Jordan were here he’d vote with his head and understand that Perrin stands no chance in this situation. To me, from the WOT the only character’s who would stand a chance against QB would be Egwene and probably Post-TGS Rand.

      that you can’t seem to separate reality from fantasy, WOT from religion, book and state….I sadly think that you may have other issues causing such a braincloud. Sorry dude. I’m sure there is help out there though.

    • Terez

      I admit that the Dragonmount crew are more toe-the-line types than most (though even they have been known to tweet things that are critical of WoT). But what about Leigh Butler? She criticizes WoT on a regular basis on her blog. She represents not only WoT but also with her re-read – her blog is on the official page. Sure, it’s common for posters there to object to her criticism. Does that mean she should shut up about her opinion? Hell no, it doesn’t.

      As for posting ‘as the fan page’…I signed my comments having to do with QB. There was no other way to show individuality; we already pointed out that it’s impossible to post under your own account so long as you are an admin of the page. You’re quibbling on a technicality that assumes that the average WoT fan is too dumb to understand that there is a real person behind the fan page (even with a signature!) or perhaps several real persons with diverse opinions. You’re also quibbling on the assumption that the average WoT fan is blindly dedicated enough to be offended or even bothered by such diverse opinions. I can guarantee you that most of the fandom doesn’t appreciate either assumption.

      As several people have pointed out already, this sort of hateful, over-the-top fanaticism is exactly the reason why Brandon has no desire to see Vin vs Perrin in the finals. Remember, there is absolutely nothing hateful about publicly supporting QB, even on a fan page, any more than it would be hateful for Brandon to support Vin in the finals against Perrin. It should be EXPECTED for him to support her, aside from her simply being the logical choice. But the small, crazy percentage of the fandom that would hold it against him probably makes him reluctant to be put in that position, and that’s just sad.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      MoRR –

      I’m not trying to attack you or anything but you said “I’m not arguing about whether Perrin should win or not” – I thought that point of this particular forum was to debate who would win.

      Perhaps you should find another way to continue your particular issue as it isn’t appropriate to do it here.

    • moRR

      Lol, this is getting funnier by the minute.. Wtf is wrong with you? Am I THAT unclear and you REALLY don’t get what im trying to say, or is the lot of you simply trolling me? 😀

      From the start, I have NOTHING against mr.slow or perrin losing. Well it would be satisfactory to see everyone moan if perrin won but we got that kind of candy last year…

      My point is simply: Wheel Of Time (fan page) != “Terez’s WoT lounge”
      So, as you dont see posting stuff on forums as “”, Terez should have posted “some stuff” as “Terez”.
      Again, I don’t care what he or anyone says, it just seems wrong using an entity (sorry i don’t know how else to call a web site or an organization etc. as simply an entity) for personal views.

      That is all. *bows*

    • @moRR

      Issues. Sparkle Motion.

      That is all. *bows*

    • Terez

      Again. Actually read my posts. *bows*

    • moRR

      Dude. Srsly. Leigh posts as Leigh, not as Tor. EVEN if she REPRESENTS Tor. You should have done the same. If u can’t , seeing as you want to be all “serious, smart and reasonable” you should have STFU (and found another way to express your opinion). Same as (as u say) Brandon did. He did the smart thing.

      Or lets try this another way. It’s the same with some artists or celebrities or for example footballers. They have to say publicly “in the name of the club” whatever is their JOB to say. Probably good things and according to the guielines, yes? If they’d express something THEY think in the name of the club… Now that would be a riot.
      Smart as you want to be you should have thought about it and found another way to say what you wanted. You probably have teitter or some such where you can post as YOU without any problem.

      Yes it’s technicalities, but important ones that you should follow, if you are that invested in the community.

    • Terez

      Again, read my posts. You cherry-pick the points address every time you post something. Everyone else can see it.

    • Probably Not Batman












      …that look a lot of editing after the stream of thought I wrote out at first.

    • moRR

      I did read, and some posts are not in the right order, since I have the “refreshing problem” also, not seeing new posts.

      I “cherry-pick” only the points about which I want to argue. For some reason you want to go off topic and try to make me argue about points YOU raised, leaving my original one to fall through. No thank you. Nice strategy, but for me it makes for beating a dead horse soon enough. Or you simply don’t get it. I really don’t know anymore.

      Looking at your last post (the one mentioning brandon) YOU are ignoring MY point and argue about other people and other problems. Seems pointless to me.

    • comment man 1

      Oh dear, I feel like I’ve walked into a room for marriage councelling between fighting couples…

      @Sorkatani Loki
      Mat goes Emo? compared to super obsessed depressed not eating thinking-of-nothing-but-Faile Perrin? He doesn’t get that depressed, just whinges and gets drunk like a real man 😉

      Well I voted Quick Ben over Perrin, Vin over Jon like logical people do. I would do that pretty much all the time (Even though I didn’t know about it at that time I rage that Saruon somehow lost last years villians cage match.. As for Cthulu, well from what I can tell it’s like a force of nature. And nobody wants nature in a cage match) except where Mat is involved. I would back him against QB or Rand.

      *Attempts to change tone and topic of conversation, knowing he’s already failed* I was too lazy too read the whole thing, but basically Terez is bad because she put a few words on the internet (not even in hard copy) that says a non magical character would lose to a powerful wizard, and because she is popular and people follow what she say she should have kept her opinion to herself? An opinoin that won’t hurt WoT sales in any way. Thats awesome guys. Real mature.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Comment man 1 – Yeah, I was hoping noone would mention the whole ‘Perrin is more emo then Matt’ thing – to be honest, they’re jus as bad as each other, to be very honest Perrin is worse…but…but he has the whole animal magnetism thing going and that wins hands down over some dude with a fancy medallion 😀

    • HeroOfTheLance

      So much WoT bashing of Terez when she should be commended. It is refreshing to see a serious WoT fan voice support for logic and free will instead of the typical rank and file fans.

      Look, I am the biggest Dragonlance fan in the world. I grew up with it, read all the books, played the characters in role-playing games for years and still have all my original Dragonlance material. I “personally” think it is the best fantasy serious written. However…….

      When Perrin fought Tas, I believe Perrin would have won and I would have posted on any Dragonlance sight on the web if I had the foresight and courage to do so like Terez did for WoT. Good job Terez and don’t let the haters get to you.

    • comment man 1

      @Sorkatani Loki

      Ah, but while Perrin has animal magnetism, Mat has human magnetism, as he has demonstrated by sleeping with a large enough number of women that when Tuon finds out she will have him bashed and left in an allyway XD.

      Mats like the James bond of WoT, he can avoid being seen, picks up women (admittedly that will stop now) has he has gadgets. Like fireworks, and a power stopping medallion, and a crossbow crank, and throwing knives, and… and luck better than any set of loaded dice *shifty look*. He really is like James Bond. Honest.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Comment Man 1 – Ah, but you see, I always preferred 006 😉

    • Natasa

      *brings out the GO-PERRIN banners*

    • comment man 1

      @Sorkatani Loki

      Then shouldn’t your favourite character Sammmael? 😉

    • comment man 1

      “@Sorkatani Loki

      Then shouldn’t your favourite character BE Sammmael? ”
      Grammar fail

    • Nancy

      Quick Ben – heck, he could take anyone in that series…Rand included.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Comment man 1 – ……who told you that? *looks around nervously* And no, I never ever EVER imagined him looking like Sean Bean either. Nope, not once.

      Why are you looking at me like that?

      -NB According to Word Press I have already posted this…though I don’t see it on the site so if I suddenly repeat myself I haven’t can some kind of head trauma and lost my short term memory….in case that was what anyone was thinking…

    • Sorkatani Loki

      …and by can I mean gotten…of course

    • Shiara

      I’d like to see Corabb Bhilan Thenu’alas versus Mat from WoT in one of these matches. That would be freaking hilarious.

    • ObscureTairyFan

      @ Probably not Batman – Your comments make me ILL! You are an evil chicken of the fowlest kind. Everybody know that there is no hobby as rewarding as spouting forum invective.
      Further, the Fansite creates the author, not the other way around. Who else will tickle the few brain cells that remain after viewing endless hours of TV?
      The teat being suckled here belongs to you, as you well know. Suckled and betrayed by a desire to distract the fine fans of quality fantasy from secretly voting against their weak favorite series. As least I’m hidden behind some pointy-eared mask

    • Sorkatani Loki

      @ Obscure TairyFan and Probably Not Batman

      I worry about you….both of you, that is.

    • ObscureRandFan

      @ObscureTairyFan – You smell like capitalism. Shall we expect rapings soon.

    • Bauchelain


      So true! We could ask suvudu to arrange it. And then we can fight to decide who is luckier: Beloved of the God of Luck or Chosen by Fate(or whatever)

    • Sorkatani Loki


      I imagine that would be a long, looooooong battle with no forseeable end!

    • RabidMatFanboy

      He does NOT have the Dark One’s own luck. That is preposterous.

    • Shiara


      It would only be good if someone with decent writing skills and a wicked sense of humour and timing wrote it up. And then no voting. Voting seems to turn everyone into five-year-olds throwing sheep poo at each other.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Sheep poo, hehe

    • ObscureTairyFan

      @ObscureRandFan – The rapings have been underway for some time, and are nearly complete. And you smell like a hippie!

      @Shiara – What kind of parents would let their 5-year old handle poo, much less participate in an internet forum?

    • moRR

      ObscureTairyFan says:
      April 2, 2011 at 10:19 am
      Further, the Fansite creates the author, not the other way around.

      FINALLY someone. Kudos.

    • ObscureRandFan

      @ObscureTairyFan Hippies are socialists, not far better than your ilk.

      @moRR I’m afraid I must humbly bow to your unsurpassably keen insight. If we were all as smart as you, we’d just ignore the fact that people are mocking us and pretend they really agree. Then we’d all be happier.

    • Shiara


      Well, I’m fairly sure Two Rivers was well-known for their sheep farming…

      *ducks to avoid said pellet projectiles*

    • Hey guys, I’m the Wheel of Time Admin at Dragonmount, and I was asked to throw my lot in even though this is passed. Know that I am currently very drunk, and wrote that in this form.

      Without furthur adue, my take on a fight between Perrin and Quick Ben…


      Quick Ben eyed the man warily. Golden eyes, by Hoods breath, and the Wolves that went with them. What that meant, he did not know–had the Twin Thrones cast their throw, or was this something else? D’ivers that held a man as their centre? Whatever it was it was something he did not like. A new player with a new play, and Quick Ben without a shaved knuckle.

      Something subtle was needed. Meneas. The warren of thought unveiled… and recoiled. Quick Ben sensed nothing from this man, but his thoughts were inviolate, a strength of self born from… something… not a warren, not a hold, but something.

      Without warning an arrow punched Quick Ben in the shoulder, spinning him. He fell, looking in the direction the arrow had come from even as black spots swarmed his eyes–if he fainted now he’d be as good as at Hood’s door, and that would be… unfortunate. Not to mention unpleasant. An army was swarming the hill–the arrow had come from three hundred feet. An impossibility apparently made possible.

      This figure, this man who looked a blacksmith, had an army at his back. And where were the Bridgeburners… the Bonehunters. Quick Ben danced alone even when he ran with others, but where we the others when he needed to… well… run?

      Lightning struck in a hailstorm, and he was forced to unveil six of his warrens to survive. He sensed no warrens from the enemy, and this was no cedence, no spirit-work. The earth shuddered and longed to explode under foot–all in answer to this man. This blacksmith with his hammer.

      Well time to stop playing his game. Quick Ben opened a Warren–death. Hood’s realm was the nearest in this storm. The easiest. Besides, Hood owed him certain favours. Sliding through the warren, he jumped back out again, next to the Blacksmith. The man spun preternaturally fast, as if he’d heard the impossibly soft susurration of Quick Ben leaving Hood’s warren. A hammer that shone like a warren itself spun at Quick Ben’s head–and Hood caught it, in answer to the many debts he owed.

      Quick Ben did not hesitate–he unveiled seven warrens and blasted the blacksmith from existence.

      Unseen, in the corner, Shadowthrone, Lord of High House Shadow, who was also Hood, Lord of the Grave in other times, and other places, laughed.

      \I have won again, Lews Therin\.

    • Luci

      Really, sheep poo?

      Cow would be better, so much sloppier…

    • trench

      Poor Terez, I really feel for you. You dont deserve the flak your getting.

      The WOT fandom is a really cool group of people, rabid fans we all may be, but there is also a lot of support, and a whole lotta love. Too much in fact. Sometimes that much love turns on itself, and its wrong when that happens. Keep your head up and all that, you got my support, for as little as that means.

      There are no bad guys in this, just too much passion, and too much defensiveness. You better then I, know how wonderful our community is. Lets all forget the anger and remeber our love of the best fntasy series ever written.

    • Terez

      Luckers, I think I love you.

    • Terez

      @trench, Jabber, and all the other folks who have shown me support – thanks guys! And remember folks…passion is good….contemplating ways to kill real people is not good, no matter how not-serious you are. There is no excuse for it.

    • Elend


      I saw that on Dragonmount but I figure I’ll just comment here. That’s an awesome write-up Luckers.

      And lay off Terez. Not all leaders need do as the community wishes. If that were so we’d not need leaders at all.

    • Shiara

      Great write-up Luckers, kinda puts it all into perspective 🙂

      I’d like to say something encouraging to trench and the others who have posted similar comments, but it’s 2:15am and my brain has left my skull in protest, citing intolerable cruelty. That being said: *warm drowsy-hugs all round*

    • Scott


      You are the worst kind of WoT fan that drag the rest of the name of the rest of the fandom through the mud. I remember that you supported cheating in the first cage match as well. The FB page has you supporting cheating against Paul once again. What a surprise.

      Attempting to defend that racist comment is ridiculous. yes, I know it is a repost, but someone from that community of 100+ fans seems to have felt it was funny enough to repost on the fan page, you and others seem to have found this entertaining. Would you ‘lol’ if the match was against Ged and someone reposted a message calling all Earthsea fans ‘eunuch n******’?

      Honestly, if someone on the group had spoken out about this, or apologized for this, I wouldn’t have as much of a problem with this. But the fact that people like terez are torn apart for voting for someone who is not Perrin, while this sort of dross is fair game is ridiculous and incites people like Archon to do their own annoying things.

      Honestly, I find these cagemetches to be real fun, it is entertaining to read the writeups from different fandoms that propose methods by which so-and-so can win against such-and-such. We get some real fun and imaginative discussions on here occasionally, and it’s a shame that people like you have to go and ruin the fun for everyone else.

    • Scott


      You are the worst kind of WoT fan that drag the rest of the name of the rest of the fandom through the mud. I remember that you supported cheating in the first cage match as well. The FB page has you supporting cheating against Paul once again. What a surprise.

      Attempting to defend that racist comment is ridiculous. yes, I know it is a repost, but someone from that community of 100+ fans seems to have felt it was funny enough to repost on the fan page, you and others seem to have found this entertaining. Would you ‘lol’ if the match was against Ged and someone reposted a message calling all Earthsea fans ‘eunuch n******’?

      Honestly, if someone on the group had spoken out about this, or apologized for this, I wouldn’t have as much of a problem with this. But the fact that people like terez are torn apart for voting for someone who is not Perrin, while this sort of dross is fair game is ridiculous and incites people like Archon to do their own annoying things.

      Honestly, I find these cagemetches to be real fun, it is entertaining to read the writeups from different fandoms that propose methods by which so-and-so can win against such-and-such. We get some real fun and imaginative discussions on here occasionally, and it’s a shame that people like you have to go and ruin the fun for everyone else.

    • Suttree

      Good man Luckers and a great write up.

      To all the idiots from that FB group, OH NO another WoT community leader on the side of Quick Ben! Get the torches and pitchforks ready…

      The sad thing is it’s really not indicative of the WoT fan base in general, as has been mentioned there has been a fair amount of support from Dragonmount and Theoryland for Quick. A few noobs on FB blindly following characters, supporting cheating and advocating violence? Sweet.

      All I can say to them is threaten, yell, complain all you want but you aren’t going to get Terez to budge an inch once she has her mind made up.

    • Erunion

      @ MoRR

      It is not the duty of a leader, even an elected leader (which Terez is not) to do what the people want. It is the duty of the leader to lead the people in the direction of what is right.
      If the people refuse to follow, they can choose to put off that leader. But the leader must still follow their conscience, not do what they are told to do by a fickle populace. Probably the greatest problem with modern representative democracy is that all the leaders are too busy trying to do what the people want (so they get votes) instead of doing what the people need.

      That said, THIS IS A CAGE MATCH. ON THE INTERNETS!!ELEVNTYONE!!! If Terez votes QB because, you know, he should win (and I say this as a WOT fan who has never read Malazan), then let Terez vote that way!

      Now, in a final match between Vin and Quick Ben, the match would be close enough that I would vote for my favorite character rather than voting for a character who might have a marginally better chance, but in a curbstomp match like this or Vin vs. Jon, I will vote for the logical choice.

      Of course, that’s because I treat this as voting for who should win (with a tiny bit of who you prefer) as opposed to voting for who you prefer (with a tiny bit of who should win). That’s my perspective, and if you (like the WOT fan from a few pages ago) want to treat this match as a popularity contest, that’s absolutely fine! That’s your prerogative. But don’t get mad when someone sees things differently than you.


    • FastWave

      I’m rather pleased to see that moRR dude scared off by what was probably not Batman.

      Perhaps now we can discuss entities and separations in peace….



      Go KERMIT!!

      …wait…err…wrong poll.

      QUICK BEN!!

    • moRR

      lol whos scared? i just have work to do and not moan on forums all day and wait for replies u know…

      and im astounded u lot still dont get it. i dont care if she (its a SHE? well that explains a lot…) votes for micky mouse.
      I explained what was(is) bugging me soooo many times already… If u didnt get it by now u probably wont.

      To me it seems wrong when an individual uses a website/organization/etc to pass his/her own beliefs in the name of that particular site/org. Especially if it contradicts what that site/org. stands for.

    • Kevin

      As a WoT fan I voted for Quick Ben. He’d flatten Perrin in a greasy smear.

      Also, I want to see a Perrin VS Jon Snow losers match and a Rand vs Quick Ben champions battle.

      Both those battles would be fairly, evenly balanced (both in terms of the relative powerlevel of the combatants and size of the fanbase) and interesting to see imo.

    • Kevin

      As a WoT fan I voted for Quick Ben. He would blast Perrin into a greasy smear.

      Also, I would like to see a losers match between Jon Snow and Perrin and a battle of champions between Rand and Quick Ben. Both those matches would fairly evenly balanced (both in terms of the relative powerlevels of the combatants and the size of the voting fanbase) and would be rather interesting imo.

    • Kah-thurak

      I dont see much in favour of Jon Snow in a match against Perrin. He has even less actual fighting experience than Perrin, less “Wolf Support”, no magical Hammer, no improved senses, no access to the Wolfdream… should be an easy win for Perrin 😉

      At the same time, Vin’s possibillities seem much more limited than Quick Ben’s. Though I have not read the Mistborn books so others should elaborate.

    • trench


      At one point in the trilogy Vin would be able to give Quick Ben a run for his money. But its only a short period in the story and not really what her powers are. but for that 30 page span she was pretty unstopable.

    • Kevin


      Vin is awesome, but I don’t think she stands a chance against Quick in a straight up brawl.

      [MAJOR MISTBORN SPOILER, seriously, don’t read if you don’t want a part of it spoiled.]

      Unless we let Vin have the powers of Preservation, in that case she’s practicly an omnipotent and omnipresent god with the power to reshape the world and everything in it at will. But that happens only for a chapter or two near the very end of the trilogy and she needs all her power then to block an equally powerfull opponent.


      That’s why I’d like to see Quick Ben take the win against her, and be put against Rand Al’thor in a battle of champions, like they did last year with the villain cage match champion vs regular cage match champion. Only this time Rand might actually have to put some effort into it. :p

      I agree that Perrin would probably win vs Jon, but at least it would be a fairer fight than either of the semi-finals.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      @ Archon

      As has been pointed out several times Archon – everytime Terez posted regarding support for Quick Ben she SIGNED OFF THE COMMENT AS TEREZ! If you were unable to concieve this as her way of showing it was HER opinion and not the ENTITY that is the WoT FB page that’s your own failing.

      The only one not getting it is you! Now drop the goddamn subject – you make Palin sound reasonable!

      @Obscure(insert character)Fan

      I love you 😉

    • Sorkatani Loki


      My sincere apologies! I was going to address something you said and then had to address the annoyance that is MoRR and forgot to change the @ receipient.

      My bad, sorry!

    • Terez

      @moRR ‘(its a SHE? well that explains a lot…)

      And I have to say, that explains a lot about you.

    • Dreavyn

      Wow, I didn’t realize that having an individual opinion was such a bad thing…. that’s sad.

      Good on ya Terez! I don’t even know who this Quick Ben guy is and I can tell he would just murder Perrin. Don’t listen to these arse’s like Morr. (and the whole “it’s a SHE? well that explains a lot…”…. Wow, just wow. I didn’t realize we went back in time…. Odd that.)

      Oh, and I saw someone mention Mat being in a cage match… That would bring soooooo much controversy over his medalion. Would it stop just the One Power or would it stop all magic… blah blah blah…. could you imagine the comment section!! And his LUCK…. oh gosh… I <3 Mat. 😛

    • Terez

      The comments on Mat cage matches…oh god, I can see it now. It would be epic.

      Now for some reason I want to see Dany vs Mat in the finals next year. I think I’d have to vote for Dany.

    • Kristi Deming

      I’ve been carefully avoiding getting involved in this since my first comment, so I missed the whole Terez to-do (I’ll probably go back and read through again just to see.) The WoT people who know me really should expect this from me (I am still ticked at the way Rand won last year (it was funny, I admit, but still, he could have won without C’Thulhu.)) I’m definitely still pissed about the Covenant/Alvin Maker match (told you I’ll bitch about that one forever), and whoever got the idea that Perrin needed Rand to miraculously show up and Balefire Paul so Perrin could go on needs a repeat of the treatment Cadsuane gave Rand the first time he used it around her. (I seriously, totally, completely DESPISE Balefire!) We really do need to start protesting this thing, demand that people who have actually READ the books do the write-ups…

      That being said, I’m glad Perrin is finally getting some hair back on his chest (if only “SHE” would die!), but I am abstaining from voting. I don’t know enough about Ben to determine his survivability (Perrin’s survivability that is); my original post listed all the problems I had, everything from Perrin wouldn’t call the wolves to save himself and he can’t pull people into T’a’R cause he has to be asleep to get there, to how everyone is over-using the idea of Ta’veren and it’s mechanics.
      Now, if Ben were about to kill “HER”…I imagine most of WoT fandom would rush forward to restrain Perrin, yelling, “DO IT!! PLEASE BEN DO IT!!” That point was going to be if Ben was threatening “HER”, Perrin would provide a completely different match. There’s a lot to be said for Berserker rage.
      Still, my one vote makes no difference either way. I won’t vote for Perrin just because he’s WoT, and I won’t vote for Ben because I know nothing about him but what’s been posted here.

      @Terez It would be Dany’s Dragons vs Mat’s Dragons…can you say “Cataclysm”!?

    • Rojito Mellir

      @ Luckers and Terez

      I am an avid WoT fan and SoIaF, yet i completely back the fact that both of you were honest and real in your replys to the thread.

      Just because we love the series or enjoy them atleast does not mean we agree with the power level difference between multiple writers. Quick Ben’s power level is easily as high as Rands, and without Lews Therin there to direct his actions his knowledge of the sorcery is completely overwhelming. So here is the real question then, if Quick Ben could stand toe to toe to Rand, then how could Perrin stand toe to toe with Quick Ben? Does ANYONE honestly think Perrin could take Rand in a fight? Not so long as Rand could channel… and even then Rand is a Bladesmater, which means his inherent skill with a sword far surpasses an untrained blacksmith with a hammer. Perrin has some amazing qualities that would help him in a fight, but he is simply not on par with Quick Ben when it comes to power level and capabilities.

    • Terez

      @Kristi – I had a similar argument with someone on Facebook. She kept saying that Perrin would catch QB when he happened to touch TAR in his sleep, or something, and I was trying to explain why that was not incredibly likely. And just to be clear I also gave quotes showing that 1) Brandon said he doesn’t know how to find other people’s dreams at all, because the wolves don’t know how to do it and can’t teach him, and 2) Wise Ones said it was evil to pull someone into TAR anyway, and 3) Wise Ones said it was near impossible to control someone else’s dream – you’d have to pull them into TAR or into your own dreams (which is of course consistent with what we’ve seen Ishamael and Lanfear do). Anyway, I knew it would probably be deleted by the main admin, so I took a screenshot of her response:

      Epic, that. As for Mat and Dany….is it just me or does anyone else see some epic battlefield sex happening?

    • Anyone having a hard time following the comments can use this:

      Much easier.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Lets go, Quick Ben, let’s go!

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Extra! Extra! Read all about it!
      Quick Ben’s the best and there’s no doubt about it!
      He’s rough and he’s tough and he’s hard and buff!
      Come on, Quick Ben, do your stuff!

      ~ Yeah, so obviously I was never a cheerleader but I maintain I would have rocked the outfit.

    • moRR

      @the she comment
      trolling successful. mission accomplished.

      at some point simple arguing becomes boring if it goes on for too long without any effect.

    • Quick Ben, Quick Ben
      He’s our man!
      If he can’t do it
      Then Perrin sure as hell can’t!

    • @moRR – If you were trying to troll us with that comment, then you failed pretty badly. No one went into a frenzy about it. We just noted that it says something about your character. I’m glad you finally admitted you are a troll, though. Now we can all move on and talk about more interesting things.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      All this talk of QB is making me hungry…’s letters like KFC….hey, just because you don’t see the logic behind it doesn’t mean it is logical 😉

    • moRR

      actually.. at first i wasnt. the first burst. and i still stand by the first argument (although i COULD have written it in 2 sentences instead of 9000).

      afaic u fukd it up. not by voting for Slow (who cares what anyone likes or not…), but the admin/page abusal thing. u srsly need to stop that and think before doing it in the future. u surely have twitter or something. use that.
      even that outburst of the chick in ur screenshot shows it. folks who really FOLLOW the fan page and even write on it are totally devoted to WoT not just random “fans”. and admin/site posting something against it (not just in a random discussion) will aggrevate many. its YOUR responsibility to expect and avoid that.

      Halfway through i saw we’re getting nowhere, so why not try to to drag it out for some fun… there wasnt much of it though. only that batman guy was awesome 😀

      as to a more pretty subject, i hope they put moiraine in next year. best character ever imo.
      im surprised no one mentions her when picking candidates… why?

    • Sorkatani Loki

      “as to a more pretty subject, i hope they put moiraine in next year. best character ever imo.
      im surprised no one mentions her when picking candidates… why?”

      Now is this you joking again or being serious?

      Surely, it’s a joke…..yeah, has to be.

    • @moRR – All that chick’s outburst shows is that there are some really fucking ignorant and oversensitive people on the internet. Just like you. And for the last time, I don’t give a flying rat’s ass about YOUR opinion.

      @Loki – Come on, really? Moiraine kicks ass.

    • moRR

      no idea 😀 im trying to be done with the previous subject as much for the sake of myself as for you. we were getting nowhere, theres no fun in it anymore, so i tried to drop it finally.

      and i dont know what ur refering to. me trying to get over it, me saying moiraine is awesome or me missing comments mentioning her?

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Terez – Compared to the other female roles in WoT she is ‘da bomb’ but compared to females in other books I don’t rate her highly. Sowwy 🙁

    • moRR

      well, but u should care for what those “oversensitive, ignorant” folks think. since ur an admin of a fan page. its ur job to care for content, not telling fans they are “too much into it”.

    • Kolo Navi

      Heh, I like these Cage Matches. It shows those, who are fans and those, who are hardcore psychopats mixing something unimportant like fictional characters with something crucial in everyones life… Those bullshits about Terez failing her leadership or what are perfect example of the second diagnosis. Saying “devouted” in meaning “non-thinking fanatics” is nice example:) So, Go Terez, Go!:)

    • @Loki – Oh, it’s okay. But she killed more Forsaken than anyone else but Rand, and her strength of character makes her pretty fearless in battle. Far from a joke. I’d say more but I don’t want to spoil later books for those who haven’t made it that far. 😉

    • @moRR – I do care what people think in general. A small, ignorant and hateful portion of the fandom is far from the top of my priority list, though. Most people read other books.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Terez – I have read the books and I do actually agree, to a point, that she would rock. I wsa just hoping you’d pick up on the ‘female’ aspect and then I could have done some 1950’s tripe about women not being in the same league as men 😀

    • @Loki – This time I linked my blog. You should read the latest entry – it has a nice debate between mostly me and Brandon but also others on the issue of gender and sexuality in WoT. Not much detail at first – just a rant – but you know most of the details if you’ve read WoT.

    • Tiam

      I cant believe this personal attack is still going on. Why anyone is still responding to this moRR is beyond me .

      A simple ‘cool story bro’ would suffice

    • I respond to him because I enjoy the triumph of logic.

    • moRR

      not sure, but u seem to think that being “a bit of a fanatic”(which could come across as ignorant and hateful) over a certain thing (even if its a book) is bad… if it gives folks relief over some trully bad things, how’s that bad?
      imo admins job isn’t telling people they are too big a fans…

      anyway, i think we’re repeating ourselves. i’ll drop this. though i hope u at least got what i was trying to get across, even if u dont really care.

      at first it was i suppose, but now, if u cant distinguish argument from mindless attack, too bad.

    • Sorkatani Loki

      Terez – Nice blog 😉 There’s no way for me to say that without it needing a wink.

      I’ll be honest, I’m not a fan of RJ as a writer – his ideas were great but he isn’t what I personal call an entertaining writer. Long-winded and full of unnecessary details is my usual description. I also find the majority of the females in his books to be utterly annoying and worthy of a good slap about the head (I can say that cos I’m a girl and therefore shows bitchiness and not acceptance of violence against women). And if they tug their braids one more time I’m going to cut them all off! HOWEVER, I do agree with you that for the time that they were written the female characters he created were progressive in that they had grit and opinions and a sense of independce and a belief in their own capabilites instead of just being damsel in distress and nothing more. Still, that doesn’t change the fact that they annoy the hell out of me – not because they are repressed/weak/unable to do anything but look pretty (because they’re not) but because their personalities make me want to choke them all and then dance around their graves whilst laughing.

    • moRR

      lol wtf, how is admitting u dont care for a portion of fans, and judge em for their devotion, a trimuph of logic? (and i still stand by my original argument, so hows failing to convince someone a triumph?)

    • @Loki – Yeah, I discussed the problem of the annoying female characters somewhere in there, I think. I am rather fond of RJ’s writing, but I get that some people aren’t. RJ loves Dickens, for example, but Dickens for me is like RJ is for some people – unnecessarily longwinded, too many superfluous details, etc.

      @moRR – Do you have any idea who you are talking to? I am one of the most fanatic WoT fans in the world. It’s not fanaticism that is the problem, but the ignorant, intolerant, and hateful comments that came out of that Facebook page. There’s just no excuse for that.

    • Sorkatani Loki


      It’s a triumph because she has consistently responded to your comments in a manner that have allowed you to make a massive arse of yourself numerous times whilst Terez has maintained her dignity and composure….some qualities you seemed to have forgotten or misplaced.

    • @moRR – As to your last post, what you don’t seem to get is that you can’t please everyone. There were some WoT fans who were upset about people promoting Perrin in the match because it seems to make the assumption that all WoT fans would rather vote for Perrin over QB when probably a good 1/3 would not (and did not). I assume that most WoT fans care about other books, and therefore I don’t feel the need to cater to a small group of hateful and ignorant fans. Why should I?

    • Barryl

      Speaking as someone who is a huge fan of both series. Quick would win 100%. Anyone who argues against that is just being silly. Now if you made it a channeller taking on QB, it would be closer. Personally I’d love to see Graendal take him on, because it would be interesting to see if she could manipulate someone as wily as Quick Ben.

      This whole idea is flawed when you have magic and non-magic characters clashing, I think.

      Divide between both and have a final matchup for the most popular overall character between both. At least then the ridiculous results would be limited to one matchup.

    • moRR

      i dont care how i come across. its internet ffs and if i want i pick another nick and im mr cool…
      and what good does composure do when u arent convincing?
      though if she was smart shed ignore me when i was all puffy n stuff and id have a squat of an argument then… thankfully its a new day and im trying to have a civilized convo for a change 😀

      ok fair enough, but u make it sound impossible to “cater to all”, when it has a small and obvious fix. u said it urself that folks on FB page are kind of heated (u knew that beforehand i take it?), so why did u poke em with the “quick comment”, when u could avoid all of this? which im sorry, would be the right thing to do, since many dont know you (myself included), and it came across as a shock (when admin posts something like that… ).
      thats precisely what im moaning about: YOU dont feel the need “to cater”! on fb >>as ADMIN/site<< its not really ur place i think to serve ur personal beliefs which contradicts the sites general content. unell u post it as you (and a simple "admins signature" doesnt really do the trick)
      im speaking about FB page, not other sites. and i dont pretend to know whats going on there.

    • @Terez
      This argument is getting plain ridiculous.
      I’ve been reading WoT since ’96 and have been following various WoT devoted sites throughout the years. Haven’t met you but I can safely say that you appear to do a great job. Good theories, always worth a read.

      @ everyone else
      Sorry for straying off topic. I DID however vote for QB. And I do honestly believe that – all unlikelyness aside – if they happened to somehow end up in TAR, Perry would be able to stop Quick Ben. Just my 50 cents…

    • Sorkatani Loki

      For two rounds now I have been emailing (spaming, some would say) my friends, family, people whose email addresses are on my account and a few randoms I have no idea who they are asking them to vote for Quick Ben….it is looking like I will need to do the same again for the final battle….I may end up with lots of hate mail and fewer friends but it will be worth it to see Quick Ben win 😀

    • I’m done with people who can’t even use whole words and think that they are the center of the universe and should have all of their whims catered to. Just saying. 😉

    • Sorkatani Loki

      @Terez – But I thought we were friends! 😉

    • @Loki – You use whole words at least. 😉

    • moRR

      I don’t have the bloody time at the moment to care about grammar and such, when writing like “cu ltr” saves time and effort. Picking on that is just dumb.
      After all, we are arguing on the Internetz.

      English isn’t even my mother language, so I think I’m doing a pretty good job of it anyway…

      By the way, leaders as politicians have to decide what’s good for people, when “leaders” of entertainment business have to do what PEOPLE think it’s good for them.

    • niki

      Everyone is entitled to their opinions just as everyone enjoys different writing styles. I, along with MANY others, love the Wheel of TIme and RJ’s writing. I can, however, understand why some people wouldn’t enjoy his writing and will of course leave them to their opinions and preferences.. As a person who obtains the majority of their entertainment from literature, I appreciate the extra details that set the scene. I thoroughly love how RJ makes the story come alive in my head.

      I don’t care how likely he is to win… COME ON PERRIN! <3

    • ThierryS

      Lol wolves wouldnt be fool by illusions … QB can fool human, ascendant, gods chosen and even undead beasts with illusions … but yea wolves are clearly superior … because they can smell !!! and of course one of the most brilliant mages of his time wouldnt tough of altering the odor of his illusions when facing animals

    • Bauchelain

      This was laready brought up. While average mages’ illusions are merely optical and bidimensional, powerful mage can create illusion so realistic that they can actually kill someone. And of course there’s no reason for Quick to not just use Mockra, warren of the mind, and simply take control of the wolves or simply blast them to oblivion or just open a warren in front of them and make them disappear.

    • not dead


    • @notdead – Well, for another 30 minutes or so, anyway. 😀


    • Sorkatani Loki

      Let’s go, Quick Ben, let’s go!

    • Sorkatani Loki

      *tears of joy*

    • AHEM

      I must say, with both semifinal matches concluded, I could not be happier with the outcomes.

      I was worried from the get-go that this would end with popularity overriding good sense and a final between Jon Snow and Perrin. Now, however, both Vin and Quick Ben have triumphed and advanced to the finals, defeating the bland expectation and placing the finals between two worthy characters who have power, intelligence, and skill, not just an army of fans. At the same time, a consolation round will still allow us to see the Jon Snow vs. Perrin match up we wanted, and a nice little friendly rematch between aSoIaF and WoT.

      The semifinals were really suspenseful for me, particularly Vin vs. Jon Snow (I literally lost sleep over it), but now that both matches have turned out positively, my fears have been laid to rest. I’ve voted for both Vin and Quick Ben in every single match up from round one all the way up to here, and I think they’re both worthy of being the champion this year. So, it’s really become a win-win situation for me. I’m glad that intelligence, interesting scenarios, and powerful characters who use their magic to its fullest extent are the ultimate winners here.

    • Probably Not Batman

      At last, a final that won’t be ‘Vin Pushed the coin through Perrin’s forehead. The End.’ You know, an interesting one.

    • Congrats everyone!

      If anyone is interested, I’m running a contest for a good QB vs Vin write-up. Free personalized copy of TWOK, shipped to anywhere in the world.

    • Jabber

      You said it perfectly. What a great match-up we have now that is not based on Fanboyism or this is a “Popularity Contest” folks.

      Oh and to all the crazy WoT Fanboys that were being rude, illogical and going so far as to pick on WoT members who voted for the logical choice which was QB, well Perrin lost and you can stick it……….PERRIN LOST, PERRIN LOST, PERRIN LOST. Ahaaaaaaaaa………..

    • Jlingo

      Well, well, well. Looks like Fizban (Paladine) got some revenge on Perrin for sending that pack of wolves at Tas and shaped fate and got Perrin to lose…….

    • Peter Ahlstrom

      Okay, now that that’s over with, does Vin stand a chance against Quick Ben without going Shard Vin?

    • Suttree

      I am a WoT fan and regular over at Dragonmont that voted for Quick Ben too. Such a joke, all the idiots picking on Terez. She has dedicated a ton of time to the community over the years. We already have an uphill battle in terms of perception from other fandoms and trolls like MoRR are certainly not making it any easier. Good on ya Terez, appreciate all your efforts!

    • Suttree

      Btw really wish Erikson would actually do a write up for this. Think Quick should win it all and I would love to read a well written piece on the final!

    • Teddyholden

      Where is Verin Sedai?!

    • lol

      Hey Terez, gfu. Your side cheated to win. Won’t matter though, cuz Vin has bigger and better cheaters than you.

      Hey Jabber, gfu. Your side cheated to win. Won’t matter though, cuz y’all don’t have the balls to win clean

      Hey Archon, gfu. Your side cheated to win. Won’t matter though cuz w/db’s like you, people will simply vote for the other side because who wants to support a fandom that includes people like you.


      who else needs a gfu…….

    • lolisaloser

      Listen lol, take down the Perrin posters off your bedroom wall and stop being like a Twilight obsessed girl. Your character lost and I am sure the WoT fanboys did plenty of cheating to get him to that many votes and he still lost. You know why? Because he couldn’t beat QB ever. Get over it. Chump…

    • Tsavard

      Lets speak of this threw actual book lore, without trying to get facts out of nowhere.

      To poeple of havent read Malazan book of the fallen … 1st DO IT ! you owe it to yourself, it is truly a masterpiece.

      Ok, Malazan magic come from warren ( kinda like elemental plane ). A wizard can only attune to 1 warren (death (necro), life ( healer ), mind (psychic ) earth, wind, etc) Now, there was a magical purge done by the stronest empire on earth, a mage is already rare, but a High mage is excessively rare. During that purge, 12 High Mage decide to merge their souls together and empty their body to fake their death while fleeing the strongest elite army of that empire. The resulting wizard, Quick Ben, have access to ALL warrens, even some of the Elder warren, who are suppose to be unaccessible to humans.

      So if he decide to make an illusion using Mokra warren ( the warren of the mind which seems to be his strongest ) , hes not creating an image on the ground that is seemly visible adn trying to alter the reality around that image, hes putting the image into your brain, and makes you beleive you can smell, taste feel whatever he wants. In the latest part of the book, as he develop his powers, he have been able to do such illusions on whole armies. So to get the wolves to think Perrin is him isnt hard, even to a massive pack of wolves.

      Now, if Perrin could access your Tar at will in middle of the fight ( if he have done it in the books ) that I’d say they would probably be on fair ground, since this magic would cancel each other. Even than, I’m pretty sure QB would win. He’s used to going into warrens, and manipulating their energy, so he would find instantly what is this Tar world and figure out how it works. QB have won this fair and square.

    • Orange Turnip


      Thanks to the WoT FB page of which I was a member, until all this crap about Terez happened and I decided I didn’t want to belong to a group like that, I now know private browsing exists. I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone now knows. You should be ashamed at yourselves – not for cheating but for being so goddamn stupid as to advertise the fact!

      At least now it will come down to whoever has the most dedicated fanbase. I think that on single votes alone Vin would win giving the past poll numbers but then we can’t be sure how accurate those were anymore. Either way, from what I have seen of these Malazan supporters with everyone being on equal footing now with this multiple votes thing I feel they are likely to win. They seem to have an almost unhealthy obsession and complete dedication in regards to seeing Quick Ben win.

      I have read Mistborn and I have now read the first three Malazan books. I feel that this will be a close match up and it will come down to whoever gets in first and attacks the fastest that will determine who wins. Though, I have noticed that Quick Ben often works as a duo while Vin doesn’t rely on her allies as much. I think in a realistic battle Quick Ben would engage the help of Kalam/Fiddler or another of his team mates to ensure his victory. However, I don’t think people would be happy with that write up despite it being most likely. Take away Quick Ben’s allies and he is just as powerful, if not more, then Vin – give Quick Ben his allies and I can’t forsee him ever losing against anyone.

      My vote will be going to Quick Ben in the final round though depending on what the write up is I may have to flip a coin to decide.

    • ProviD

      Damn those (overpowered as whole) magic-users!
      I demand a fair fisticuffs as a rematch! 😉

    • Josh

      The way the fight is described is total BS. An illusion wouldn’t make the wolves unable to recognize Perrin. He’s telepathically linked to them. So….Fail.

    • Archon

      @ lol

      1) I don’t have a side at this point… Both Vin and QB are deserving champions. I wouldn’t be disapointed if either of them won.

      2) Enough people supported a “fandom that includes people like me” to defeat the fandom that clearly included people like you… sometimes I wonder if some of you people even read the comments you write since you don’t seem to realize how horribly they are about to get knocked out of the ballpark…

      Go suffer alone with your bitterness loser… those of us who voted for the rightful finalists are perfectly content right now.

    • Rhulad

      Worst troll I’ve seen in ages. Shouldn’t you be playing WoW, starting flame-wars in trade chat? I can remember when trolls (though still annoying) actually had a point. I suggest the book “Trolling for Dummies” dude.

      I am still of the opinion that Quick Ben might be a bit too over-powered for this tourney. I love Perrin, but am also of the opinion that (as far as progression goes in each series) Perrin is still unsure of himself, and his powers. While Quick Ben has very nearly ascended to god-hood. I considered the write-up kinda “meh”. Don’t think Perrin would have lost in that manner, but he would have eventually lost.

      Can’t say i know much about this Vin character as I have yet to read the series. I’ve heard she is pretty deadly though. My vote is still for Quick Ben (1 vote as always, so suck my asshole taco-benders).

    • Archon

      Very eloquently stated Rhulad lol…

    • LOL


      Archon, your still a fkn bitter piece of internet trash. GFU

      To those who think QB fans didn’t cheat: Why is it that there are more votes for QB in this match that were acumulated by both QB and VIN in their matchup…….U R this biggest dbags. At least some fans can admit that they took advantage of the system. Dont you dare pretend that you won this match clean.

      @ Rhulad: Can I borrow it from you. They tell me at the library you were the last one to check it out…. GFU

      @ Orange Turnip: We advertised it?! Do you know where that page got it from?! A Vin support group…..hmmmmmm a lil research on your part would go a long way. GFU

      Who else needs a GFU?

    • Logan

      I’m not disappointed with the outcome, but I think Perrin went down awful fast for someone who recently (according to the books) led a charge down a hill into a swarm of man-beasts.

    • Rhulad

      @LOL Troll more! Please! 😀

    • Gideon

      Hey – isn’t Quick Ben supposed to be black?

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