Cage Match 2012: Round 3: Erevis Cale versus Rachel Morgan


The Contestants


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Click to view original image source

Erevis Cale
First Chosen of the Shadowlord

Age: 40s
Race: Shade
Weapons / Artifacts: Weaveshear
Redirect magic back at caster with Weaveshear

Rachel Morgan
Owner, Vampiric Charms and former Inderland Security runner
Age: Late 20s
Race: Witch
Weapons / Artifacts: Magic. Really good at magic. Also, sarcasm. Leather pants.
Don’t be near a ley line if you want to survive. Or near Jenks.

The Breakdown


  • Infused with shadowstuff (as a result, can teleport from shadow to shadow, make shadowy duplicates of himself, merge with darkness)
  • Regenerative flesh
  • Powerful user of priestly magic

  • A witch and therefore capable of casting spells and using magic
  • Has a strange love/hate relationship with Trenton Kalamack
  • Best friends are a living vampire and a pixy

  • Sometimes “angsty”

  • Often her own worst enemy due to stubbornness and angst—and getting into those leather pants


How we think the fight will go

How Paul S. Kemp, creator of Erevis Cale, thinks the match will go:

Lightning painted jagged green lines on the starless vault of the Shadowfell’s sky. Thunder rumbled, a deep groan, as if the world were in pain.

And Cale supposed it was.

Shadows roiled around him, their dark churn a reflection of his thoughts. He stood on a balcony in the highest tower of his basalt citadel, staring up at the glowing gash in the sky.

The rift hadn’t shrunk. Cale had murdered two people, thinking that would close and end the crossovers that were destabilizing the multiverse. But the blood he’d spilled had been a libation to indifferent gods. The rift remained as it had been, several leagues wide, glowing green and blue and yellow, a bruise-colored hole in the fabric of the multiverse.

If it weren’t closed soon, he knew, it would consume everything. Everyone everywhere would die. The multiverse would end in nothingness.

He had to learn more of its origin.

Intoning the words to a powerful divination, he smeared shadows across the air before his face, read the meaning in their pattern, in their swirling whorls and spirals. Words came to him, alien words that originated on alien worlds, names of beings he never should have known: Kylar Stern, Revan, Kelsier, Rachel Morgan.
And every name was a symptom of the multiverse’s sickness. All of those beings stood between him and his ability to seal the rift. The rift….

He focused the energy of his spell on the rift, looking for a magical signature, anything that would tell him of its origin. And he soon had it.

His spell pulled a presence from the shadows, showed him the cause of the rift, the towering, dark presence that loomed behind it all, a being with the power of a god, a being whose name Cale now knew.

Anomander Rake.

Rake was responsible for the rift. Rake was responsible for everything.

Cale would have to find him, and then find a way to kill him.

But others stood in the way, beings Rake was using to thwart any attempt to stop him and seal the rift.

Cale would have to kill them first.

He picked a name at random from those he had learned.

Rachel Morgan would be the next to die.

He drew Weaveshear, hooked the foci of his divination onto Rachel Morgan’s name, and so learned the location to which he must travel.

Thunder rumbled anew as he drew the darkness about him, stepped through the shadows, and went off to kill.


He materialized on another world, in the tree line at the edge of an open meadow. A single moon cut a silver crescent in a sky filled with stars he didn’t know. Insects chirped and buzzed. He merged his form with the darkness, turning himself invisible.

Stones decorated the meadow, arranged in a semi-circular pattern. He sensed the magic of the place, though the feel of it was foreign to him.

Rachel Morgan stood in the meadow.

Seeing her, he cursed softly. The darkness around him churned. He’d not expected a woman. Even in his days as a paid assassin, he’d never murdered a woman.

Resolve drained from him, as if pouring through a hole in his heel. He sheathed his blade, unable to act. From the darkness he watched her, a ghost haunting her movements, trying to reconcile himself to blood.

She moved from stone to stone, touching each one in turn, sparks of magic flowing from her fingers as her fingers touched rock. He prowled along the edge of the meadow, a dark, silent shadow trailing her steps. He flashed back on Tazi and Varra, the only two women he’d ever loved, inasmuch as he could love. Rachel Morgan reminded him of them somehow. It wasn’t just her beauty, though there was that. And it wasn’t just the way she brushed her red hair from her face. It was the confidence of her movements, the grace. She was formidable; he could see that.

He imagined he would have liked Rachel Morgan if he hadn’t come to kill her.

Sentimentality made him doubt, and doubt made him sloppy. A branch snapped under his step. Rachel froze, looked over at him, head cocked, eyebrows raised in a question. He would’ve sworn she looked directly at him, saw him for a moment, though that shouldn’t have been possible.

It was excuse enough. He drew the darkness fully about him and rode the shadows back to the Shadowfell. He didn’t have a murder in him, not right then.


Rachel watched the shadowman pull the darkness to him and disappear into it, going back to whatever sunless world he called home.

“Really?” she said. “Dark, shadowy assassin type? That’s what I get? Cliché much, pal? Hell, I’ll bet you have a heart of gold, too, or at least an honorable streak.”

She sat cross-legged on one of the stones of the meadow while the glamour that looked exactly like her—a distraction designed to draw fire—continued to move from stone to stone and cast illusory spells. A leyline bisected the meadow and she’d used its power to fuel a series of defensive wards and magical alarms. She wouldn’t be taken by surprise again, and she wouldn’t be taken from earth, not again. She’d wait out this idiot cosmic game on a leyline, in her meadow. If she were forced to face someone else, to kill someone else, she’d do it on earth.

She’d watched the darkman as he’d watched her glamour. She’d sensed the power in him. But he was no demon, no fey, no kind of being she’d ever seen before. He was…something else.

And yet there was something human in him. She’d seen the hesitation in his yellow eyes, the doubt written in his expression. He’d come to kill her. Of that she had no doubt, but he’d faltered. But he didn’t want to.
She hoped she never saw him again, hoped he’d reconsidered his course. Because she knew that if she did see him again, if he did come back, he would be coming to kill her. And she knew he wouldn’t hesitate again.

“You should’ve taken your shot when you thought you had it, shadowman. That hesitation’s gonna cost you if you come back here.”

She knew quite well how to deal with a man who lived in the dark.


Cale paced his sanctum, out of view of the rift, trying to figure out another course. But there wasn’t, and he knew it.

He stacked coins, played chess against himself, rifled scrolls and books, all of it mundane nonsense designed to file while his conscience caught up with events. In time he came to the only conclusion possible.

He’d have to kill Rachel.

“Damn it.”

Rake would answer for Rachel, for all of the dead, if Cale could make it through to him.

His mind made up, he stepped through the shadows, from his sanctum to the plains of the Shadowfell. From there, he took one last glance up at the rift, the mouth that was eating existence, a reminder to himself of the stakes.

He jingled the coins in his pocket (he must have shoved some of them there while stacking them), put murder on his mind and drew Weaveshear. He pulled the darkness about him and stepped between worlds.


Once more he materialized in the darkness of the tree line. Rachel sat on one of the stones in the center of the meadow, her back to him. He could make it quick. She’d feel nothing.

He stepped out of the trees and into the meadow and the moment he did white light blared from above. It originated from everywhere, fulgent, blinding, hitting him like a physical thing, stripping away the darkness that shrouded him, driving him to his knees. Shadows poured from his flesh, but lingered for only a moment before the light burned them away. He groaned, eyes watering, and tried to feel the darkness of the forest right behind him, but couldn’t. Something blocked his perception.

“Take away the night and you’re like a turtle without your shell,” said a woman’s voice, Rachel Morgan’s voice. She stood and walked a few steps toward him. “Kinda one-dimensional, aren’t you? I mean, darkness is your thing? Really?”

Still holding Weaveshear, fighting against the pain, he crawled on all fours toward her.

“Oh, none of that, now,” she said, and waved a hand.

In response to her words, the earth squirmed under him, the grass and weeds growing, thickening, whipping about. They grabbed at him, wormed their way into his clothing, pulled him down as if trying to draw him into the soil, into a grave. He fought against them, struggled, but every strand of grass or weed he broke, ten took its place. They were wrapping him up, cocooning him. Soon he was covered in them, barely able to move.

“I’m sorry about this,” Rachel said. “But you came here to kill me, right? Probably told yourself ‘Killing’s what I was born to do,’ all hardass like, right?” She shook her head and paced a small circle.“You men and your egos.”

He grunted, tore at the grass, got himself again to all fours, moved in a halting crawl toward her. He needed a shadow, some darkness, but the light of her spell killed them all. There were none in the meadow.

“You’re thinking about the light, aren’t you?” she said. “It’s a simple spell, really. You know what ‘local noon?’ means? No? It means the sun is directly above an object, such that the object casts no shadow. This spell’s like that except in spades. It puts a magical source of illumination directly over every object in the meadow and then stays there, even if the object moves. Hence, no shadows.” She clucked her tongue. “Hence, sad shadowman. And my wards isolate the meadow from everything outside it, so no leaving the field of play, as it were. It’s just you and me, kid.”

She stood maybe ten paces from him.

Grass wormed into his mouth, choking off his air. Weeds clogged his ears, blocked his vision. He was sinking into the earth. Several strands wrapped around his throat and started to squeeze. He gasped, tried to grab at them but couldn’t free an arm. Shadows poured from his flesh, but Rachel’s spell quickly burned them away.

Weaveshear was too big to be of use, so he reached for his dagger with his off-hand, grunting against the pull of the meadow’s vegetation. Sparks exploded in his brain, the lack of air blurring his vision, clouding his thinking. He couldn’t reach his dagger, could only reach his pocket and the handful of coins it held.
He almost laughed at the silliness of it.

And then an idea struck him.

He closed his fist over the coins, pulled his hand free, and squirmed desperately to free up his arm. The vegetation clutched at him, choked him, reached into his throat, his eyes, his ears and nose. He couldn’t breathe; he couldn’t see; he was dying.

“Sorry, darkman,” Rachel said. She sounded far, far away.

“You’re not killing me,” he grunted. “You’re killing everyone.”

She stopped her pacing, faced him. “What’s that now?”

Her hesitation cost her. The grass and weeds relented, just for a moment, and desperation lent him strength. He freed his arm for just a breath and used that breath to cast the handful of coins into the air, in Rachel’s direction.

As he’d hoped, her spell could not keep track of all of them, could not follow the random movement of their flight. For just a fraction of a heartbeat, the coins flew oblique to the magical light of her noontime spell, and as they did, each coin put a tiny shadow on the ground.

And Cale felt them all as they formed, felt their connection to him, each shadow a tiny hole in the defenses Rachel had so carefully crafted. He felt the correspondence between the darkness that bled from his flesh and the shadows cast by the coins. An instant was all he needed, a moment.

He moved from one shadow to another, leapfrogging across the meadow until he materialized behind Rachel. She whirled, eyes wide, words of power forming on her lips, but before she could utter them, he drove Weaveshear up through her ribcage and into her heart. She gasped, a small sound that would haunt Cale a long while.

“I’m sorry, Rachel Morgan,” he said, as she sagged toward him, her hands clutching his cloak.

“What..have…you done?” she said, her blood warm on his hand.

“What I had to,” he said softly. “It’s night now. Rest.”

He cradled her as she died, and after she was gone, the light from her spell failed and darkness reclaimed the meadow. She lay limp in his arms.

Cale stood, pushed away the guilt he felt, and arranged her body in a posture of repose. He closed her eyes, bade her godspeed, and left her there.

As he pulled the night around him and rode it back to the Shadowfell, grief gave way to anger and he shouted the name of his hate into the heavens, the name that had made all of this necessary.


Predicted Winner: Erevis Cale


Check out the previous match!

We’ll be down to just eight characters in Round 4, starting March 26th!

Check out the Bracket

Erevis Cale is a character from the Erevis Cale trilogy by Paul S. Kemp; JRachel Morgan is a character from The Hollows series by Kim Harrison.

Erevis Cale image courtesy of Raymond Swanland and Wizards of the Coast. Rachel Morgan image courtesy of *ValliantCreations

Don’t forget–we’re always looking for fans’ depictions of these characters. Check out the details here

Cage Match fans: We are looking forward to hearing your responses! If possible, please abstain from including potential spoilers about the books in your comments (and if you need spoilers to make your case, start your comments with: “SPOILER ALERT!”


  • Jlingo

    What a brilliant, brilliant write-up! Kemp has written the best cage fights scenarios ever in my opinion. Love the addition of current participants left and how Cale includes them in his mission to stop the rift. We see the motivation/emotions/thought process of the character in a story woven in with present cage fight possibilities. Rake is even mentioned and becomes the protagonist! Simply the best!

  • Errg! Accursed typos. Apologies for those, folks. That should be “designed to fill time while his conscience….” not “file.”

    Well, hope you enjoy anyway. These are fun. 🙂


  • Ahimsa

    This is one of my favorite write-ups ever, and I don’t even know either character. Kudos to you, Mr. Kemp.

  • Archon

    Very entertaining write up… my question would be about Cale’s power… is it shadow based, or darkness based? Either way, I’m not really sure he wants to be calling out the Son of Darkness, Knight of High-House Dark… Cale seems like a pretty cool character, but that would seem a bit like Lake Superior calling out the Pacific Ocean in a water-based fight…

  • Seth

    Hats off. Great write-up.

  • D.I. Waisanen

    I hope that Cale wins this one: These are easiest the best write-ups in the entire tournament, and are becoming a really interesting story. Not to mention, this was a really clever interaction of powers that found a creative way for Cale to win.

  • Burgher

    Love the write-up, Mr. Kemp! I thoroughly enjoyed both series (and hope to see more of Erevis down the line) but I voted for Rachel. She pulls through, usually with help from her friends, and not without issues, but Erevis likes to fight his battles for himself. I think Rachel can better handle an unpredictable opponent with unknown skills. Honestly, I’d see it going down as a draw, with both limping off, but I had to go one way or the other.

  • John

    Nicely told, but it has a sort of a “Bambi vs. Godzilla” vibe that I just can’t quite get behind. No matter how tortured a soul gets over the needless death of (fill in the blank) to save all of existence from (fill in the blank), there’s no drama to a one-sided battle no matter how dramatically it’s written.

  • David

    Here we go with the silliness again. Erevis has shown that he can take on multiple opponents in the past. I’m sorry, but if Rachel wins, it is solely on popularity.

  • Chaemin

    Gotta go with Rachel myself!

  • See

    Gotta vote for Cale come on folks lets not make this a popularity contest. Kemps write ups are the best by far you don’t want it to end here. Do you want a boring Rachel vs kyler vs Rake ending or a epic tale Cale vs Kyler ending against Rake himself. come on Cale start prepping w/ prayer for spells from Mask before starting further battle. Especially if he’s fighting all these unknowns.

  • Asteron

    I would like to point out that Cale hasn’t once cast any of his Cleric spells, which are some of the most powerful spells in the D&D worlds. Heck, he could have just prepared the spell Darkness and he would have been just fine…

    Honestly, in terms of power, this isn’t a fair fight. If we want to bring friends into it, Cale has those in spades…

  • Sorry people I think Rachel can do it. She is always the underdog in ever fight she’s in. She seems to know how to kick ass and take names. Plus hello she’s a day walking demon she wins hands down. Love Rachel

  • Dave

    He’s the chosen of Mask, First of five, shadow dragon’s give him leeway, has done battles w/ arch devils and demigods. Whats a demon to him. He has yet to use his arsenal of spells.. Hope he wins so the readers and enjoy future battles where he uses his whole repatua..

  • Lizzy

    There is one thing I really hate about this write up. Mr. Kemp has given the scenario that Cale will save the world through killing Rachel, while Rachel is on a defensive know nothing. Of course that gives Cale the advantage.
    But what if the write up was opposite, that Cale had no knowledge of Rachel, but that she has found out that through defeating him she will a) save the world, b) save her friends, c) save Ivy’s soul, etc.
    At this point I would see the match up as being who was more determined, who had the most to lose/gain. So yes, with this write up scenario I think Cale would win. But in another, Rachel would win.
    So I think it’s a toss up between these two.
    I’m voting Rachel, because I’m all about the “how can I defeat and get my purpose without having to kill a freaking innocent person.” But that’s just me.

  • Tracey “Lippy” Lipford

    Mr. Kemp made one tactical mistake in this scenario that leads to me disagreeing with his conclusion: he has Rachel in her meadow either right under or maybe even right in a ley line. Anywhere else, she’d have to rely on spindled ley energy, and I’d give it to Cale. However, with a direct connection to a line, I’d highly disagree that her spell couldn’t keep up with the coins being tossed. It’d be the difference between a light bulb running off a battery and one hooked directly up to a nuclear power plant. Advantage: Rachel.

  • Excellent write-up, I must say. Of course, no ley lines were brought into the mix, which would have made things even more interesting from a battle standpoint at least. However, I really like the Rachel character, and given the lack of females in the tourney I’m going to go with the underdog here.

  • Kvothe_the_Bloodless

    The Rake angle is very interesting…Is Kemp predicting the finals? *Gasp* Is that allowed from the authors? I would love to see a Erevis vs. Anomader finals though, that would be pretty awesome!

  • Anders

    First I´d like to say that it was a very good story but… Rachel would have trapped him in a circle first to find out his true intentions. She must have some questions for him!!! and if she wanted to get rid of him she could have linejumped him and then let him drift off in the emptiness. She is a daywalking demon and I don´t know if she´s got some other life force besides a beating heart that she´s not aware of to make her tic. But she might. She is after all immortal.

  • Tim

    Don’t feel I can vote in this one. Not an obvious enough Cale-win based off what I know of Rachel, as much as I really want to see an Erevis vs Kylar match (although people’s arguments for Rachel in the comments are very far from convincing, so was the story).

  • Fellfire

    Vasen Coriver FTW.

  • Xebicls

    Everyone who wants to talk tactics, whatever. Kemps holding back on Cales true potential so far in these fights as it is, so arguing hypothetical tactics is a moot point. Also, as there’s only one author doing the writeup per fight, of course they are going to be showing their view of how it would go. Fact remains, Kemp has done the 1 thing that has distinguished Cale from the rest of the contenders. Hes given context for the killing, and a plot. If not for anything else, Cale deserves his shot at the finals purely for that. And if its all about power, we havent seen anything yet. Cale vs Rake just depends on where they fight, because their pretty much on the same level, just below that of gods in their own universes. I think the final battle, if a bunch of angry rake fans dont go out and sabotage voting for fights they dont care about otherwise, should be held on the shadowfell or another semiplanar dimension of shadow, purely because both parties would have the advantage in a field of similar element.

  • Ryan

    Cale has the power of a god at his finger tips. This is a one on one fight and not a place where Morgan can rely on her friends for back up. So in turn… No contest Cale DOMINATES.
    Nuff said.
    (I hope Mr. Kemp writes a matchup where Cale shows his strength and rips someones head in half like in Twilight Falling. 🙂 )

  • Gritty

    I am new to this place, but it seems that having the author of one book do the write up scenario is exreamly bias. Would it not be better to have a third party writer that has read both sets of books do an unbiased scenario. Or perhaps let both aurthors do a scenario. This would drastically reduce bias writing. This would prevent people from voting based solely on one persons bias depection of how the match will go, or people voting not because they like this mini story Kemp has created and not based on who they think would win.
    And sorry to the people that say “lets not make this a popularity contest” if your voting because you like the authors write up- your the ones making it a popularity contest!! If you are voting because you like the story Kemp is creating and want to read more you are the one creating a popularity contest-his story is popular so you vote for his character so you can read more of the story- thats called popularity contest. If you vote for who has the greater power, fighting ability and resource utilization, it would not a popularity contest.
    WIth that I will leave it up to those of you who have knowledge on both character to do the right thing and vote not based on one bias write-up and not because you want to hear the rest of Mr Kemp’s story but vote based the knowledge you have and who you think will win.

  • Granny

    Home field advantage and direct connection to layline. Need I say more. Rachel hands down.

  • Corwin

    Just to make things clear, this is Kemp’s writeup and he seems to be trying to give Rachel a decent shot so that people can justify making a choice either way. However, if you’re going for who would actually be stronger straight up, you can’t just assume that she will have \home field advantage and direct connection to a layline.\ This fight could just as easily have taken place in ANY situation, so Kemp HANDED her the homefield advantage.

    Furthermore, Cale is the chosen of his god (and depending on the timeframe, a Demigod in his own right), and he is yet to use his priest spells (and for those unfamiliar, his spells DO NOT depend on being in shadow). He could have dispelled her magic, called down a divine pillar of fire to burn her alive, or any number of things that would have ended the fight much faster. I think Kemp is avoiding this to make it more interesting, but it is something you should consider before voting.

    For all you Rachel fans, I’m sorry. She just doesn’t have a chance in a real fight.

  • Brandon A

    I do like the idea that Mr. Kemp is making this Cage Match a story line. However, though I do not know the character of Rake all that well, I must disagree with his choice of Antagonist. The clearer choice for me would be Mr. Wednesday as the antagonist, knowing his character. He would have planned this entire Cage Match knowing it would draw a crowd who would again see him as a god, thus returning his powers to him. And he would also have the match fields, where blood was shed in his games, to draw power from.

    However, amazing write up as always, and I look forward to, hopefully, seeing the next match again, hopefully, Kylar Stern. Would be the most amazing match-up, though very depressing no matter who loses that fight.

  • Elros

    Go on Erevis! Beat them all up to finish!

    Mr. Kemp, you always bring us great cage match writeups! Thank you!

  • K

    psssst…. y’all are missing something here. Rachel Morgan is a day-walking demon. It really would be a tough match.

    Mr. Kemp ~ awesome write up!!! I’m going to go run and check out your series!!
    -a die-hard Hollows fan

  • Go Rachel! Pfft. Sentimentality never gets in her way.

  • Rachel

    Great write-up, fantastic depth to the match and a really fun read. But there’s no way Rachel wouldn’t already be in a circle when facing an unknown opponent, so the whole sword-in-the-ribcage thing wouldn’t happen. Not to mention, even in this scenario where she does get skewered, aside from the whole “Rachel has friends Ivy/Jenks/Trent” thing (who have brought her back from the brink of death on many occasions), all she has to do is summon Al who would run a healing curse over her (or done it herself, presuming she’s learnt the curse already). Cale was close enough to touch at the end there, Rachel could easily have drawn a line through him and fried his brain too.
    Rachel’s not only sassy, she’s resourceful and creative too. She makes mistakes often but when the adrenaline’s pumping, there’s no stopping her.

  • Michael

    I voted for Erevis Cale on this one. 1, hes my favorite and im a fanboy, so its to be expected, 2, rachel seems to be not in my type of writing preference. and finaly, 3, her main power is magic. It states clearly in advantages ‘weaveshear, can reflect magic back upon the user’ and hes a shade, resistant to magic any time of day.

    either way, Kemp always writes good stuff, so its been fun going this far 🙂

  • Rory

    He got in a fist fight with his own god in an alley way. Cale has that spirit you can’t crush. No matter how bleak the outcome or who the opponent is; day-walking-demon, demi-god, Mask, he’ll make it out even if it leaves him a tattered mess.

  • David

    Sounds to me like Rachel-fans are throwing the term ‘day-walking demon’ around the way Zaphod fans use ‘hoopy frood’. I’ve never read either of these two before this tournament. As an objective observer, it seems to me that Rachel is hopelessly outclassed.

  • D.I. Waisanen

    If Erevis has anti-magic abilities, a sword that can reflect magic, and a large repertoire of his own potent spells in addition to his superhuman physical abilities in darkness, then he is the clear winner just on power. However, the level of cunning he’s displayed in this fight would be enough to win it for him even if Rachel was more powerful.

    I’d be happy with it if Cale went all the way to the end, because rather than just relying on power, or popularity, he’s also backed up by genuinely good writing. I wouldn’t want to interrupt this chain of write-ups and interesting stories by having him lose to Rachel now.

  • Guel

    I’d like to point out that the last time Cale fought a demon, and yes, it walked around in the day, he threw Weaveshear aside, put his thumbs into its brain and crushed its skull with his bare hands.

  • michelle

    Rachel is a day walking demon anyone who reads her series would know that and if Cale was a shadow creature then that would give Rachel an advantage because most of her demon curses could either contain him in a circle or cast him into the ever after. we also forget she has the ability to summon other demons such as a Al who is ancient and old. rachel has been away from the home court on many occasions and still managed to win her battle not to mention she could also summon trent to her with her ring and i do believe mr shadow would have little protection against wild ancient elven Magic… it was a great write up i enjoyed reading this writers perspective but i also agree that it could be very bias…id like to hear Kim’s ideas on how this fight would go… she would know her charger better than anyone… peace out

  • Justin Anstine

    Its hard for me to say what would happen as I have only read the Cale series. Cale runs around, slaying “day walking” demons, demi gods and enjoys puncing/stabbing his god in the face. At one point he becomes a god of sorts himself. His clerical abilities make him even more dangerous as he could have rebuked the demon all together, or any number of his spells could have been used. At this time I am struggling to think of more than a handful of characters in the whole Forgotten series that could take Cale on and actually kill him. I would be most interested to see a Dungeons & Dragons break down of both characters….. Anyone that has gamed and read bother series willing/able?
    All of you Rachel fans should go and pick up the Erevis Cale Triolgy, (There are a few books that procede this trilogy but its where I started and dont regret it) get a cup of cocoa and get ready for one of the best reads you will have in your life. Paul Kemp is an amazing writer. I seriously had goosebumps the whole time and very few writers have done that to me. For that, I thank you Mr. Kemp!

    P.S. I cannot wait for God Born…. That and R.A. Salvatores Dark Elf Release are to far away. Maybe I will go read about this Rachel Morgan character 🙂

  • Kristin

    I can’t say much about Erevis Cale, as I have not read the books. There seems to be a bit of that going on here because Rachel wouldn’t so much be participating in this even but trying to bring it down by either trapping/banishing her opponents or winning them over to her side to go after the ones who pitted them against each other. She does not do what is expected.

    As far as the comments about her abilities…she can fight, she has three types of magic to pull from, and has an attitude.

    She can handle this dark assassin.

    (watch out cage match organizers)

  • Ryan Haseman

    Aww you had to pick my 2 favorite characters from fantasy novels and have them kill each other. Both of these authors are excellent if you haven’t read one of them you really should pick the series up. A very nice write up by Mr. Kemp for the match though I don’t think Rachel would go down that easily.

  • Shizzlenitts

    Having read your Cage Match Paul and then having read all the comments , it really is a hard one to call. Except its not.
    Ive read both Erevis and Rachel’s books. U’ve put Rachel in the perfect scenario for her abilities to have a decent crack at Cale but you’ve stripped Cale of all his abilities.
    Cale would have done Intel gathering, CAST SPELLS!! , buffed up and so much more.
    I can understand an author not being bias towards his/her character so it seems fair to the readers but at the end of the day if the reader has followed both Cale and Rachel on thier journeys they will see that Cale truly is the stronger in a monumental way.
    I love the write up Paul . It was fantastic but your running Cale at 70% of his potential.
    Cale is hands down winner of this match and for those that have voted Rachel to win , you need to pick up a Paul S. Kemp book and not vote for your favourite character , but vote for the winner of a fight.

    Winner : Cale . and ive done the research.

  • db

    As if Rachel would just stand there and get stabbed!! Rachel is best at hand to hand combat, she tends to rely on it as her fail safe. Beyond that, if she is standing directly in a lay line there is no excuse for his little coins to be able to over power her spell. I’m sorry but this write up, while entertaining, is wrong.

  • TheSaintWithinTheSinner

    Hmmm…. It seems you’ve gained a reader, Mr. Kemp. No clue who Erevis Cale is, but I’ll be reading the trilogy ASAP. 🙂 Awesome write up. (However, if Cale makes it through this, I’m still voting for Kylar in the next round. Sorry, can’t help it; I’m a fangirl.) 😛

  • See

    You should really read Cale trilogy’s (there’s more than one) before voting for Kyler. You might just regret your vote at a later date.:)

  • Jennifer

    It was nice to see someone else’s point of view of a character I love, but that’s not how Rachel would take someone out. It would be a little clumsy but effective and not involve strangling someone with plants! If you really know Rachel then you know that she is not a demon to be trifled with! Go Rachel!

  • TheSaintWithinTheSinner

    I haven’t read either series, so I should probably stay out of it, but in the comments I’m noticing a theme – all the girls are for Rachael. Kinda makes me laugh. I’m a girl, and I’d have to go with Cale. Sounds like he’s badass. 😀

    In response to the comment responding to my earlier comment (wow, that made NO sense at all), I shall consider it, but only if you consider reading the Night Angel trilogy before voting for Cale, for /you/ might regret you vote at a later date. 😉 (Unless of course you’ve already read it.)

  • Asteron

    All of the Hollows fans aren’t giving Mr. Kemp the credit he deserves with these write-ups. Putting Rachel on a ley line is the only way to make the fight halfway fair. He is trying to make these entertaining, not a slaughterfest like he could. Consider that Cale hasn’t cast a single spell in 3 fights. Had he cast any defensive spells beforehand or used any offensive spells, this fights over. The cleric class is one of the most powerful in all of D&D AND he is the Chosen of his diety (he is better than the average cleric..)

    I’ve done my research on Rachel and while she would be formidable, Cale could do this a number of different ways…

  • Rartemass

    While these write ups are fine, I think the above makes Rachel seem like a stupid villain caught monologuing. She knew the shadowman was coming to kill her, why would she taunt him and let him regroup?
    She had him caught in a trap, she should have simply coup de graced him by driving a sword into his spine while the grass choked him (or shot him in the head- I don’t know the character or series so don’t know the setting). Even blasting him with other magic while prone and restrained would make sense.
    One last point, a sun directly above wouldn’t light the ground underneath his body. Cale could have tried to simply arch his back slightly and would find shadows beneath him.
    I still think Rachel would win this as the trap was well executed and she had plenty of time to take him out instead of taunting the man focused on her death.

  • ricochet173

    Honestly, Mr. Kemp is being incredibly generous in his write-up here. Erevis Cale is a ludicrously powerful character even by the standards of his fictional setting, which is filled with enormously powerful beings. Cale is highly resistant to offensive magic, has regenerative flesh, can teleport at will through shadows of any sort, is a well-trained assassin, has enhanced physical attributes due to his \condition\ (he has crushed a powerful demon’s skull with his bare hands), has access to incredibly powerful priestly spells (which his deity personally bolsters, seeing as Cale is his Chosen priest), and is in possession of a sword which absorbs and redirects magic at will (this sword has, at least once, protected Cale from a god’s spells).

    It’s not a matter of fanboydom (Is this a word? It certainly is now..) but of common sense. Rachel is just not up to snuff for this challenge. Is she powerful? Sure! However, Cale’s abilities are uniquely suited to giving her a whupping. Cale wins, easily.

  • Rachel

    Okay I’m just going to reiterate my last comment because I think if people who haven’t read either series read this write-up, it’s a little misleading. I mean it’s a really great read and I’ll definitely be checking out the Erevis Cale books after this, and (from the comments/description) Cale is probably the much-stronger opponent, but my issue is that none of Rachel’s writeups so far reflect her actual fighting style and do her spirit a bit of injustice. I’m sure that’s been the case for many other characters, too, but just to specify….Rachel uses defensive magic first, will resist a kill at every turn, will always look to contain and disable, and as someone mentioned above, always does the unexpected, sometimes just for shits and giggles. She’s impulsive, hard to predict, and also has a whopping amount of firepower…that she uses as a *last resort*.
    I’ve never seen her use magic like she does in this write up (except maybe the bright light one but I doubt she’d think to use that anyway), so I appreciate that the writer is trying to give her a fighting chance with the scenario, but even if a Cale/Rachel scenario played out exactly as above, what’s not to say Cale was attacking the glamour projection anyway?
    And if she’s standing in a ley line, she can just transfer over to the Ever After whenever she wants to escape him!
    As people have said, Cale’s probably not going full out either, but even if he was, Rachel wouldn’t have handled the situation in this way. She’s one determined itchy witch and she fights with her heart and soul…Rache’s used to being the underdog, so a fearsome shade wouldn’t deter her.
    As for people going on the ‘she’s a day-walking demon’ bandwagon…yeah she is, but that’s not what makes her great, or a fearsome opponent. In the last book she was stripped of nearly all her powers and still managed to come out on top.
    Ok I’ve said my piece, I’ll shut up now. Just wanted to explain, from a fan’s perspective, why Rachel really has a chance in these cage matches.

  • Tim

    Ok, I retract my earlier comment about not voting because it looked like it wasn’t an obvious enough win for Cale. The “Rachel’s a day-walking demon!” fans have reminded me that Rachel’s a demon. Cale has faced down an archdevil on his own plane of Hell multiple times, is a demigod in his own right, the Chosen of his god, Mask, and a powerful cleric as well as an assassin. Basically, you couldn’t pick a character better suited to slay a demon, whatever time it likes to walk. Thankyou, Rachel fans, for convincing me that your character doesn’t have a hope.

  • Asteron

    I think that it is safe to say that given a neutral setting and with both of them going all out, this fight would be long a complicated. However, as these write-ups must be brief, this is what we get…

    Anywho, I have already added the Hollows series to my list…

  • Shizzlenitts

    Amen ricochet173.
    Erevis all the way

  • Rachel of course would kick butt! She always has some little trick up her sleeve & of course her writer ROCKS! *grins* Plus being part demon part witch she has 2 different ways of defending herself! Not to mention werewolf friends,Vampire friends, fairy & elf friends to help kick butt!

  • samantha

    voted for rachel and ordered twilight falling. should be an interesting read.

  • Mase

    @Tracey “Lippy” Lipford

    I think that was mainly for dramatics. As other comments have posted Cale could have cast the Clerical spell Darkness and countered the light. Kemp also avoided having Rachel using a direct spell that Waveshear could have reflected back at her. In a one on one fight I really don’t see how Rachel could win, its kind of a stacked match.

  • See

    Twilight falling is a good start thats where his evolution starts from a normal human into a shade. That’s his first Trilogy . His second trilogy is The twilight wars starting w/ Shadowbred . This is the series were he’s at his peak. Now if you look at amazon the first 2 books of this series is a perfect 5 stars. The last being 4 1/2 stars. Cale is simply one of the best written series ever in the forgotten realms setting.

  • D.I. Waisanen

    One of my main reasons for voting for Cale is that he actually has a good chance against Kylar Stern. If Rachel Morgan fights K.S. it’s just going to be, “Kylar is immune to magic, he can’t be hurt by her!” However, Erevis vs. Kylar would be a very interesting match-up, with both combatants being able to counter magic and having quite a few abilities of their own.

  • AW

    As a Hollows-fan I need to say that it altogether is highly improbable for Rachel to be in such a fight at all, one of her greatest strengths being her love for life. In all the books (10 by now and, each volume about 500 -700 pages and never boring plus absolutely unpredictable^^) she never ever killed anyone and even if attacked by people using about everything to kill her she always finds a way to get everybody out alive. She has such a horror of becoming a murderer – she would never participate in something like that. More likely she would try to bond with her opponent to escape =) her other strength beeing the ability to understand others and turn enemies into friends. Anyway I dare say she would surely stand a good chance against Cale, being able to jump through ley lines, drag him in there, trap him or/ and call on her friends for help. And of course a wound like that wouldn’t kill her for she’s able to run a healing curse and curses won’t have to be said out loud, a thought would be enough. Liking both the characters I think it more probable that who ever would be the underdog would not end up dead but be able to escape. Looking forward to reading the Cale books now XD waiting for the next Kim Harrison.

  • Guel

    If we throw friends into the mix, the match gets even more uneven. Cale hesitated to kill her, whereas Riven would have thought nothing of it. She’d just be a number, dead in the dirt before she knew she was in danger.

  • Dan

    Is we are talking about friends, Erevis Cale has a small group of shadow walker monks to assist him, and are very loyal to the Left and Right hands of Mask. Cale also has Drasek Riven, another of Masks chosen, which is an assassin, and sort of cleric in his own way. Riven can also speak a demonic tongue that can harm those who listen to it. And also has allies within the Lathander clergy .

  • See

    and don’t forget his other friend MAG’s the son of the Arch-devi himself (demon king in hell).

  • Andrew Jaden

    I’m going with Cale. Why? Let’s take a look at his abilities.

    1. Regenerative flesh.
    2. Resistance to spells (not mentioned here, but yes, it’s in the novels)
    3. Weaveshear’s spell-reflecting abilities
    4. Shadowstepping
    5. Clerical spells
    6. Combat ability (as in being able to handle a blade)

    Morgan seems like a formidable character, but from what I’ve seen she’s only good in spellcasting, which is what Erevis is meant to counter. Not to mention that without her spells, Morgan is nothing. She may or may not be able to use hand-to-hand combat, but her reach is short, and let’s face it, unless she casts a spell, her hands will get chopped off at the first opportunity. One may say that she can cast demonic spells and be able to get past Weaveshear and his spell resistance (possible, since some spells do bypass Weaveshear as evidenced in Shadowbred when Cale was in Sakkors battling other shades), but even so, his regeneration will heal off any damage, and clerical spells can help him shrug off the worst damage.

    Also, Erevis wouldn’t have went for the heart — he’d have gone for the head. Instant kill. And he has killed females before (a female slaad named Elura) despite it being stated here that he has yet to kill one. Possibly Kemp wanted to prevent spoilers. Either way, I’m impressed at the amount of fans backing Cale and Morgan. Good stuff 🙂

  • good to know, see. I had never read any sort of paranormal/fantasy/sci fi/whatever books until my sister made me read harry potter. I read book 1, went to the store, bought books 2-7 and spent a week immersed in potterville. Had the worst headache of my life but I couldn’t stop reading. Since then I have decided to stop being close-minded about any genre and try new things. I put up the link for me in case anyone has any personal favorites I may never have heard about that they want to share. Some of what I pick up makes me want to jab ice picks into my brain to try to carve out the memory of the dreck I’ve just read, so I would appreciate any QUALITY recommendations.

  • Shizzlenitts

    Lol you guys forgot one major point. If we are indeed throwing friends into the mix. Do u really think the GOD mask would let his number one die. Yeah i dont think so.
    Cale is masks investment , no GOD (and i use caps cause Mask is a GOD), is going to allow an investment like Cale be killed.
    So no i dont think we should bring friends into the mix. i know cale would handle rachel quite easily without bringing any friends into it .
    So to conclude , after reading both authors Paul/Kims books Cale is hands down winner.

  • theAKpal

    First off, the Hollows series is one of my all-time favorites. Apart from Elminster novels, I stopped reading D&D novels years ago and know of Cale only through this cage match thing. However, I am intimately familiar with D&D (2nd ed). And, I can say with absolute certainty, that Cale would crush Rachel with little effort.

    As mentioned, Cale has high-level priestly abilities. Since Rachel is part demon, day-walking notwithstanding as most demons are day-walking in D&D (and, I must say, much stronger than Rachel themselves), Cale could banish her, simple and easy, match over. Alternatively, as mentioned, he could cast darkness, suddenly shadows, Cale wins easy. Next, dispel magic. There is nothing in Rachel’s repertoire that can handle dispel magic. Her circles, dispelled. Her glamours, dispelled. Her charms, dispelled. Her paintballs, dispelled. You get the picture. The point is, Cale wins easy. And, I’m not even going into the myriad other spells he could bring into play. There are hundred, dating back 30+ years in official errata.

    Now, let’s take apart Rachel fanboy/girl’s arguments. One, take Cale into Everafter: there are still shadows, he’d simply leave. Not to mention, he probably has a plane shift spell he could bring into play if dropped in the in-between. Run a ley line through him. Not entirely sure how to counter this one, but I have a few ideas: he’s a priest and chosen of a god, by profession, he runs the power of a deity through his mind. A ley line is no match for this. Alternatively, many characters in Kim’s books have ley lines involuntarily run through them, Rachel included, and she’s still alive, so, no, not a guaranteed kill. Also, in D&D, there are mind-protecting spells. He could probably reverse the flow and run the line through her just as easily.

    The plain truth is that there are few characters in any genre that could truly withstand the might of a high-level priest or wizard from the D&D world. There’s a reason for this, it’s really hard to write a compelling story where the protagonist can literally do just about anything they want. It makes setting up intrigue and suspense quite difficult. The reason it works in the game is because, frankly, powergaming rules!

    I read tons of high/urban fantasy involving magic and inevitably compare it to that in D&D. D&D magic is done differently, and in many ways is way more powerful, and especially more flashy. You simply cannot compare Hollows magic with D&D magic, and until you’ve reviewed D&D manuals, you have no idea how powerful this stuff can be.

    TL;DR The Hollows is definitely one of my favorites, and I don’t know who Erevis Cale is. But, as a rational being, and having played insane amounts of D&D, there is no way Rachel could win.

  • Rachelstopitgirls

    I was referred here from some friends and was asked to vote for Rachel. Upon reading the story though I voted for Cale since I want to see how this all plays out. Unfortunaly Cale won’t win as my friends have found out a way to keep re-voting. you know who you are. So to make it fair I’ll tell everyone here what they are doing. They are re-voting by simply clearing history then just stat private browsing vote…. stop private browsing/start private browsing re-vote rinse and repeat.

  • Dan

    Holy shit I was wondering how Rachel got over 400 vote within the last hour. wow shame on you girls .

  • Dnton

    Rachel fans, isn’t duplicate voting rather contemptible? Disappointing to see fans resort to cheating and being sore losers in general.

  • Jaly

    Damn its a shame they have to resort to cheating.

  • Dnton

    Is there any way to notify the staff who are conducting/overseeing this cage match. This cheating kinda disgusts me actually.

  • Shizzlenitts

    Hopefully the organisers can figure this out. its a bit unfair that Cale is winning the whole way and then this happens.
    For the cheaters……thanks for taking out the spirit of competition. shame on u

  • See

    I can confirm this now. all you have to do is bookmark page then start private browsing pull up bookmark vote …. stop private browsing/start private browsing pull up bookmark vote… rinse and repeat. I’m not goona do it though who give a shit its only a competition I have better thing to do with my time. go ahead hens cheat all ya want. sit there in front of your computer and waste your day away…

  • mal

    Nice to know how Rachel advanced passed 1st round………………………..

  • Dnton

    More to do with fangirlism than being a “day-walking” demon and any such mumbo jumbo huh heh

  • Dnton

    More to do with fangirlism than being a \day-walking\ demon and any such mumbo jumbo huh heh

  • Andrew Jaden

    It’s quite funny, actually. Now that Suvudu’s prevented the cheats from re-voting (based on the amount of votes) anyone who reads this and isn’t a Rachel fangirl will only vote for Cale. Nice try cheats, but you only succeeded in turning everyone against your ‘heroine’.

  • Kael

    Suvude, the Rachel votes are jumping at a phenomenal rate again. Please do something about the cheating, it goes against the spirit and integrity of this competition.

  • Trev

    Cheat your asses off b*tches, only way you are going to win

  • Sumo

    wow 40+ votes in a span of 2 mins….get serious

  • Asteron

    This is ridiculous. The fun of this competition has been ruined by cheaters…

  • Corwin

    If the cheating problem is fixed, how is the Rachel side getting about a vote every 3 seconds? I’m sorry, but at this point I don’t believe there are enough new voters around to have that fast of a rate for EITHER side. This is just stupid at this point. I hope you people really enjoy having ruined a cool concept of FAIRLY having a fun competition…Just pathetic!

  • Kael


    To be fair to the Erevis Cale fans, their vote tallies have hardly skyrocketed as much as the Rachel ones. When I checked this site 8 hrs back, Erevis was leading by a 400-500 vote gap, now both vote tallies have gone up in the hundreds, or in Rachel’s case, it’s prob hit a thousand already

  • Asteron

    I was clicking the view results and return to poll buttons to watch how quickly Morgan’s votes went up and I was blocked for “voting” too many times!

    I normally enjoy this every year, but this whole situation has left a sour taste in my mouth. I hope Suvudu does something to correct this. I may just take the Hollows series off of my reading list.

  • Asteron

    If you go to Kim’s Facebook page, you can see where her fans have been encouraging each other to vote multiple times.

    Suvudu, I hope you will do something about this. Not saying that there haven’t been any Cale fans haven’t tried the trick, but they haven’t been nearly as rabid about it as Rachel’s fans…

  • see

    thought I check back here after my raid from wow. just to let everyone know it still works. the problem is not fixed yet. Andrew Jaden has not clue they have not fixed this problem read my above post on how to revote. Calling it a night will check back tomorrow to see how high the hens can get the votes up too

  • Corwin

    Suvudu folks, you need to set up a voting system using the same thing as your comment system. You would have to supply an email (even if the site doesn’t do anything with it) before voting. Its not hard at all, and people don’t have to take much time at all (no creating an account or anything), but at the same time you could cut WAAAAAAAAAAY down on this absurd cheating.

  • D.I. Waisanen

    All right, this has really gotten out of hand. This match needs to be STOPPED and a re-vote conducted. If Rachel Morgan got through to the next round on this, despite how obviously her fans are cheating, I will be absolutely horrified.

    There was a great write-up for Erevis Cale, and the evidence exposed in the comments and information have made it clear that he is the winner. Yet, sore-losers are still trying to push Rachel to win.

    I agree with the suggestion to have voters supply emails. This has just gotten way out of hand.

  • chosen

    suvudu won’t stop the cheating, they never do, they’ll just act like its not happening like they always do. Cheating has become an institution in the cage matches, it happens every year, Rachel’s fans are just more blatant then the rest.

  • Warby

    WOW, this is the first time I’ve seen the cage matches. And I think its cool and fun, and you know in ever game there will be people cheating so don’t get all bent out of shape about it just have fun.

    Plus- Because I’ve been reading all of the cage matches i have found so many books that i would want to buy and read

  • Corwin

    Warby –

    I’m sorry, but there’s no “game” to it if the cheating gets this out of hand. Absolutely, we should expect some people to not be good sports and cheat, but this is absurd. I don’t know what the real figures would look like, but I’ll bet that well over 50% of the votes are a result of cheating.

    To put is simply, there is little “fun” in this when those who want to participate have ZERO chance of influencing it beyond lowering themselves to cheating as well.

    Furthermore, Paul Kemp is (from what I’ve seen) one of if not the only author of his character contributing to the write-ups. Say what you want about his portrayal of things, it is interesting and, to me, one of the more fun parts of this. And while his fans are excited to read more of these, he has come out and asked his fans NOT to participate in cheating, even if it means we lose and never get to see his plotline through to conclusion.

    Meanwhile, Kim Harrison participated in the conversation that apparently prompted the cheating to get out of hand for her fans. Its one thing to expect some cheating, but for the author to CLEARLY promote cheating…Well, I find that very offensive. Say what you will, but she should be above that.

    The only thing I will agree with you on is that this is a good forum for people to find interesting new books to read. But since I feel that my input has ZERO chance to matter (since I personally won’t stoop to voting 100 times in 20 minutes) then I see little reason to pay attention a game of who’s better at cheating. This was a cool concept, but has utterly failed at this point

  • Ken

    Looking at the numbers skyrocket on both sides, it looks like this exploit is being used on both sides. What I find amazing is how close the numbers are tracking. It looks like both sides have some pretty die hard fans.

  • Warby

    Crowin –

    Yeah your right about how this has gotten out of hand. Like come on look at the match between Julia Wicker & Kylar Stren there Total Vote is-2,414 and Cale & Morgan there Total Vote is -8,132. You can easily tell theres been cheating involved. But it’s kind of funny ( you may not think so but to me it is ) that some people are more than willing to spend hours and hours to vote on something that will not matter at the end of the day.

    The Game has gone to
    1) ” Who do you think is a better fighter”
    2) ” What fan group can cheat more”
    3) ” What group of people don’t have a life”

  • Chris (And not the same as the one above me)

    @ Warby
    And so true, that is a serious hole — no, a gaping maw — in the polling software and one that ruins it for the vast majority.

  • Dnton


    Yeah I went to check the Kim Harrison FB page, can’t believe she is so completely dishonest that she prompts her fans to vote more than once. Disgust roils about in my mouth, ptah! Unbelievable!

    Oh well be content (discontent I hope) with your dishonest win, Rachel fans.

  • When I was a teenager, I had a heated, prolonged discussion with a fellow geek on the school bus about whether the adamantium in Wolverine’s skeleton was stronger than adamantine, a “super metal” in Dungeons and Dragons. I wince (with an embarrassed smile) when I think about that now, because discussions like that should never be heated and prolonged and can only avoid ridiculousness (if that’s even possible) by engaging in the conversation in a spirit of silly fun.

    I think the CageMatch should be regarded in that same spirit (that is, that of some silly fun). There are no actual stakes here. Irrespective of the outcome (or the write up), nothing happens to Rachel or Cale because they are, you know, fictional characters. No judgment about a character should be inferred from the outcome of the match. Likewise, there are no stakes for the authors involved. Irrespective of the outcome, Ms. Harrison will remain a wildly popular blockbuster author, and I will remain merely a strong mid-list author.

    The idea here is to engage in a little silly fun, maybe get to know writers and/or characters you didn’t know previously, scratch the X v. Y itch that many genre fans have, and otherwise have a smile over the whole thing. It’d be great if we all engaged with it in that spirit. 🙂


  • Jen

    Honestly, is this something to get this angry over? The Kim Harrison fans are not cheating because we CAN NOT vote twice. I have heard of people trying to do it and they can’t. If anything, Kim promoting the match on her website has increased the visibility of this site. Which I would think is a good thing. I would have never come to this page if she had not recommended it. I love books and I love science fiction and fantasy. Let’s not all start rolling around in the mud and pulling hair.

  • Ken

    @Paul – I agree totally. I have never read your series before, but I found your write up interesting and your books have definitely gone on my reading list.

    @others – Frankly, given that people are willing to spend hours on end exploiting the system to re-vote, just goes to show how much they care about the characters they author’s have created.

    At this point, I do not believe there is any moral high ground that can be claimed as votes in both camps continue to skyrocket (at this point Cale is ahead by 200 votes). So, please, let’s stop the name calling and finger pointing.

  • Rachelfan

    My main problem with the justifications of all of the Cale fans is this-why is it that his world’s rules are the ones imposed? If Rachel pulls him into the Ever After, which does not exist in his world, why would he be able to just jump out when no one can? I think that when the characters are put together you can’t just pick the character that you want to win to keep all of their abilities. There are things Rachel would lose, too.

  • KWooden

    I always liked the rec.arts.comics.discussion flame wars/threadsover who would win in a fight between…. Jesus or Spiderman

    from what Cale’s fans have said here in posts I think Cale could give the Lord a good trouncing. 🙂

    As Paul has said, “Engage in a little silly fun”

    If you are a Rachel fan then create and post here a fictional way that Rachel could beat Cale. If you are a Cale fan than turn it around and tell how you see him beating her. The more far out there and ridiculous the circumstance and situation you have to create to achieve that the better. Then we can all laugh at it and ourselves for taking this so seriously.


    The only thing I didn’t like about the story above was that I thought, having given Rachel the advantage of this super spell that pretty much eliminated all shadows, the big turning point in the battle is that the super daylight spell can’t adjust or compensate for the addition of a few coins. Understand the spell must have already been dealing with literally millions of objects in this space/battleground, every blade of grass, pebble, or branch waving in the breeze that would normally have a shadow for Cale to work with, didn’t. It just seemed a bit “Whoops maybe I gave her to much there, I’m gonna take some back” type moment to me. YMMV

  • RSams

    Okay for those of you that insist that Rachel can’t win so many vote let me point on thing out. Kim Harrison’s Facebook page has over 63,000 like, which means 63,000 fans. So unless the number of vote surpasses this number it just means that The Hollows series has tens of thousands of devoted fans.

  • Rachel

    Wowser! People got sour. How ugly. Suvudu probably doesn’t care about the cheating thing because, oh, I dunno, this shit doesn’t actually matter? It’s like Paul said…they’ll be fine in the end, they are just fictional characters after all.
    People are taking this waaaay too seriously.

  • Dnton


    The Ever-after is a plane. Cale can use a spell to shift out of there. It’s called “plane shift” and he has access to it. I agree with the uber daylight spell though. A handful of coins could not have done it. However, a deeper darkness spell, which is easily cast by Cale, would have. The coins required me to suspend my disbelief for a while


    It was the rate in which the votes flew, like 20+ votes in a mere 10 seconds, or 800 votes in less than an hour. And by your logic, if all RachelMorgan fans were so dedicated then this and every other cagematch should have been a landslide of epic proportions. Every vote should have at least 5000 votes so far. Cos that’s less 10% of the fans she has so it wouldn;t be too difficult since it is promoted on her FB page. And quite a few people on the fb page admitted to multiple voting. It isn’t conjecture here.

  • interwebs drama! lol i will say that it would be stupid to not try someone’s book because of this cage match. the hollows are a fun read. i have ordered the first cale book and it is next on my list to read. I have high hopes for it due to the write up the author posted here. I never would have heard of him otherwise. i will keep checking the matches just to see what other authors i might find interesting, particularly since i am new to sci-fi. and it just occurred to me that if i am a “hen”, it stands to reason that the dudes are “cocks” 😉

  • CamperWen

    The number of time the characters have overtaken each other is giving me a heart attack. For Cale, people.

  • so guys can call girls “hens” but girls can’t call guys the other word for “roosters” that rhymes with “clocks”? seems like a double standard to me… lol 🙂

  • Asteron


    This was also posted on the D&D Facebook page, which has 363,000 fans. By your logix, Cale should have way more votes… Alas, not all fans pay that much attention to these things.

    You’re right, it doesn’t matter. However, how you treat the little things says a lot about your character.

  • CamperWen

    The number of times the characters have overtaken each other is giving me a heart attack.

    I’d really like Cale to win of course. Because the dude is Jesus, man (apologies in advance to devout sticklers). I don’t want to spoil you guys, but the final events in the Twilight War Trilogy has a lot of Biblical parallels and works very well for a character-driven story such as Mr. Kemp’s. Win or lose, Cale is my hero. For Cale.

  • TheRedWriter

    I’ve got to say, after seeing all the cheating going on, this doesn’t feel so much like a contest as a hostile take over. I’ve never read the Kim Harrison books, but her fans don’t do her much justice from their behavior. This whole event has left a bad taste in my mouth.

  • alicia

    seriously guys???? You are such shallow finger pointers. Rachel Morgan fangirls are just sitting and cheating…. really???? So how did Cale fans go from a mere 900 votes on their last match to over 4000 this round?? id have to guess it was from….oh i dont know… CHEATING. both sides have cheaters, its fair to say. So why dont we all stopbeing shallow self obsessed hens and cocks and merely accept this for what it is, FUN. Quit ruining it for the people who are here for fun. Quit pointing fingers so readers will think one side is the bad side and vote against it. Lets face facts, whether Cale or Morgan win this round, they arent going any further, have you seen Kylars landslide wins???

  • Andrew Jaden

    Faerunians for a shadowy future! Elect the dark man with a dark sword! Vote Cale 2012!

    Alicia: I agree that there are cheaters on both sides, but if you notice the cheating for Cale only begun this round. As for Cale’s, his voting has been rather consistent (Tannen actually came close to beating him in the last round), while people have been voicing their doubts over the speed of votes for Rachel Morgan. And when Kim Harrison herself is indirectly condoning it, I don’t see how we Cale fans can respect the Morgan ones.

  • dpomerico

    Hello everyone:

    I’m sure if you want to cheat to vote, you could, but we figured the amount of effort required to to so would have mitigated the desire. As wonderful as it is that you are passionate about these fans, it seems a little overboard to continuously vote over and over again for something that is simply meant to be fun!

    Now, obviously we can’t monitor what you do in your own life, but Cage Match is supposed to be a chance for everyone to talk about their favorite characters and books, and hopefully discover some new characters and books. We might get some of our “facts” messed up from time to time, but again–it’s all in good fun, and that gives you a chance to point out how wrong we are!

    It might seem naive to make a request for people to use the honor system, but seriously consider what it is you might be cheating at: a hypothetical match-up between science fiction and fantasy characters!

    The authors have been gracious enough to support these matches by letting us play with their characters, and yet now we’re concerned by all the negativity it’s generating.

    Please–a little civility goes a long way. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them wrong, and doesn’t give anyone the right to lash out at each other.

    Besides: there’s plenty of anger to direct at us here at Suvudu!


  • Corwin

    I just want to set the record straight first off. I was wrong in my previous post (I saw a comment on Kim Harrison’s facebook that, in its context, appeared that she was encouraging cheating). It would seem that if I had read the very first comment of the conversation, I would have realized that she was NOT in favor of her fans doing it. So, sorry to you Rachel fans for getting that wrong before.

    HOWEVER, that conversation did include discussion of how to cheat, and proud declarations such as “I’ve been voting for 2 hrs”. So yes, ALICIA, Rachel Morgan fans discussed their activities of sitting there and cheating OPENLY.

    BUT, as a Cale fan, I think we ALL need to bring it down a notch here. We may have been able to notice the cheating more on Rachel’s side (800 vote jumps in an hour are rather noticable), but do you folks seriously think we caught up to that in a legit way? We have plently of cheaters on our side too. Both sides are at fault here, and no matter who wins it won’t be an earned victory. I just encourage EVERYONE to take the friendly spirit of the competition more seriously next time.

  • Alixx

    Ok, so Rachel Morgan has had approximately 1500 per round prior to this match… Cale has had approximately 900….yet their both over 4000? Both sides are clearly cheating, and cheating hard. However, I must point out Kim Harrison is a worldwide best seller, and has a much larger fan base. I more than believe 1500 votes. It appears Cale fans are the greater cheats this round. I also firmly believe that this round would have been close, but would have gone to the Hollows.

  • See

    I listening to the audio book of kylar stern in the night angel’s triliogy right now because of this website. Don’t let all of the negativity get you guys discourage. It is helping readers find alot of new books. Seems alot of kylar fans here so since kylar seems he’ll make it to the next round I wanted to give an honest vote next round.

  • Dan

    You know what would be cool. If you posed a question from each book before your vote counted. That not only encourages people to read the other book but also the vote would be an honest assessment as they’ve read both book. As it is now the book w/ the most fan base or non-lazy fan base will usually win.
    Also After seeing Revan beat Tomas. I grabbed Revan to see who is this Jedi that can beat Tomas.
    Although he is strong in the force turns out he wasn’t much compared to Tomas.. but tomas still lost. oh well this is all just for shitz and giggles.

  • rusty shackleford

    I’m really pulling for a Cale victory, just for the sake of an interesting next round. Cale vs. Kylar is about as even a fight as we’ll ever get in Cage Match. Kylar vs. Rachel would be somewhere in between a slaughter and a joke.

  • Rachel

    Get ready boys the rachel morgan assault has began. I tried to talk my friends out of it . but they are not listening. Hopefully posting this will get them to stop

  • See

    wow 100 vote in the last 10 min. Really rachel fans can you make it more obvious.

  • see

    been refreshing browser and it seems like stop. I’d bet though the last 2 hours they will try to sneak it end near the end. 🙂 fun drama

  • Dan

    This is just to funny there are definitely Cale fans monitoring the voting…….Rachel vote spike over 100 within 10 min Cale fans response “You aint getting away with that again and cale votes spike to match it. just great fun

  • HonestyFan

    I understand now. It was very, very sneaky of You (Who ever you are – I don’t know your name). You simply set-up entire voting by rounding anti-Morgan league.
    It shoud be clear from teh beginnig.
    First you make few hundreads false votes, then drop few comments about your “cheatig friends”. And here you are, seemingly anti-cheating, but making other people cheat. You even make smoe cooments on Kim’s pages – building anti-Morgan outrage among Erevis’s fan base.
    Is this some kind sociological experimet or what ??
    How to make other people do what i want

  • Jennifer

    All kidding aside, what book do I start with if I want to read more about Cale?


  • Rachel

    wow you give me too much credit. I am a fan of neither author but when my friend ask me to come and vote for Rachel. like a said I decided to vote for Cale just to see how the story plays out. The fact that my friends are immature and don’t like to lose has nothing to do w/ me. 800 votes and hour or over 100 in 10min is impossible for one person to do. I neither have the time or patience to do that since i’m working…Also I like pissing my friend off since I’m always picking up the tabs. 🙂

  • Rysan

    @Andrew Jaden

    I love this ” Faerunians for a shadowy future! Elect the dark man with a dark sword! Vote Cale 2012!”


    Kim Harrison can be a worldwide best seller but are there more Kim fans than lets say Dungeons and Dragons/ Forgotten Realms fans? I would vote for any D&D character over a character I didn’t know, why because I am loyal to the D&D worlds/characters.

  • D.I. Waisanen

    Maybe this match won’t need to be redone. If Cale wins, even if it was only through cheating being used to counter cheating, then I’ll be content. A pity it had to collapse into all of this, though. . .

  • Alyssa

    If you want to read about Cale, start with Shadow’s Witness. That’s the first full book with him in it. That is followed by the Erevis Cale trilogy, which you can buy as an omnibus or individually (first book in the trilogy is called Twilight Falling)


  • see

    @ Jennifer

    Twilight Falling would be a good start. That’s the first book in the twilight saga after those 3 books then
    Shadowbred The Twilight War saga (the better series in my opinion but barely since every book in these series is gold…

  • see

    oh yeah been so long shadows witness when we first finds out about his secret identity.

  • Archon

    looks like this one’s pretty much conceded… you guys want to watch a half hour of legendary cheating, go to the Zaphod match… both sides seem poised for a half-hour sprint cheat-a-thon to the end…

  • confused

    wow really… cale fans are all ‘theyre cheating’ yet if that were the case they would be unable to keep up with the morgan votes… hmmm it sounds like everyone is cheating. id say scrap this match disqualify both and make kylar the automatic winner of the next round, lets face it both cale fans and morgan fans are just going to continue to cheat.

  • Shadowlady

    @Jennifer: As mentioned above, I’d definitely start with “Shadow’s Witness”, then “The Erevis Cale Trilogy” (that begins with “Twlight Falling”), and fallowing that with “The Twilight War Trilogy” (that begins with “Shadowbred”). Of them all, the Twilight War are my favorite of the books Paul’s written in the series–and despite my being old, and an avid reader, also one of my two favorite book series–but I highly recommend reading all of the books in order from the start. There’s a lot of extremely deep, complex character development that I feel would be missed if you didn’t go in order. 🙂

    As for this whole: “Oh muh gawd, Rachel has more fans, obviously you Cale fans are cheating hard core!”. Yes, I’m certain that individuals on both sides are being dishonest. Yes, I think it’s ridiculous and extremely childish. I’m really disappointed in both sets of fans–but so it goes. I do need to defend Cale (and my community) though, in that while I’m certain Rachel has a legion of crazy fans what with her books being “mainstream” or what-have-you, Cale belongs to the “Forgotten Realms” of “Dungeons and Dragons”, and THOSE crazy fans have been around longer than most of us have been alive. They also tend to support their own as much as possible, because we love to see the expanse of the Forgotten Realms get the attention it deserves as a whole. So please, kill the whole “our books are more popular so we should obviously have more votes”, thing, because of everything that’s been said in this thread, that makes me shake my head the most. We D&D nerds (and I use that term affectionately) have been going out of our way to make sure that the characters we love get the support they deserve–even if they’re not mainstream.

    Miniature-rant aside, I WOULD like to read this “Hollows” series. Some of Rachel’s fans have given me the impression that Rachel is some Mary Sue from a pre-teen’s terribly written fanfiction (though I’m sure Cale might seem Gary Stu to the other side–gods know). I would really like to read these books and see for myself the interesting character that I’m sure Rachel is. To be honest, I love the kind of book that Rachel’s from, so I’m looking forward to learning more about who she is as a person, and not through the negative impression I’ve gotten here.

    Cheers, guys. And no matter who the winner is. <3

  • Archie

    Cale been in the lead for most the cage match. What’s happening is after the absurd 800 votes in an hour by Rachel fans when Cale was up. They been monitoring and counterbalancing whenever Rachel votes spike like 100 in 10 min.

  • Jlingo

    Yes! Cale for the win! I hope Mr. Kemp will do the next write-up. They are the best in the Cage Fight’s history.

  • HonestyFan

    @Archie – They been simply keeping distance about 200-250 votes, regardles the voting status for Rachel, I was watching closlely for the last 2 hours, I think it was one person show – whoever created this entire “cheating” situation.

  • Shizzlenitts

    Congratulations Cale and Mr Kemp. Im super happy about the outcome and i lookforward to reading Round 4.

  • Tim

    YES! Now I get to see a Cale vs Kylar writeup. Ever since I saw the lists for this years cage match I’ve been hoping for this, didn’t think it would actually happen though. Should be the most interesting and entertaining fight of the tournament.

  • Deep thought

    Cale has been vindicated. No way would rachael vampire girl ever be able to defeat the Chosen of Mask

  • seriously

    So clearly there was cheating on both sides. There’s no other reasonable explanation as to why both sides have over 5000 votes. One other thing is also clear, that there has been a lot of Cale fans using name calling, author bashing, and finger pointed towards the Rachel fans. It was just plain disrespectful to bash Kim Harrison, especially when the original poster admitted to not having his facts straight. Also judging all of Kim’s fans based on the actions of a few is just plain childish. Lots of people seem to be saying that because of all the bad things things the Rachel fans have been doing they don’t want to pick up the books. However all I’ve seen (and I’ve read basically every, if not all the post) the Rachel fans doing is cheating to the same extent or slightly less (as Rachel did lose this battle) than the Cale fans, while not resorting to vicious name calling and finger pointing. So really who is the worst fans? Honestly at the beginning of this match I was interested in reading about Cale but as of now I have absolutely no interest if it is going to turn me into the equivalent of a 8th grade bully and I wont be referring it to anyone I know or who comes into the bookstore I work at. I agree with the one poster that suggests that both characters should have been disqualified as that is really the only fair result for a match like this.

  • Kansa


    That is kind of hypocritical, you say that Cale fan’s not wanting to pick up the Rachel books because of this is wrong yet you are doing the exact thing to the Cale books. You are also saying that its wrong to judge all of Kim’s fans just because of the actions of a few but you are doing the exact same thing to fans of the Cale books.

  • Seriously


    I will agree with it being hypocritical, but the point I was trying to make was that there is more reason to be judgmental of both the Cale fans and the books because of their actions. While the cheating on the side of the Rachel fans is bad and by no means should they have done it, the Cale fans acted very childish which makes me believe that the book will appeal more to children who enjoy name calling and cyber bullying. I understand that most people will point out that cheating is childish as well but as BOTH sides participated in cheating I will look at how the fans treated each other, and the Cale fans in general seemed to be more childish with calling Rachel fans hens, bitches, etc. (I understand there is most likely a majority of Cale fans that are very respectful who just saw no need to comment on the cagematch, however it is always a small group of people who will cause stereo types for the rest, such as how the few Rachel fans cheating made it so ALL Rachel fans are cheaters)I believe there was no need for such name calling, especially as it was triggered about a fictional match about fictional characters. So while I don’t approve of the actions of the Rachel fans who cheated, I personally have to come down harder on the fans who thought it was appropriate to participate it what comes down to cyber bullying. Maybe if I heard enough Cale fans trying to apologize for, or speaking out against their fellow fans actions I would be interested in picking it up. As it stands right now, I doubt I will pick it up anytime soon since there was lots of other series in this years Cagematches that sounded really great, a few of which I have purchased already.

  • Eltar

    This past week showed the worst of what any fan base is capable of and actively drove away people from the polls. Whether we supported Rachel or Cale, Rake or Bast, Zaphod or Saphira, it didn’t matter. Things got ugly this week. So please, let’s bury the hatchets and move on. These are all great characters written by fantastic and talented authors. And while we cannot change what happened this week, we can control what we do this coming week. So ignore the few people who write the inflammatory comments and concentrate on the people who want to have honest to goodness discussions on the characters. This tournament is supposed to get people interested in reading the novels that the characters are from.

    As fans, we should encourage other people out there to join us in supporting the characters whom we love and the series that they represent. And the more people that read the series, the more likely we are to get better write ups for future novels. 🙂

  • Eltar

    Matchups* not novels lol.

  • theAKpal

    I said it in my first post and I’ll say it again: the Hollows books are really good. I highly recommend giving them a read. Also, I’m male and have played a crap-ton of D&D in my life.

    A couple points about the Hollows series. Rachel is not a vampire, she happens to live in a reality where vampires exist (and are open about it). And, she interacts with them, one being a main supporting character. Kim does not write pre-teeny stuff. Her books are very mature and well written. As to the Rachel character herself, she can be very annoying, in that you’ll want to figuratively smack her upside the head fairly regularly for some of the decisions she makes. Nonetheless, she’s still a fun character.

    As mentioned, they are very mature. i.e., if you read these books, you’re going to have to sit thru pages of sexual interaction in all but the most recent 1 or 2 books. And, sometimes it feels as if it is randomly thrown in to satisfy the prime demographic: women. It is Urban Fantasy after all.

  • Shizzlenitts

    I understand where u are coming from in your comments , but ask yourself this , where did all the cheating,namecalling, slander come from……..Passion. Passionate fans , taken too far i will admit but passion none the less.
    Denying yourself the books of Cale or Rachel on the basis that the voting turned a bit sour isnt the answer , it should be the opposite.
    It should intrigue you as to how these 2 fantastic authors inspire such passionate fans.
    Ive read both authors books and i absolutely love them. I’ll admit im a huge Kemp fan.
    But denying youself a fantastic read isnt the answer………………..
    See what all the fuss is about.
    Just something to consider.

  • Michael Jordan


    Also, for those interested in Cale novels, you can read a few short stories on the start of him on Paul S. Kemp’s website. He has a bunch of horror stuff, too, if you have an e-reader and are into the short story thriller stuff. Ive begun to read into Rachel’s books, myself, as now that I know it exists, i must learn the mythos driving the universe behind the characters

    I enjoyed the fan intermingling, even if a few die-hards kinda sucked the fun out at the end. Lets see how far D&D can go before getting knocked out, eh? Looking forward to the future write-ups!

    P.S: You look very nice today!