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Cage Match 2012: Championship: Moiraine Damodred versus Kylar Stern

 

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The Contestants

Moiraine Damodred
Aes Sedai of The Blue Ajah
Age: 44
Race: Human (Aes Sedai)
Weapons / Artifacts: The One Power – Sai Dar; Angreal to boost her power
Special
Attack:
BALEFIRE

Kylar Stern
Azoth
Age: 20s
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Knives; throwing spikes; sword…pretty much any weapon
Special
Attack:
Black ka’kari

The Breakdown

Advantages

  • Strong in the One Power—a veritable demigod amongst men
  • Battle-tested veteran
  • A woman (and therefore underestimated, because let’s face it: SF/F women often get a bum rap)
Advantages

  • Powerful Talent (magic)
  • Skilled assassin
  • Has endured much in the way of pain and heartbreak
Disadvantages

  • Obsessive about her life’s mission, to the point that she’s willing to risk unraveling the fabric of space-time to achieve it.
Disadvantages

  • Somewhere, deep down, he’s got a bit of a conscience
Kills

  • Tarzan
    Del Rey editor Frank is crying right now
  • The Dagda Mor
    One Power trumps the Staff of Power
  • Jardir
    He lost to the very Core of his being
  • Kelsier
    She tested his mettle (metal) and he was found wanting
  • Anomander Rake
    When you bury a Rake, you still need a shovel
Kills


How we think the fight will go

 

We’re still looking for a fan write-up (see this post for more details, but note you can start putting your write-ups below), but in the meantime, we’re happy to give you one more from Abyss


With a note of thanks to all of you who have posted comments re my other write ups, and my deepest apologies and respect again to Brandon Sanderson and the later Robert Jordan, and now to Brent Weeks…


An assassin, by nature and practice, does not seek out a face to face and blade to blade fight. It’s antithetical to the whole ‘assassination’ thing. Kill. Don’t be killed. Kill fast and with finality. Don’t leave anything to chance. Don’t even take chances. Plan for everything, then back-up plan, and then plan some more for when those plans go ass-up.

A wet-boy is an assassin writ large. Not so much a killer as an artist in the act of killing. Magic, weapons, magic weapons, brains, every piece of their body, is committed to the art of murder, the elimination of the target… or rather, the deader. As in you can’t get much deader than being targeted by a wet-boy.

It’s why they’re the best there is at what they do.

And even among wet-boys, Durzo Blint was one of the best. And he trained Kylar Stern.

Kylar has had other names, but Kylar will do. Kylar is so good at murder, he has, in many respects, surpassed Durzo. There are god-like beings who could attest to this, except that they’re dead.

Point being, Kylar is extremely good at killing. He may not like it, but he is so very very good at it. Fucking brilliant in fact. And oddly enough, Kylar has saved his world with his skills.

+++

Aes Sedai, by nature and considerable effort, cultivate an air of power and focus that conveys, when a Sister turns her ageless face to a viewer, a sense that they know more, know better, know EVERYTHING, and the target of that gaze is best off doing exactly what the Aes Sedai tells them to do.

Practice and attitude have a great deal to do with this. So does the One Power. Theirs is the female half of the Power, and with it, they wield Air, Fire, Earth, Water and Spirit in many ways.

It’s not a good idea to anger an Aes Sedai. They take Oaths that prevent them from doing some of the nastier things the One Power permits, but really, that just motivates them to get creative.

As an Aes Sedai of the Blue Ajah, Moiraine Damodred concerns herself with righteous causes. Her particular cause happens to be saving the world. This focus led her to find the Dragon Reborn. And the Dragon may indeed yet save their world, but fair to say, without Moiraine’s efforts, he would likely never have had a chance to try.

Moiraine is extremely strong in the One Power. There are other channelers, some Aes Sedai, some not, who are stronger than her, but not many. And even among those, most haven’t figured out Balefire, a particularly nasty weave that erases its target from existence. It’s as bad as it sounds. At least one particularly powerful servant of the Dark One has found that out the hard way.

+++

A contest has raged across worlds… across universes. Champions, chosen for many reasons, have been forced to fight each other.

These two… Moiraine Sedai and Kylar Stern… are the last. To get this far, each has overcome a host of opponents… vicious warriors, clever mages, gods even… and many who would have been friends or allies in other circumstances.

And now their only bar to victory, to survival, to have done with this entire business… is each other.

+++

The White Tower stands proudly, one hundred spans of gleaming bone white structure at the heart and centre of the island city of Tar Valon.

It is the home, training ground and gathering place of the Aes Sedai. Hundreds, possibly thousands of the Sisters may be found there, to say nothing of their warders… some of the most deadly warriors ever known.

Sneaking in to the White Tower to kill one of its residents would be a daunting task for anyone.

Even for Kylar Stern.

Cloaking himself in white and climbing up the outside of the Tower in broad daylight, however, was easier. Much easier. His own Talent, used frugally, didn’t seem to trigger whatever weaves the Aes Sedai used to protect their place, and while his invisibility wasn’t perfect, people, even apparently ageless magic-users and their watch-dog swordsmen, seldom looked up, and if they did and caught a slight hint of motion, well, even bone white walls cast shadows. They should have kept their stonework less ornate if they didn’t want people using it as camouflage and climbing grips.

It was a long climb, even so. His talents and the black ka’kari gave him strength and endurance beyond any normal assassin, however well trained, but one hundred spans was still one hundred spans. The climb took a while. Almost a whole hour.

He reached the top, relieved to find it empty and blissfully flat. No obvious threats presented themselves at his first glance over the railing. He scanned with his talent, drew on the additional power and focus that his sword, Retribution, gave him and scanned some more. Weaves revealed themselves. Powerful ones, all the elements and a weird ephemeral fifth form as well. Had he leapt up onto the roof, he may have set off a number of nasty surprises. As it stood, this was a delay, but a minor one. He called on the black ka’kari and drew it around him like a bodysuit as he rolled over the railing and onto the roof. The first weave almost activated…. and the ka’kari devoured its essence before whatever it was meant to do fully formed. Another redundant weave flared, that strange fifth ‘element’ swirling around him, and was devoured in turn. He felt a slight tingle through the ka’kari this time, but the Devourer would not be denied, least of all by unformed, raw power. The elements could hurt him, but they had to exist first.

Kylar allowed the black ka’kari to quest around him, absorbing a few more closer weaves, then pulled it inside. He looked over the edge of the railing at Tar Valon spread out below him. A beautiful city, with tall graceful buildings, cleaner, more brilliant than anything on his world, surrounded by shining walls, and all laid out across an island in the middle of a gorgeous blue river.

It was a shame about the flood.

Kylar reached into a sack tied to his secondary equipment belt, drew out a small blue pearl, dropped it on the roof, and then vaulted back over the side of the Tower.

+++

The River Erinin flows freely around the shining walls of Tar Valon. It is a part of the city’s defenses and its beauty.

The city itself was built by Ogier stonemasons and Aes Sedai channelers. It has never been taken by an enemy. And it has never flooded. Until today.

The water of the Erinin didn’t so much rise as creep. Slow flows, narrow as vines, made their way up the banks and then the walls like shallow streams flowing upwards, reaching the top of the walls and then flowing down into the streets. At first, in the fading light of dusk, the flows went unnoticed. But a guard walking the walls stepped in a puddle, looked up at the cloudless sky and then down… Tar Valon had seen its share of random ‘bubbles’ of evil in the Dark One’s recent activity… and men who stood guard on a city of Aes Sedai soon learned to be sharp, suspicious, and extremely careful … the alarm was raised quickly on the walls, the extent of the problem quickly observed… even as the streets started to fill with enthusiastically bubbling brooks and widening streams all running towards the White Tower.

+++

The alarm drew the attention of the Aes Sedai instantly. The steadily rising streams of water running onto the grounds of the Tower, then into the Tower itself and up the stairs level by level drew a whole other escalation of alarm.

Sisters from each Ajah hurried to investigate. Circles of sisters formed, drawing immense weaves of Air and Water to try to reverse the flows. Novices and Accepted from the Seafolk were pressed into service, some with almost no Tower training finding themselves leading whole circles of full Sisters in weaves learned and learned well on Atath’an Miere ships long before they ever came to the Tower. Water was redirected, forced, cajoled, but it all came back. Steadily, the tower was being flooded. Whole ceilings were slowly being covered with water that defied reason and logic in its travel upwards.

Moiraine Damodred held back when her Blue Ajah sisters moved to begin their own efforts against the flood. She watched as three sisters attempted to bring Fire down on a stream of water flowing along a staircase. The cloud of steam sent them into retreat. Moiraine directed her own flow of Air to dissipate the heat, and studied the water.

It flowed up. She looked around. Everywhere, along walls, between almost invisible seams of Ogier wrought stone, the water flowed up.

She diverted her attention briefly to her Warder. Lan was many floors below. He had been training with other Warders when the flooding began. The steadily increasing flow of water was causing panic and making the stairs difficult to navigate. He would get to her when he could, but for the moment…

Moiraine wove Water, not trying to stop the upwards flows but pushing them aside enough to ensure her footing. Having no difficulty – the water merely continued on its way to either side of her steps – she began to follow the flow.

The climb to the top of the White Tower was not itself difficult, but the water flows were increasing. There was no feeling of Saidar being channeled, but something was drawing the water… she prepared a offensive weave of Fire, another defensive, of Air, and moved to the roof.

What awaited her above was stunning… frightening even… the flows of water had converged into a massive waterspout, a twisting, writing pillar of water growing from the centre of the roof of the White Tower… it was immense, almost as high again as the tower itself… the weight alone would have shattered a lesser structure… she allowed herself a moment to fear what would happen if the streams of water were allowed to continue to gather, before a second sight drew her attention… Aes Sedai Sisters… three… five… six or more, all unconscious, tied up, gagged, their heads propped up above the flows of water and pushed to the edges of the roof… she had not been the first one to follow the flows… which meant…

A stabbing pain broke her line of thought even as she was about to unleash the Air…

An arm, hard as steel, powerful, reached around her throat and pulled tight. She threw herself forward, pushing out Air around her as hand as she could. Her attacker grunted and twisted the blade enough to break her concentration and dissuade further efforts.

“Listen. Don’t fight. Moiraine Sedai. Just listen.”, he hissed in her ear.

She paused. If he had intended to kill her, that knife could have gone deeper before she could stop it. She steeled herself, ignored the pain of the knife tip in her side, and spoke with full Aes Sedai calm and confidence.

“You must know there is no escape from here. And I still breath, so you did not come here to kill me.”

“Or maybe I did. And I can be down the side of the Tower before you can blink. Don’t posture. Just listen.”

She could feel Lan approaching. She could feel channeling in the floors below as the Aes Sedai efforts to control the water grew. Someone would be here any moment. She would have a chance. Drawing on her angreal, she barely nodded.

“Three things you need to know. First, the blue ka’kari will keep drawing the river here until your tower breaks under the pressure. Second, the knife in your side is poisoned and you have only moments to live without the cure I can provide. Third, you can end this, save your tower and live, with two simple words: ‘I surrender’.”

Moiraine’s mind raced, but she asserted the same calm consideration she did to everything. “How do I know you’re telling the truth about any of this?” she asked.

+++

Kylar’s perfectly plotted kill had one snag… this woman was not a deader, he was not being paid to kill her, and as far as he could tell, she was not a bad person. Which meant her really wanted to avoid her death if he could.

“You see your Sisters who got here before you. They aren’t dead. This contest has to end and your death doesn’t have to be a condition of that. Give up and we all walk away.”

+++

Moiraine’s mind raced… the contest… again the blood and bloody ashes contest… four times already she had fought … the last almost too close… now this… he claimed a simple ending, but she had heard otherwise… the consequences of a loss could be dire…

+++

Kylar felt her tense…

“Don’t be foolish. You’ve lost. I don’t want to kill you. Without the cure you’re already dead… give up.”

+++

Moiraine’s thoughts settled. She prepared weaves of Air and Fire…

“No. You give up. I can wipe you out before you ever stood on this roof. You will never stab me. You will never threaten the Tower. It will be like you never existed.”

+++

“So much as blink and this knife goes through your heart. Last chance.”

Even as he spoke he felt her tense, and by reflex borne of hard training and harsher lessons in life, drove the blade upwards…

+++

Even as he spoke, Moiraine completed the Balefire weave…


Predicted Winner: Your votes will decide!





NOTE: THIS MATCH ENDS ON THURSDAY, April 12th, 2012, AT 5 PM, EST

 

Check out the Semi-Finals

Check out the Bracket

Who will be Cage Match 2012 Champion?



Moiraine Damodred is a character from the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan; Stern is a character from the Night Angel series by Brent Weeks.


Moiraine image courtesy of Jason Chan and Tor Books. Kylar Stern image courtesy of Orbit Books.

 


Cage Match fans: We are looking forward to hearing your responses! If possible, please abstain from including potential spoilers about the books in your comments (and if you need spoilers to make your case, start your comments with: “SPOILER ALERT!”

Also–let’s keep it civil. We’re all fans of the the genre, and while we want spirited debate, we also want to hear everyone’s opinions.

Thanks!

  • Lamadrien

    @Abyss

    I’m confused.

    First you write: ”…even apparently ageless magic-users and their watch-dog swordsmen, seldom looked up, and if they did and caught a slight hint of motion, well, even bone white walls cast shadows.”

    Then you write: ”…and men who stood guard on a city of Aes Sedai soon learned to be sharp, suspicious, and extremely careful…”

    So which is it? Are they ”sharp, suspicious, and extremely careful”, or are they so careless to seldom look up, and not double, or even triple check shadows?

  • JOE

    “this woman was not a deader, he was not being paid to kill her, and as far as he could tell, she was not a bad person. Which meant her really wanted to avoid her death if he could.”
    didn’t seem to bother him when he killed Gimli or Harry. (Maybe being a woman makes it different. I don’t know.) He kind of tricked those two into killing themselves though…. which begs to question: why didn’t he do that this time?

  • JOE

    @Lamadrien
    You’ll notice those two statements are from the two character’s differing points of view. They are both perfectly true. from the different points of view.

  • James

    If Moiraine overkills Kylar with balefire, would that undo some of his victories as they’d never have happened? Cagematch 2012 – Let’s See How Long We Can Beat This Dead Horse? 😉

  • Ilidsor

    The way I see it is if that scenario happened the bale fire would destroy the black ka’kari but then Kylar would still be alive to stab Moiraine, Remember Kylar and the black are separate beings.

  • Lisa

    He is dreaming. Weapons have never been an issue for Moiraine Sedai.
    Tai’shar Cairhien!! \m/

  • JOE

    @James no I don’t think so. It wouldn’t be powerful enough to go back that far.
    She would risk destroying herself if she made it that powerful.

  • Shadow’sBane

    Kylar looks a interesting character….like Seanchan DeathKnives.
    will have the check out “the Way of the Shadow”.

  • Shadow’sBane

    what is karkari ? and what are its properties

  • Shadow’sBane

    @abyss
    really nice write-up.

  • Agreed on the balefire Joe, Mo would only need a tiny bit to wipe Kylar out to *before* he began flooding the Tower.

    Also, to Lamadrien, the first comment was about Aes Sedai and their warders not looking up at the face of the Tower, which is well away from the city walls on which the guards, who are neither Aes Sedai nor warders, noticed the oddity of water running up the walls.

    I think this was a fantastic write up! Well done, Abyss, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this and love the way you ended it. Thanks!!

  • Asteron

    Kylar Stern is about to come up against his most powerful opponent yet… the WoT fanbase!

    Not even the Black can devour that many votes!

  • TheKaspa

    But Kylar isn’t part of the Pattern, or he is just by being in Randland?

  • Shadow’s Fear

    I swear, all WoT fans do is bitch.

  • Saber

    @Shawdow’s Fear – And cheat, apparantly.

  • Adam

    Shadow’sBane, the ka’kari is a sentient being, its an orb that has bonded to Kylar. It can sense dangers he cannot and will warn him. It absorbs whatever it wants to, weapons, clothing, magic, light, heat, etc. It can become weapons such as blades, or something such as other arms. It allows for rapid regeneration and immunity to disease. Anything else?

  • Bradleelee

    ***MINOR SPOILERS***
    @Shadow’sBane: http://nightangel.wikia.com/wiki/Ka'kari
    “It’s abilities include:

    ?Making the user invisible
    ?Giving the user perfect vision regardless of light conditions.
    ?Allows the user to see the “coranti”, the Unclean.
    ?Devouring magics.
    ?If you are killed, you will re-awake after 1 day and 1 night.
    ?Injuries recover faster
    ?Never Age ”

    It is a sentient being who can give feedback and advice to the person it is bonded with. There are also things that it doesn’t quite list in the Wiki but is shown through actions in the book. Devouring magics doesn’t give the same impression on some people as negating magics. For instance, Retribution is usually coated with the Black Kakari (The Black). If someone is cut with it and has supernatural healing properties, it will stop the healing properties and not allow them to be healed. It also cuts through magical wards, barriers, etc. I cannot remember exactly, but I am pretty sure it can absorb the magic and give it to it’s wielder as well. It also coats the person who it bonded with giving him a form of light armor. It is not really clear how much punishment it can take.

    I won’t go into anything major as far as the write-up is concerned (having the blue kakari is neat but not really in his arsenal at the end of the books), but the major points are below that will decide how most people will vote: (QX is a question and AX is my own opinion as an answer.)

    Q1. Does Kylar going invisible with The Black make him completely invisible/undetectable?
    A1. According to the Night Angel Trilogy, the answer is no. (?) I seem remember the book reading that it is true invisibility, but for some reason I think that he was still detectable by mages who were looking for him.

    Q2. Does Retribution with The Black coated on it cut through all protective magics?
    A2. Yes. This has been seen many times in the NAT. Just depends on your definition of magic.

    Q3. Does The Black absorb all types of magic? In other words, make him immune to magic.
    A3. Again, I say yes. But it does depend on what you define as magic. In this case, Baelfire is magic and therefore would be devoured by The Black by my definition. Others would contend that it is a “special” type of magic that is immune to the black’s devouring. Again, preference and bias will determine what you think here.

    Q4. Does Kylar have a consceince?
    A4. This is one of the biggest questions. If he doesn’t have a consceince, or at least understands he needs to kill the person, then the fight would be over fairly fast one way or the other. Does a Wet Boy talk to his/her deader? Not really.

    Given my personal opinions and answers (simply how I think this imaginary non-canonical fight would go), The Black will absorb anything that she throws at him; even the all-powerful baelfire. The way I read it, it is still simply magic directed to do a very specific and powerful purpose. It isn’t that what it does isnt special, it is just that the mechanic behind it doesn’t make it special for how I think The Black would react to it.

    If I think of other things or people want to banter then I will respond, but for now this is enough.

  • Loki

    @Abyss

    I haven’t read the Kylar Stern series and thanks to some people forgetting that not everyone has read Brent Weeks and giving away MASSIVE spoilers in previous rounds I’m probably never going to however your write-up did a really good job of giving me a feel for both characters and I thoroughly enjoyed it. You do good work 😀

  • Ka’Carrie

    The WoT fans have admitted to cheating in the comments from the last round. I’m not sure what a proxy is or how you use one to make multiple votes but it seems only fair that if the WoT fans are going to cheat that the rest of us be told how to do it to so we can decide if we want to try and combat the WoT cheaters or not and win or lose these without those kind of tactics.
    S
    uvudu should just allow people the ability to vote multiple times otherwise small fanbases like ours are never going to have a chance if WoT characters are in these matches.

  • Shadow’sBane

    @Adam, @Bradleelee
    that is Interesting,
    the Way of the Shadows is in my reading list.

  • Darthcaz

    Totally agree with Bradleelee. There is no reason the black ka’kari would not be able to devour balefire, as it is just another form of magical energy, albeit a unique form of it.

  • VinSwift

    As a huge fan of Kylar, this write up was absolutely amazing. I think you did a great job of capturing his conscience and the fact that while he’s a trained killer, he doesn’t enjoy killing. The blue ka’kari was also a beautiful plotpoint.

  • Ulrich

    Ah, the age old question of the unstoppable force versus the immovable ka’kari.

  • CakeSauc3

    Balefire undoes EVERYTHING – even the black ka’kari. In fact, Moriaine is invincible as long as she keeps on weaving that spell. The only chance is if someone strikes her before she decides to use that weave. Unfair, I know, but life isn’t fair.

  • wcarter4

    Kylar against Moraine? Kylar
    Kylar against Moraine and Lan or Mat & Thom? Much tougher to call
    I’ve read both series. I am a fan of both series, but I honestly think Kelsier or Anomader Rake would have stood a much better chance against Kylar than Moraine.

  • Kyo

    Was a good write up – but tbh I think Kylar 100% pwned Moiraine here. He should win

  • Bradleelee

    @CakeSauc3: I know I have talked about it before in my other post, but I would like you (or someone else) to explain why they believe The Black would be undone by Baelfire. I do a decent amount of research before I make judgements on fights and I believe Baelfire is simply a weave between fire and air. Am I mistaken to assume that a “weave” is another form of magical energy and you are simply mixing two types of energy? I say simply but I know baelfire is supposed to be extremely difficult to use.

    I assume one side would say that the baelfire would destroy The Black before it has a chance to absorb, while the other would say that The Black was designed to absorb magic and would be able to take it in before it causes any damage.

  • Baco

    @Loki
    I, also, will probably forgo reading the Night Angel series due to having read all the comments of previous rounds and having it all Spoiled.

  • Isdera

    it is nice that they have retribution in this write-up (about frickin’ time!) and it is interesting that they use all it’s potential abillities (spoiler there)

  • I’m a fan of both series, though I’m very new to Weeks’ writing… that being said, I don’t know how to “cheat” on the voting, short of using different computers to submit one vote per, so I don’t particularly appreciate people calling me a cheater.

    Or saying that all I do is bitch. WTF are WoT fans supposed to be bitching about now? Light, chill out on the fandom hate, people. If you feel your character isn’t getting enough votes, appeal to the author and promote the match via the social network(s) of your choosing, like us cheating, bitching WoT fans do.

    Otherwise, shut it… or use the comments section to either congratulate Abyss on this fantastic write-up or to promote your vision of how the match would go and how your character would prevail. There’s no need to be ugly.

  • @Isdera: I was happy to see Retribution in this match, too!

  • Githraine

    Kylar never had the blue KaKari. He knows where it is but has NO way of getting it.
    This is like giving Moiraine access to the Chodan Kal because they exist in her books.

    Sorry, FAIL.

    And as a fan of both series, Kylar would not stand a chance.

  • Isn’t Balefire magic? If it is, then it wouldn’t work in the first place. the Ka’Kari absorbs magic, making Balefire useless, if I’m correct.

    As always, my vote goes to Kytlar, though I’m not feeling to good about this one.

  • Farmer Monkey

    Great write-up!

    I think you captured the essence of both characters wonderfully. The infiltration of the White Tower was an awesome setting for the confrontation.

    I’m a big fan of both series, but I’m voting Kylar. The ka’khari devours magic. Kylar is more vulnerable to pedestrian deaths than magical ones.

    If Lan were in the picture, too, maybe a different story. Moraine would have to rely on indirect effects, like hurling objects with weaves of air.

    Anyway, thanks again for all the great write-ups! Appreciate all the hard work an introductions to new series!

  • W_A

    The main point in this battle that I disagree with is that the black ka’kari would make saidar useless. In the WoTverse, we have something that almost perfectly corresponds to the Black’s power of devouring weaves- Mat’s foxhead medallion. The way it works is that it dissipates any weave that comes into contact with its wearer. This would seem to make him invulnerable to the One Power, but there is one basic workaround. It can only dissipate the actual weaves, not something that the weaves cause. So, for example, if somebody shot balefire at Mat, I think that it would be absorbed (There are probably people who disagree with me on this, but to them, I think you should remember what Perrin said. “It’s just a weave”). However, bringing an example from the book, lightning can still roast him to death, because they weave lightning by inducing a lightning bolt from the sky, not by actually making one. COnsidering that she’s been straveling with Mat, she’s probably figured this out by now. Plenty of other Aes Sedai have. Here’s an incomplete list of things that she could probably do against him:
    Lightning bolt (Previously explained)
    Throw things (Weaves of air pick up the object, and momentum keeps it going when the weaves dissipate)
    Distractions like light or sound (The weaves make the distractions, but don’t touch him)
    Create walls of earth (The weaves are only needed to make the walls-They can stay up by themselves.)
    Heat or cool the air (The weaves work on the air, and only affect him by convection)
    Summon and Control Insects (Pretty self evident)
    Traveling (Her, not him)

  • Ligaia

    Much as I like Moiraine, Kylar would beat her in a fight. Yeah, she’s got balefire, and let’s say she’s desperate enough to use it. Chances are that the ka’kari would absorb it – there’s a reason it’s called the Devourer, and since Kylar and the ka’kari aren’t from Randland, could they really be burned out of the Pattern? But let’s say that the ka’kari is destroyed by balefire – as has already been pointed out, the ka’kari is a separate being. There’s still Kylar, and while he might be shocked that the ka’kari has been destroyed, he knows that Moiraine is a formidable opponent now, and could recognize when she’s weaving balefire again. At this point, it’s a trained assassin versus… a woman. (Don’t give me that look, I’m female, I’m not being sexist.) Do we really think Kylar would give her a chance to weave balefire again, now that he’s more vulnerable without the protection of the ka’kari? I doubt it, Kylar’s made some poor decisions but he isn’t stupid.

    So I say: if it comes down to a straight-up fight, Kylar wins hands down. But since this is a popularity contest, Moiraine wins by default – Kylar’s a lesser-known character, and WoT fans are legion.

  • The Riddler

    @W_A
    SPOILERS FOR THE NIGHT ANGEL TRILOGY

    only problem with that is that the black absorbs a dagger that is thrown at Kylar at the end of the the first book and in the third book eats Kylar’s clothes and weapons so throwing things wouldn’t work

    not sure how the heating/cooling of air would help in a fight

    don’t know about the lightening bolt though

  • Daruya

    I’m a WoT fan, and cheating by proxy never even occurred to me till some people after the last cage match claimed WoT fans cheated (and even described how s/he thought they did so) after Moiraine won. Now, regardless of who wins, the win is tained with allegations because, at this point, one side claimis the other side cheated and suggests that, because of this, cheating is called for by their side. And, no, even after being told by “the other side” that it could be done and how, I didn’t vote by proxy; I voted once and only once. In closing, as I see it, the One Power is not really magic so don’t be so sure the ka’kari would absorb it.

  • Ulrich

    I’m not familiar with Kylar’s world, but if the ka’kari doesn’t actually block the balefire, would it still protect him like the foxhead medallion does? Or does its mere presence make Kylar immortal? (Especially if it does the other things The Riddler indicated above.)

    Furthermore, if the ka’kari is a sentient being attached to Kylar, why might not Moiraine get her own sentient being attached to her: eg, Lan?

  • Ashayden

    Q1. Does Kylar going invisible with The Black make him completely invisible/undetectable?
    A1. According to the Night Angel Trilogy, the answer is no. (?) I seem remember the book reading that it is true invisibility, but for some reason I think that he was still detectable by mages who were looking for him.

    I believe the scene Bradleelee is mentioning is a in the 3rd book of the NAT series “Beyond the Shadows” when Kylar approaches 2 characters in the woods: Feir and Latano near the start of the book. It is indeed true invisiblity, but Feir is able to see him and goes on to say 9/10 female magaes (not a typo) would see him, but 1/10 male mages wouldn’t (gender roles are a big and subtle issue that is interestingly explored in reference to how they work magic for those that aren’t familiar with the NAT series).

    To add fuel to the Balefire vs Black Ka’kari debate, I would like to point out that the Black Ka’kari does have a bit of a limit when it comes to Devouring magic (I’m a NAT fan and have not read the WoT series so I am basing most of this from my observations on the write ups and what I have wiki’ed). In the 2nd book of the NAT series “Shadow’s Edge” there is a scene where Kylar and another wetboy Vi are going after the Godking in Cenaria before the battle at Paarvil’s Grove. Kylar and Vi stumble upon a creepy magic experiment where Kylar basically decides to WTF! screw up. In the process, he dives through a vast amount of magic which the Black tries to absorb, but as Vi later mentions, the Black is literally bleeding out excess magic in the form of visible light from Kylar (think Woodstock lava lamp) because it simply could not Devour it all. Although this was because the magic came from about 8-10 (I think) magic user performing the experiment so it was a matter of simply a crap ton of magic from different sources.

    I do not know how “much” magic Moiraine’s weaves or Balefire is so I cannot say how much would (if it could) be devoured by the Black as certain WoT sources have stated that Balefire strength is dependent on the channeler. As Moiraine is only 1 magic user I believe the Devourer should be able to consume all the magic, but as I said earlier, I am not familiar enough with the WoT universe.

    Still it’s a good write up that I think pays homage to both fan bases. My votes for Kylar of course.

  • Darthcaz

    @Ashayden
    Great point about the excess magic. Something you didn’t focus on is the fact that when faced ith overwhelming magic, neither the black nor Kylar were hurt, but that the energy was bled back into their surroundings.

  • Hateseed

    Vote once, don’t be a tool. If you care THAT much, you need to reexamine your life priorities.

  • B. Reed

    Oh, Abyss, this one was MUCH better! There were no significant errors that I was, at least not concerning the WoT universe. And not any with the use of the Saidar. I don’t have any klnowledge or experience with Kylar’s world, so I can’t comment there.The only minor issue was female channelers can’t sense Saidin being channeled. Male channelers can sense Saidar, but not the other way around. And there were two minor word mix-ups. Writing and breath, were supposed to be writhing and breathe, but that’s not really a big deal. I still got the point.

    Compared to the last one, this one was lovely as far as accuracy with the One Power goes. Thank you, I can tell you tried really hard to learn from your mistakes on the last match. : )

    To those of you accusing WoT fans of cheating, I really don’t think spreading the word about the match on our considerable online network, consisting of multiple fan pages on facebook, twitter, as well as the main hubs like dragonmount.com, tarvalon.net, ect….is cheating. It is using the resources available to us.

  • B. Reed

    P.s Pretty sure what I mentioned above is considered voting ‘by proxy’ but I am not positive.

    Feel free to give it a shot for Kylar since it isn’t cheating. : )

  • Kyle

    I believe that the Black would devour the Balefire…From both series we have magical powers and it all works differently so we dont know…how do we compare them then??? We should assume that the magical properties (of magic) have similar if not the same complex make up so magic would work the same way in all realms…this is highly unlikely but its the only way to make them comparable…It also has to be relative, you need to look at each magic and how powerful they are…something extremely powerful in one universe could be considered extremely weak in another…this is hard because we would have to add another element into an already complex battle…In my case i believe that Kylar is just the wrong opponent for Moiraine…The Devourer (the Black) eats away magic…this puts Moiraine in a troublesome point where if the Balefire can destroy the Black she is still left with Kylar to deal with who is trained to fight against mages and warriors…i feel that if Moiraine was to win it would be due to consecutive Balefires (dont know if thats possible) or good luck…again this is my opinion done based on how i look at the competition

  • Steven

    I seriously doubt that Kylar would stop the Titani Maelstrom just to use it when he could have done a number of other things. However, I really liked the use of it. Fantastic write up.

  • David

    Ok so the book makes it a statement of fact that when covered in the black he is invisible except for when using his talent which mages can see (or if he is overflowing with raw magic like when the sister transferred the magic into him).
    This is how write ups should be. each side being left to decide who is the true victor. While I disagree that Kylar would not kill Moraine right off because she admits herself to doing evils for the sake of the pattern and saving the dragon reborn….
    Now as to how Kylar got the Blue is a good question considering he never possesses it in the books but it was a good touch to use something that we never actually see from the books in action.
    I would love the write up slightly more if it ended with moraine shooting balefire, And Kylar trying to absorb it with the black until the whole pattern starts to unravel…..

  • Rand Therin

    Balefire isn’t a thing of magic. “Magic”is what David Copperfield does. Bale fire is the power woven in a manner to destroy a piece of time. A piece of the pattern if you will. Its time to toss the dice and dance with Jack-o-the-shadow.

  • Vikenx

    *nods* I really enjoyed the write-up, much more than a few of the previous rounds. I got a good sense of the characters and that there was something actually going on they were aware of beyond most kill this person. And I can truthfully say that the write-up alone has motivated me to read Moirane in the Wheel of Time books.

    Oh, and massive props on using the Blue Ka’kari.

    The question of Balefire vs. the Devourer is an interesting and potentially complex one. Regardless, I could potentially see either character win, but I’m leaning toward the Black edging out over the Balefire. Though that’s only because I believe that as soon as the magic touches the Black it would be devoured, before it could get enough of a hold to do it’s amazingly powerful goal. Of course, this would be debatable… hell, it could even be a matter of timing, if the Black reacts fast enough… so I’m going to go with my gut. Kylar is one of my all-time favorite characters and I love Mr Weeks’s writing, so I’m going to vote for Kylar. If I’d read the Wheel of Time books then I might even try to make my own write-up, but having not read them I don’t feel it would be appropriate to attempt.

    Though now I have to add Wheel of Time to my list of books to read. I hope Kylar wins, but if not then well met Moiraine. It was a great write-up.

  • Eric

    I am a big WoT fan, and I haven’t read any of the Kylar Stern novels (though he was BY FAR my favorite character in this tournament). I couldn’t be happier with this Championship match!

    That being said, I think that the winner would completely depend on how it went down. A face-to-face fight, especially if Lan was there, I think would definitely go to Moiraine. From what I’ve read about the ka’kari it seems like direct magic is pretty much useless, but indirect attacks with the One Power may have more success? Combine that with Lan’s sword and I can’t see Kylar beating BOTH of them. However, I don’t think Kylar would ever let the fight happen that way. He is too smart and good at what he does. For these reasons, I think Kylar would win.

    Either way, I still voted for Moiraine. Why? ‘Cause f*** you that’s why.

    Great write-up Abyss! And congrats Suvudu on another great tournament.

  • WeStandForSomething

    As a huge fan of both series, I can honestly say that I have no idea who would win, or if The Black could devour balefire. For those of you that haven’t read Wheel Of Time, simply saying that balefire is magic and The Black devours magic isn’t a valid argument, since balefire is SO strong and it’s a different type of magic in a different universe. Personally, I voted for Kylar, simply because since I don’t know who wins, I decided to vote for my favourite character, and Moiraine never was my favourite from WoT. If it were Mat however….. 🙂

    Anyway, as always, may the best win, and have fun everyone; don’t take this to seriously!

    PS. Suvudu – Mat NEEDS to be in this next year. Just sayin’. 😀

  • Luke

    *Spoilers on the Way of Shadows series*
    Personally, I don’t see why the Devourer wouldn’t be able to absorb Balefire. It isn’t the devourer of magic, it just… devours. Everything, even objects, pain, time, to an extent, by making Kylar ageless, and even death when it has the right form of energy… I won’t say what that energy is or where it is aquired, as that’s too horribly spoilerish to say…

    Now I’m just curious how Kylar managed to get his hands on the Blue from within the Tlaxini Maelstrom.

  • Chris

    Have to go with Kylar here: he’s the character best suited to taking out Moiraine, if any. Just a note, when Moiraine prepares Balefire, I don’t think she could have prepared the weaves without touching Kylar and causing them to dissipate. It was still a fantastic write-up and there are other ways Moiraine can win.

  • The Riddler

    @WeStandForSomething

    I have been trying to decide what would happen when the Black would do when it met balefire I have decided that there is no way finding out and stopped trying 😀

    also i would agree with you about Matt but as was said by someone one either the list annoucement or bracket reveal “WoT fans would not let him lose under any circumstances what so ever”

  • Not a Fan of Either

    Its funny how the Kylar fans say all other fans cheat but they dont. They can do no wrong.

  • Caleb

    The balefire trick at the end was cool. I still voted for Kylar, but I almost voted for Moiraine because of that. Still, I like both series, but the Kylar character is cooler. My opinion of course.

  • yocxl

    As I’ve said before, there’s about a 99% chance that cheating has gone on in some form for nearly every character in one of these matches. So quit bitching about WoT fans cheating, because I’m sure that NOT ONE of you has cast multiple votes for Kylar, Rake, or anybody else in the match, only those disgusting WoT fans… It’s such a silly thing to get all worked up over, too.

    A possible fix would be Suvudu requiring registration to vote and letting each registered account vote only once per match. That probably wouldn’t kill it entirely, but it’d make multivoting much more of a hassle. But I’m sure people would still bitch about those horrible WoT fans cheating all the time.

  • I just don’t see why the Black wouldn’t devour balefire. Balefire is a form of magic, from my understanding, that means it gets devoured, all Kylar is facing at this point is a normal girl, no offense, but a normal girl doesn’t stand a chance, and without her magic, that’s all she really is, a women.

    Don’t get me wrong, women can be powerful, but without her magic, she’s got nothing on Kylar. I will definitely be multi-voting, seeing as the WoT fanbase seems to be doing it, which is fine, that just means Kylar fans need to do it to.

  • Chris (a different one)

    @Chris: weaves don’t have to touch the target to be prepared, they only touch after being completed and used, and balefire is… unique.

    Note: The cheating this time is going to be rampant.

  • The Riddler

    @Lee Monroe

    I don’t see how the fact (if it even is a fact) that fans of WoT multivoted justifies fans of NAT multivoting really if you win unfairly its worse than losing imo

  • WeStandForSomething

    @Lee Monroe: I see your point, but I, personally, won’t be multi-voting. I don’t care if they do it – I’m not. (Not necessarily saying they /are/ doing it. I’m not trying to point fingers, just saying.) I don’t want Kylar to win because of multi-voting and then have everyone say that he only won because we’re cheaters. I’d rather lose honestly than win by cheating. 😛

  • bibliophile785

    Here’s how I see this fight going. Please forgive me any inconsistencies concerning the characters, and feel free to point out the typos. I tried to get rid of them all, but I’m sure they’re there

    Moraine stepped lightly in the unfamiliar woods. Trees held many places for an assassin to hide, and she didn’t plan on being killed from cover. Not that she expected any attacks would penetrate the shield of Air she had woven around herself, but caution never hurt. The Blue Sisters had a large network for gathering information, and she’d heard impressive things about this Kylar character. One of which was that he had a dangerous habit of making unwanted magic disappear. She had done difficult things to get this far in the tournament (she didn’t think she would ever forget that Void-Black dragon…she still wasn’t sure how she had triumphed over it), and now nothing would prevent her from returning to The Dragon Reborn. Especially not a teenage boy.
    With new energy suffusing her steps, she strode forward. Her eyes moved in all directions, and nothing escaped their regard. She had reliable information telling her that Kylar was in the area, and she was sure he would take the opportunity to strike.
    “I should just let you keep walking…” The voice came from behind and above her. A young man of middling height, fairly attractive and well-built, clearly a warrior. He was crouched on a tree limb, ten feet back on the trail and twenty feet above her head. Moraine was mildly surprised; he hadn’t been there when she passed the tree, and she didn’t think that he could have gotten up there without her noticing.
    “That’s why I had you come out here, you know. “ His tone was smug, as only a young person’s could be. “Momma K heard about your friends asking around for information on me. You should be more careful. They weren’t obvious, but this is Cenaria. If it happens, Momma K hears about it.”
    Nothing of Moraine’s discomfiture showed on her face. Apparently, the informants of the Blue Ajah were more fallible than she had believed. “So you lured me out here to strike.” It wasn’t a question. “Why would you have let me keep walking, then?”
    “Huh, Momma K does that, too. That thing where you ask a question without asking it. And, actually, the second part of the plan was Durzo’s idea. You see, if you were to walk another ten yards or so down the path, you would enter Ezra’s Wood. There’s a Hunter that calls that patch of trees home, and no magic in the world is powerful enough to save you from it. Trust me, it’s been tried.”
    More blind certainty. It was beginning to get irksome, as was the unrelenting self-assurance. But, despite these things, Moraine’s interest was piqued. “If what you say is true, why didn’t you stop me? You could have won the match without even getting your hands dirty.”
    His reply was curt, as though he was annoyed. “I don’t like killing people who don’t deserve it. But I definitely don’t want that angreal on your forehead getting into the Wood. No telling how The Wolf would twist that to his advantage.”
    She didn’t know who or what The Wolf was, but two things had become very clear. Firstly, he knew what her angreal was, which meant he was not entirely ignorant of what she could do. Secondly, he hadn’t let her walk into the cursed forest for one reason: he enjoyed what he did. The Blue Ajah concerned themselves with justice, and she had easily read the reticence in his demeanor when he denied his profession. He hadn’t let the monster in the woods kill her because he needed to feel the joy of her death himself. That was more than enough for her. The man was as bad as any Darkfriend, and he meant her harm. “Sadist,” she muttered with distaste.
    “Hold on!” the boy protested, “I’m no Hu Gib—“Whatever he was saying was cut off as Moraine drew upon the One Power and used Saidar to cast a weave of Fire at him.
    *************************
    Kylar sent Talent surging through his muscles as he leapt into the air, avoiding a massive fireball. The ka’kari could have absorbed it, but sitting around getting hit by fireballs wasn’t his style. Instead, he soared thirty further feet into the air as his superhuman strength propelled him upward. A small knife and a smaller dart, both coated with fatal toxins, whipped towards the maja who had attacked him. Both were turned away by some sort of magical protection. He brought the ka’kari over his eyes, even as it coated his skin, and studied her again. There was some sort of magical shield riding the air currents around her body, floating and shifting but never leaving her exposed. The blue stone on her head glowed fiercely in the magical spectrum, showing some serious otherworldly power being brought to bear.
    At the pinnacle of his jump, Kylar vanished. Or, rather, he called upon the ka’kari and vanished from sight. As did Retribution, now sitting in his hand. He came down, not directly on top of her, but streaking towards a tree to her right. As he impacted against the trunk, he kicked his legs with precise timing, flipping through the air and coming down on the unsuspecting woman from a different direction. Retribution cleaved a path through the air, the Black eagerly consuming the arcane shield it encountered.
    Except that the maja was no longer in the sword’s path. She had moved, at exactly the right time. Retribution swung down where her skull had been, hitting nothing. She was fast, Kylar admitted, and clever to have heard his change of approach, but not nearly fast or clever enough. Retribution darted out again, and she had no defense. At least, she had no defense until a large wall of earth sprung from the ground and intercepted his strike. The unbreakable blade, fuelled by Talent-strength, cut a large divot in the wall, but wasn’t nearly enough to break through and spear her. Kylar leapt lithely to the top of the wall, knowing that she couldn’t delay him forever.
    Two powerful blasts of air struck him. They were strong, enough so that they would have crushed his body like a pathetic doll had they impacted. But, again, with the ka’kari, this wasn’t much of a battle. The magically propelled air was effortlessly absorbed. Kylar noted that the maja’s eyes were tracking his movement, and realized that, like nine out ten maja, she could see through his invisibility. He stepped lightly from the wall…and fell into the fissure that opened at his feet. He snagged the edge and swung himself up, avoiding what looked like a nasty fall. He saw that there wasn’t going to be a victory as long as she could continue to defeat his attacks with her magic. She had already woven another shield around herself, making her impervious to his projectiles. He would have to change his tactics.
    He reached out and snatched the angreal from her forehead. She seemed surprised…which was understandable, since he wasn’t anywhere near grabbing distance, and the hand holding her talisman was a phantom hand constructed of pure Talent. Her shield of air hadn’t impeded it in the least. He smiled in satisfaction, just in time to be utterly blinded and deafened by a roar of light, ridiculously powerful. He felt the magic crawling over his skin, sinking into the ka’kari without surcease. It flowed over and around him, among the most powerful magic he’d ever experienced. More powerful than Solon’s use of Curoch in Cenaria, almost as intense as the glancing blow Garuwashi had delivered to him with that almighty blade.
    The attack ended, only an instant after it had begun. No more of that. The ka’kari’s voice, alarmingly weak in his head, sounded vaguely sickened. It was almost enough to tear me apart. Kylar saw that he was glowing, dull red light bleeding off of him in waves. Suddenly fearful, he glanced up, expecting to be struck down by a second blast of that awful power. Instead, he saw the maja staring at him with an identical expression. From the corner of his eye, he saw a glint of gold and a flash of sapphire blue. The angreal, torn from the woman’s head by his phantom snatch, skittered into the undergrowth.
    He saw his opportunity. Moving with all the speed his Talent could give him, Kylar lunged. His hand stretched out, reaching for the maja’s neck. Even as he moved, though, yet another blast of air struck at him. It wasn’t as powerful as the first ones, and the ka’kari absorbed some piece of it, but it still cancelled his forward momentum. His lead finger barely brushed her windpipe as he swung his arm wildly. It was enough. Focusing the ambient energy still radiating from the ka’kari wrapped around hand, he released scorching heat from his fingers. The gentle brush against the maja’s throat left a searing, bubbling track. She collapsed, even as his wild lunge caused him to fall beside her.
    *****************************
    Moraine watched as the wetboy regained his feet. He recovered his enormous sword, holding it easily in one hand, and stood above her. “I told you I wasn’t a Hu Gibbet,” he said in an awful, powerful voice. In the voice of Judgment. “I’m the Night Angel.” Retribution came down in a blur, and she knew no more.

  • Metacognition

    Just based on the the write up (Nicely done Abyss!), Kylar has already won, IMO. She’ll be poisoned and unless the balefire actually works (I don’t believe it would), Kylar would be gone with the antidote. Before anyone could reach her to try to heal her, she’d be a goner. Kylar on the other hand has survived falls like that before and that’s if he doesn’t use the Ka’kari to anchor himself to the tower.
    I posted this in the round 4 recap thread and I don’t think it’s as good as Abyss’ write up, but I thought I’d share my write up for how I thought things would go down:

    Kylar watched from the rafters as Moraine entered the cathedral. Shadows played within the space between the torches that lit the walkway between the pews. Upon the altar there was a simple note. It read in a simple hand: Moraine Damodred.
    Moraine glided down the walkway with a grace born of years within a noble house and even more years as an Aes Sedai. Her eyes never seemed to search, but every glance said that she had taken in her surroundings, seeing every crack within the pillars. As she reached the altar, she slightly frowned at the note left for her before channeling. She had been too long trained in the Game of Houses for her to actually touch the note. Even though her weaves didn’t reveal any traps, they wouldn’t stop something more mundane. In truth, she almost burned it on the spot, but she had come too far for her to give in to such childish notions now.

    Kylar didn’t know exactly what happened, but he saw his note lift off the altar without being touched. The seal was removed as she read.
    “So much for the easy way,” Kylar said to himself. He’d laced the paper with a contact poison that would numb any creature that came into contact with it. Since he wasn’t sure what properties his opponent would have, it was best to err on the side of caution and something that even slowed his opponent down even just a bit would be more than enough of an opening for him. Now that he knew, he mentally checked which daggers he had that would kill a human deader.

    Moraine read the note with little expression, yet her eyebrows wanted to rise.

    “Moraine Damodred,
    It seems that we are destined to meet. I do not like games, so let us finish this ruse. If you are holding this, SURPRISE! If not, well… surprise anyways!
    -Kylar.”

    Quickly Moraine dropped the note and spun around, looking every which way, yet taking it all in. Suddenly a figure dropped before her. It wasn’t quite entirely there. Blue lightning against the black seemed to emphasize every curve of it’s muscular body and the mask that seemed to be it’s face showed no emotion except disfavor.
    “So you are the so called Night Angel,” she said diffidently only slightly looking up to him. “I expected someone taller.”
    The blue flames flared as she weaved sheets of flame around him.
    The illusion burst into smaller fragments than dust mites. “Crap, ” Kylar whispered. He was still only halfway down a pillar behind Moraine by this point. Not where he wanted to be, but maybe still close enough. He swiftly threw two daggers at her.
    The two daggers almost lazily fell to the ground from the shield of air she had woven around herself before she even entered the cathedral. Moraine spun around, catching her first glimpse of her opponent. It was only a glimpse though, as he shot off away from where he was towards another pillar as soon as the daggers flew. Channeling towards the pillar where he would land, she focused earth and fire.

    Kylar expected to have something to latch onto, but just as he reached his target, it burt into flames. No, it BECAME flames! The entire pillar was gone and the building shook from losing one it’s supports. There was nothing he could do but pass through it. Gritting his teeth, he finished his leap as the flames licked at him for an instant. Charred flesh and screaming nerves reminded him of one of the many rules Durzo had drilled into him: Don’t leap around, as it only let’s your opponent know where you’ll be. He felt stupid for discounting his opponent so far, after all, only the best would have made it this far.
    He didn’t let the pain stop him though, as he dodged between pillars, slowly circling his deader.

    Moraine almost grunted after trying to capture the shadowy figure with weaves of air the first time. It almost seemed as if the weaves were sucked in and only her cutting off the weave herself stopped it from possibly devouring every last inch of saidar. After that rude lesson, she contented herself with fireballs and eruptions of earth and everything else she could throw at him. If the one power couldn’t touch him, the effects possibly still could. Yet the shadow was FAST. It wasn’t as if he was hard to follow though. After her attempt to catch him with air, he seemed to almost glow dimly, yet every time she thought she knew where he would land, he changed directions.

    Kyalr dodged for all he was worth. He barely ducked a fireball there only to be confronted with the earth rising to meet him right afterward. He spun and twisted and tumbled his way around the building, barely one step ahead of the chaos left behind him. He felt the rhythm of the battle sweeping through him and was able to time out every move as if they were planned by an orchestra. The crash of the fire hitting a wall was the crash of the cymbals, the shattering of earth, the beat of the drums.
    “Almost there,” he said to himself as he started back to where he first leaped from.

    It was growing dimmer. It wasn’t till after she could barely see anything but this Night Angel that Moraine noticed that she’d doused most of the torches around her during her attempt to destroy him. She tsked herself for being so careless, but what was done was done. She wouldn’t be able to weave at targets she couldn’t see, so she let up her assault long enough to weave a blue orb of light, balanced above her head. In her moment of distraction, she lost sight of her opponent.

    “There!” Kylar thought, as the destruction around him faltered for half a second. Using the Ka’kari, he wrapped it around himself as he stopped where he was and went invisible. He was standing almost right in front of the altar, where this battle began. On silent feet, he started towards her…

    Moraine looked around, hoping to catch a glimpse of Kylar. She had heard of his ability to become invisible, but never expected it to be so complete! Weaving earth and air, she gathered the dust and ash from around the shattered remains of their fight and wove them into the air around her in a swirl. A humanish shape emerged before her, not two paces away. She smiled slightly. It was time to end this. Though she didn’t like using it unless it was needed, it was now or never. She began weaving the flows for Balefire…

    A small quirk of her lips and a light of recognition in her eyes was all the warning Kylar had. He’d been spotted. Almost without thought, he threw himself away from where he’d been. A beam of fire and light seared through the air where he had been standing and even with the slight warning, it still caught him slightly on his shoulder as he dived away.
    “OOOOWWWWW!!!” Echoed the Ka’Kari in his head. “I don’t know what the hell that was, but it’s like getting hit by Curoch! Let’s not do that again!”
    Kylar wasn’t about to argue, but the beam kept on coming. Everywhere it touched, walls, pillars, pews, everything seemed to disappear. He threw a a dagger at it only to have it vanish, reappear within his hand for half a second as if it had never been thrown, then it was gone as if it had never been. He barely kept ahead of the beam as it cut away behind him. Finally, knowing he could go no farther, he ducked underneath it along one of the walls to the cathedral, keeping his invisibility going. Luckily the beam continued on and Kylar climbed the wall back up to the ceiling again.

    Moraine saw the Balefire hit him, but since he didn’t just vanish like something hit by balefire typically did, she wasn’t willing to count on a glancing blow to be enough to finish him off. He’d dived off to her right, so she continued the beam that way even though she could no longer see him as she shattered the ash and dust she’d kicked up before. halfway across the room, she finally stopped. Was it done? Could she finally move on to more important tasks?
    The only warning she had was the shock of the web of air around her being severed. Her eyes widened in shock as she felt a slight pinch on her shoulder, but when she whipped around, there was no one there. What seemed to her as very slowly, she eyed her shoulder, where a tiny droplet of crimson blood was just starting to bead. She felt her legs weaken and her breath started coming in bursts. Before she knew what had happened, she was staring at the legs of one of the pews, inches from her face. As darkness closed in, she found herself thinking, “The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.”

    Kylar made his way back up the silk rope he’d hung from the rafters earlier. He’d hung it there ‘just in case,’ but he was very glad Durzo had taught him to plan for every eventuality. Without it, he didn’t know what he would have done.
    At least if was finally finished.
    ————————————————————————-

    I’ve read both series, but it’s been a while, so hopefully I didn’t make too many mistakes.

  • Zangetsu

    This write up was brilliant! I have only read the nightangel books but the WoT is on my to read list and I will be reading it in the future. This is by far my favorite write up and I have real trouble voting in this fight as it seems that it should just end in a draw as both characters are brilliant and neither deserve to loss 🙂

  • Ashayden

    @Darthcaz – True. I should also mention that Kylar can control all the magic the Black takes in as well. The next scene from the one I mentioned earlier has Kylar literally channeling that extra magic he was bleeding out and blasting it out his hand where he leaves a hand shaped tunnel through a 4 foot door.

    For those unfamiliar with it, in the NAT world, Magic (what us NATers generally refer to as Talent) requires 3 things. Energy Reservoir in the body (the glor vyriden), a Conduit (its literally how the body translates the energy), and a way for the user to absorb light (either through the eyes or skin). Primary sources for mages and magaes are the Sun and any fires around (Meisters of any sort are an entirely different matter and one I don’t need to go into as it has no bearing here). Kylar has all this and one other thing: the Black Ka’kari. Any type of energy it devours, magic or otherwise, is given to Kylar to use. Eg. Kylar puts out a fire in the woods at night with the Black which then infuses him with the energy from the fire itself. (“Beyond the Shadows” Kylar and Durzo meets Eris in the woods just before Durzo goes into the Wood). Any magic Moiraine tries to throw at him can potentially be used against her.

  • David

    please forgive me for anything i get wrong and if you dont enjoy it im sorry i wrote this after reading abyss writeup which i liked but i hope you enjoy reading it at least as much as i did writing it.

    The Assassin was good, not the normal brand of pickpocket turned killer she was used to, but a real threat. This was a trained killer who showed no fear of taking on an Aes Sedai and her warder. She felt the little knot in her brain again to make sure Lan was still alive, whatever the man had stabbed him with had not gone deep enough to cause a lethal wound but the poison on the blade was working quickly and Moraine could feel his strength fading, he would be of no help now but if she could end this quickly Lan would survive. The fight had been so fast if Moraine had not been bonded to Lan she might not have been aware of what was happening in it at all.
    To the world it probably had looked as if Lan was training, like he did in the Courtyards of Tar Valon almost everyday, but the intensity flowing thru the bond made her aware that the fluid movements were his only defense against an unseen foe. Years of training and instincts put to the test while gracefully moving from one technique to another but still no enemy appeared before him. A dagger had appeared from nowhere to lodge itself in Lans side, Doing little damage but slowing his deadly dance. Slowly each swing became harder and less precise; every step became a struggle till Lan slumped to the ground unable to defend himself.
    “Well that was a big boy there, almost a shame to fight him like this, He probably could have killed me in a fair fight” Kylar’s voice seemed to come from everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Morraine had found herself a wall to put at her back and embraced Saidar, weave after weave flowed from her ones meant to detect, others to bind, and still more to react if he attempted to approach her.
    “I have fought Trollocs, Mydrall and Even some of the forsaken, Do not think a few tricks can frighten me” Morraines statement came with the full calm and authority that only an Aes Sedai could portray.
    Kylar tested the black on the strange magic that seemed almost threadlike as if someone was trying to knit magic into something, while strange the black devoured it like everything else it came across. “hmmm odd this stuff is almost like what Ezra used to make the silver” The black rarely talked but when it did Kylar always took note. The magic he was dealing with here was powerful maybe powerful enough to break the black so he would have to be cautious.
    As the weaves spread further and further they began to disappear one by one. IT was as if the world itself was Devouring them. Still able to see nothing and her defenses being removed one by one Morraine embraced Saidar Once more, Combining fire and air and sweeping it across the field in front of her. Kylar bartely had time to coat himself in the black before the fire hit. Walking thru the flame as the Black Devoured it around him, Kylar looked to be a Glowing black and red Coal in an out of control fire. Seeing her attack had no effect but finally having a target she could pinpoint, the weaves for Balefire began to form almost immediately.
    Kylar could tell the next attack was going to be her biggest, she was trapped he had the upper hand and her bodyguard, warders he remembers them being called, is almost dead. If he could he would save the man, a pure soul if there ever was one he would have but nothing short of killing him would have stopped him from protecting his Aes Sedai.
    He knows instictivly this is what the black was warning against a power like the attack she was gathering is not one he could survive directly, but glowing as he was he couldn’t risk trying to dodge it either, leaving him with one option. The black, if it could devour her other magic maybe it can devour this attack. Both prepared for the assault Kylar pooling the black around himself and forming a thick shield in front of his arms. Morraine filled to the brink with saidar unleashed the torrent of balefire directly at Kylar. As the two forces collide the black begins to devour the balefire but as it pushes forward to devour more it is ripped out of the pattern, the two forces struggle back and forth devouring one another only to be renewed again.
    Morraine collapses from the use of Saidar the balefire disappearing as suddenly as it appeared but instead of the silence that normally follows a clap as loud as thunder shakes her and kylar both tossing him away from the collision and her into the wall behind. Next the ripples begin to appear, First small but they begin to grow larger as a whole forms where the black shield in front of kylar’s arms met the balefire. Kylar stands a little shakily but observes the whole slowly growing in front of him. “what is that?” he says mostly to himself but the black responds anyway. “that is a hole in the world… Its going to devour this world and there is nothing I can do to stop it” kylar let this sink in for a moment, So many innocents about to die and nothing he can do to stop it. Then the black is there again “RUN!!!! Get a move on it the closer you are to that the quicker were both going to die we need to finish this and get back to our world” by this of course he meant the half dazed Morraine who was finally on her feet….

    …In the moments that followed the unraveling Moraine was faced with her greatest fear, the pattern was failing and it was her fault. She had been so desperate to stay alive, insistent that only she could guide the Dragon Reborn to the final battle. She had always known there was the chance of unmaking the pattern when using to much balefire but she had never considered the possibility that someone would have an Angreal that matched the power of her Balefire. Even in the records telling of the Age of legends there was never a mention of anything withstanding Balefire but the hole in the pattern twisting out of control in front of her told her all she needed to know.
    This Assassin possessed some Angreal or Tangreal that had unrivaled powers but here he was using it to do the most loathsome type of work it made her very blood boil, but even with the fear of the pattern unraveling her outward Aes Sedai calm did not waver once. With the whole beginning to grow rapidly and her opponent standing near by Morraine did the only thing she could think of to save the pattern, the weave began to form but with being so weak it took her a few moments to gather the necessary will to wield enough saidar so soon but the weaves formed and she directed them at her target.
    Kylar could not believe the drive of this woman, he was beginning to respect her in a way only someone who had fought to death could appreciate when he saw her forming another attack. The black didn’t need to urge him this time, instincts kicked in kill or be killed and the daggers appeared smoothly as he ran and dived for moraine…
    Morraine saw the attack coming but instead of launching the balefire at Kylar she did the only sensible thing left to her the only thing that could save her world and allow for Rand to defeat the Dark one in the final battle. She launched the balefire onto herself, Smiling as she was ripped out of the pattern ceasing to exist. As the fire ripped her from the pattern the hole in the fabric went as well the rippling stopping.
    Kylar landed with a thud, so surprised at not colliding with her and his brain still trying to comprehend just what happened his instincts don’t kick in until hes already hit and he forces himself into a crouch to look around. Realizing there has been no trick she really sacrificed herself to save the world Kylar is hit once again with a feeling that he has just killed a true hero, this world would never know of her sacrifice to save them but he would. Walking over to where Lan, now unconscious and barely breathing, he turns him over and leans in to pour the antidote in his mouth.
    “no point in killing you now” Kylar says as he lays him on the ground and turns to walk back to the portal that will releases him from this bloody contest. “you shouldn’t have turned your back on him” The black says as the pain of the blade passing thru his chest registers to kylar. Lan is barely standing as he pulls the blade from kylars back, and watches him fall. “I guess I was wrong, you can take me in an unfair fight too” Kylars last words struggle to come out as his vision begins to fade. Lan walks away from the dieing assassin and collapses onto the burnt ground were morraine last stood, weeping for a loss so deep only a warder could understand…..

  • Asteron

    I would like to make a couple of points:

    1) Lots of votes doesn’t mean that the WoT fans are cheating. WoT is one of the most popular fantasy series ever. They typically get a lot of votes.

    2) The Black isnt invincible. ****SPOILER**** Remember when Kylar blocked Curoch with the black? It nearly killed it. Balefire is not magic. It is the effect created by the weaves, like lightening or a flame. Can Kylar be hurt by lightening or fire? Yes he can.

    3) By entering the WoT world and interacting with it, Kylar effectively becomes part of the pattern.

    One can even argue that all worlds are just different parts of the greater pattern. This is theorized in some part of a WoT book, i think.

  • sacredhonour

    Just a couple of points for consideration. (I have read both series, multple times)

    1) People need to remember Balefire needs to be targeted. It is basically like a lazer so Moiraine needs to hit Kylar with it. Admittedly as long as her aim is good he would not be dodging it, but it is a targeted weave and small in diameter (especially at Moraine’s strength).

    2) The Black Ka’kari should be considered Cuellendar (sp). In the NAT universe, the Black is nearly indestructible along with a few other weapons. In a cross-universe space like this, my opinion would be it sits firmly in the Cuellendar ranks. The Black can be destroyed (as can Cuellendar, eg The Seals), but it takes Saitan like power levels (similiar to WoT).

    3) Kylar is basically invulnerable to direct magic. In-direct attacks would still mess him up pretty decently. In the trillogy he is never immune to damage even at the end of book 3. Strong enough physical attacks can do serious damage. I.E., dropping boulder on him would cause issues.

    4) Moiraine (like most Aes Sedai) uses her hands for a lot of weaves, Balefire being one them. Disabling her hands would throw her off.

    I seriously have no idea what would happen if the Black/Balefire met. I think it would be a bit like crossing Balefire streams.

  • Well, it appears that Brent’s tweet might have done the trick xD The other WoT fans must be sleeping…
    Either that, or all the fans of people Moiraine beat are exacting their revenge :’)

    It’d be nice if there were a way of discerning the winner without overwhelming fanvoting. This match especially presents a conundrum. If the ka’kari absorbs Balefire, Kylar wins. If it doesn’t, Moiraine wins, since she’ll make it strong enough to burn him out until BEFORE the poison was administered.

    It’s a tricky one – I voted Moiraine, on the basis that Balefire doesn’t work quite like other weaves, and also because I like her more than I like Kylar.

  • Rand Therin

    Moraine Damodred is the baddest chick alive in Randland. Say that them three bratty bitches are stronger than her if you wish, that does not by any means make them more dangerous than Moraine. Balefire for the victory, An unstoppable superweapon, use it early, use it often. Use it always.

  • bibliophile785

    Typos, the bane of my existence…and they’re always obvious right after I press the submit button:

    3rd to last paragraph: “No more of that” and “It was almost enough to tear me apart” are supposed to be in italics. The ka’kari is speaking.

    2nd to last paragraph: “…still radiating from the ka’kari wrapped around *his* hand,”

    Sorry about those….

  • Jon Schiavinato

    The write up was beautifully done (I thought) and really seemed to respect both characters.

    I came here thinking that Moraine would win tbh but the write-up tilted me in Kylar’s favour. He seems to have already won, regardless of if the Banefire is successful or not.

    Either it isn’t successful and gets devoured, she dies from the poison. Kylar wins.
    It is successful, Kylar survives (barely) because he’s actually lived through worse.
    It is successful, Kylar dies from injuries but AFTER the poison kills Moraine.
    It is successful, Kylar dies BEFORE the poison kills Moraine, but her death is final where-as he comes back to life.

    That is just my take on how the write up laid things out though. Still, I thought it was really well done, very respectful to both characters, I really like how you showed Kylar’s conscience and Moraine’s thought process.

  • Jon Schiavinato

    Balefire^ made a typo and called it Banefire, my apologies

  • Jon Schiavinato

    Balefire^ called it Banefire by mistake, my apologies.

  • I voted once but I love that BITCH. Have grown up with her since I was 18. I might need to pick up this other series. Looks interesting. GOOD LUCK AND THE WIND IS STILL BLOWING!

  • Steve

    I wasn’t sure I how I was gonna vote and this was an amazing read, and I’m definitely gonna buy the Moiraine book as i’ve already read Night Angel. however, i don’t believe you can stop your own death, not even Kylar’s “immortality” can stop death, so if Moiraine got killed she’s dead. Can’t change that, even if the killer didn’t exist anymore…i didn’t read the book so i’m not sure this logic works, but i stand by the belief that you can’t stop death, so I voted for Kylar.

  • Joel

    Absolutely fantastic write-up. Thank you!

  • D.I. Waisanen

    I will stand by the stance that balefire will absolutely NOT be absorbed by the Black Ka’kari. Balefire is not something that can be absorbed, can be eaten, or consumed. It isn’t matter, it isn’t energy, it doesn’t even fully play by the rules of reality. Anything that balefire touches is unmade before it hit them. Even Kylar’s ability to come back from death won’t save him, because balefire canonically prevents resurrection. I.e. the Dark One could not bring back the Forsaken after they were balefired.

    Even if, somehow, the BK was able to resist balefire, the result of the fight will still be the same. What’s to stop Moiraine from sucking all of the air out of the area where Kylar is and leaving him to asphyxiate to death? What’s to stop her from picking up a boulder the size of a person and throwing it at him? What’s to stop her from using spirit weaves to cut him off from his Talent? What’s to stop her from killing him through indirect means regarding the environment, such as opening a pit a hundred feet deep below his feet?

    All I’ve been hearing is this endless “The Black Ka’kari eats everything and is unlimited and all powerful.” If anything could destroy it, balefire could. The fact that anything exists in Kylar’s world that could damage or destroy the BK is very convincing evidence that it could not withstand balefire.

    I also can’t really see any way for Kylar Stern to really hurt Moiraine in any permanent sense, she could just cover herself in air shields and tie off the weaves, leaving her effectively impervious to physical attacks as long as she continues to pump saidar into them.

  • Random Man

    @Steve:

    Balefire burns anything it touches out of the Pattern, and erases actions directly caused by the target a certain ways back in time. The memories of what the target did remain but the actions are erased. It’s a bit of a paradox and could bring about instability in reality. The more powerful the balefire, the further back in time a target’s actions are erased. Moiraine has said the strongest she could manage was a few seconds The actual numbers are kinda fudgy on this, we’ve never actually seen the limit on it. We have seen \dead\ characters brought back due to their killer being balefired some minutes after. If she could manage a strong enough weave of balefire it could perhaps burn Kylar’s actions back to before he poisoned her.

    If the ka’kari is able to absorb balefire and treat it like magic in his world, then balefire wouldn’t work since it would be considered a direct weave. I don’t particularly think balefire would work. However Moiraine’s come across an object of Power that can block direct weaves of the Power before. The carrier of this same object has also had others independently figure a way around it — you can’t hold someone fast with Air but you can use Air to throw, say, a spear at it, or pull down the ceiling and bury him in 4000 pounds of masonry. I’m sure she would be able to figure that out against Kylar and work around it seeing she does have the experience with seeing such a thing before.

  • Pete

    Moiraine cracks open the ground beneath Kylar’s feet, dropping him into a fiery chasm. I think its funny that everyone is reducing Moiraine to just spamming Balefire at Kylar. You all DO remember that the One Power can be targeted at things other than people, right?

  • Random Man

    @Pete:
    I think the majority’s arguing within the context of the writeup. Totally agree though, especially as Moiraine has only used balefire twice in the entire series due to understanding the dangers of it.

  • Andrakis

    Depends how quick kylar is and wether he will abandon the knife, Balefire still has to hit him. And KaKari in my belief will react like it would to curoch. Not good! But kylar is quick and Moraine will probably die, kylar would of used White Asp’s poison probably. She would be dead before she would be found and Healed. Unless Nyneave was literally watching. I love both these series and WoT is probably liked a tiny bit more than Night Angel But i’d have to give to kylar if it was on the situation written above!

    Good Use of the Blue Kakari. But Why not the red in the Mountain beside the white tower? It exploded once befeore 🙂 Or would it be to hard to get from a volcano u reckon?

  • Metacognition

    Few things to consider when making a case for Moraine using her magic to interact with the environment to deal with Kylar.
    1- It’s highly unlikely that she’ll be at any extreme distance from him, so she also has to worry about whatever she’s throwing around. If she could pick up a big enough boulder (remember there’s still limits on what individual Aes Sedai are capable of picking up with the power), she has to concern herself with being crushed right along with it, or falling down the same pit, or being burned by the same flames.
    2- It takes time to move any substantial amount of the environment along the lines that have been suggested. Need I remind everyone of outside Shadar Logoth in the first book?
    3- Kylar is FAST. The Ka’kari not only protects but enhances. Plus, he’s been trained to a fine honed weapon. A little ground shaking isn’t going to be enough to disrupt him.
    4- It’s very hard to hit what you can’t see! Where are you planning on throwing that boulder? On top of yourself? Cause that’s probably the best chance of hitting him. Add into this that Kylar can (SMALL SPOILER) create his own illusions and she’d find herself tearing up the entire countryside/building without hitting anything but air.

    Just some food for thought. I could go through any specific scenarios you’d like to throw, but I think that on the whole, these things need to be taken into account before you just start making blanket statements.

  • Happy

    Let me also second everything Metacognition said. Especially (4). It’s surprisingly difficult to hit something you can’t see.
    Remember Kylar can do magic as well. In fact, his magic is derived from light and fire. His ka’kari enhances this, among other things, meaning he can quite happily absorb any balefire and use it against Moiraine. Even if you’re not inclined to believe this, Kylar is very fast and dodging it wouldn’t be a problem. Tbh, I wouldn’t worry about balefire at all, Moiraine has always been very frugal in her use of it. Of course, fire and lighting could be a bit more of a problem.

  • Jerry

    I love both series but Moiraine should win. The write up was good but the error almost all of the responses on here make is thinking that the black kakari will stop balefire because balefire is magic. The weave that Moiraine uses to make balefire is the magic and could be stopped by the black kakari but the balefire itself is not the magic, it is the weapon formed as a result of the magic, a weapon that destroys whatever it touches from existence before it touched them.

    Some also think that balefire would only destroy the black kakari and that Kylar would then be alive to kill Moiraine. No. The balefire would hit the kakari first and destroy it and immediately hit Kylar and destroy him. The Kakari winks out of existence once touched and Kylar gets hit immediately. You cannot dodge balefire. I don’t know where some of you got that idea from. Balefire moves at the speed of light. It cannot be dodged. If Moiraine’s aim is off because she is falling or something then she could miss but you can’t react fast enough to dodge something that moves at the speed of light.

    Another error people have been making is thinking that the kakari will bring Kylar back to life after he has been balefired. Balefire prevents souls from being brought back to life. In the Wheel of Time universe the Dark One who essentially has the powers of a God can bring souls back from the dead but cannot do so for those that are balefired. The black kakari is freaking powerful but the rules for how balefire works simply overmatch the rules for how the kakari works. It does not matter how powerful the balefire is for it to work. It works everytime to kill pre-instantly. The power of the balefire only affects how far into the past the person actually dies before he was hit by balefire. So even if Kylar stabs her first when he is balefired his action of stabbing her would likely not have accurred because his death actually takes place at least several secinds before the balefire hits him.

  • Terez

    @yocxi—They’ll never require registration to vote because that would seriously cut down on the number of people who vote at all.

    @Josh—We haven’t played any power cards yet, and probably won’t until Wednesday, if we do at all. Maybe we’ll forgo the biggest one, but as I mentioned to Loki, usually when we advertise for a second match on the WoT Facebook page, it doesn’t pull in as many votes as it does the first time, because people think they’ve already voted.

  • Ka’Carrie

    @Daruya – It wasn’t the ‘other side’ that said you guys cheated – it was Terez and other WoT fans. Sure, they all said that ‘they themselves didn’t do it’ but the fact remains that WoT fans DID using cheating (the Malazan fans may have as well) and as far as I know, those of us in the Weeks fan circles haven’t and don’t know how. If cheating is the only way to beat WoT as was said about last years Quick Ben versus Perrin win then I think we should have that option available to us as well. Otherwise, these entire competitions are nothing more than a playdate for the WoT characters.

  • Terez

    Ka’Carrie—I can guarantee you that there are plenty of Weeks fans who know how to cheat, even if none have said so. It’s pretty simple if you have any real knowledge of how computer stuff works. That being said, it’s a pain in the ass, and few people have bothered. But again, Moiraine did not win because of cheating. I didn’t bother because I knew it wasn’t necessary; we had powercards still in the hand to play, so why sit in front of a computer for hours voting by proxy? The people who were cheating on the WoT side early on in the match were people who had no idea what was going on and really thought she was going to lose. And I can guarantee there was also cheating on the Malazan side, though I tried to warn them that resistance was futile. :p

  • Loki

    @yoxcyl
    The easiest way to stop cheating would be to allow for multiple votes, either one after the other or one per day etc. That way, the size of an authors fanbase would be irrelevant. An author with a small but dedicated fanbase could still win the competition. Plus, it would make it more like a game – to see which fanbase can out vote the other. Since there is no actual prize to this competition I see no real need for a ‘one vote only’ approach. Plus, it would remove all the cheating discussion.

    @Terez – I think it woud be interesting to see how the match ends without rallying the WoT troops – most of the votes you pulled in for Moiraine were from WoT fans who had no interest in the Suvudu Cage Match – they just voted for their character in some poll. I reckon it would be interesting to see how she does based purely on the votes of people who actually follow and participate in the Cage Matches. I’m not a WoT fan but I won’t hold it against you either if you decide victory is preferrable and play your aces again 🙂

    @Baco – I know how you feel. Of all the series, the spoilers for Brent Weeks series have been consistant and more annoyingly, not forewarned – at all in earlier rounds. I had actually bought the first book but by the time it arrived I just handed it to my partner because I saw no point in reading it anymore. It would be like finding out the ending to the Sixth Sense or Primal Fear – why bother seeing the movie still? Really annoyed by it.

    There are some really nice write-up heres. I’m not sure how accurate they are since I haven’t read WoT in some time and I’ve never read Kylar Stern’s series but they read well and are enjoyable. I still prefer Abyss’ though – partly because he is our bewhisked overlord but mostly because I simply enjoy it the most (so far, at least 😀 )

  • NightAngel4theWIN

    ***Spoiler Alert***

    Firstly I wanted to say, this is an awesome write up. By far one of the better ones I’ve seen here. Second i want to acknowledge that i have not read any of the WoT books, and therefore my opinion is possibly based on flawed information and I’m also a huge fan of Brent Weeks and the Night Angel series. Regardless of my personal feelings (Kylar is AWESOME!!!) I could easily see this go either way. The ka’kari is unable to absorb too much magic at once, as seen towards the end of the second book Shadow’s Edge. Also immensely powerful magic such as that of Curoch will kill him even beyond the point of revival as stated by Durzo in Beyond the Shadows. That being said if Kylar can get the ka’kari to absorb the weave of the Balefire spell before Moiraine can hit him with it she is pretty much screwed. Personally I voted for Kylar (I know, Fuccilo \HUGE\ surprise there) but i could understand if he lost.

  • Metacognition

    @Jerry:
    I disagree with your concept of balefire. That’s like saying that a weave of air couldn’t hold anything or a mask of mirrors wouldn’t be able to hide anything or that traps that are woven wouldn’t do anything, especially tied off. The effect of the weaves is still apart of the weaves. As far as dodging it goes, many of the forsaken have dodged weaves of balefire or else some of Rand’s fights would’ve been very boring! 😉 And Nynaeve has dodged it before as well. Those are just the circumstances off the top of my head that I can think of.
    As far as it destroying anything and everything it touches, there’s at least one item even in the WoT that resists balefire, cullendar. Considering that, it is no more a stretch to think that the Ka’kari would be able to resist it than it is to make a case that the black wouldn’t be able to eat it because there’s a weapon in NAT that can hurt it.
    Finally, balefire is a targeted weave. You have to have a place to shoot it at! If your target is always moving (Rahvin) or you can’t see your target (Nynaeve in Tanchico), you’re probably going to miss. It’s not as point blank as you make it out to be IMO.

  • dawoad

    liked the write up, glad that it came down to these two and congratulations to whoever should win.

  • Novouto

    Kylar sucks because his series does. Moiraine is awesome because her series is awesome.

  • yocxl

    @Metacognition: You’re probably wrong on that one.

    (SOME WoT SPOILERS, NOTHING TOO MAJOR) There are many instances in which the effects of a weave do not count as the weave itself. That’s why a channeler could hit Mat Cauthon with a projected rock, or a bolt of lightning, or a fireball, and his amulet wouldn’t make said projectile dissipate. The weave conjures lightning; lightning is not itself a weave. Granted, it could be different with balefire (i.e. balefire itself is a continuous weave rather than a conjured substance; some have theorized that may be the case) but that seems unlikely to me.

    Additionally, if I remember correctly, Moghedien moves her balefire stream when she attacks Nynaeve in ACoS, so if one does miss one could presumably move the stream after the target. A bit reckless, but it could make a big difference, possibly hitting the target.

  • Longshanks

    Much as it pains me to see Moiraine go, I can’t see a realistic way for her to escape this fight alive. Kylar takes it. Ruidiculously over-powered he might be, but at the end of the day, Moiraine’s only method of survival is the One Power. Fighting a skilled assassin with the ability to neutralize any sort of magical attack, she would not be able to survive long enough to bring Balefire into play (even if it would work – which is by no means a foregone conclusion).

  • Lets not forget that a big part of Kylar’s training was to take out magic users. He took out many powerful magic users in his world, some whom I think might be better or equal to Moraine(Spelling?)

    The Ka’Kari absorbs any type of energy, I believe, so Balefire would still be absorbed, even if you don’t consider it to be magic.

    I’m sorry, but Balefire is the deciding factor here, and even if it did work, Kylar would most likely dodge it, seeing how it has to target something. Kylar is wicked fast, it would be a peice of cake for him to dodge it.

    Kylar has this, there really isn’t anyway to say he doesn’t. It all comes down to who you personally want to win. I’m hoping Kylar does. If he were going up against someone that could beat him, I wouldn’t vote, because I wouldn’t be able to not vote for Kylar.

  • Chris (a different one)

    I”m unsure of how the Black would handle trying to absorb Saidar, it is truly and utterly alien compared to the magic of its world. When weaves are used the power is not used up, it then returns to the source. And the magic of the WoT is very specific: A man CANNOT see weaves of Saidar and a women weaves of Saidin, except in the one case where there is a link that includes both genders, in which case the one weaving, and everyone linked to them, can see both powers at work, but only so long as the link lasts.

    This makes it likely that Kylar would have… issues trying to find and counter weaves. In fact, Rand was struggling in a fight against a user of Saidar because he couldn’t see the weaves being thrown at him, and had to wait until the absolute last second to counter them, though he was admittedly not very good at that point.

    Balefire is useful when the target doesn’t expect it, is distracted, or is too close to dodge. In making a killing blow kylar would get too close, and weaves can be prepared in advance, as Moiraine knows. Simply wait until the last possible moment, when he is but an inch away and release the weave. The balefire then undoes his fatal blow. Risky, but the kind of thing Moiraine would, and has, done.

  • Sam

    Terez, g8 to see your still lurking.

  • Metacognition

    @Yocxl: ANSWERING TO SOME SPOILERS, SO THERE WILL LIKELY BE SPOILERS AS WELL

    What you are talking about are effects of weaves. The reason Matt was capable of being hit was because the effect of the weave was to release the projectile. The weave didn’t target him as much as the rock. Same with lightning.
    There are really only two things you’d have to convince me on to believe that balefire is a product of a weave rather than a weave itself and those are:
    1- The sweep. As you said (and it’s been done in more than just ACoS, my example with Nynaeve in Tanchico as well, for example), you can move the weave around. It’s more dangerous to the pattern that way, but it can be done. The reason this is important is because it can no longer be an effect of the weave at that point. Can you change the direction of an already thrown fireball?
    2- Pin point accuracy. At one point, Rand shoots smaller weaves of balefire, stopping them from going any further than his intended target (iirc, it was either in the stone of tear or before he faced Rahvin… I’m trying to find the specific instance I’m thinking of). That wouldn’t be possible unless it’s a weave, based on the arguments made so far. If it travels at light speed, it wouldn’t be something you could stop at a certain distance because it would have already traveled past the point you thought to stop it at. Also, if it released by the weave, it would continue on and on and on, since nothing would stop it except cullendar.

    Those are the two points I’d have to be convinced of to consider it not a weave itself. As far as targeting goes, far too often have numerous members of the forsaken dodged balefire for me to think that it’s as A: instantaneous as stated and B: undodgeable. Even with a sweep, a smart character could dive underneath it (Nynaeve) or leap over it, or even out run it, as it’s based on the caster’s line of sight. I can’t think of a single person casting balefire behind them, can you?

  • Tim

    First up, a very, very good writeup, great work Abyss (although I’m a little confused at the inclusion of the Blue Ka’kari – Kylar doesn’t have it, and if he did, I’m not sure it could do that, or why he’d do that instead of just sucking all Damodred’s blood from her body in an instant, the one thing we know the blue can do. But that’s not really important)

    I’m not going to pretend to know enough about Moiraine to say if she’d beat Kylar or not, though from everything I’m seeing here, it looks like Kylar probably could counter everything she could throw at him (that is, I’m yet to see anything in the comments Kylar couldn’t get around). But, it depends on the day I guess. Kylar has messed up seemingly simple assassinations before (although generally when he was much younger). These things happen. And in some of the cases it might depend on how much Kylar knew about Moiraine in advance. I’m not voting in this one, just because I don’t know enough about Moiraine and her world, and even from what I do know it seems like it could go either way. I’m still leaning towards Kylar though, but I probably always will.

  • ScarUponTheSky

    Voting for Moiraine. As said in previous battles, women in sci-fi/fantasy get crapped on and it would be very badass to see a strong, female sci-fi/fantasy character win. I’ve started reading up on Kylar and have also read comments by fans on here and given the different universe and how magic works in each I strongly believe that this Black couldn’t devour Moiraine’s Balefire. Who knows for sure though?

    The only thing I truly hope for is that the best person truly wins, not the most popular.

  • Jerry

    @meta

    In reference to the two points you need to be convinced on:
    1) Balefire is most definitely an effect of the magic and not the magic itself. Let me explain. Saidar is a magic that Aes Sedai use. They use it by making weaves. The weaves are the forces of fire, water, earth, wind and spirit. If Moiraine were to attempt to bring those weaves, say wind to hold Kylar with, the kakari would absorb the weave of air, since the air is the magic that she is weaving. If she used fire then the kakari could absorb that because fire is a weave. Balefire is created from fire and spirit but it is not either. It is akin to lightning which is created by a weave and then released. Balefire is described as a bar of light, not of fire. Balefire cannot be considered the magic for it is not any of the five powers, water, fire, spirit, air or earth. It is created by the weave. Thus the kakari cannot stop it because it is a weapon and not the magic itself.

    2) When balefire is used, it is visually described as a bright light. Thus it moves at the speed of light. Nynaeve categorically did not dodge the balefire. The person who attacked her was disturbed and her aim was slightly off, thus she missed her target. Of this it is absolutely clear if you go back and reread that section. The fact that you can move balefire in an arc does not prove that it is the magic and not an effect. If I have a machine gun, I can spray bullets in an arc. The bullets are not the gun, they are the weapon that the gun releases. Similarly, Moiraine could fire/send balefire in an arc because she can create a continuous weave and keep releasing it just depending on her strength/skill in the power.

    3) While balefire travels at the speed of light, its strength is limited by the power of the person channeling it. Rand is able to limit how much power he puts into a balefire weave so that it does not continue through its target. He does that consciously so that he would not accidently destroy things or persons he did not intend to because balefire could go through one thing and keep going. It does not do so indefinitely because the distance it can travel and the amount of things it can penetrate through depends on the power the one channeling puts into the weave. You are confusing the speed of the balefire (lightspeed) with the power of the balefire. The speed is inherent because it is described visually as a bar of light. The force of the balefire is what determines how far it can travel and how many things or persons it could burn through. A balefire attack can be used to destroy one person or an entire city, it depends on the power behind it. As I said, it is not possible to dodge balefire if the person aims properly, but of course if the target is moving it becomes much more difficult. However as has been pointed out, if you send the balefire in an arc, you could move it over an area faster than a person could move.

    Could Kylar kill Moiraine, yes of course. Would the kakari stop balefire? No chance in hell.

    Also, since the write up gave Kylar every possible powerful tool, Moiraine could have the use of even more powerful angreal and sangreal that are in the white tower. There are also ter’angreal that would allow her to identify other ter’angreal (objects that use magic or are made of magic) such as the black kakari. She would then be able to identify Kylar instantaneously because she would be able to sense the kakari. This would negate his invisibility and his ability to sneak up on her. By making the setting the White Tower it makes it very probable that Moiraine would have extra magical tools at her disposal since the largest selection of these magical tools are kept at the White Tower.

    Last point, while cuendillar is immune to balefire that is a specific magical creation and the only thing that does this. Cuendillar was created to be unbreakable. It does not absorb balefire. The nature of cuendillar is that it cannot be destroyed. The nature of the kakari is not the same. Its ability is to absorb magic and other things it is not designed to be an unbreakable material that cannot be destroyed so to give it the properties of cuendillar is not possible because that is not its nature.

  • Terez

    Gah, is every WoT fight in cage match going to be all about balefire, every time? It’s tedious, kinda like those stupid ‘who would beat who in a fight’ threads that pop up on Dragonmount every few weeks. I HATE those threads…

  • theAKpal

    First off, love your write-up, Abyss. Nice Job!

    Second, since the Suvudu people asked, and I had the inclination – the writing for my novels don’t seem to be going to well at the moment – I’ve put together my own version of the match. As usual, I’ve taken some, uh, let’s say…liberties with the characters and works.

    ****SPOILERS INCLUDED******

    It was time to finish this game.

    I’d never really thought much of the gods, or God as Elene believed, my lost wife and soulmate. I never figured them to take an active part in our lives. That is, until five weeks ago when these cage matches, as they’re supposedly called, started up.

    Since then, I’ve been tossed and warped onto different worlds, different realities. I’d picked up some book smarts while in Count Drake’s care, and I’d lived on the streets as a youth, so I wasn’t lacking in common sense, but nothing prepared me for the reality of different realities.

    Growing up, I’d experienced severe hardship. It wasn’t until I convinced Durzo to take me under his wing that I felt as if I’d ever have a future. He’d moved on, having been given a second chance at a normal life, as normal as life can be for a 700 year old wet boy and former immortal.

    He’d given up his immortality for me, in the form of the black ka’kari, a sentient being in its own right. He’d moved on and left me as the Night Angel, a manifestation of Vengeance, Justice, and Mercy. His last act as my mentor was helping save our world from a fake goddess, Khali, really just Trace Avagulania utilizing the white ka’kari’s power to its utmost. We’d taken care of her, turned her into just another deader.

    Now, it was just me, and Vi, a beautiful girl no doubt, but I’d yet managed to fully come to grips with Elene’s death these many years past. If I could just see Vi and not remember the connection the three of us shared, I might’ve been able to consummate/re-consummate our marriage…it’s complicated. But, these last few weeks have been hectic, to say the least. Just when we started making some progress, I’d been split from her, and, it appears, the only way back is to complete what was started.

    A good wetboy is more than just the skills he (or she) brings to the table. There’s a reason our victims are called deaders, and not targets. It’s because we plan. And, for the last two weeks, I’d done a lot of planning.

    At first, I was unable to make sense of what was happening. All I knew was that I’d been forced to kill, and I wasn’t getting paid for it. It was either kill or be killed, and I wasn’t happy about it. I wasn’t going to allow myself to die. I wasn’t going to lose another of my friends.

    The thing about the black ka’kari is that its bearer has the potential for immortality. It provides a way to be reborn after death. It provides a way to breathe life back into the bearer’s dead body; life, at the expense of another life, the life of a loved one.

    My position changed when I was set against Erevis Cale. He made me realize there may be more to these matches than mere fighting for fighting’s sake. He told me about some Anomander Rake character – Rake as he’s more colloquially known. Cale claimed Rake was the one responsible for the entire mess, and if he wasn’t stopped, all worlds would come to an end.

    Of course I didn’t believe him at first. He was shadowy and mysterious, literally. He was forthright and forthrighteous in his beliefs, practically fanatical – qualities I’d learned to be weary of. But, as he died at my hands – an unforeseen event; he had me outclassed in every way, I shouldn’t have made it past him without the loss of a life – I saw the truth of the matter in his eyes, through the lens of the black. At least the truth as he saw it.

    Before I was pulled out of his world I had the chance to review his notes, as detailed as any I’d ever made (or even seen). He had an entire room devoted to his research. The walls were covered with maps and diagrams, brackets and associations. There were books, tomes, and scrolls laid out on bookshelves. Their quality was apparent and of the highest order, and written in the most perfect script, uniform and without variation; yet, impersonal, as if not even written by a mortal hand.

    From what I was able to gather, the evidence for Cale’s belief that Rake was to blame stemmed from a few facts. One, Rake was so powerful, he was practically a god on his own world. He was so strong, declared gods stayed out of his way. Two, he was nearly 300,000 years old. Who else but a 300,000 year old god-like being would have the power to force so many other strong and powerful beings to do his bidding? Besides, living that long has got to get boring after a while…oh, gods/God, am I going to live to be that old some day? I can’t imagine what it’ll be like. Third, his nature was chaos and darkness. There’s not much more chaotic than throwing people from different worlds/realities into a pot and forcing them to fight each other. Four, he wields a sword (Dragnipur) capable of trapping its victims soul’s for eternity, supposedly on a different plane of existence, something like a different reality one could say.

    I’ll admit, this Rake guy sounded formidable, and frightening; I don’t say things like that lightly. I decided I’d carry on Cale’s work to rid us of Rake, but before that, I had to get through a one Granny Weatherwax. Cale figured it was a foregone conclusion that he’d be facing her next, despite her being involved in a match at that very moment.

    Cale’s work-up on Granny was incomplete, and as ambiguous as she was. He didn’t know much, but what he did know was that, realistically, she’d be practically unbeatable. However, she was a nice old lady, very hospitable and pleasant to be around. She was fond of conversation, tea, and biscuits. And, she was as irritated about this whole mess as Cale was. Maybe more so, she’d apparently burned down an arena she’d been set to fight in, just to make a point.

    Cale’s prediction was accurate, Granny had won her match, and, true to form, met with me for tea and biscuits during ours. In the end, I beat her, but not before we’d had a chance to chat. I hate to admit it, but that was another battle I don’t think I should’ve won. I honestly think she threw the match.

    Despite Rake’s and Moraine’s match taking place at the same time as ours, Granny knew Moraine would win. She straight up told me so. She said that some forces are beyond our control, and that the most powerful and seemingly invincible people can fall to them. I could tell it saddened her.

    But, that wasn’t all she told me. She’d also told me that her and Rake were old friends, and that she knew for a fact he wasn’t behind these matches, he was a victim himself. And, when she said old, I had the impression she meant really, really, old.

    It wasn’t until after my match with Granny was over that I understood what happened. She wasn’t exactly fighting with me. She was grooming me for my next battle.

    Which brings me back to the gods/God I initially mentioned. They were the ones truly behind this tournament of sorts. Cale had one thing right: who but the gods/God would have ability to enforce the event?

    It seems that the gods from Rake’s world, the Dark One from Moraine’s world, and bad guys from all over, were conspiring to remove Rake and so many of the other people from existence, heroes I should say, because as I’d found out from Cale (and confirmed from Granny), nearly every single one of the participants was a force for good, and the main opposition to the forces of evil taking over in their respective worlds/realities.

    After mine and Granny’s match, I understood that I was being left to take care of the Dark One, that my unique abilities were exactly what was needed to defeat him, and, that she’d effectively taken out a contract on him. It wasn’t my duty to defeat Moraine, she was as much a victim as any of us, and undeserving of the final judgment. But, the Dark One, yes, he was oh so deserving of a visit by The Night Angel.

    So, after I hunted down and eliminated the Dark One, I was disappointed when nothing happened. No bells, no fireworks, no fanfare, no parade, , not even an award ceremony; nothing to signify I’d won. I was still on Moraine’s world, and the tournament was still under way.

    I know that sometimes I’m a little slow, but it didn’t take me long to figure out that the tournament was like an hourglass, once you turn it over, barring re-flipping it, the sand will continue to run until none remains in the top half. In other words, once the tournament had been started, it couldn’t end until a singular winner emerged. And, technically, the last match was between Moraine and I. I had no choice but to hunt her down. As the saying goes, ‘there can be only one’.

    Now, here I was, standing atop the White Tower, the Aes Sedai’s base-of-operations. It kind of reminded me of the Chantry.

    Why is it that when large groups of Talented women get together and sequester themselves from men, they always seem to do so in these huge white tower-like structures?

    Whatever the answer, I was getting ready to descend into its depths. I’d tracked Moraine here. It wasn’t hard. Everyone knew her. She was a well-respected and high-regarded Aes Sedai. I didn’t want to have to kill her.

    Preparing to infiltrate this den of witches, I wrapped myself in the ka’kari’s invisibility. It was a good thing I did so, because just as I was about to move, a short dark-haired and dark-eyed girl/woman/lady….female appeared on the roof. She was downright beautiful, and seemingly ageless. She wore a ferroniere upon her forehead with a sparkling blue stone at its center. This was Moraine Damodred, there could be no mistaking it. Once again, Cale’s data proved accurate. I’d seen the pictures.

    Come to think of it, it was kind of creepy the way he had them displayed, almost as if enshrined with candles, flowers, and other…trinkets (I really want to know how he got ahold of those panties – for science, of course).

    “Snap out of it,” said the ka’kari.

    Since that one time, I’d learned to listen when the ka’kari speaks, and stifled the heat rising within my loins. It’d been a while. If I make it through this, and I see no reason why I shouldn’t, I think Vi and I need to have a…talk.

    “Kylar, is that you?” Moraine asked in a stern and commanding voice.

    I was not amused. Fortunately, I don’t even think she got her own pun.

    “If it is, we need to talk,” she said.

    Decisions, decisions. Do I take her by surprise and kill her now, or listen to what she has to say?

    I thought about it for a minute and decided I didn’t want to have to kill her if I could avoid it, but that by no means meant I was going to make myself a target. Besides, through the ka’kari, I could tell her body was encased in some form of flowing and seamless Talent. The best way to get to her would be with a ka’kari-coated Retribution.

    I’d learned a few things these past years. One of those things was how to throw my voice. I said, projecting at a point away from me, but not too close to her, “I’m listening.”

    It was the subtlest of movement, but she’d been startled. If not for my expert training, I wouldn’t have noticed.

    Moraine turned towards the sound and spoke, “You understand the position I’m in, don’t you? It’s my duty to guide Rand, the Dragon Reborn, to the Last Battle and defeat the Dark One. I can’t let anything get in our way.”

    “Well, it’s a good thing that I’ve gone ahead and killed the Dark One for you, then,” I responded.

    “You couldn’t have. You’re not the Dragon Reborn, and the prophecy clearly states that the Dragon Reborn will be the one to face the Dark One in the Last Battle.”

    “I can’t say I know anything of this prophecy you speak, but where I come from, I’ve already managed to rewrite prophecy. I don’t know why you don’t think it can be done here.”

    “Because, it can’t. It’s prophecy.”

    “See, that’s one of the problems with you fanatical types. If it doesn’t fit into your preconceived mold of how things should work, you don’t believe it can exist. I’m telling you, I took a contract on your Dark One, inadvertently as though it may have been, but a contract nonetheless, and a wetboy always fulfills his contract.”

    “I don’t believe you. This has to be some sort of a trick. You’re obviously one of the Dark One’s agents, a darkfriend; possibly even a new Forsaken.”

    I tried to say I’m not, but she never gave me a chance, launching an unprovoked attack of some kind and disrupting my Talent-induced vocal projection. It was a bright ray of something/nothing, for as it travelled everything it passed ceased to exist. From Cale’s notes, I concluded it had to be Balefire, the one thing he wasn’t sure he could counter. Balefire has the ability to erase anything it touches from existence. Not just existence, but from having ever existed. It burns the target from the Pattern. I couldn’t totally grasp my head around the concept, despite Cale’s voluminous and meticulous notes. What I did grasp, however, is that if I were smart I wanted no part of it.

    I was shocked. According to Cale, balefire is the weapon of last resort on this world. It’s so dangerous that with one misdirected use, the entirety of their reality could unravel. The chances were low, but it was still a chance. I couldn’t understand how anyone would willingly use such a weapon. It’s bad enough that for every time I die, one of my loved ones dies, but if for every time I died, every one of my loved ones could die, I’d give up my lifestyle in a heartbeat. I couldn’t bear that responsibility.

    But, here she was, throwing around balefire like it was going out of style. She must honestly think I’m a Forsaken. I can’t think of any other reason why she’d use it.

    “I’m not with the Dark One,” I said with a projection somewhere else.

    She fired more balefire.

    “Really, I’m not. Stop doing that. Are you trying to destroy the world?” I asked.

    She fired more balefire, and said, “Show yourself, darkfriend, so that I may put an end to you.”

    From what I understood, her control of the weaves, as they call them, allow her far more options than balefire. And, just as I thought that, so must have she, because the next attack took a different form. A gust of wind rushed out from her in all directions. It hit me hard, threatening to toss me off the roof like a rag doll. Instinctively, I reached out with my talent and anchored myself to the roof before falling to my death.

    Her senses were sharp, because she noticed the chunk of rock gouged out by my grapple-like appendage almost immediately.

    “There you are,” she said, and balefired my phantom hand.

    It hit, and the hand disappeared completely. It was an odd sensation, remembering something that I couldn’t feel having existed. Fortunately, I was prepared for her attack and had begun moving already, casting multiple phantom hands out in many directions. She could only hit one at a time, and I could keep making more…I think. Does having a Talent-created object erased preclude me from making a new one, or just that one? But, are they all different every time I make them, or are they like real limbs, just in phantom form and there’s a limited amount? I didn’t plan on testing the limits. This had already gotten way out of hand.

    She must’ve noticed all the potential targets and determined she didn’t have the endurance to hit them all. Cale’s notes had made note of the tiring effects of channeling, particularly balefire. She’d chosen a new tactic.

    “I see the reports I received on you were accurate to some extent. It appears as though you are a man who can channel. Let’s make a deal. If you give yourself over to our care and tell us everything you know about the Dark One and your fellow Forsakens’ plans, I’ll let you live,” Moraine said, cancelling the gale-force.

    It was a mistake, one I took full advantage of. That’s the difference between a wetboy and the average person. We don’t pause. We won’t hesitate. Once we decide to kill, people die. Again, it’s why we call them deaders and not targets. Sadly for Moraine, I’d determined there was no reasoning with her. I’d tried that route and it didn’t work out.

    Using the ka’kari, my talent enhancements, and my trained reflexes and skills, I was behind her before she’d finished her sentence. She’d been smart enough to leave the flowing protection of air about her body, but that made no difference to me. It didn’t even slow me down; or, should I say it didn’t even slow down the ka’kari covered Staff of Law, Retribution, as I drove it into her back, and out through one of those perfect breasts.

    “This didn’t have to happen, Moraine. I killed the Dark One for you, and everybody. All you had to do was surrender and acknowledge me the winner, and we both could’ve gone back to our lives. Me, to live out the rest of my days doing whatever, and you, to live out the rest of your days with Lan. It’s a shame that stubborn Aes Sedai attitude had to get in the way.”

    Coughing and spitting up blood, Moraine asked, “Did you really kill the Dark One?”

    “I did. I promise.”

    “How?”

    “My ka’kari is good for many things, one of those it’s particularly fond of, and is inherent to its nature, is devouring. In the same way I used it to devour whatever protective ward you had swirling about your person, I used it to destroy the Dark One.”

    “But, the Dark One hadn’t freed himself from his prison yet. How’d you get to him?”

    “I’m sorry, that’s my fault for not explaining properly. The ka’kari can devour ANYTHING. That balefire of yours isn’t the only thing capable of directly affecting the Pattern. I simply removed the Dark One from it.”

    As the last of Moraine’s life slipped away, I knew I’d won. I knew we’d won. And, I’d hoped Moraine died in peace.

  • Chris (No.3)

    @Jerry Now you’re arguing another viewpoint. A fireball is formed, sent moving towards the target and the weave stops there. Balefire can be moved about a bit like a laser. Because there is continued control over the beam, there still must be some magic controlling it and thus it is like linked to the weave in some way. Either way, balefire is still at least partly energy, since light (and possibly heat) energy is being produced. Light and heat are what the mages in NAT use to fuel their magic and it is also what the ka’kari best absorbs.
    The ka’kari was, like Cuellindar (sp), created to be unbreakable. Curoch and Iures can damage the ka’kari because they were designed to do so. Cuendillar absorbs any magic used against it to make it stronger. The ka’kari can do a similar thing, instead storing the magic and releasing it again offensively. (I know way too much about the series.)
    I don’t think Kylar should have had the blue in the write-up (although it added great entertainment value- kudos Abyss.) It’s Kylar vs Moiraine, not NAT universe vs Randland. If Moiraine gets all the X’angreal, Kylar should likewise get all 6 ka’kari — something that would make him a God.

    @Metacognition You are on here a LOT. I thought I was addicted to this site, but you’re appearing every second comment.

  • Metacognition

    @Jerry:
    You ALMOST (okay, not quite, but it was fun to hope, eh? 😉 ) had me.
    I understand the concepts you’re using for balefire through your 3 points (though there are flaws in that, which I’ll bring up later), but you really lost me when you went into the rest and I’ll start there before moving on to the questions I have on your points.
    First off, I think you are confusing training with equipment. The only equipment that Kylar brings to the fight is the Ka’kari (excluding mundane objects). Kylar is a trained killer. As stated in the books, assassins have targets, wetboys have deaders (because once the contract is taken, it’s a given that their subject will die). To try to take the Ka’kari from him would be like reducing Moraine to a beginning novice level. It would be like trying to remove her understanding of the Game of Houses to remove Kylar’s knowledge of poisons.
    If you’re talking about Abyss’ write up with the addition of the blue ka’kari… You’re splitting hairs. There have been MULTIPLE write ups within the comments that STILL have Kylar winning and there’s a reason for that. Abyss didn’t write the blue in as anything other than a plot point. There are plenty of ways that Kylar could have achieved the same goal. To get back on the point though; 1- you’d have to show that Moraine had some knowledge of the ter’angreal in the first place (difficult considering they’re almost never studied and Moraine has spent much of her time outside the tower). 2- can two angreal/sangreal work at the same time? She already has one and I can’t recall a time when 2 were used to augment one channeler at once.
    Second, Cuendillar. There is nothing that says any which way whether it absorbs or deflects balefire directed against it, just that it is immune to it’s effects. So far, no one has tried to channel balefire at cuendillar (in that right, it’s like Nynaeve with stilling, no one has questioned it). The ONLY real source we have for destroying it is the Dark One’s touch and MY theory is that it couldn’t be destroyed by that without absorbing it (again, only my thoughts). Either way, since these cage matches bring two contestants together from different worlds, if you only hold to the precepts of one world, then someone will always have “home turf” advantage. Along those lines, Moraine wouldn’t be able to touch the source if she were in Kylar’s world and thus lose. On the other hand, in Moraine’s world, the Ka’kari couldn’t devour any of the weaves and he’d lose. It has to be a balance between the worlds and to do that effectively, balefire (that can only be blocked by one thing) and the Ka’kari (that can only be blocked by one thing) should be counted of equal power.

    Sorry, that was longer than expected, but I hope I’ve made my point on those at least. The questions I have about why you think balefire is still an effect are these:
    Your first point is… not trying to be so blunt, but insane. Almost all weaves require a second component. Would “fire from the earth” (aka lava) not hurt him due to the fact that it was woven with earth and fire? Would mud not trap him when created with earth and water? The thing with the weaves is that they all work together. I’m also curious as to which SINGLE one of the powers you’d use to “call lightning?”
    Not going to argue with your 2nd point, based on your ideas, I could see that entirely.
    Your third point is where you falter though, IMO. I was under the impression that the POWER of the balefire determined how far back in time it would go, NOT it’s distance. So far I’ve seen nothing that could control it’s distance if it’s an all powerful shot, that doesn’t stop because it hits something, and while I’m willing to consider your argument for why the beam could spread, that takes into account far more implications to WoT than I’m wanting to go into here.

    @Chris(No.3): It’s been a llllooooonnnnnggggg start to my week. Layoffs are a, pardon my french, but a bitch. I needed something to kill the time and what better way than to share what knowledge I can of books I’ve read between looking for new work in this economy….
    (Please don’t turn this thread about economics. I’m here to argue fiction, not everything else)

  • RyanB

    how the hell kylar get the blue ka kari and im sure the blue dont work like that. well not without a master and kylar bonded the black. the only reason it would go crazy if it was in its element. but lets go team Kylar

  • freaker

    on the subject of Metacognition @Chris

    It ain’t rare :p Or is it? Dunno!

  • Shade

    @Chris, Hell, I appreciate someone who knows both sides. I’ve tried to read all the comments before making my decision. Some of the writeups were a bit much, but from what I know, it looks fair.

    @everyone else: From everything I’ve gathered, its one way or the other. Either the kakari devoures or balefire wins. Considering balefire is more of a one trick pony, I’m going with Kylar.

  • The Ka’Kari doesn’t just devour magic. It really doesn;t matter if Balefire is truly magic or not, jerry, it can still be absorbed. Anyway, meta answered your above post better than I could.

  • Farmer Monkey

    I think the balefire “magic or not” argument is irrelevant. The ka’khari could consume the weaves used to create the balefire, if not the balefire itself.

    Kylar is kind of the ultimate anti-mage. Lan, Perrin, Mat, any of the Aiel, etc, would be better WoT matchups for Kylar. Like I said in an earlier post, he’s much more vulnerable to death by plain steel than to any magical death (he’s an excellent melee fighter as well, but so are the aforementioned). Moraine is a badass, definitely, and I can understand why she’s in the championship, but she horribly ill-suited for this matchup.

  • Abyss

    Thanks for the various comments and love, especially the love. Glad you enjoyed and that i appear to have managed not to enrage all of WoTdom this time 🙂 …

    One note on the blue ka’kari thing… as Metacog’ and others mentioned upthread, it was a plot device, and a sort of easter egg for NATfans… not an attempt at canonically rewriting Weeks’ series. Having Kylar set a barn on fire to distract the entire White Tower would have been lame. This was way more fun.

    Oh, and if it had been Rake v Kylar, the ‘pre-battle’ was going to be Durzo vs the Andii mage-assassins… alas…

  • WeStandForSomething

    @theAKpal – Nice write up. I especially liked how you recounted the events of the tournament from the beginning from Kylar’s perspective. Kinda reminded me of the “My name is Desmond Miles” sequence at the beginning of the Assassin’s Creed games.

  • WoT4Ever

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  • WoT4Ever

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  • Really great write up this time Abyss, I enjoyed this much more then the last ones. I would give a write up a go myself, however, I don;t have nearly enough knowledge about WoT.

    Kylar for the win!

  • Ashayden

    Wow, I don’t know who’s going to be more irritated with that wall of Balefire: the NATers or the WOTers…actually I take that back. Probably the WOTers. That probably annoys them more.

  • Kvothe the Arcane

    Ouch lets hop he isnt a representative of the WoT community.

  • Kvothe the Arcane

    Hope**

    Great write up abyss.

  • WoT4Ever

    Nobody in the WoT fanbase would ever have issue with that. That’s the reason we will always win! The WALL says it all! There’s no “rock, paper, scissors” in this game… Balefire trumps everything and anything!

  • zeo868

    if you read the night angel trilogy you would know kylar is immune to all magic, that lady has no chance

  • Dicklover

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    Annoying as shit, isn’t it?

  • Dicklover

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idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!

    WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!
    WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!WoT4Ever is an idiot!!!

    Suck it!!

  • *Apologies for possible double posting…tried the first with links and it maybe went to spam*

    Has anyone else noticed that Moiraine has lost her last three matches as per the write up predictions? Namely:

    1. Jardir beat her.

    2. Kelsier beat her.

    3. Rake beat her

    Even in this write up, it’s pretty clear that Moiraine can be killed before she even knows what’s happening. It’s only the decency of her opponents which keeps her alive. The only place where she won was the vote section. In addition, all of the fan write ups in the comments section have her lose as well.

    The pattern (forgive the pun!) is obvious to me. Moiraine is essentially a weak character who’s buoyed up only by her fanbase.

    I think the rules for voting have to be clarified by suvudu. Namely:

    1. This is NOT a popularity contest (as asserted by lots of WoT fans in the Rake match)

    2. You should vote on who wins on an average – meaning that if A beats B 1 time out of a 1000, that one time does not get to be the decider.

    3. I also think that registration is a must for voting…

    Feedback on observations?

  • Charles

    Loved the write-ups. I’m really excited to read about moiraine now. However, in the situation described, I feel they both die permanently. If balefire really is something that erases existence, then the ka’kari can’t necessarily absorb it. Curoch is a magic sword that doesn’t get eaten, so it is possible that there is a “brand” of magic that affects it. On the other hand, in erasing Kylar, she also erased the only antidote to an unknown toxin. Unfortunately, I can only vote for what I know.

  • WoT4Ever

    Nope! This will be a popularity contest as long as we want it to be a popularity contest… for the same reason that Balefire trumps all other forms of attack.

    Because we say so.

    And since there are more of us than there are any of you, the vote will always go by what we say… So whatever you WISH to believe is irrelevant in the face of the reality of the WoT fanbase. And the 2 points of reality that pertain to this tournament are;

    This is a popularity contest, because we decided it is, an nobody can stop us from making it one.

    Balefire is essentially an automatic win for anyone who can use it, because we decided it is, and nobody can stop us from proving it here in these matches.

  • @WoT4Ever

    I’m beginning to think you’re just trying to make the WoT fans look bad. I mean…there’s no way anyone can be such a big asshole by nature 😀

    Though I voted for Kylar in this and Rake in the previous match, I have nothing against WoT (love the books in fact). So I refuse to believe you’re a representative sample.

    Anyone else?

  • JJmonsterson

    @Bhagwad Jal Park

    I definitely agree with you about Wot4Ever he just seems like he is trying to get people to hate the WoT fanbase

  • bartios

    @ Wot4Ever
    hey dude, stop irritating everybody.

    Kylar would not hesitate to kill moraine if he thought that she had a good chance to kill him. But that’s just my opinion. (not saying anything about the chances of kylar killing Moraine)

  • The Riddler

    @Bhagwad Jal Park

    I am starting to think that same thing I honestly don’t think anybody who actually wanted someone to read WoT (which I would recommend they are great books) and/or get them to vote for Moiraine would act like that it is just stupid and Balefire in all honesty is not a perfect trump card, it can miss, as shown in a fight in the books that was mentioned earlier in the comments

  • WoT4Ever

    You’re all just haters who can’t handle the truth. Don’t cry because I don’t say this stuff nicely like so many of the other WoT fans do while they’re essentially saying the same thing I am.

    You can’t beat Balefire. Period…

    If you can’t handle that, you’re in the wrong place… and hating on me won’t change that.

  • wcarter4

    Wotforever is an obvious troll and I’m not sure what he has against the Wheel of Time series, but I’ve never seen someone so obviously trying to turn people against something and the people who enjoy it.
    I’m a WoT fan and I honestly thing Kylar would win this fight. I thought Rake should have beat her too for that matter, but whatever.
    Lets look at the simple facts.
    1. Moraine is human. She says herself in arrow or crossbow bolt would kill her just as quickly as it would a random faceless mook.
    2. The black ka’kari (while not indestructible like some people claim) doesn’t just absorb magic, it also absorbs light, heat, metal, clothing–basically anything it touches for an extended period of time.
    3. There is nothing stopping Kylar from poisoning her in any myriad of ways (contact posion on a door handle or clothing, needels, food, etc.) A wetboy is supposed to kill and not get caught. Or for that matter he could cloak himself and shoot her in the back.
    4. Even if it did work on him, which is debatable, there is no reason to believe Moraine would resort to balefire before it was too late. Unlike Rand, she understands why its forbidden and isn’t nearly as strong in the power anyway. Fireballs are more Moraine’s speed throughout the books. Those wouldn’t work.

  • wcarter4

    @Wot4Ever
    “You cant beat balefire. Period…”

    Umm sure, tell that Perrin. He’s one of the weakest main characters in the entire series and last time I checked he flat out ignored it in Towers of Midnight when tried to kill him with it during the final showdown with Mesanna.

  • Bradleelee

    @wcarter4: Well said. Unfortunately though while you, and many others who have written here (I even wrote a realtively long post on the first page), have placed these sound arguments on the table for people to clearly read, people are still voting for Moraine. I simply do not understand it. It isn’t that Kylar is unbeatable; far from it. It isn’t that Moraine is weak; she isn’t. This just is not a good match-up for her. Kylar has many counters to almost all of her abilities that lead to a win for him the majority of the times.

    So why are there so many votes going out for her?

  • WoT4Ever

    I have no idea why you people think that a person has to kiss your butt at the same time they’re kicking it… maybe none of you has ever participated in MMA, Basketball, or Football… but trust me, just because I’m tellin it like it is and y’all don’t like it doesn’t make it any less true. Every situation where somebody was able to not get destroyed by Balefire involved EXTREMELY mitigating circumstances… Ones that aren’t involved in these cagematches. In these situations, Balefire wins, period. You guys keep wondering why Moiraine keeps winning and keeps getting so many votes when the answer is right in front of your face. Whether or not you like how I say it makes no difference to the fact that that’s the way it is.

  • Lee Monroe

    Here’s an idea guys! Don’t feed the troll! Ignore its existence and it’ll go away.

    My reply to the Balefire argument will stay the same, it can be absorbed and it can be dodged. Kylar has way to many advantages. At this point, all he’s up against is a normal women. Moraine is out of her league here, it’s like pitting a kitten against a bull-dog, she just doesn’t have a chance in hell.

    Sorry to WoT fans, nothing against them, as I’m sure the books are awesome, but that’s the truth.

  • First, I want to say thank you to Abyss for doing a great write-up. These are really challenging to do well, to not mess up major facts about the series, and to not infuriate the fan-bases. Thanks for taking it on, and for doing it so well. Bravo.
    Second, I just want to appeal to my fans to keep it clean. I would much rather Kylar lose cleanly than have a tainted victory. If you alienate the fan base of Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson (of whom I am one!), you’re not doing me any favors. Heck, I hope those fans give my books a chance! So please, no multi-voting or irritating spam posts. This is a light-hearted, fun contest, and even if Kylar loses… heck, coming in second to a character from one of the most loved fantasy series of all time? That ain’t so bad.
    Third, thank you for all your votes getting me here, and thanks to Suvudu for putting all this together!
    -Kylar’s “dad”

  • B. Reed

    OMG, we need a ‘report as spam’ button for some of you people.

    Just so ya’ll know. Brandon Sanderson just tweeted about the match. That is why Moiraine jumped 150 votes in two minutes. And it will probably continue.

  • WoT4Ever

    As inevitable as the tides…

    @ Brent

    Sorry Brent, I’m sure your boy is really cool and all, but he can’t handle Balefire… nobody can.

  • Terez

    Mr. Weeks, you’re a great guy, but I think trying to keep it ‘clean’ is sort of an exercise in futility even though Suvudu has done their best to make cheating difficult. There’s never any way to know for sure if anyone was cheating (though if you’re paying close enough attention, you can make certain deductions), so every victory is ‘tainted’ by accusations of cheating by those on the losing side. That’s kind of why a lot of people have given up on shooting for ‘clean’ victories; if you win, someone is going to assume you cheated anyway, and if you lose, you’ll always wonder if the other side cheated. Witness the Rake vs Moiraine match. There was (minimal) cheating on both sides, and thus the match stayed neck and neck for three days, but it wasn’t until we promoted the match from legitimate sources (Facebook, Twitter, Tor.com, etc.), garnering over a thousand votes for Moiraine, that the accusations of cheating really started flying.

    It’s for that exact reason that most of us have chosen to take a different view on Suvudu cheating. Either it’s a popularity contest, where the books with the most fans win, or it’s a bunch of really dedicated fans sitting in front of a computer for hours voting by proxy. Is one really better than the other?

    Anyway, cheers. Thanks for being so supportive of Abyss in the face of his apparently grievous canon breaches. 😉

  • @WoT4ever: As a Wot fan, I’ve got to say that your posts have been FAR more annoying to me than any NAT fans posts. Seriously, dude… you’re going to make people think that WoT fans are ALL jerks. Knock it off and keep it reasonable, would you? Light… *smh*

    @Dicklover: You’re no better. Being annoying to show that someone else is being annoying is rather ludicrous.

    As for the match… glad it’s running so close! Looks to get interesting before the end of voting! :o) In fact, it’s made me want to hurry up and finish Beyond The Shadows. I’ll READ it, though… as the reader on the Shadow’s Edge audio was awful and nearly made me quit the series a few times. *nod*

  • @Brent: You’re a classy guy… seriously, thanks for posting here and for being so gracious on Twitter in response to the multiple Tweets in which people tell you that Kylar’s going down. I’m a long-time WoT fan and a fledgling NAT fan and I appreciate your respect for the WoT and its fans.

    That said, I greatly enjoy your writing and look forward to the next book in the Lightbringer series!

  • Jerry

    I am a big Brent fan. I have read NAT and own all of the books. I even have the Black Prism and am a fan of Brent on Facebook. So what I am saying is I am very familiar with NAT and am not just a WOT fan.

    The kakari cannot absorb balefire. Once balefire touches the kakari it ceases to exist before the balefire touched it. Think of this logically. Even if technically the kakari could absorb the balefire, once it is touched by balefire it has ceased to exist before the balefire touched it. Therefore its properties of absorbing the balefire would not come into effect because the kakari would have winked out of existence before it was touched by the balefire thus triggering the absorption properties of the kakari.

    I know the NAT fans don’t like this but this is how balefire works, the kakari cannot absorb it if the kakari has ceased to exist before the balefire touches it!

    Kylar is awesome but Moiraine will win.

  • Vohbo

    See, that’s why you should have kept Granny in. She *knows* she exists, so Balefire would only temporarily slow her down.

  • Taparu

    As some people have said I believe Kylar would win. The only way Moraine would win is if she hit him with balefire. Also in the predicted result write ups Moiraine is using balefire way to much.
    *Spoiler*
    Even facing Lanfear Moiraine didn’t use balefire instead she pushed herself and Lanfear through a portal of sorts.
    *Spoiler*
    btw I’m a WoT fan.
    Also to fellow WoT fans you know well enough Moiraine is fairly weak in the power compared to some Aes sedai and especailly so compared to Rand.

  • SomeLameName

    The one power would be able get past the kakari period. In the books Kylar almost broke it when he used it to block a sword (I think it was a sword, it has been a while and I don’t have the books).
    and i believe balefire would deal with the resurrection/immortal thing. The question becomes can Moirain find Kylar before he gets to her? I for one believe the answer is a defiantly maybe.

  • D.I. Waisanen

    There have been some examples of balefire failing being brought up. This misinformation needs to be cleared up.

    Firstly, the time that Nynaeve supposedly dodged balefire. What wasn’t mentioned was that the balefire in question was being created through a flawed ter’angreal, by a weaker channeler who couldn’t create balefire herself and only knew the basics about it, and the use of said ter’angreal caused a kick that made her shoot wildly with little skill. (This happened towards the end of “The Shadow Rising.”) Moiraine possesses much greater control over her balefire then this.

    Secondly, cuendillar. Cuendillar does not absorb balefire; it reflects it. Cuendillar absorbs every kind of energy directed at it, much like the black ka’kari, but not balefire. Balefire does not destroy cuendillar, because cuendillar is indestructible except to the Dark One, who can warp reality to negate cuendillar’s properties. There was an instance of these two forces coming into conflict, when Rand al’Thor split a weave of balefire at the end of the third book, “The Dragon Reborn” using his cuendillar sword, Callandor. It was not absorbed; it was clearly deflected.

    Thirdly, Perrin. Perrin did not truly stop balefire. He was in the World of Dreams at the time, which he could control with his mind, and this was not reality. Thus, he was able to stop balefire, because it wasn’t really balefire, and it was pretty clearly spelled out that Perrin wouldn’t have been able to do that in the real world. This was in the thirteenth book, “Towers of Midnight.”

    I really think that whether balefire counts as magic or is a weave or not is largely irrevelent. I stand by my stated reason why the black ka’kari could not absorb it: Balefire is not energy, is not matter, is not anything else that the black ka’kari has consumed. It does not burn, it does not break apart, it does not change, it does not reduce to a simpler form. It destroys. Anything it comes into contact with no longer exists, and is burned from the timeline a ways back depending on the power of the weave. If it was just a really powerful energy attack, then I would agree that the BK could absorb it, but it is not. How is the black ka’kari going to overcome a beam that literally unmakes Creation? Frankly, I don’t see “is able to absorb energy and magic” as the kind of defense necessary to withstand balefire.

    I would also like to again call attention to the fact that Moiraine, even if she is physically vulnerable, can simply surround herself in air barriers and only shields designed to block magic and all sorts of harmful attacks and tank Kylar indefinitely. Someone like Rake would have the power to batter down Moiraine’s shields, but not Kylar. Again, how is he going to hurt her with knives, poisons, physical weapons, etc, when she is defended like this and shooting balefire in every direction? True, she’d probably use other methods before resorting to balefire, but once she realized that Kylar could negate her fireballs, it wouldn’t stop her.

  • Jeffrey

    Moiraine would win if she were aware of Kylar at a distance. Kylar would win otherwise. Moiraine has much more stopping power, but she is limited in how quick she can bring it to bear.

    Aes Sedai are not trained for physical combat, and their ability to wield Saidar depends on their living mind. Moiraine is a noble by birth, although that was more than one normal human lifetime ago. Still, she has spent all her long years working with the One Power, and searching for the Dragon Reborn. She relies on her Warder for hand-to-hand combat. Since this contest does not include her Warder, she loses not only his combat abilities, but her mental link to him, which normally quickens her reflexes to those of a combat savvy veteran. So, she would be no quicker than a brilliant noble. Finally, and quite importantly, the Three Oaths would prevent Moiraine from using her mind to access Saidar against another person (not a Darkfriend), until she was in last defense of her life!

    Kylar is a killing machine. His chance of winning would depend entirely on his ability to gain the advantage of surprise. His ability to absorb magic would be of limited use against an Aes Sedai, because they have learned ways to battle using the One Power against those who are not affected by it. Grey Men, Ter’angreals that protect, the Fox Head medallion, etc. What they simply do when confronting someone who can’t be harmed by the One Power directly is manipulate objects to harm or hinder their foes. Kylar might be able to absorb fire, air, or spirit used to harm him. Burning him would not work. Slicing him with whirling blades of air would not work. Dominating him would not work. But, having the earth under his feet swallow him would work. Picking up a hundred arrows with air and having them surround him in a sphere of points would work. Dominating others to interfere with his movements would work. As other people have mentioned, Balefire might work, but it might not, since it is a weave of pure magic striking him. On the other hand, balefire rips the thing it strikes from existance BEFORE being struck, since it burns its target from the pattern of creation itself. Moiraine could empower a particularly strong blast of balefire with as much Saidar as she could hold, and burn any object that Kylar was using to his advantage from creation before he used it, regaining surprise on him.

    My point and bottom line opinion is that whoever was able to surprise the other in this combat would win. If Moiraine surprised Kylar or they were perfectly well aware of each other from a goodly distance, there are a number of things she could do to incapacitate him for all his killing prowess. The Three Oaths would keep her from using the One Power as a weapon against him, however, until it was clear she were battling for her life. So, the combat would probably be a draw, with Kylar incapacitated rather than killed. If Kylar surprised Moiraine, Aes Sedai are no less vulnerable to an instant killing strike than any other mortal creature of flesh and blood.

  • Me

    @wcarter4
    He was in Tel’Aran’Rhiod at the time… his firm grasp on what he perceives as real makes a huge difference there. Outside of Tel’Aran’Rhiod he would no longer exist.

    Kylar is far from invincible… he’s been killed so many times, granted some of them were just because he let himself be killed, but not always.

    @TheAKpal – nice writeup it was entertaining but your facts about balefire are wrong… if it hit kylar in the hand, he wouldn’t just lose his hand, for balefire that small, it would be a couple seconds of his body seeming to change colors and then disappear completely. Inanimate objects only lose the parts hit, but living things when hit are completely undone, even if it was just a hair.

    The fight here could have been a really good fight, much more even than the Rake fight should have been. Kylar is quick, but he’s also a little headstrong and arrogant. He didn’t consider the value of losing his life until he lost the only person he loved. After that he probably wouldn’t care one way or another if he died again since there isn’t anyone left that he really cares about, so if he dies again, oh well. When he didn’t care about dying (because he can just resurrect infinitely) he was brash and impulsive. However he is very well trained and if he retains his cool, there is a lot of tricks he has that could work against someone like Moiraine.

    Assuming both meet on equal footing.

    Moiraine has more tricks than just balefire and weaves. If the Ka’Kiri absorbs her weavings she’d move very quickly (since Mat’s foxhead medalion absorbs her weaves) to a new strategy, one she already knows from the foxhead, of using weaves to move objects like rocks. She’s not weak in the power and she does have a relatively strong angreal in her possession, and access to sa’angreal if we grant her permission from The Amyrlin and/or the Hall for this competition. There are a lot of options both sides have since neither is omnipotent and I think fairly well balanced.

    I think a lot of people posting on here are upset that Rake lost in the votes and are trying to retaliate against her claiming Kylar could easily beat her, and having read both series, I find it hard to believe that the battle would be one-sided in any way, shape or form.

    She wouldn’t even need Balefire to beat Kylar like she would have had to use to beat Rake, the battle would come down to which one has the most versatility and skill. They are both very skilled and both very versatile, though I think Moiraine takes the edge slightly having been channeling longer than Kylar was alive, and her having experienced and determined strengths and weaknesses of an opponent you can’t channel against already.

  • Brian

    Here’s the problem with balefire. Its a crutch and a trope. Its an easy way for a GM to say \Rocks fall, everybody dies\. Like people have said in earlier comments, Kylar could poison, shoot from a long distance, sneak, etc. Most of the other battles have had similar options. Bringing balefire as this end-all option is akin to bringing a flamethrower to an agreed upon knife fight. Is it there, sure, but since every comment is about it, the reverse could simply say \Kylar shoots her 4 times in the back with poisoned arrors, she dies”.

  • ed100

    I’m a WoT fan and have just started re-reading them again. I know everyone must be bored of the Balefire argument. But it’s hard to see why so called WoT fans talk about it as if it’s unstoppable. Outside of just dodging it ***SPOILER*** If you read book 3, at the end Rand splits a blast of Balefire in half with Callandor without destroying the sa’angreal. It DOES NOT destroy everything !!

    p.s. I still voted for Moiraine.

  • Shancaldazar

    @ Brent Weeks

    Never really heard of you before (sorry) or your books before this cage match. Have to say there will be a stop at a book store tomorrow for a certain author’s books!

    Second- Two large WoT fan pages just posted to go vote on Facebook, and how the tides change….

    Cheers!

  • Terez

    WOT SPOILERS !!!!!
    WOT SPOILERS !!!!!
    WOT SPOILERS !!!!!
    WOT SPOILERS !!!!!

    @Taparu—Moiraine didn’t use balefire against Lanfear because that wasn’t one of the possible outcomes she saw. There was only one path she could take that gave her any chance of survival, and that’s exactly the path she took. She even set the angreal out where Lanfear could easily find it, because she saw that too. As for that angreal, it makes her a lot stronger than she was before.

  • L Lawliet

    For those of you who said that Moiraine should have more powerful magic objects, just shut it. Moiraine brought a partner to the last match so should Kylar be allowed to bring Durzo with him now??? If she could have more powerful artifacts he could bring a badass with him.

  • Jeffrey

    I believe the most likely outcome of this battle would be a draw.

    Balefire is magic. It is a weave of Fire and Spirit of immense power, beyond most channelers, which burns anything it touches out of creation BEFORE the beam struck. But, if a being had the ability to absorb magic itself, one would presume that even balefire could be absorbed. For instance, one presumes that balefire will not work against anyone wearing the Fox Head medallion in the Wheel of Time.

    Furthermore, Moiraine is Aes Sedai. She is bound by the Three Oaths. She would not be able to use the One Power as a weapon against Kylar until she was in last defense of her own life. Without a warder nearby, her reflexes would be that of a noblewoman of Cairhein. She would be dead before she could bring the One Power to bear.

    On the other hand, nothing would stop Moiraine from using the One Power to affect objects around Kylar. He would not be able to absorb that. The earth could swallow him, boulders could crush him, air could leave his presence and suffocate him, water could fill the space he is in drowning him, fire could burn the surfaces he stands on catching it aflame and burning without magic, and spirit could dominate others to waylay him. And, none of this even speaks to Moiraine’s ability to protect herself against physical damage using Saidar. She could use air to surround herself with ten-thousand swords pointed outward in a perfect sphere from her location and just play porcupine until Kylar went away. If he didn’t she could send those swords all slashing for his juggular at once.

    Clearly, the person who would win in this battle would be the one who gained surprise over the other, or the one who was able to act first. If they were aware of each other and acted at the same time, Moiraine would be constrained by the Oaths to do something non-lethal, which might work to her advantage, since Kylar would just absorb a direct attack. Most likely she would try to immobalize him in air, which he would absorb. If this surprise allowed him to close ranks with Moiraine, she would die. If it was only long enough to get him closer to her and pull weapons, she would know she was in last defense of her life, that the One Power can’t affect him directly, and she would incapacitate him somehow, ending in a draw.

    Unless Kylar is able to lurk and spring when Moiraine doesn’t expect him, I’ll stick to my oinion that it would be a draw, forced on Moiraine by the Three Oaths.

  • ed100

    These are to characters from books. They are NOT real. We cannot know who would win. Just like when 2 people run for an election, you vote for who you think would do the better job on what you know. Without knowing for sure if you were right and if it does turn out bad without knowing if the other candidate would of done a better job. After 11,004 pages, 635 chapters or 4,060,310 words ( or so wikipedia says) WoT fans are going to vote for Moiraine.

  • Kristi Deming

    I’m so tired of people limiting Moiraine to Balefire. She’s far more capable than relying on that one single Weave.

    @ed100

    The reason Callandor stopped Balefire had nothing to do with the sa’angreal, but the fact that Rand was in Tel’aran’rhiod when he did it. Thanks to Perrin in ToM, we learned something that should have been obvious beforehand: the Will of the target person determines if something works in T’a’R. Moghedien was leashed by an a’dam because she “accepted” that it affected her. Perrin unraveled Balefire when it came at him because he refused to accept it would have any affect.
    Rand, in tDR, had no idea what Balefire was, or it’s effects/rules; he simply “parried” the Weave with Callandor the way he would have parried a blow from another sword, reasoning that was an adequate move. Because he was in T’a’R, it worked. I guarantee had he been in the “regular” world, it wouldn’t have happened.
    The only thing that stands up to Balefire that we know of is cuendillar (and Callandor isn’t made of cuendillar.)

  • Kristi Deming

    @Jeffrey People keep bringing up the Three Oaths limiting Moiraine. She is allowed to use Saidar as a weapon to defend her life, and as this is a “death match”, her life is very much in danger, so the Three Oaths wouldn’t constrain her.

  • Metacognition

    *Sigh*
    We’ve been through these arguments before. I’d rather not repeat myself, so please check earlier comments to get what I mean.

  • Backyardbob42

    Let me start by stating that I am a huge fan of both series and have read each at least twice. I agree with some of the comments above that balefire is a bit of a Deus Ex Machina and a crutch that an author could use far too liberally. It has it’s uses in a narrative, but is easily oversused. The same could be said of the black ka’kari’s ability to absorb and devour magic. The best outcome I can envision would be for the black ka’kari to absorb the brunt of the balefire, but be so overloaded by the raw power that it still injures Kylar and at least partially disables the ka’kari’s powers. Thus, Moiraine wouldn’t bother trying it again as it failed the first time, and Kylar would be hobbled by not having the ka’kari to absorb additional attacks by the One Power. Kylar would still have his Talent to fall back on, however, and I think that would give him an edge. Plus, as previously mentioned, his ability to attack from a distance or entirely by stealth. I give it to Kyler (who is an altogether more badass character anyway).

  • Steven

    @abyss Yeah, a barn is way to bland for this…. Although, thinking with ka’kari, you could have make it shoot fire with the red…. lol

    Anyways, I loved it’s use, and great job.

  • Corman

    I am a bit disappointed with this particular cage match. Both characters are both extremely capable and I think that it would have been a lot more…well exciting. I’m bummed that Moiraine had to use Balefire to defeat Kylar, just as I am disappointed that Kylar would have hesitated in just offing the Aes Sedai. It was kind of a silly write up, not saying that I could do any better, but still. A bit dull for the final cage match.

    @Jeffrey Just as a clear up, the fox head medallion did not stop Matt from being killed by Lightening when Rand was invading Caemlyn to fight….I wanna say Rahvin but I don’t remember which forsaken. So it would be fair to say that the medallion has limits, and Balefire would probably burn Matt out from existence. Same to say, even though Kylar has the black kakari, it was still made by a human and therefore is not limitless. So again, even though it can absorb magic power, it probably wouldn’t be able to stand up against balefire.

  • theAKpal

    @westandforsomething: Thanks!

    @me: Thanks, and not true. Maybe I failed to accurately describe the situation, but I never had Kylar hit with balefire. If you’ve read the books, you’re aware of the ‘hands’ Talented people can make out of magic. It was one of these hands that I had destroyed by balefire. In itself this may not be entirely accurate, as I have balefire destroying the analogical equivalent of a weave, and I do not know if this is possible. I’ve only read the WoT books once and it’s been a while since the last one came out.

  • Sadly, for me, this is a case of voting against someone (really disliked the Night Angel books) as opposed to voting for someone (haven’t yet read Wheel of Time).

  • PapaCaZo

    The problem with everyone’s comments about arrows and such is that very few Aes Sedai are ever killed by arrows. Their warders are one reason why, but most of them walk around with weaves set up to protect or warn of such attacks. Kylar would know this, and would consider the approach only briefly, if at all. One does not simply kill demi-gods with arrows nor does one simply sneak up on an Aes Sedai.

    Given that, I think this suvudu write-up is pretty well done. Kylar is using surprise, distraction, and information overload to his advantage. Moiraine has had very little time to think, she had been concentrating on the water first, the danger to the tower second, her captured sisters third, and then she’s made to deal with a knife to her neck, the suvudu cage match rules, and the very real possibility of death. This is the best way to gain advantage over anyone other than Aes Sedai, unfortunately. The test they must pass to become Aes Sedai is considerably more challenging than what Moiraine is facing here both physically, mentally, emotionally, and in terms of having to deal with multiple things at the same time.

    Now on to Balefire. Is it a cheap move? Maybe. Is it the only thing that makes sense? Yes. Why? Because Moiraine knows that she has to deal with Kylar not only right now but before the blue ka’kari came into effect (as this is something alien to her world which the One Power – as she knows how to wield it – may not be able to deal with). So long as Moiraine can complete and release the weave before Kylar can fully thrust that knife into her throat (assuming this thrust causes instant death as opposed to a rapid death via loss of blood), Moiraine will win.

    So the only question that remains is: what’s faster? A knife thrust or Moiraine’s weaving time for Balefire? Remember that the thrust began after Kylar said, “Last chance,” and the weaving began well before that.

    I vote Moiraine.

  • Darthcaz

    I’m just going to take issue with the “Girls often get a bum rap in SF/F” comment under Morraine’s advantages. In every fantasy or sci-fi series I’ve read, women have been pivotal heroes and strong characters. It’s a very arbitrary and subjective comment to place under the official headings.

  • Darthcaz

    My apologies, *Moiraine’s…

  • Rand Therin

    LOL The BEATING WILL NOW COMMENCE!!!
    LOL My captcha was ASKETO CUNT

  • ta’veren

    Why Moiraine? There were so many better channelers, for the light and shadow. And Balefire? All the time? Thats a no-no…. Moiraine Sedai would have a few other tricks up her sleve for sure. But in all seriousness, why not Lanfear, or Moghidean? So much nastier and more powerful than Moiraine Sedai.

  • Shadow’sBane

    wow!
    woke-up and saw that the comments have gone Mad…

    @WoT4Ever got stuck in a BALEFIRE loop! Dude try not use Balefire on yourself, it can be really annoying.
    @DickLover did get a punishment from your school teacher to write that 100 times?
    that was equally annoying.

    @Ed100
    Callandor Didn’t deflect that Balefire, it was Rand, and it was because they were in the Tel’anath’roid(T’A’R) , and in T’A’R the only things that are real are those which you accept to be real, Rand wished to deflect balefire and in T’A’R that’s really means everything.
    and yeah Balefire is not key to everything, it Expels the objects from the Creation…its not a weapon to be used against all opponents…..way to risky.
    i too find it irritating to limit Moiraine and Many WoT channelers to Balefire….

  • Shadow’sBane

    @All
    WoT4Ever is a Troll and a A**hole, he is just trying to Make WoT fans look Bad.

  • Chris (a different one)

    As has been said, while balefire is impressive, the One Power from the WoT is capable of all sorts of things, including stealing all the air from a room, and removing all of the blood from someones body instantly (and even replacing it with another substance, which is of course fatal, but that was the point).

    Most channelers, even Moiraine, aren’t very creative, but they know enough that Kylar isn’t fighting some standard DnD mage, he’s fighting someone with enough indirect attacks that the Black would have serious issues trying to keep up.

    I’m not really sure who would win, simply because both characters are good in their own right, and as usual magic systems have… issues when they hit one another.

  • Rhys

    Okay, for the person who commented that it is a race between Her weave speed and Kylar thrusting the knife into here heart, remember that there was a point in Book 2 of the Night Angel Trilogy (SPOILER) That Kylar claimed to be able to See/Sense the exact moment that someone can draw upon their power. Also not to sound like a huge NAT fan here but the only things that the Black Ka’kari cannot absorb is Iures the Staff of Law ( Retribution) and Curoch the Sword of Power, which if either one were wielded by a Magus that Magus would become next to invincible anyway. Oh and the person that said, yeah well Kylar may be able to absorb the magic as soon as the air, water, fire or earth started getting him he wouldn’t stand much of a chance? well the devourer devours EVERYTHING not just magic, he first figured out what it could do because it absorbed a blade the day before and he needed someway to defeat Roth Ursuul. Oh and Kylar probably could have walked straight up to Moraine through a city of wytches anyway, in one of the books ( 2 or 3 ) he does that in the Chantry a place with several thousand Magae. (END SPOILER)

    If you boil this contest down to their specials, Magical Attack Vs The Ability to Devour Anything Especially Magic, I wonder who wins?

    If its down to Skill at Arms, A person who needs her own personal bodyguard, who isn’t there at the moment Vs Someone who trained for years under a legend (SPOILER) A Legend that has been over half the legends around the world in the past 700 years(END SPOILER) I also wonder who wins?

    At weaves and magic A person who has trained for Years probably Decades in a world of magic and has reached heights that haven’t been seen before her time? Vs A young man who’s barely 20 and came into his power less then a year ago. Whose specialty is body magic Eg. Talent Strengthened Blows, Turning Invisible or Wrapping himself in Shadows, Summoning ghostly hands to fight unarmed against Durzo. Well for this a have to concede, poor Kylar doesn’t even know the shit he does half the time whereas this Wytch has been training, as someone said, longer then he’s been alive

    And personalities? “Has endured much in the way of pain and heartbreak” ? that doesn’t even begin to describe it, For an orphan to gain the closest thing to a father he can get and then kill him his self? To unknowingly condemn people who were like family? His best friend raped (SPOILER) and turned into one of Rat’s “Pretty Boy’s”? for his other best friend to be thought to be dead because he couldn’t bring himself to kill one person? To be magicly wedded to a woman he doesn’t love when he really loves another? To realise that he has condemned the woman he loves, loves enough to try to give up his way of life for! To unknowingly dondemn her to death and deliver the final blow himself? “Has endured much in the way of pain and heartbreak” doesn’t even begin to describe it. Moraine lost this battle, let her fans realise the only reason she is winning is because of that, she has more fans.

  • D.I. Waisanen

    @Rhys:

    “Also not to sound like a huge NAT fan here but the only things that the Black Ka’kari cannot absorb is Iures the Staff of Law ( Retribution) and Curoch the Sword of Power, which if either one were wielded by a Magus that Magus would become next to invincible anyway.”

    I could say the same thing about balefire; the only thing that it cannot destroy is cuendillar, which the black ka’kari is not made of.

  • Metacognition

    @D.I. Waisanen:
    I made the same argument before with other people. Okay, so both are on equal terms as far as what can stop them, Why not consider them both pretty much ineffective against each other? Balefire can’t destroy the Ka’kari and the Ka’kari can’t just absorb Balefire.
    The response I’ve gotten pretty much amounts to, “Nope! Balefire still wins!” No concession to the powers of each character, no reasonable explanation for the one-sidedness, just “nope. Can’t be that way.”
    That disappoints me in it’s closed mindedness.

  • Isdera

    @D.I. Waisanen
    while we can agree that the black ka’kari probably isn’t made out of this cuendillar, you have to admit that as we don’t know WHAT the ka’kari is made made up of it is still possible to be effective against it. it is also admitted that there is a possibility that the ka’kari could possibly not devour the balefire as well although i admit i’m biased in the fact that i’ve only read the night angels trilogy.

  • Contraindicated

    I’m a big fan of both series but there is just no way that Moiraine would win against Kylar in this scenario. The only way he can be ‘killed’ is if you somehow manage to get the jump on him in a major way or if he lets himself be killed. He could stand there and let every Aes Sedai and every Warder in the city throw everything they have at him and they wouldn’t be able to kill him if he didn’t want to let them. The bottom line is that outside of a few select magical artifacts that are made to be able to harm the black Ka’kari it will literally devour everything that is thrown at it and can shrug off any blow, it’s impenetrable. Not only that but it can transfer the energy it absorbs TO Kylar, who has a massive talent (basically he can store and use a huge amount of magical energy) and any excess it simply bleeds off.

    The way the scenario above would end is that if Moiraine managed to get off the balefire before Kylar stabbed her in the heart, the Devourer would simply absorb it, Kylar would stab Moiraine in the heart, Kylar would collect the Blue Ka’Kari and the Black would make some wisecrack in Kylar’s head as he got out of dodge.

    Really though, this entire scenario wouldn’t happen. Kylar would observe Moiraine without her knowing, decide whether or not he was going to kill her, and if he did decide to kill her he would do it in such a fashion that she wouldn’t know what hit her. She’d just be dead.

  • Z-man

    There is nothing I despise more than stupid dumb asses spoiling a good debate with spam/lame attempts to muddy the subject. I must admit that i found the “!WoT4Ever is an idiot” amusing, the first 50 times, then it was worse than the original post. I am in the position of having read and loved both the WOT series and the Kylar series and am distraught at having to choose one over the other. As far as which series I like better, it is a coin flip. They are both tied for second at the top of my favorite series list, behind Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead. Thus I had to base the fight solely on who I would think would win. That opens a can of worms but it basically comes down to balefire vs. the Black Ka’kari. I couldn’t make up my mind and so ironically had to resort back to which series I liked better and Kylar won by a hair but I think its because WOT is lacking the final book. I can only assume that it will be mind blowingly epic and will vault it solidly into second place, perhaps into 1st. Brent Weeks and Sanderson are both brilliant and the late great Robert Jordan is a straight up genius. Great work all around and keep it up.

  • 12Strings

    Kylar would win.
    for all those who have not read both the series, your decisions are marred by mis-information.
    if the winner is decided on fan base then Moiraine will win purely on length of time that the books have been around.
    however if it is based on ability then Kylar would win.
    why?
    added to his skills is the fact the Ka’kari has sentience and was not made by ezra. It would do what it had to in preserving itself and Kylar
    just so you know

  • OrchestructionX

    Balefire in it’s own right is essentially a devourer as well, aside from one known substance it erases anything in its path from existence, when it comes down to it can the black ka’kari devour something that destroys as soon as it makes contact?

  • Kresh

    Just my take on the final battle ;P

    Kylar had entered the Suvudu Stadium hours ago. He knew every inch of this vast coliseum now. He was invisible-not just hiding in dark shadows, but with the ka’kari, as a second skin around his body he was truly invisible. The crowds had been filtering in, and now, with the stadium full, the fans of many different worlds converged one last time.
    The Night Angel preferred to conduct his business out of the public eye. But today, this was not his lot. The floor of the stadium had no less than 20 entrances, most covered in layers of dirt. The shadowed places were marked in his mind.
    He had met with the Aes Sedai last night. Each judging the other. Her soul had been pure, until a month ago. Retribution had already judged her wanting and it had been all he could do to pronounce final judgment right there. And she had attempted several failed attempts at laying some sort of web or magic about him, but it was absorbed by the ka’kari, leaving him only a tingling sensation, but left her-well, she was good at controlling her emotions, but the slightest of twitches in her body betrayed her frustration at being able to manipulate him on any level with what she called the ‘one power’.
    On a personal level, he was pissed. She was sexist, somehow assuming that only women could safely “channel” magic. She was arrogant, that even with the statue she held close in her pocket would protect her. Only one thing that stood in his way last night. Lan.
    The Night Angel had taken care of that one item hours after his dinner with Moriaine was finished last night. Lan was good-more than good. It had left Kylar exhausted, and not without several cuts. But a ‘warder’ couldn’t use magic, and the speed at which the onslaught had come on, not to mention perfect darkness, gave Kylar every advantage.
    The fight was over before Moiraine could even get outside, sensing the danger through the bond they shared, though Kylar could see no earrings that the two shared together. Kylar knew it had hurt her, but he could not do what must be done with two battlefronts. Suvudu wouldn’t have allowed Kylar to kill Moiraine outside the stadium, but Lan was not in this match. He was fair game. And he also was wanting, having sacrificed his soul in assisting the Aes Sedai to gain favor in the tournament.
    What worried him most was what would be the reaction for the 5,000 cult fans of this witch. What would their reaction be when she fell- riots, threatening to tear Kylar apart? He couldn’t accurately predict how they would react, so many possible plans were running through his head of how he would respond.
    He knew which portcullis each was supposed to enter from, and in keeping with the rules he had already entered through his. He knew she would be angry. He heard her screams from the other side of the waiting areas. Anguish, hatred. He was the fool to take on a woman scorned. But he wasn’t going to give her so much as a hairs breadth. She had brought this on.
    In many ways, Kylar was thankful it was her. He knew he couldn’t have stood the might of Rake. Nothing would have been in his favor. But the One God gave him favor, and let Rake make the fatal mistake of underestimating the cult that followed Moiraine. This he couldn’t take chance. He had met with all the other cults of the fallen masters-Richard Rahl, Bast, Rake…all but those he had defeated swore an oath of loyalty. And of those he defeated, only Harry and Granny’s cults truly sided with the Aes Sedai. Those that worshiped “the pattern” were out-numbered in this final match, with thousands more OUTSIDE the stadium than inside. That only left what was at center stage.
    Kylar reached the point where Moiraine would emerge. The moment her doors opened she began casting something that raged of fire, but she stopped. The target she was expecting was not there. With retribution already out, he dropped his invisibility next to her. She had already tied weaves of air that would have prevented a normal sword from penetrating, but Retribution was anything but normal, eating the magic she had cast around her. She recast, and the sword move a fingers distance toward her. It ate, and she recast, over and over again, the sword coming closer and closer to her. At last, she realized that she would either have to take a wound to go on the offensive or continue in vain to maintain her defenses. Kylar nearly cried when he sensed her changing her stance, for at once the sword completed its swing, instantly tearing through both cloth and flesh. The strike surprised her. She thought that it shouldn’t have been able to go so deep.
    Like her match with Rake, she attempted to heal herself, only to find that the rules were corrected now. She knew it wasn’t right to have done so before, and that more than anything was what had given Retribution the power to overtake her.
    She attempted what Kylar clearly knew was called balefire, but she was already weak, and more, she knew she could not contain it to just Kylar. Kylar briefly, for just a moment, turned invisible. It wasn’t to hide from her, but to open her eyes as to what was behind him, those that were there for her. He showed her that not only her cult following was in the path of the fire-Kylar had made sure that her fans would extend to the side behind him, but others that did not deserve to be erased from her ‘pattern’ as well.
    For a brief moment, seemingly out of time, she looked into Kylars eyes. The look of pleading gone, mere acceptance of what would happen remained. Her strength was weakening. Her final plea was to help Rand. The Night Angel looked into her eyes, and turning the blade, plunged it into her heart. Retribution was upon her. She died as a warrior.
    The crowd was silent for three very long seconds, then before they could react, Kylar tripped a trap door to his right, sending him down a maze of pathways underneath the stadium. He knew there was only one place he could safely go, and that was back to his world. He knew how to get there, and in moments stood at the doorway to safety.
    As he walked through the door, his final thought of the cage matches he spoke aloud- “Rand, you are on your own.”

  • Theungry

    Everyone assuming Kylar can sneak up on Moiraine is forgetting that Aes Sedai have radically enhanced senses and reflexes when holding the one power. Moiraine is also known for cunning anticipation and manipulation, and capable of creating visual illusion. In a match where direct attacks will not work for either side, victory goes to the person who can out-think their opponent. Its still a very close match, but I’d take Moiraine in a game of wits, myself.

  • WoT4Ever

    Hmmmm… Seems the [insert whatever name you want to call me here] may have a point. As I said, and clearly many others agree, Balefire wins. Why? Because we say it does, and there are more of us than there are of you. Rules of the contest and all that, you know. Again, just because you don’t like how I say it, doesn’t make it untrue. If you’d rather, you can hear it from any of the large number of posts on here that are saying the same thing I am, just in a more politically correct fashion lol. Call me what you want, I’m not here to make cyberfriends… I’m here to watch my side win a cyber tournament, which they are clearly about to do. Regardless of what you call me, it won’t change the facts.

    Don’t hate the playa… hate the game.

  • Chris (a different one)

    @Kresh, If Kylar does as much research and is as thorough as it seems, he would know Moiraine’s thoughts about men using magic are very accurate for her own world, a man channeling is doomed to go insane and slaughter everyone around them.

    (also, balefire’s power can be controlled to stop after it hits its first target, as Rand, and Moiraine, have both done).

  • Amir

    So, I’m sure that I’m not the only one who noticed that in a matter of a few hours yesterday, the votes for Moiraine jumped up by over a thousand, when before that it was just over a thousand over a couple days. Suspicious, no? Wouldn’t it be great if people didn’t cheat for these things?

  • KayFlame

    While I know nothing of Moiraine and her world, this was a wonderful writeup! It was engaging, detailed, and included multiple facets of the characters’ and their skils from both works of fiction as far as I can tell. Well done Abyss! May the best character win!

  • a random poster

    @amir I would appreciate it if you stop jumping to conclusions and start pointing fingers. I know you didn’t do it outright but you’re implying it and you know it. A poster said earlier that someone posted the match up on 2 different WoT fanpage on facebook. That caused the sudden increase. I doubt if one person can have the resource to vote over a hundred times. Besides, it’s not exactly like Kylar’s fans are completely innocent. I know of people who voted for Kylar 3 to 5 times.

    Seriously, it’s an open world, and if fans of one party cheats, so can the other. If the other doesn’t, this means that the other series isn’t all that good that the people need to break their principles to see it win. That said, I’m not saying that fans of WoT necessarily cheated, since I don’t know that for a fact.

    Fact is, WoT fanbase is easily ten times more than NAT’s, so I am surprised that the difference in voting ratio is so small as it is. I love NAT and I would really want to see Kylar win. In fact, I’m pretty pissed right now that the main character of my favourite series is losing against a supporting character of another series but let’s face the fact: this is all about fan votes.

    And before you start flaming, I voted for Kylar

    And as a side note to all WoT supporters out there, be sure to pick up a NAT book. You won’t regret it. Period.

  • Lita

    These little contests are just popularity contests – Many of the people in them would never have been in the same reality together. And when you put two different stories together you will always get different things depending on the person doing the shoving together.

  • Divenire

    I feel like I’m beating a dead horse, but I have a different approach to the balefire vs. Black Kakari question than I’ve seen here.
    I noticed a focus on the black Kakari as Kylar’s primary weapon/artifact of power, but he also holds Iures. For those that don’t know, Iures is the Staff of Law created by Ezra the Mad (Midcyru’s most powerful mage in history, besides Alkestes). This Staff, though better known as the sword Retribution due to it’s shape-shifting, does not grant more power to it’s user, but instead allows them to create or unravel incredibly complex weaves as though they were simple. Now I have not read WoT, but I know Balefire is the effect on the physical world of a weave prepared by, say, Moiraine. But, with Iures incredible ability, Kylar could simply unravel the weave as it is created by Moiraine, thereby effectively stopping all effects of the weave on the physical world, since the weave is never actually finished. I personally see that answering the question of Balefire vs. Black Kakari because, well, the Balefire would never enter existance. Also, since the magic of WoT is based mainly on weaves, unlike the direct effects of the Talent; Iures could technically stop all forms of magic coming from Moiraine, even those that tried to effect the environment around him(throwing boulders etc.).
    Those are my two cents on the topic.

  • Terez

    Amir—Brandon tweeted the match to over 30,000 followers, and then the WoT Facebook page with almost 30,000 likes also posted it. But thanks for proving the point I made earlier to Mr. Weeks.

  • Lord Luc

    I have never read the NAT series so my knowledge of kylar and his world is limited to what has been mentioned here. I’m a HUGE WOT fan so my knowledge of that is… extensive.
    Now, I’m not even going to make a point of who would win cuz.. who can say? They seem equally matched to me. Moiraine, in pure brute strength (to my knowledge) seems stronger than Kyler. Kyler has his thing that devours any energy thrown at him…
    Can he defend himself from everything she throws at him and still get close enough to attack her? (especially, if assuming she can travel)
    Can she think quick enough to find a way to harm him before he manages to close in on her?

    “I don’t know which of these two is more deadly, but a mouse could starve on the difference”
    (Matrim Cauthon, The Shadow Rising)

    With that out of the way.
    As a HUGE fan of Moiraine I really resent people saying she could only win if she were a balefire wielding buffoon. Or saying that simply because Kyler has his.. thingy that devours energy she would be a helpless little lamb waiting for slaughter. Moiraine has 20 years of battle and maneuvering under her belt, would she be taken by surprise? could she not think of anyway, anyway at all to attack, or defend herself if she were put in a situation where her normal attacks/ defenses weren’t working?…do her fans think so little of her? Do they think she’s stupid? Aes Sedai are known for the intellects on top of their arcane knowledge, their ability to keep calm in dire situations and Moiraine is one of the greatest Aes Sedai alive. Maybe I’m getting too bent out of shape about this but I just get upset with the typical “Moiraine is surprised and stabbed. She balefires his ass. can his thing (can’t remember the name) absorb it or not? can anything absorb something that is trying to absorb it? Now, fans on both sides attack!”
    Sorry for the rant, I just felt the need to defend my girls honor 🙂

  • Greeneagle

    I’m a huge huge fan of both books. I was for Kyler from the beginning, but the only person I saw that could really beat Kyler was Rake. I think Kyler would have won this match, and I hope everyone knows that moraine is nowhere near powerful enough to undo everything Kyler did. She may (MAY) have enough power to stop him form ever leaping on her back and telling her about the cure. I will be voting for Kyler as he is clearly the victor.

  • Lord John

    I have never read the NAT series so my knowledge of kylar and his world is limited to what has been mentioned here. I’m a HUGE WOT fan so my knowledge of that is… extensive.
    Now, I’m not even going to make a point of who would win cuz.. who can say? They seem equally matched to me. Moiraine, in pure brute strength (to my knowledge) seems stronger than Kyler. Kyler has his thing that devours any energy thrown at him…
    Can he defend himself from everything she throws at him and still get close enough to attack her? (especially, if assuming she can travel)
    Can she think quick enough to find a way to harm him before he manages to close in on her?

    “I don’t know which of these two is more deadly, but a mouse could starve on the difference”
    (Matrim Cauthon, The Shadow Rising)

    With that out of the way.
    As a HUGE fan of Moiraine I really resent people saying she could only win if she were a balefire wielding buffoon. Or saying that simply because Kyler has his.. thingy that devours energy she would be a helpless little lamb waiting for slaughter. Moiraine has 20 years of battle and maneuvering under her belt, would she be taken by surprise? could she not think of anyway, anyway at all to attack, or defend herself if she were put in a situation where her normal attacks/ defenses weren’t working?…do her fans think so little of her? Do they think she’s stupid? Aes Sedai are known for the intellects on top of their arcane knowledge, their ability to keep calm in dire situations and Moiraine is one of the greatest Aes Sedai alive. Maybe I’m getting too bent out of shape about this but I just get upset with the typical “Moiraine is surprised and stabbed. She balefires his ass. can his thing (can’t remember the name) absorb it or not? can anything absorb something that is trying to absorb it? Now, fans on both sides attack!”
    Sorry for the rant, I just felt the need to defend my girls honor 🙂

  • D.I. Waisanen

    @Metacognition:

    If we assume that balefire doesn’t work on the black ka’kari, then you’re still scewing things in favor of Kylar, because there isn’t really any difference between assuming that they won’t work on each other, and assuming that the BK would absorb balefire. Saying that “they neutralize each other” is just a more polite way of saying, “Haha, none of Moiraine’s attacks work, the black ka’kari makes Kylar invincible.”

    I am not convinced at all that whatever the black ka’kari is made of equals cuendillar, as cuendillar is completely indestructible unless reality is bent to cause it to lose its properties and become weaker, whereas the black ka’kari can be damaged by specific, powerful magical items. No magical artifacts in the Wheel of Time series can damage cuendillar, even the ones that are themselves indestructible, can destroy cities, are also made of cuendillar, are thousands of years old, or create balefire. Not all exceptions are the same. I don’t think, “The ka’kari only has one thing that it can’t devour, just like balefire, therefore they’re equal” is a sufficient argument to show that balefire wouldn’t affect the black ka’kari.

  • Kresh

    @ Lord Luc

    I have read both series, and have loved the WoT series for over 13 years since I was introduced to it. I have only in the last year read the NAT series. Honestly, Moiraine is the Gandalf to the WoT series. Since she left, everyone KNEW she would be back for the final battle, just not how or when. Moiraine found Rand, tried to train him, but she couldn’t control him (at least the way SHE wanted to LOL). I will give her all the credit for being book smart, but not street smart! I don’t really know how powerful she is though. We know that Suan was stronger, and I presume that Nayneve is considerably stronger. Moiraine is very strong at court and in manipulating, but without angreal of any kind, I don’t think she had an immense amount of pool in the One Power. In her current state, it would take a Ter Angreal or Sa Angreal to match up. Her strength is mostly in her wisdom and faith. Those are what have kept her alive more than the rest. She, by herself in the series, is the counter to Chaos. She is completely Ordered. She is probably the best written of all the characters in WoT. I love her character. But imagine going against, say a male with the one power (not corrupted) who had a Sa Angreal that could think, assist, protect, and devour magic all at the same time, that was also devoted to that person, in fact CHOSE that person. Then add another Sa Angreal of a sword/staff (it can mutate it’s form) that is absolutely deadly. So…Rand with Callandor as well as a sentient secondary Sa Angreal. Who would win? Thus we basically have Kylar…

    Kylar is almost the opposite in that he grew up on the streets and apprenticed to be an assassin. Kylar has the Ka’Kari. It is a sentient “ball” per-se in its original form, that can cover his whole body or anything he wants it to. It interacts with his body, and is thousands of years old. It KNOWS and is actually kind of funny at times. Kylar is very well versed in poisons on his own, a trained assassin (20 years training) who uses his immense Talent (read One Power) to further enhance his abilities. Additionally he has the sword Retribution that has its own power, further enhancing.

    The WoT fans will likely win the match, but only due to loyalty. Objectively, as much as I love WoT, Kylar wins hands down. Moiraine wouldn’t stand a chance. She might be able to put up a fight, but not for long. And I DON’T think that it would be within her character, even facing DEATH, to use balefire on someone NOT spawned by the Dark One. She understands the secondary and further effects of what using it would mean.

  • WoT4Ever

    Moiraine is now up by 1300… That’s what I’m talking about!

    WoT FTW!

    Balefire owns all!

  • Well, Kylar might lose officially, but if it were to be an actual fight, he would win. So congrats to him for coming in second.

  • Metacognition

    @D.I. Waisanen:
    If putting them on equal terms seems to skew things in Kylar’s favor, it’s probably because he actually IS more favored in this fight than Moraine. He is a trained killer and is used to going up against some of the most powerful magic users (easily on par with the Forsaken) in his world and winning. Besides, the only thing that putting Balefire and the Ka’kari on equal footing does is make it clear that direct attacks at Kylar wouldn’t be able to do anything and as plenty of people have pointed out, that’s not the only way to use Saidar.
    To only make this an argument about Balefire vs the Ka’kari actually weakens Moraine, IMO because it doesn’t give her credit for anything else she could do. I’m not saying it would work (I’ve argued that side as well), but it’s by far a better standing point to start from than continuing to ignore the possibility that the Ka’kari might actually be able to consume Balefire.
    One of the biggest over sights in the actual balefire argument, IMO is the assumption that the effect (tearing out of existence) would happen in the first place. If that were to happen, then any weave that the Ka’kari would devour would also have to have it’s effect happen before devoured as well, so a weave of air would hold and then be consumed. We all already know that’s not how it works, so there’s no reason to think that a weave of Balefire would act differently.

  • Kathy Sedai

    Of course it’s a popularity contest. Of course the most popular will win. If you want your character to be more popular, get your friends to vote. Simple as that.
    I am obviously a WOT fan, with Moiraine being in my top 5. If this battle were going on in reality, you’d better hope Moiraine wins, as without her, Rand fails, the Wheel stops spinning, and we all die. That is all.

  • CS

    Stabbing someone in the heart is lethal, but by no means instantaneous. Balefire is. Sorry Kylar, but Moiraine wins.

  • VinSwift

    Well, at least Kylar got some good exposure.

  • Chris (a different one)

    Truth is Moiraine’s chances of beating Kylar in a fight are significantly greater than her chances of beating Rake were, I’d say around 10% for hear beating Kylar. I’m not knocking on Kylar, that is simply how powerful Rake is. But popularity is important, and the aces got pulled.

  • Chrono

    Well, I’ve read both, so in this story, I have no doubt Kylar wins. But, in reality it becomes a popularity contest and well we can all be the judge on who wins. :p

  • Abyss

    Fundamentally what it comes down to is a question of oh whatever how frikkin cool it is that Brent Weeks took the time to post and mention that he liked my write-up?!?!! 🙂

  • Crimius

    Balefire burns out strings from the Pattern; the more Balefire, the further it’s targets string becomes unraveled before vanishing. It goes without saying though, that these other characters aren’t parts of the Pattern to begin with, so the effect Balefire would have on one is debatable, at best. Another issue is which will be stronger, Moiraine’s weaves, or Kylar’s Black ka’kari. Understandably a Balefire burn strong enough would undo Kylar’s stabbing Moiraine, which is the only way I can see her escaping this right now, however once again we come back to how Balefire will react to characters not from the Pattern, and how the Black ka’kari will react to a magical threat as strong as Balefire, remembering that it is sentient and has been used reflexively in the past.

    All in all, I think that the Black ka’kari would devour Moiraine’s Balefire blast, with it’s magical negation capabilities surpassing that of Mr. Cauthon’s medallion in that it converts the excess absorbed energy into power for it’s master. This is Kylar we’re talking about, and he clearly knows he’s dealing with a mage, so there’s no way he’d set himself up in this situation without having the ka’kari at the ready.

  • Chris (a different one)

    The trouble with balefire is its not so much magic as it as a mobile paradox, and most things have issues around paradoxes. I think the Black could absorb balefire, but it would probably kick it out of the fight while it struggled to effectively control what it had just eaten. Balefire is magic, but a very specific and dangerous form, and everything has a thread in the pattern, even rocks, so the Ka’kari would as well, which makes absorbing balefire (which we have never seen used against Mat’s medallion, mind you), something of a paradoxical issue.

    In fact because of Balefire’s… odd properties, it is possible that the Ka’kari would have to deal with the effects of absorbing it even before it did so.

    I’m just speculating, but it is the best we have.

    Anyway, with the Black out of the fight from balefire, it becomes more even, though I do agree Kylar has an edge in this one.

  • Jerry

    I am not going to argue with the NAT fans anymore. Moiraine is going to win. Its all over but the crying and the crying has been going on for a while now. Yeah, I’m talking to you Meta. Kylar is great and could easily kill Moiraine but Moiraine could kill him as well. It annoys me the disrespect the ignorant NAT fans have given to Moiraine acting as if she is totally unworthy of being able to put up a fight against Kylar. I am a fan of NAT and Weeks but I am a bigger fan of WOT and I say Moiraine kicks his ass.

  • freaker

    on a completely off subject, I would’ve LOVED to see a Kelsier vs. Kylar writeup. : )

  • Darthcaz

    @WoT4Ever
    I do believe you mean cheating owns all. I’m so glad that glad that this made-up match between two made-up characters was so important that people felt they needed an unfair advantage. Kudos.

  • freaker

    I don’t know if anybody would listen to me, but how about you guys just agree to disagree on the balefire and the black ka’kari.

    It’s much easier on people that way, since you aren’t going to convince eachother that balefire is stronger than the ka’kari, or that the ka’kari can devour balefire. And anyway, Moiraine already won by your votes. So, congrats to her, and to Kylar who actually made it this far! : )

  • Terez

    Darthcaz: Another point-prover.

  • yocxl

    Hasn’t it been stated multiple times that vote surges are unlikely to be indicative of cheating?

  • Metacognition

    Bah, I’ve enjoyed these discussions and always tried to keep them civil and on topic of the abilities of the two opponents rather than complaining about the other side, especially about possible cheating, which I think (if it was done at all) wouldn’t have changed the outcome and couldn’t be linked to one side or the other.
    I’m not surprised Moraine won and I think that based off of the logic of those that voted for her, it’s indeed a reasonable possibility (I just don’t entirely agree with their why, not that it couldn’t be done), but to complain about others arguing the other side of the coin is ridiculous, Jerry. After all, you don’t grow by only hearing one side of the argument.
    I congratulate Moraine and her fans on her victory and I’d like to express my thankfulness that so many Kylar fans didn’t resolve to name calling throughout this debate. Nothing against Malaz fans, but I’m glad that this didn’t erupt into the same clusterfuck that Moraine’s last battle turned into in the end and I give part of that over to the fans (though I admire your dedication). I know, there’s still time for it, but I’ve been impressed with how thoughtful MOST of the fans have been.
    I look forward to the next matches, as I’ve enjoyed myself with these so far, so thanks to everyone for making them enjoyable!

  • Musing Fan

    I dislike how the write-up made it into a “Balefire vs Black Ka’kari” scenario, something I really hoped the final would avoid seeing as this will (and has) just make everyone regurgitate their arguments from previous rounds on the matter. I was hoping for something new to be brought to the table. As a NAT fan I have to say that Kylar is perfectly able to observe stealthily and shoot a couple of bolts/arrows/knives into her back. So she has wards around her? Shoot a spiked black ka’kari at her. Whether or not it consumes balefire doesn’t matter at that point; it’ll fly through walls, protective weaves and a human head just fine. There were so many ways to go about this fight but planting the balefire vs ka’kari idea firmly at the front just overshadows the actual characters the fight is really about. It becomes universe vs universe instead. Other than that it was a great write-up.

    Yea I can’t really say how Moiraine will go about this since I haven’t read any WoT books but judging by previous write-ups and comments, she isn’t/shouldn’t be a one-trick-pony.

  • Musing Fan

    Ok I just realised people are gonna give me crap for (unintentionally) implying hypocritically that Kylar should be able to use the ka’kari but Moiraine shouldn’t use balefire. The thing is, Kylar and the ka’kari are essentially as one. By bonding it, it becomes a part of him (literally), changes him in mind and body, and he will eventually change it. Well,maybe just it’s personality and knowledge anyway. So the ka’kari is just an extension of his body. As a person’s magic power is an extension of them. How they use it depends on the situation.

  • wetboy212

    kylar cant die, all he has to do is to give up some1’s life instead of his own, theres no way shawty can be him, he would keep coming back to life, every Nat fan should no that

  • EmiT

    Even though I love both characers, and I’m a fan of both their book series…..Kylar is a trained killer, he laid the trap, has the moment of surprise….Moiraine, though powerful doesn’t have much of a chance. Wheel of Time probably does have more fans, so she’s more likely to win….yet I have to vote for Kylar. Honestly, popularity aside…I think he’d win this one 🙂

  • Zangetsu

    I have to agree with people that this shouldn’t of really devolved into a ka’kaari vs balefire debate. The reason is that each of these characters have so much more in their arsenal than just these abilities. As a NAT I have voted for kylar but I can quite easily see moraine winning as well. Also for fans who have stated at problems with the write, try to remember that these are written by people who didn’t create the characters so they are trying their best to write a fight as close as possible.

    Tbh what fans need to realize is that all characters can and will be beaten/killed in a certain scenario. Also people say that balefire is the only way to beat kylar they clearly forget the fight between him and latanno (hope it is spelled right) almost ended in kylars death. So even if kylar does lose I am happy it was to such a great character

  • Bradleelee

    @…. everyone?
    I just wanted to throw out a few small comments.

    This is my first cage match. It looked to be a lot of fun and decided to get into it. (Especially since I knew some of the characters) I read through the rules explaining that it is not intended as a popularity contest. You are not supposed to vote for your favorite character, you vote for the person who you believe would win. So I took the time for each match to read up on all characters I did not know (also because I wanted to know about their respective series anyways to possibly read later) and take a careful consideration on their respective powers. Some fights I saw were… questionable but plausable I guess. However, I knew that I was simply kidding myself when I saw the last fight with Anomander Rake.

    If you do not know who he is, use the magic website called Wikipedia. Everyone in the cage match loses to the 300,000 year old “man” made god dragon thing of death. It isn’t even a contest. Kyler loses to him, Moraine loses to him and that is that. Take a simple objective, unbiased, look and it is clear. When he loses with only 38% of the votes. Something is wrong.

    Can Moiraine beat Kylar? Sure. Is she really strong? Without question. Can she do other stuff but spam baelfire? Absolutely. Is it likely she would win 2/3 against Kylar? Probably not. If you haven’t read WoT, read it. If you haven’t read NAT, I would pick those up too. Both are great series. But even after you have already voted for either party, just go to google and read up on their abilities. I am fairly certain you will come up with the same conlcusion.

    I guess I simply wanted to get my frustrations out there on my naivety. This is the internet, and I should have known better.

  • Rhys

    The bullshit that decrees Moraine wins due to her fan-base not to be mean about the write up here, but, there’s one thing the auther here left out. Kylar’s ability to SEE when someone is drawing they’re power out, Moraine readies her weave pretty soon after Kylar plants his poisoned knife in her back and starts telling her to surrender. As someone also said Kylar has in his possession Iures the Staff of Law (Retribution) which can make or destroy really fucking complex weaves, simple as that. Her balefire weave wouldn’t make it past being a weave. Full stop/Period. Now we get down to the fact that the WoT fans like to ignore how Kylar would win in a straight up fight, what happens if Kylar simply dodges the Balefire? It seems to be sort of like a missile magic that has a path it follows and destroys everything in that path. Remembering that Kylars Talent not only increases is strength but also his speed if he didn’t dodge it and instead chose to send his knife another inch further into her heart there’s a fair chance that her release of the weave would take longer then him. Oh and i quite like someones casual remark about Moraine having her body guard help her in a fight, then why can’t Kylar have his Master Acaeleous Thorne help him? or would it be better to just give up the contest and say that Kylar wins on the fact that its a tag team? or even with Vi Sovari helping Kylar, Moraine wouldn’t stand a chance. Even if you strip Kylar of his specials (Retribution and the Black Ka’Kari) and Moraine of hers (Balefire) and left the fight to just their normal magic and physical capabilities, i don’t think a mage would win, just on the grounds that she wouldn’t be able to run away fast enough.

  • The Commity

    I don’t think that a lot of you understand the rules of this competition. It’s pretty simple. Vote for who you think would win. Moiraine is a WoT channeler with Balefire. Nobody in any other universe has a chance against that. If you believe otherwise, you’re entitled to that belief, but in this tournament, your belief doesn’t matter. All of us WoT fans know that Balefire cannot be stopped by all the means that the rest of you keep trying to give, and we will vote accordingly… and since we clearly have more fans than the rest of you, our viewpoint about balefire is the one that matters here. Don’t be dissapointed because your favorite character lost to Moiraine, be happy that they got as far as they did and just had the misfortune of drawing a WoT channeler with Balefire capacity in the tourney. Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good, like last year when somebody else won because the WoT character was not a channeler with Balefire.

  • Kage

    I hate to say it because i am a fan of both series but Kyler’s Black Ka’kari could devour the balefire, leaving him alive and sadly Moiraine Dead.

  • I don’t care how many times you say it, you may be able to win in this Tournament, do to mass amount of fans, but that doesn’t mean that she would suddenly win in a fight. Also, you cannot just say, balefire wins just because we say it does, that’s kind of stupid. I mean, should I go around saying that I get an A for work I didn’t do? Or saying that you should give me a thousand dollars simply because I say so? Come on.

    Unless your too stubborn to see it, you know that Kylar should, by all logic and all reasoning, win this fight. However, this is a vote for who you want, so that’s fine, but don’t try and justify your vote by trying to argue that Moraine(Spelling?) actually has a chance, because she doesn’t. As pointed out above, Kylar would be much faster then Balefire, even if it would work and the evidence suggests that it wouldn’t, because Kylar can see when a mage draws power before they actually release it, she would be dead in a mila second.

    So, Moraine(Spelling?) has this fight do to popularity, but to try and state that she would actually win, when she is going up against someone who is specially trained to take out mages, well, that’s kind of far out there in the world of crazy. Still, WoT has had a long time to build up a fanbase, Brent has only had four years, it’s pretty impressive how far he’s come, that can’t be denied/ Hopefully, if Kylar’s back next year, he wins.

  • Sad nerd

    All these people trying to justify why Moiraine would win or why Kylar would win and why anyone who thinks differently is a moron. Is about the saddest thing I have seen on the internet in a long time. I have read both series (wot multiple times) and after reading through these comments, I am now ashamed to call myself a fan of either series.

  • The Riddler

    Sadly i saw this coming

    Tbh Kylar would win I love them both but Moiraine has absolutely no chance I won’t bother restating what has already been said by others who agree but the WoT fanbase is huge and rabid and therefore Kylar loses Moiraine wins

    honestly this doesn’t even matter so idk why people are making such a big deal about it. its supposed to be fun and get people to read the books not make them never want to be anywhere near a part of the fanbases of the characters
    That is all I have to say

  • WoT4Ever

    3 and a half hours to victory!

  • Robb

    I don’t understand why people would spend so much time debating the strengths of abilities from characters in different fictitious universes. It’s all subjective. That’s why I can confidently argue that, based on their abilities, all the characters in this cage match would have certainly lost to Snoopy from the Peanuts comic strip had he been included. I think it’s pretty obvious. Especially Rake… wouldn’t have had a chance against Snoopy’s clearly superior intellect, physical strength and supernatural talents.

    Get it? My point is: there is absolutely no objective way to determine the outcome aside from a measure of each characters’ respective popularity. So that’s what this is.

  • MJJCoward

    I’ve never read the Night Angel Trilogy, have read teh WoT books several time, I really like Moraine as a character and in this case I got to say I think Kylar wins the fight. At first I voted for Moraine, then on second thought went back and voted for Kylar twice. In all honesty, I think Moraine doesn’t even make it to the final, as in the earlier rounds, it would seem, you had the option of surrendering versus fighting to the death. Moraine is a pragmatist and as such would take the easiest possible route to get her back to her true mission, guiding Rand. Given that, she ducks out at the first opportunity and gets back to what is important. Since she made it this far, I think she puts up a tremendous fight, she would throw everything she has at Kylar, including Balefire, however, given her significantly reduced strength (most of it having been drained away), she relys on her angreal for a power boost and even with that is now only of average strength. I’m not sure she is strong enough for balefire anymore. Practically speaking, its stated many times in the WoT books, all it takes is one arrow and an Aes Sedai is dead, that’s why they have warders. Lan isn’t Moraine’s warder anymore, so he’s out of the picture. Caught unaware, in that situation, she might be able to get in a killing stroke (if Kylar can be killed), however, at best it’s a draw.

    Those are my thoughts.

  • now ive read all the comments and also am a big fan of both series of books!
    all im gonna say on this is that even with the balefire i think kylar would still be fast enough to kill her and avoid any weaves she could throw at him! and no other weaves she could make would effect him so basically its a contest of whether or not she can actually hit him with that one weave! my opinion is that she has no chance!!

  • kylars too fast to clever too dangerous and too skilled at the art of killing for moiraine to have a chance , i doubt hed be stupid enough to stay long enough for her to actually complete any weave! and seeing as balefires the only one that would have a chance of hurting him then that leaves her as a one trick pony in this contest ,,

  • Xeones

    Need to get some votes in for Kylar fast! This poll is heading the wrong direction!

  • Bob Nelson

    Hey Abyss, Great write-up! One problem though – Moraine would have used the One Power to heal the stab wound in her side. (Right???)

  • Huh

    @Bob Nelson
    Abyss admitted he’d messed up with Moiraine healing herself. He’s done excellent with his write-ups. You’ve done…..what? Been a smart ass? Good job.

  • Treacle

    I’m glad the votes worked out this way. Truth is, most of her weaves are pretty close to instantaneous at this level of experience for her. No creativity from a good assassin can overcome that tiny time frame.

    Look, for this to be a fair competition, each needs to be aware there’s a battle to be fought. That means no matter how creative you get, Kylar could only win if he gets the drop on Moiraine which precludes it being a fair battle.

    Hands down, regardless of what set of weaves Moiraine uses, she wins. Sorry fantasy assassin, game over.

  • Bob

    For what it’s worth, I think the readers comparing the ka’kari to WOT Mat’s foxhead medallion offer the best cross-universe analogy. And while it’s not stated in the novels, I think that Mat’s foxhead medallion would prevent balefire. This gets highly subjective, but it seems that the way the One Power always works is by touching a target with a weave. And, with regards to balefire (as opposed to say throwing a boulder with air), it seems that there needs to be a connection between the balefire weave and the target. So if the weave can’t touch the target, or the target absorbs the weave as it gets touched, then the balefire would not get formed. So, IMHO, balefire would be ineffective against the ka’kari if Kylar was expecting an attack.

    Does that mean that Kylar automatically wins? Heck no! Moraine is a hugely skilled, immensely powerful individual – especially augmented by angreal. Kylar can turn invisible; so what – Moraine can weave a net of spirit and fire that is essentially a 3-D minefield. Sure, Kylar can use his talent to disarm these tripwires, but Moraine will know when those weaves have been broken and launch indirect attacks such as blowing up the ground underneath him. The ka’kari armor may protect Kylar from blast and earth-fragment shrapnel, but what about other attacks such as super-heated air, vacuum, audio blasts, quicksand, molten-glass sand, being encased in earth – it’s a huge list. OK, yeah, if you say the ka’kari is an armor of invincibility and Kylar could run up unimpeded through all obtacles and slap Moraine’s head off, then sure he’ll win. But then, that’s not much of a match-up, is it? Might as well go back to: Moraine sees Kylar – Moraine balefies Kylar – game over dude.

    (I’m going to put in an aside here and state that I don’t know anything about Kylar’s magical abilities, especially potential magical attacks. They haven’t been covered in previous write-ups or wikipedia. I’m just going to use writer’s privelege and assume Moraine could counter them.)

    So, I’m not going to do a write-up, but in an arena style match, I think this could go either way. I voted for Kylar and in my opinion Kylar would win after a long difficult match where he was stretched to his very limits. But if he made a single mistake, and some write-ups have admitted he’s prone to mistakes, then Moraine would capitalize on it and kick his tail.

  • Bob

    @Huh,
    Oops! What I thought was obvious casual teasing was taken as biting sarcasm. For what it’s worth (to use that phrase again), the compliment to Abyss was sincere and I’ve got history of thanking him for his efforts. I think that anybody that takes the time to present a piece of creative writing to a public forum deserves praise for their effort.

    As for being a smart-ass – guilty as charged!

    @Abyss
    Great write-up! (No further teasing comments which could be accidentally misconstrued.)

  • Huh

    @Bob
    Sorry for the thin skin, I just got fed up with the Abyss bashing that’s been posted at every write-up he’s done, especially the Rake vs. Moiraine one. He’s done a wonderful job and when I see people nitpick, it irks me.

  • Kresh

    Just a question as I haven’t read the series in a while…is Moiraine still bound by the 3 oaths? If so, and she sees that Kylar is not a dark friend, would the oaths prevent her from using the one power against him?

  • Jerry

    Here is my write up of how the fight would go.

    Kylar is invisible. He sees Moiraine walking towards his position and shoots an arrow made from the black kakari towards her head. He turns to walk away because he knows she is dead. The black kakari will devour any magical protection she has and kill her. As he turns he sees a vertical flash of light before him and there is an opening in the air and his black kakari arrow hits him in the head and he dies. ,Moiraine had opened a gateway in the path of the arrow and made the other end to be behind Kylar. Thus the black kakari arrow passed through the gateway as it would regular air because the weave of the gateway is not in the path of the arrow and Kylar essentially shot himself. Kylar believed he was invisible but as his black kakari was devouring the wards that Moiraine had set, it unwittingly provided to Moiraine the precise location of Kylar because she could feel her wards disintegrating and follow his path. Poor Kylar. “Well that was easy.” Moiraine said and went back to saving the world from the Dark One.

  • Chris (a different one)

    @Kresh: Not really, it is a battle to the death, and the OP is allowed in such situations.

    Creative, Jerry, creative.

  • freaker

    I don’t know if anybody’s still looking at this comment thread anymore, but I have just one question. Can Aes Sedai heal themselves? I thought they couldn’t..but then I only went up to book 7…

  • jada

    @freaker: Having read the series several times, my recollection is: Nope. Aes Sedai can’t Heal themselves any more than they can lift themselves with flows of Air and fly.

  • Chris (a different one)

    @Freaker, not that we know of. I don’t know if there is a quote from RJ, BS, or maria that says it straight out, but it does seem to be impossible, and none of the Forsaken seem able to do it.

    The one power appears to work with the channeler as the fulcrum, hence why someone can lift something else with flows of air but not themselves, and that also appears to hold for healing and many other weaves, which cannot be place directly on someone by themselves.

  • freaker

    Thanks! I was just a bit confused by the people who said Moiraine could heal herself. ..And I was a bit too lazy to check in the books :p

  • D.I. Waisanen

    Well, that’s that.

    I’m glad that this tournament was won by a character who deserved it, one that I had pegged as a favorite from the start, and that we finally have a female championship. However, I also hope that the Wheel of Time gets a less known character in the next cage match, or none at all. Two champions already is enough . . . they’re really coming to dominate these matches. The lowest placing Wheel of Time character so far got third place!

    Mat in this tournament would just be overkill.

  • Richard

    The balefire will be intercepted by the black ka’kari. The ka’kari is well known for involuntarily eating magic directed towards it – Kylar only lost his arm because he willed the ka’kari to retract from his arm when fighting the feruli. If he’d just hugged the damn thing, he would have been fine.

    Whether it eats the balefire, or gets blasted out of existance by it, is another point completely – but the interception tends to happen before attacking spells cause damage. Either way, Kylar either gets really glowy due to huge amounts of power, or he loses his Kakari and is surprsied by it, but he’s already stabbed Moraine. Unless she can weave a second balefire, Kylar definitely wins.

  • Stephen

    aw sad. kylar didnt win. all well. this was a great few weeks. have tons of books to read now though…. thanks suvudu! can you pick up the tab from amazon? i cant pay for them all by my lonesome =P

    look forward to next years line up. maybe we can nip zaphod before he ever opens his mouth (yes im still slightly angry saphira didnt win, all well)

  • Charles

    I know the comments got a little… passionate, but I think that both NAT and WoT seems like fantastic stories. Obviously both have a fairly devoted fanbase, so there must be something to them, right? I personally know that NAT is amazing and I can’t wait until WoT gets delivered. Congrats to Moiraine for the victory, but I’m really excited that Kylar got this far seeing as he was a 9 seed.

  • spike1point5

    Kylar wins. Moiraine completes the weave, but the ka’kari devours it. It throws him off his stab though, so he just moves back and throws a knife into her heart before she has the chance to complete another weave.

  • WOT_DR

    Having read both series (Complete WOT twice), and a big fan of each, I simply can’t believe Kylar lost. This will more than likely come accross as offensive, but if you voted for Moiraine then you are either 1) Misinformed on Kylar’s abilities/don’t know them at all or 2) Simply do not care and are voting for a favorite character. Which either is fine, but just own up to it and be honest. It is just embarassing and pretty blatant anyways. Go and read his abilities or the books for that matter. (If you haven’t read WOT I would read them as well. Wonderful books!)

    This has been said many times, but I will say it again. If you want some sort of comparision of abilities that spans both universes, just look at the Foxhead Medallion. Now just put that on Kylar and lets have a chat on who wins. Pretty easy right? So simple, yet so hard for people to understand.

  • Shade

    Jerry- Funny write up. You are aware that the last time I remember, Moraine didn’t yet know how to weave a gateway? That’s the thing that gets to me about what a lot of people infer with how Moraine could win, they keep giving her abilities that only other people had.

    Congrats to Moraine on her win. While I still think Kylar should’ve won, I’m sure there would be someway for her to win and she wouldn’t have gotten this far without being formidable enough to at least plausibly win, right?

  • Musing Fan

    Jerry:

    That was funny, like Shade above me said. Funny in that the ka’kari would just splat itself and be absorbed back into Kylar. Just thought I’d throw that out there.

    Good match anyhow. I’m still confident that even in a face to face fight, Kylar would win. By a hair maybe, but still win. There are just so many ways to go about killing that even Dobby could kill either of these two. Actually Dobby could totally kill any of these two!

  • Anthony Giordano

    Gotta love how Kylar was winning kind of decisively until two large Wheel of Time fan pages on Facebook told people to go vote, and then he got overwhelmed by sheer popularity. People probably didn’t even read the write-up or know who Kylar Stern was. Personally, I think Kylar would have won. Moiraine is awesome, but the Ka’kre devours magic and there is no way a spell weaver would be able to trump Kylar. Too bad the vote got biased in the last two days. I wanted to see Brent Weeks take it to the bank. I love Wheel of Time and all, but somebody new deserves to win for once.

  • Jerry

    It’s over now and I voted for WOT because I like that series better than NAT. (I have read both) It is pretty silly to say that you should not vote on popularity, only decide who would win in a fight. In most fantasy the hero is usually weaker than the villain. If the hero is more powerful than the villain then there is no conflict or suspense. So if the books we read usually are about the hero overcoming long odds to defeat a more powerful villain, why should we only vote for the character who is more powerful. Seems kinda silly to me. Anyway both series rock!

  • Novouto

    Yeah!!! I am very pleased with this outcome. Night Angel Trilogy was a terrible book, it was a crime that Kylar got this far but justice has been done. Brent Weeks is an awful writer and I am glad Wheel of Time won.

  • a random poster

    @novuto so you’re saying that you could have done better? I’m looking for a new book to read as of current. Care to tell me the name of that book you wrote so that I can experience your supremeness first-hand?

  • Mary

    I voted for Moiraine Damodred. 🙂

  • TroubleMaker

    @Anthony Giordano
    Kylar was winning before because NAT main site and the Author had posted about the fight.

  • Blend

    This whole championship match is a joke. I mean i love Moraine but there is no way that she should have been able to beat Rake. She may command demi god level power but Rake was the son of Darkness and had like a million years of combat experience.
    As for that young punk Stren in real life Cale would have easily butchered him or Granny would have turned him into a frog.

  • TroubleMaker

    @Blend.
    Popularity Contest.

  • dawoad

    @novo
    subtle signs point to the fact that you haven’t read any of the night angel series. The most obvious, of course, is that you called it the Night Angel Trilogy book. It’s three books, you can tell by the word trilogy. I suspect you haven’t read WoT either . . .though that’s more of a guess that you’re not actually capable of anything beyond basic literacy than it is an actual hypothesis.

  • Bruce

    @ Shade and DI

    Not even close. At least with Rand and Quick Ben, people outside of their fanbases could say ‘yeah, I could see him winning it all.’ With Moiraine, NOBODY outside the WoT fanbase (who has actually read many of these series) thinks she should have ever gotten to the finals, let alone won it. She is only ‘deserving’ if you believe that this is a simple popularity contest, as all of the WoT supporters are so eager to shout out to the heavens and try to convince everyone else that that’s all it is, since it would obviously justify them voting for their favorites with no thought involved, which of course gives them a HUGE advantage over everyone else. And, as some of the WoT people have said, since they have more fans than everyone else, if they want to make it a popularity contest, then thats what it is since nobody can outvote them to stop them from succeeding in that endeavor. And for those of you who wish to argue that it just ‘is’ a popularity contest, perhaps you should relay that information to the SUVUDU people, since I’m sure it would be a load of work off of their back to write up next year’s tournament with nothing more than a list of names on a bracket… no character write-ups, no break downs, just; who do you want to win… heck they could even save themselves a bunch more time by not even doing a bracket… just let everyone vote for their favorite to win right away and be done with it… If all that this tournament is is a simple popularity contest, it would be a ridiculous waste of time and effort to do it the way that they do, and I’m sure they’d appreciate you informing them of that so they could save themselves the trouble.

  • crypt

    well there’s also a chance that there some people with hurt feeling from the Cale fight and some other matches that would vote one way just to see the character get defeated because of how some of the fans were over the write ups

  • Nick

    Ok seriously? A Joke? *sigh* Look Moraine is badass… And I looked at thier abilities and read the books… And to be honest I can see this being a draw… But One power and Majic are 2 different things… So how would Kylar be able to absorb the weaves? Kylar is an Assassign… In every scifi/fantasy novel I have ever read no assassign EVER fights 1v1.. They get in mak their kill get out.. But this is a fight to the death… And Moraine is a battle tested veteran… All in all… In a real life fight… I’d still put my money on Moraine… SH ehas the experience and know how to wipe Kylar from the face of the planet… And since they were fighting in Randlad… he’s part of the wheel then… Balefire will destroy him… He didn’t have the foxhead medalion to protect him…

    Seriously… Not make it this far? O.o She fought Tarzan! The only person I see that would have given her trouble was Anomander Rake… And that is only because he has that god power… Get over it… It’s over… Stop your whining… Smile and be happy…

  • Samuel

    Yeah…I have to say, you Kylar fans are some odd ducks. Chill out. He’s a quasi-well known assassin who gets killed a lot versus what’s basically the Gandalf of one of the best-selling fantasy series of all time.

    I mean, come on.

  • WoT4Ever

    There it is! Chalk up another title for us!

    As others have stated, Nobody can beat a WoT channeler with Balefire. Even if you think they could, doesn’t matter because we will out-vote you, which means our opinion is the one that matters.

    WoT FTW!

  • Rock

    @Nick

    You called Kylar an assassin. He is not. Just one of your manly flaws in logic and knowledge that you gave. A clear indication that you simply made a favorite character pick instead of reading through the abilities. You do not have a clue. On a side note, “….” are used as periods or for people who cannot make complete sentences.

    Remember these words before you post on the internet again: “It is better to let people think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and prove it.”

  • Bradleelee

    @Rock
    That was a little harsh. While valid, you could have picked some different ways to get your point accross.

    @Nick
    She is a badass *inside* the WOT series, but not neccesarily in others. A quick example is when you have a book series where almost no one has magical power, but someone is an extremely well trained and powerful swordsman. In that world he is an unstoppable force, while in WOT he is killed with some trivial magic. You see the point? Something that is very bothersome is the fact that you say Anomander would “have given her trouble”. This is such an understatement it is beyond comprehension. Anomander wipes the floor with everyone here and truly shows to who actually voted for her in the last match again him. It leads me to believe that the same people voted in the same manner here. Which is more than dissapointing. Also, remember he is a wetboy, not an assassin.

    Beating a dead horse, but if you want a comparison with The Black just think of the Fox Medallion. So if he had the medallion, we would win in most people’s eyes.

  • Matthew

    Just putting someone like Rake (or on the opposite end of the spectrum, last year’s Martin the Warrior) in the competition at all makes it clear that these fights are not actually meant to be judged solely on the perceived merits of the combatants. Logically speaking, unless other heavy-hitters like Zeus and Odin are his opponents, Rake wins, no contest.

    Yes, Moiraine won because WoT fans vote for WoT characters. She was included specifically to induce that effect. For that matter, Rake only exists in this competition to appeal to Malazan fans. Ditto for every character in the lineup.

    Scroll to the top of the page and tell me what you see in the upper left. Spoiler for the lazy: “Random House, Inc.” And oh – what’s that nearby: “Cart” Whatever could that be for? Oh yeah. That’s right. This whole site exists to sell books. The contest exists to bring people here in the hopes that they will click around a bit and end up buying a book. It’s marketing.

    If you want something else, you should look for it elsewhere.

  • Mike

    Breath is a noun.

    Breathe is a verb.

    If we’re going to go to all the trouble to write all this, can we just get this right?

  • Mary

    @ Matthew

    While you have a point, it seems to me that, in the future, if they want to get anyone besides WoT finds to come here and poke around, they need to stop including Balefire characters in these tourneys. I know that me and a dozen of my friends that have come here for these tourneys over the last three years because a couple of us spread the word to the rest of us will not be back next year if next year’s list includes a character with Balefire, or even a very popular WoT character, and we definitely won’t spread the word to any more of our friends since we consider it a pointless waste of time to participate if such characters are involved.

  • Abyss

    It’s hardly rocket science to reason a way out of balefire (or any other sf/fant Ultimate Badassitude Power) for the purposes of a cage-match type write up (unless of course rockets are involved, in which case it IS rocket science, but i digress…). Issues re Moiraine trimming her own fingernails with the One Power aside, i did it in the Rake v Moiraine cage match by him relying on his own link to Chaos, which, if you loosely interpret a few elements from WoT and Malazan, is outside any pattern. I notice that despite the abundance of horror at my having written Moiraine using the One Power to creatively fall (or ‘fly’ as some insisted), no one really picked the Chaos thing apart. It’s arguable, easily debateable, but the point being with a little creativity balefire,, or anything else, is hardly the be-all and end-all of things. I could have as easily written the Rake v Moiraine write up to have Moiraine win with just a few tweaks (and sixteen WoT fans on an international hivemind cross-referencing cyber-network to fact check for me, but again, i digress…).

    Now WoTs sheer massive fan base, otoh… THAT’S hard to beat. 🙂

  • Jerry

    @ Mary

    That’s your choice. Last year the WOT character Perrin, lost to Quick Ben. I voted for Quick Ben as did other WOT fans because there was no way that Perrin could beat Quick Ben and I also like Quick Ben’s character. It is not inevitable that a WOT character will win, just very likely 😉

    This is all for fun and to learn about other books. To be fair I will admit that Rake should have won, he is the badass of badasses, no question, but like I said before the hero always wins against impossible odds right? So Moiraine found a way to defeat Mr Anomander himself. That is the way it should be. But again I am biased in favor of WOT. You should give credit to Robert Jordan for writing such a great series and creating such beloved characters that it created such a legion of dedicated fans!. But like I said, others can win as well as was proven last year.

  • Bruce

    @Jerry

    You showed selective reading at its best… Mary said several times that the concern was a character with Balefire, which Perrin did not have, so your referrences to Quick Ben’s win last year is moot.

    Also, the whole ‘less powerful character sometimes just finds a way to win’ concept seems to escape the WoT crowd when the WoT character is clearly the more powerful in the matchup.

  • D.I. Waisanen

    I don’t really approve of voting for characters based on popularity, but in the case of the Wheel of Time, it usually is valid. The One Power and balefire really are hard to beat, though not impossible. At least with WoT characters, they actually have power as opposed to just fan power, like, say, aSoIaF characters. I voted for Moiraine every time this year, except Anomander Rake, because he was a character who could have logically beaten her. I voted for Quick Ben against Perrin last year for the same reason.

    Everyone can decide that they don’t accept the vote totals and continue with this “Kylar wins except for fan power!” if they want, but I will stand by what I said before and continue to say that Moiraine is the logical winner. I doubt even the foxhead medallion could stop balefire, as it was never tested in canon and balefire has defeated everything else except for cuendillar. If I believed that the black ka’kari could consume balefire and Kylar could counter Moiraine’s other tactics, I would have voted for him.

  • Kevin Granger

    She uses only magic, Kylar’s kakari eats magic…. should I say more?

  • freaker

    @almost everyone-if you’re still reading this thread and planning to post:

    Don’t do it! It’s all over-Moiraine and the WoT fans have won, and there’s nothing I or any other NAT fan can do about it. Flaming won’t help either, or saying that Moiraine didn’t deserve to win, (it probably won’t end well) since she did, and that’s that.

  • TroubleMaker

    @Freaker
    Kylar didn’t deserve to win against Cale or Granny as well.
    he won becoz its a Popularity contest, and for the same reason Moir won.

  • David

    @ abyss
    You are by far one of the most entertaining posters ive ever seen. if you are not allready writing a novel i hope you do in the future because i have greatly enjoyed this cage match and everything you provided.

  • Castleguard

    You know there was one character a few years back who was for all intents and purposes all powerful and no one seemed to complain much when he lost. Everyone know who I am talking about Aslan of course.
    I have not seeing a single character yet from any of the tournaments who could or would be able to beat Aslan in a fight. Oh and there is no way that Balefire would work on him either.

    Although he did lose to one of my favorite characters and in as believable and fun way as could be done in my opinion. I still don’t think he would have lost or that he should have but he did. Its part of the cage matches just because your the most powerful character in the matches doesn’t mean you will win. It is a part of what you need to win but there is more to it. The popularity of the books, the popularity of the character in the book, how well people know about the character, how powerful the character is they all play roles in deciding a winner. The biggest reason for these cage matches though is to get people to start reading authors and books that they might not have read otherwise. And this tournament does a great job of that.

    So thanks for the great tournament Suvudu and I will definatly be back next year. 🙂

  • Yea… no.

    @TroubleMaker

    What do you have to say about the matches against Gimli or Harry Potter? No one can say Kylar can win a popularity contest against LOTR or HP fanbases.

  • WoT4Ever

    @castleguard

    Aslan would insta-lose to anyone with Balefire.

  • Tharkun

    Of course this is a mix of a popularity contest and abilities but probably mainly a popularity contest (How could Granny loose ;-)) . I have read both series. I think most of the write ups concentrate a little too much on balefire and the kakari. Moiraine is one of the most creative magic users in the Wot world. She uses a lot of different spells (weaves) in creative ways in the series, so it is a bit over simplistic to suggest that she can only beat Kylar with balefire. In a fight it would come down too how quickly Kylar moves in for the kill and how quickly Moiraine realizes that direct magic doesn’t work. Both win if they surprise the other and know of the others abilities before hand.

  • TroubleMaker

    Yes….no.
    he won becoz those Fanbases are no where near as active as WoT fanbase…and neither of their Main sites nor author no FB pages posted about it.
    WoT fanbase on the other hand is active…specially as small groups on FB….and can be woken up to about.

  • Not Telling

    Most Annoying Person Here: WoT4Ever. I don’t care if he’s a troll trying to give WoT fans a bad rep or just a diehard WoT fan, he’s started to get annoying.

    That being said, I have more stuff to say. I’m suprised no-one tried to reach an agreement on what Balefire can do. Even though it’s a bit late, how about this; the Ka’kari can withstand Balefire for about a second or two. After that, it’s put out of the fight. So, a glancing or short hit will not destroy it. A direct, long hit will. This way, both fans get the result they want. First, NAT fans have Balefire being blocked, but only for a few seconds, and WoT fans have the Ka’kari destroyed, but only after a few seconds. Is this good enough for everyone to agree?

  • Umair

    I’m just glad that Brent Week,s NAT and Kylar got some exposure 🙂 They’re both awesome characters from amazing series written by fantastic authors.

  • Correction: Of the three WOT characters who have ever entered the Suvudu cagematches, two have had the power to use balefire, one did not. Rand Al’Thor won the first cagematch tournament, which was rather appropriate since he is the Dragon Reborn and the Creator’s Champion in the battle to save the world. He is a channeler and knows the weave for balefire. He is actually quite practiced in using that particular weave and has quite a superior ability in it’s use. Moiraine Damodred, Aes Sedai of the Blue Ajah who won this year’s tourney, is also a channeler with the ability to use balefire weaves. She is also very practiced in the use of the balefire weave but not nearly as strong as Rand. She is also more cautious about using balefire since she takes the consequences and potential damage to the Pattern from it’s use very seriously whereas Rand just kind of lets fly where it will. Perrin Aybarra, who fought in last year’s tournament and lost in the semi-final to Quick Ben from the Malazan series, is not a channeler and cannot use the balefire weave. However, he has other abilities that given the right circumstances, can easily overwhelm balefire and render it completely useless when used against him. Balefire is no guarantee of a win in these matches and claiming that the match ups are ‘unfair’ if one participant is able to use balefire is absolutely ridiculous! Yes, balefire is a devastating weapon that makes it’s user almost invincible in a fight. However, there is a whole lot of room to maneuver and manipulate forces much stronger than balefire in that ‘almost’! I think everyone will find out just how much room there is when next year’s bracket is announced and we see WOT’s Mat Cauthon on the list of competitors! Mat is also a nonchanneler so he cannot use balefire, making that argument completely pointless. But his phenomenal level of popularity amongst WOT characters will definitely show itself to be a far more devastating weapon than just using mere balefire in a fight! Unlike Perrin, who suffers from the unfortunate drawback of being saddled with a very unpopular wife that few fans can stomach, Mat’s popularity in the series is without a doubt the highest of all the multitude of WOT characters. In fact, Mat is probably even more popular with WOT fans than even Rand Al’Thor, hands down! If you thought trying to fight the good fight in the face of the WOT fanbase was difficult before, just wait! You ain’t seen nothing yet!

  • Not Telling

    And thats why I said no Mat next year. I don’t want WoT to win EVERY SINGLE YEAR. So far, they have 2/3, so it’s apparent that they don’t need to win next year. Repeating it for good measure, NO MATRIM CAUTHON!
    OK, now that that’s out of my system, let me defend my argument. This is suppose to be who we think would win a fight. The problem is, WoT fans come and turn this into a popularity match. It wasn’t one in the first place, until they made it one. Last year, they decided that Perrin wasn’t deserving, so they didn’t make it into a popularity match. However, if Mat shows up, well, he’ll win every match win 30000 votes. That may or may not be an exageration, but I think it could quite possibly happen.
    Now, as a note to WoT fans, flames will be used to roast marshmellows.

  • CrazySage

    @not Telling…
    you are now finding WoT4Ever annoying?…you have lots of patience.
    he is an as*hole trying to give WoT fans a bad name….even Light blinded idiot would see that….seven hells…even Elaida would see that…and he is probably a Malazan fan.
    (i don’t wannapoint fingers, but i say this because WoT4Ever came to comments after Moiraine Defeated Rake).

  • WoT4Ever

    @ Crazysage

    Lol Wow, that hypocrisy is deafening… and that’s hard to do on a message board.

  • Nick

    @Rock
    Blow me. I use ellipsis(that’s that what they are called) to annoy a friend of mine. he was sitting there yelling at me to stop using them. Get over it buttercup

    @Bradleelee
    No she won’t be a badass in other books. But in WoT she is. And that is where the fight took place. Was in *her* world. Home field advantage FTW.

    @Not Telling
    SO match him up with another popular character like Eddard Stark or Jon Snow. Or any other popular character you can think of. Cause it is a popularity contest. WoT is one of the best scifi/fantasy series out there…

    @Everyone
    The creator. ROBERT JORDAN himself has stated this time after time. The One Power is *NOT* Magic. So Kylar can not absorb the weaves.

  • @ Not Telling

    Don’t forget, if enough rage is directed at a specific party, the exact opposite to what you want will likely come about.

    *Kind-of-maybe-SPOILERS-ahead-but-only-if-you’ve-not-read-WoT-at-all*

    I think Mat is a perfect contender for this competition. He isn’t a channeller, and he’s not an over-powered fighter like Kylar (no offence intended).
    Yet he’s similar to Kylar, in that he has his own amulet that may or may not absorb other magics: we don’t know a whole lot about that fox-head medallion. He’s also quick-witted and intelligent, and the little perk he gets in the way of “luck” could be a deciding factor. Remember, it doesn’t work every time.

    To be honest, I think this competition was flawed from the start. It was blatantly obvious it would become a popularity contest: just as everything is, where voting is involved. Perhaps a better idea would have been to propose the match-up, then ask readers to discuss it on a forum first? Reps for each character/fanbase could be selected, and the winner decided between them, and THEN the write-up could be posted, along with the reasoning behind the winners. This would certainly avoid the raging fanbases on the comment threads, at any rate.

  • CrazySage

    @WoT4Ever you just proved what i just said.

  • Bradleelee

    Just to clarify in regards to The Black. It just devours. It is easy to say that it devours “magic” because that a common form of direct energy, but really it just devours any energy going at it. So it really doesn’t matter what the One Power is, it eats it and gives the power to its “host.”

    @Nick
    You missed the point about her being powerful in her world and maybe not in others. It isn’t that she has the home field advantage, it is that in other universes there are much more powerful beings. I will try to break it down again. Take some of the magic in A Song of Ice and Fire, it is really subtle with hints of being powerful. So if you take the strongest person in that universe against one of the weaker ones in say WoT, WoT would crush them. Now do the same with Malazhan. Except this time put one of the strongest people in Malazhan against a badass in WoT. I will randomly pick Anomander Rake. He is only a 300,000 year old God(ish) who has perfect swordsmanship in virtually every style, ridiculous magic, a floating fortress, and can turn into a dragon. Something about him being the son of Darkness probably has a little to do with this. Anyways, pick someone from WoT (it really doesn’t matter who), or NAT, or many other series and they are crushed by him. There isn’t even a contest. No brainer. If you can’t understand this simple fact of a badass in one universe could be trivial in another simply based on their abilities, then I simply don’t know how your logic works. Because there can’t be any.

  • WoT4Ever

    @Crazysage

    ‘Proved’?! That’s some pretty fuzz math right there…

    You just went ‘You were in Detroit when that man was killed in Michigan, so you must be the murderer. Case closed.’

    You MIGHT want to recheck the definition of the word ‘proved’.

    And again, the hypocrisy is that you would condemn me for saying the same things that DOZENS of other WoT fans on here are saying, just because you don’t like the WAY I’m saying it… How very self-aggrandizing of you to decide that YOU set the acceptable standard for the manner of which somebody tells somebody else that ‘You just got your butt kicked because you were in a fight you had no chance to win against my peeps’.

  • ZZ

    The one power will be useless against the devourer; it will come down to a melee battle in which Kylar has the advantage… Kylar wins

  • Rysan

    Kylar lost and that’s that. Obviously he doesnt have as much fan followers as Moiraine. If its about powers/skills anyone can write about a character that has a million years of experience and that has items to reflect or absorb all magic.Maybe make him immune to poisons or weapons, give him super strength. Its all about popularity.

  • HellsKitten

    Kyler would win, her power could not hold sway against the black ka’kari and its ability to devour energy. She may have gotten more votes here but in a true battle between the two Kyler has every advantage.

  • Capndisco

    Kylar can devour magic, has a large range of fighting skills, can make himself invisible, and fears the woman fighter(Virdiana). Win.

  • Golophin

    If the ka’kari absorbs energy/magic/whatever (similar to the Foxhead Medallion), I’m pretty confident Moraine would have figured that out pretty quickly. She’d probably move to using the One Power to move other things, like rocks, and propel them at Kyler. It does not seem the ka’kari would stop physical attacks from hitting him, or am I mistaken?

    It would appear that the fight would boil down to Moraine using the One Power to throw things at Kyler and using Air to sheild herself from his attacks, while at the same time he used superior agility and swordsmanship to deflect her attacks. In the end I’d have to give it to Moraine solely because I think she could outlast him in this scenario. I may be wrong and would love to know why.

  • GraakosGraakos

    The ka’kari can absorb an unlimited amount of magic, and it gives that magic to Kylar to use. It also gives him a bunch of other neat things, like letting him coat himself with it and eat whatever hits him (within reason; like when a throwing knife is hurled at him), giving him night vision, and letting him see unrepentant sin.

    Kylar can throw the ka’kari around, making a him-sized hole in anything she throws (he does this to a tree at high speed in the book). Honestly, I don’t know how this would go. Never read the WoT, but from what I’ve heard, Moiraine is just crazy strong, so it might be dumb luck that either side wins.

  • Metacognition

    Just came back to see how things were brewing and to answer your question, Golophin, the Ka’Kari is also called the Devourer. It eats THROUGH the magic, so while I’d be willing to give Moraine some chance with the ability to throw objects around (I’ve read both series, btw), her shielding would be as weak a shield as paper. A standing shield made of magic is just as vulnerable as a weave against the Ka’Kari.
    She’s good, but too many WoT fans give her far more credit than she deserves.
    *SPOILERS*
    She’s been trapped for most of the series, which is relevant when you consider the discoveries made during that time, yet most people think she’d have the full knowledge of the Tower at her disposal AND would be able to use them. /END SPOILERS
    In the end, you have to read it to see for yourself, so if you haven’t, I extremely recommend Brent Weeks’ Night Angel Trilogy.

  • SandmanDREAM19

    I’m 90% sure that Kylar would win in this situation. I haven’t read the other series but all i know is that she uses a lot of magic and The Ka’kari eats that making a match with Kylar nearly physical skill (which he is a professional at). So I even though the fans decided his fate i still think that he would have won.

  • Kylar Stern

    I know for a fact Kylar would win (yes, my real legal name IS Kylar Stern) His Ka’Kari devours and eats magic. He could walk through her air weaves or “shields” and strangle her. *SPOILER* He has the Black Ka’Kari, Retribution, and somewhere in the end of the Night Angel Trilogy, he probably has Curoch *END SPOILER*. He would annihilate her with his eyes closed, Sorry Morraine Damodred, but he would win. And he should have been the Champion

  • Shadeslayer

    Damodred could win. Stern could win. It depends on whether th Ka’kari could eat the Balefire weave. The Balefire weave is magical, so the Ka’kari could theoretically eat it. The Balefire weave erases you from existence, so would it destroy the Ka’kari?

  • Ezio Auditore da Firenze

    I would like to first congratulate Moiraine Damodred for her victory, she clearly has the people on her side. I personally favour my good friend and the best “assassin” I know, Kylar Stern, apparently he does not like the term, he prefers Wetboy for some strange reason but I digress. Even though Moiraine was the victor it does not mean that Kylar is gone. The competition is over but he will be back and we all know it. Well done Kylar for making it this far and well done Moiraine for being the only being strong enough to defeat him. Oh no, the Templars are here, I must flee… sexily.

  • Seth Jen

    Just pointing out that we don’t know what balefire does to the fox head or cuendilar. Sterns Kari Kari eats magic but every object has its limit. Kylar is in the tower and is thus to some extant part of the wheel now. Balefire sears things out of the patern in other words it can’t be devoured

  • Akmea

    Seth Jen, we actually do know what Balefire does to Cuendilar. Nothing. Happened when the Black Ajah woman, Jeanine something, used it on Nynaeve in Tanchico. The cabinet, the wall, everything was destroyed by the Balefire terangreal, but the cuendilar in the cabinet just dropped to the floor. Nynaeve even notices and comments mentally that not even balefire can destroy cuendilar.

    As for me, I give my support to Moiraine because Kylar wouldn’t see her as one of the coranti.

  • sim

    even if kylar died he would just come back to life in a few days. the kakari makes him more or less immortal

  • Greg

    Kylar stern would win. Reason 1: is immortal. That doesn’t mean he can’t die but he can come back to life. Reason 2) his training. He would have found out every little detail about his ‘Deader’ or opponent. He would have known about the balefire weave and would take steps to counter it before he made his move. Reason 3) His kakari ‘The devourer’. It was made to absorb ANY and ALL magic. It was fuelled by the magic it absorbed so the more magic the stronger it would become. Reason 4(If we go by the fan made fiction above) Moiraine was poisoned. Her weave would fail due to the Kakari so she is done no matter if she fends off Kylar or not. If she some how beats Kylar and goes through his things he would have Falsely labeled them (so this exact situation wouldn’t happen) and made the poison violently react to anything but the antidote and vise versa. Reason 5) * MAJOR SPOILER* Kylars life. Kylar finds out from the ‘Wolf’ that every time he ‘dies’ and is ressurected, a loved one must die to balance out the lack of death. Kylar would take every step humanly possible after all the careless mistakes and times he’s ‘died’. At this point, if Moiraine could get past the poison and the Kakari, Kylar would flat out refuse to lose and would ether fight harder and win, or retreat and attack at a better time.

  • TraceurPunk

    Kylar, almost outright. *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT*
    The Black Ka’kari is the Devourer, and the Sustainer. It devoures magic like nothing, and physical things only slightly less. Only Retribution wasn’t dulled by The Black. It would also use the magic is devoured to sustain Kylar’s life, even to the point of creating another limb, if Kylar ever lost one.
    Kylar can go completely invisible, The Black devouring the light.
    Kylar is a Wetboy, not a silly assassin. He’d learn all there is to know about his Deader, and precede to plan, back-up plan, and back-up the back-ups.
    His sheer physical strength and stamina would probably outlast a poisoned person’s, depending on the poison. And besides, he can make a poison that will kill if it reacts with anything other than the antidote, which he wouldn’t give her. So even if she somehow managed to kill him, she’d still die. And He’d come back. Immortality. Sorry, lady, you probably woulda gotten yer butt handed to ya.

  • Volkai

    So, what happens when Balefire burns the black ka’kari from existence? Keep in mind that balefire’s effect travels backwards in time, meaning it affect you before it hits you.

    What can Kylar do WITHOUT his Black Ka’kari? Is he still immortal without it?

  • Masked Man

    pathetic. having read both series, there’s literally nothing Moiraine Damodred could do against Stern. It’s like pitting a human being in a concrete room with a lion. It’s just not gonna fucking happen. The human can definitely have tons of experience in fighting, but it boils down to the fact all the human can do is piss of the lion, where as the lion only needs one bite to insure it’s victory. A mage can use all it wants, but it barely affects the killer. The killer is a mage AND SWORDSMAN. The mage can’t hurt the wetboy, only able to see an invisible demon which would’ve simply devoured any magic in the way than stab her. Balefire keeps getting brung up, yet wasn’t magic can’t hurt a magical item that’s made for devouring magic already established? All Kylar has to do is stab her, Retribution or Curoch will make tons of problems. She wouldn’t even be able to heal, because it’s Curoch. Even if somehow the Balefire spell kills Jorsin or someone all the way back than do you realize how quickly Stern is? Would be 5 seconds. Balefire, really fast running, gutted like a fish. Lots of people overrating Moiraine.

  • The Nightfall

    Yeah, like most of Kylar’s fan I think he would won.
    Probabilly Moiraine won just because she have a lot of fan, but c’mon.. let’s face the reality. No matter how powerfull a mage is. The ka’kari eat the magic and physical object whitout limits. And, just to clarify, a swordman, however expert he/she can be, will never make it agaist a killer trained to find and hit the weak points of the enemy.
    For me, and many other, Kylar wins.
    And I’m happy to see so many comments who supports our Night Angel.

  • WoT4Ever

    Stop hating guys… anyone from WoT is going to beat pretty much anyone from any other series… they’re simply on a different level. Especially the people who can use Balefire.

  • NAT4Ever

    @Wot4Ever
    Just because a character is from WoT doesn’t mean it “automatically” wins. It’s only because the WoT fanbase is so large. And besides, you’re giving all of the WoT fan base a bad name. I feel ashamed to admit I read the series, only because of the disturbances YOU have caused.
    And “Balefire” doesn’t make all the difference, when Moiraine went against Rake, she had to find another way to beat him, as he resisted the balefire. The reason WoT won is because it is more popular.
    And as for the “ka’kari vs balefire” thing, we have to remember that balefire is supposed to destroy all things (except for cuellindar), and the ka’kari does count as a “thing”. If I remember, it can only absorb so much stuff at once, and the excess is bled out. In this case, the excess balefire would not bleed out, but just destroy the ka’kari.
    Don’t take this personally, I just felt it needed to be said.

  • Appreauntis

    I am writing this after A Memory of Light came out.

    Balefire is just another weave, still part of the One Power, therefore the Ka’Kari could eat it.

  • DoM

    The thing is, the results we got are not from the fight. The results we got show us which character would be missed more. And in this case, who probably is missed more.
    I’m sorry to all the people who believe that balefire would destroy the ka’kari, because it wouldn’t. It is a part of the one power, making it a form of energy/magic/whatever you like to call it. The Black devours everything, magical or physical, whatever it wants. Kylar wasn’t even using it during the ‘battle’ (can’t say there was a lot of it), so it would have at least slowed the blast down.
    As it’s written, he already started the final blow. Even if he got killed, there was no way she’d survive, and we all know who of the two would come back frome the dead.
    Another thing I should point out, is that every time Kylar dies, he comes back more powerful, the ka’kari stronger. Also, he knows that his death means someone he loves’ death, so he’d have more to lose= more determination to win, even if it was weakened by the fact that she didn’t deserve to die.
    As for her attack, it might be so powerful nothing could stop it, but the ka’kari is almost like a living being. Yes, it would probably get destroyed before it could devour all that there was from the exceeding energy, but no one seems to consider the fact that Kylar would use the power immediately. If he was the one attacking, he must have prepared himself. And a wetboy does not take chances. He’d know her power and would not attack unless he didn’t know how to counter that. He was not stupid.
    Besides, the Wolf has told him, that the ka’kari can devour, but it doesn’t always do it. If he was able to use it (in theory) to go through an object, why not a mass of energy that is any sort of magic?

    Still, I’m not saying that she couldn’t win. In different circumstances, maybe yes, but as the things are put here, she doesn’t stand a chance. The home field advantage does nothing here, as the fight is just not long enough. Even if somehow Kylar didn’t finish his blow and would doge the balefire instead, he’d be back in several seconds or just use a throwing knife before she could see he moved. Still an awesome character.

  • Lets face it

    In any case, regardless of any effect, whether it can travel backwards in time or not, Balefire’s essence is magical. If it tries to act on something, its essence is magical.

    The Black Ka’kari has no limits in terms of the amount of magic it can absorb (and even if it did, more powerful magic =/= more magic necessarily). Before balefire can do anything, it has to exist, and when it contacts the holder of the ka’kari, regardless of time, it would be devoured. (I’m also pretty sure she needs to know where they are, so Kylar’s limitless stealth and invisibility would affect that)

    This poll is old, but I’m disappointed it has official response.

    In addition, just as Kylar dealt with one of the previous sorceresses he faced, they were poisoned before they ever reached the fight. The moment Kylar became concerned about “balefire,” he would’ve taken steps to take a new route to kill her. Such as the same quip he used to kill Harry. A ka’kari coated anything would blast through magical barriers or senses. He has an arsenal of options and she has no way to stop in outside of a fair fight.

    And Kylar Stern don’t need no fair fight.

  • Archon

    Yeah, I strongly suspect that this is why Wheel of Time was not represented in the two most recent cage matches…

  • Josh

    I’ll admit I haven’t read some of these other series but one thing people seem to be forgetting about Kylar and the Ka’kari is that it does more than just dissipate magic only when it touches him. With the Ka’kari Kylar can basically exterminate any magic within 30 or so feet of him with a thought.

    Remember near the end of way of shadows when Kylar thought the sisters had stolen Retribution?

    Ariel had him in chains, Kylar got pissed and suddenly everyone in the whole rooms talent was emptied. Same with Istariel, she had all her talent ready to level him, he blew at her and it was gone.

    Any magic that works at all in any kind of way like that Kylar can dissipate. If she were using a store of magic to throw things? Kylar can completely get rid of it. If not he can still interrupt the process quite a bit while she’s trying, she picks something up with magic, poof devoured.

    This is the same reason I think Kylar might have beaten Cale. If his healing is at all magical Kylar can negate it.

    Again I haven’d these other books, so if their mechanics work very differently then maybe they could beat him.