Cage Match — Round 5 — Granny Weatherwax versus Kylar Stern


The Contestants


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Click to view original image source

Esmerelda “Esme” Weatherwax
Age: It’s rude to ask a Witch her age
Race: Witch
Weapons / Artifacts: Flying broomstick

Kylar Stern
Age: 20s
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Knives; throwing spikes; sword…pretty much any weapon
Black ka’kari

The Breakdown


  • Incredibly powerful witch
  • Particularly skilled at tricking people without using magic
  • Can “Borrow” another’s senses

  • Powerful Talent (magic)
  • Skilled assassin
  • Has endured much in the way of pain and heartbreak

  • Committed to doing “Right”

  • Somewhere, deep down, he’s got a bit of a conscience


How we think the fight will go

The arena was abuzz with anticipation, hoping finally to see Granny Weatherwax actually fight someone this time.

They weren’t disappointed…too much.

She looked slightly ridiculous as she swung the massive sledgehammer down on Kylar’s head, but not quite as ridiculous as the young man who simply stood there, catching the full brunt of the heavy weapon. With a sickening crunch, Stern’s skull was nothing but the container for blood pudding–and not the kind you’d find in a delightful Irish breakfast.

Later, when all the fans clamored that the black ka’kari would never have let such a thing happen, Granny simply shrugged and pointed out that what happened happened. With a nod of her head, she referred them to the neck and torso lying prone on the floor of the arena, and the pool of gore that seemed to flow from the top of it.

“Seriously, though–the black ka’kari makes Kylar invincible,” a fan said.

Granny sighed, as if the proof wasn’t in the–ahem–blood pudding. She tapped a long finger against her temple.

“Listen, sonny. If I say a thing is so, then it’s so. And if I happen to convince someone that something is so, then it’s so, too.

“Now the black ka’kari is a nice-enough sort–although a bit disrespectin’ in my opinion. So when I suggested to it that this Stern character was a bad seed, it listened. When I also told it that treating people like objects is sinful, would you believe it was ashamed?

“Well of course it was! Shameful thing, acting like people is things. People are people, and there ain’t no nevermind about that!”

The disbelieving fan stared at her with his jaw agape. “You…you…”

“Spit it out, boy. I ain’t got all day.”

“You used Headology on the black ka’kari?”

“If you say so.”

“And it just left Kylar?”

She simply shrugged.

“But that’s impossible!”

“If you say so.”

“No–seriously. It’s impossible! And even if it wasn’t, Kylar still is one of the most skilled, fearsome fighters ever.”

“Didn’t seem like that to me,” Granny huffed.

“But…but…,” the fan spluttered.

“Listen: power is power. And I ain’t one to brag, but if Death doesn’t scare me, do you think a young man will? Do you think a bit of black goo will? Maybe the ka’kari is a bit more naive than you or I think. And maybe Kylar thought I couldn’t hurt him, because he had the ka’kari–even though he didn’t. And maybe he thought he’d just come back to life after, being so ‘immortal’ and all. And maybe…”

“But that’s bull–”

Granny slapped him across the mouth. She narrowed her eyes on the fan.

“If you want bull, I can give you a bull,” she said menacingly. “Maybe turn you into one–with some nice pink bows to go with it.”

The fan shook his head rapidly from side to side.

“Good. Then none of that gutter-talk from you.” She relaxed, and looked at the fan speculatively. “So what did you see today?”

“That–even as impossible as it seems–” and at this the fan flinched, expecting Granny’s wrath, but she only stood there, calmly. Relieved, the fan continued. “That, as crazy as it seems, you bashed Kylar’s head in with a sledgehammer.”

“Well, if you saw it that way,” she said, smiling, “then that’s how it must have happened.”

Predicted Winner: Granny Weatherwax


Check out the previous Semi-Final match!

Check out the Bracket

The Finals start April 9th, so be sure to check in to see who will be Cage Match 2012 Champions!

Granny Weatherwax is a character from the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett; Stern is a character from the Night Angel series by Brent Weeks.

Granny image courtesy of Victor Gollancz, Ltd. Kylar Stern image courtesy of *syku-wolf.

Don’t forget–we’re always looking for fans’ depictions of these characters. Check out the details here

Cage Match fans: We are looking forward to hearing your responses! If possible, please abstain from including potential spoilers about the books in your comments (and if you need spoilers to make your case, start your comments with: “SPOILER ALERT!”


  • KayFlame

    Now that’s sort of a depressing write up. Though I love how the Suvudu people who wrote this weeks fight poked fun at the slightly obsessive fanboys. The fanboys are great, but its still quite entertaining 🙂

  • Trevis

    Ummm….What the – – seriously???

    I’m flabbergasted and utterly stumped. So this “Granny” just whipped out a SLEDGE-HAMMER from her hand-bag and killed the most uber-assassin ever created in the last decade by mashing him over the head, whilst he stood still.


    I Lol, for 3 mins straight whilst reading this, I need to start reading Diskworld soon as.

  • TheO

    The problem with all the write up’s for Granny is you never see Granny Weatherwax do ANYTHING! It’s assumed that she is going to win but with no reason given to the win. My vote is for Kylar!

  • Kyo

    Um..simply outrageous! lol i think I’m geniunely dissapointed with this…guess it’s time to rally Kylar’s fanclub again >.>

  • wcarter4

    I’m voting for Kylar as the underdog in this fight. Granny probably could beat him and the write up was hilarious and fairly well done (Not an easy thing to do when your name is not Terry Pratchett), but I want to see what happens if Kylar goes up against the rabid fanboys of either the Wheel of Time of Malazan…

  • Nobbs

    No dozy assassin will ever get the the better of Granny!

  • Gundato

    As lame as that write-up is, I have to agree with the logic, if not the execution. The Black Ka’kari really doesn’t care how sick and twisted the person wielding it is (look at the two known wearers…), so long as the wielder is capable of powering it (read the books to find out what powers it).

    So it wouldn’t be a stretch to somehow use head magic to convince it that the Wielder was no longer worthy.

    That being said, I think it would take a finite amount of time to manipulate the ka’kari (if only to figure out where its consciousness is), and in that time Kylar could have stabbed her dead. Also, depending on when this battle takes place, Kylar might be immune to compulsions due to already being under the effect of an insanely powerful one.

  • Voight

    Kylar Stern gets my vote.

    We all get that Granny ‘has power’ but she never does anything accept talk gibberish. Let’s kill her off already,

  • chosen

    Well I always vote my favorite character, so I should not judge. But I have to say Granny could whipe the floor with Kylar, any vote for him is fanboy nonsense, which I support whole heartily.

  • Mess

    Wow, that was depressing. Very, very disappointing. I’ll take the jab at being a fanboy that argued in favor of Kylar in the bout with Cale. (Though I think there’s a difference between saying that something can’t have happened in the write-up and pointing out that a write-up isn’t making full or effective use of a character’s abilities.) But… seriously? Why make Kylar suffer because you think I’m a terrible human being?

    If Kylar loses this match, I would rather he had lost to Cale.

    I can’t help it, this just leaves me feeling kind of sick. I came here hoping the match and the discussions would be a bit of a pick-me-up after a really bad weekend and even worse morning, but now I just feel even worse than when I came here.

  • Bradleelee

    On the Writing:
    This follows the writing style of Discworld, so I would say the write-up itself was very well done. I enjoyed reading it and it sparked me into reading more of the Discworld universe.

    On the Content:
    It took me some time but I discovered what my issue is with Discworld; I don’t like the “magic.” While extremely entertaining and well written in the style, the magic system (not the writer) is simply ludicrous making wild assumptions on what will and will not work. For instance, headology works on the premise that you are convinced (or tricked into, depending on who you talk to) that something is fact. With you being convinced of this “fact”, it alters reality and makes whatever you were convinced of come true. If you make the assumption you can trick anyone into believing anything, then you will win every fight with this “magic.” Now I am not an expert on Discworld, and freely admit it, however I would like to point out that Granny decided to try to trick an “ancient and extremely powerful sentient being” (the Black) into not protecting Kylar or leaving it or whatever she did I am not sure. Also, I am pretty sure it has lived long enough to come to terms with its nature of “acting like people is things.” Maybe she tricked Kylar instead making him think it left him. Regardless, it doesn’t really matter which way it happened since Granny will always win if you base her “magic” on two premises: 1) She can trick anyone into thinking anything and 2) Headology is not a magical attack and cannot deflected/countered/blocked/devoured. Pretty sweet gig.

  • Silchaspurake

    I find it amusing that the people doing the right up are so biased. I thought the purpose of this was to showcase the characters and make fans of sci fi and fantasy interested in different authors.

    It is a shame that the writer then decides to poke fun at the fan base that frequents the site rather than deliver an interesting write up.

  • sacredhonour

    Ugh, another Granny write-up that kills me. I refuse to vote for someone who after 5 rounds I still know NOTHING about.

    But apparently she can swing a sledge-hammer really fast, as why would anyone just stand there and get hit?? No one would just stand there, and Kylar knows he is not physically invincible, so he especially would not just stand there.

    I am hoping Kylar slits her throat.

  • Bradleelee

    I wanted to make myself slightly more clear on how I thought this would go down (in a slightly sarcastic and exaggerated manner):

    Granny doesn’t talk to Kylar because she can’t see him.
    Granny doesn’t speak to Kylar because she doesn’t know he is there.
    Granny gets Retribution to the gut.
    Granny falls to the ground feeling very confused as to what just happened.

    Exaggerated you say? Never…

  • Darthcaz

    On problem. Yes, Granny might have been able to convince the black ka’kari to leave a host. But Kylar is not just any host. He was destined from birth to be the Night Angel, the final and greatest holder of the black and the embodiment of justice. You can’t just talk that away. Although I enjoy how the write-up side-stepped the whole, “Will the black be able to absorb Granny’s magic?” issue.

  • Samuel

    @ Silchaspurake: You do realize that write-ups featuring one character winning and another losing have been going on the whole damn tournament, right? Last week’s write-up had Kylar losing to Cale. What’s prompted all the “woe is me, no one understands my sweet, sweet Kylar’s badassery” stuff this time around? Is it his slightly undignified demise? Granny Weatherwax is a PRATCHETT character. She’s more comedy than fantasy. What’d you expect?

  • David

    I’ve never read either Discworld or Night Angel series. As an objective observer, I have to say that both have a premise that just seems wrong. Headology allows Granny to win any fight before it starts. The black Ka’Kari can consume anyone or anything. Sooner or later, there has to be limits to these abilities. In this case, I think Granny’s got the edge, but I think she loses to Rake in the end.

  • Stephen

    Pretty funny. Yes i read the Night Angel Trilogy. Yes I’m a big fan of Brent Weeks. (including his other book), but i’ve always liked Durzo more then Kylar. That punk brat never stood a chance against Durzo. All well. I’m voting for Kylar cause i sincerely think he could beat Granny based on my poor understanding of Granny. I’ve read all her fights, and I’ve gotten a somewhat generalized idea as to what she can do. Which is a lot. But she uses time(i may be wrong on that point) to convince people they are in the wrong. Which i find odd seeing as how they are all from different worlds, and they are just now meeting and i dont understand how she could find the time to convince them that they should all lose to her Granny awesomeness.

    this was merely an observation, i could be totally out of the ball park.

    *side note, I am not a fan boy. I just happen to root for Kylar.

  • Silchaspurake

    @ Samuel
    I expected an interesting write up that would showcase both characters. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear in my earlier post. Not really a fan of either tbh and so have no particular bias when it comes to the cage match. It just seems to me that the writer has come to the conclusion that it will come down to a popularity contest and thus decided to thumb his nose at one particular set of fans.

  • The Riddler

    can someone please explain what Granny can actually do? it is hard for me to vote for someone when no one is willing to explain their abilities

  • JOE

    Seriously, I think Granny’s the one with a fanboy problem. I haven’t read either books. ALL of Kylar’s write-ups, even the ones that predicted his loss, convinced me of one thing: HE IS EPIC and NO ONE in the cage match can lose to him.
    Granny’s have ALL been bogus and made me scratch my head when I saw that she had won. She gots the fanboys. If Kylar wins, its out of skills, not out of having more fans. If thats what this was, we’d be seeing Harry Potter in this match.

  • Jack

    I think honestly what this vote will come down to is who we want to set against Rake, and when you think about it like that, the choice (at least for me) becomes obvious. Granny’s write-ups have all been clever, true. They’ve all made me smile, and they’ve stayed close to the style of the universe from whence she came. However, none of them are very EXCITING, and that’s what I read the write-ups for. Granny Vs. Rake would undoubtedly be very meta, and at least mildly amusing. Kylar Vs. Rake, on the other hand, would be an insane melee of magic and might; one to be remembered for thousands of years. That’s why I’m voting for Kylar: because he’ll give us a FIGHT, rather than a riddle. Also if he wins I’d like Abyss to do the write-up, he or she has shown outstanding range and fantastic imagination, and a battle between the universe’s greatest assassin and a veritable god deserves no less.

  • JOE

    I already tried to comment this, but I don’t see it now so I’m going to type it again. If I can remember exactly what I said…
    Honestly, I think Weatherwax is the one with overactive fanboys. How on earth did she even make it this far? All her write-ups so far firmly convinced me that she should lose… Except MAYBE the Napoleon one, but only barely. She has an ARMY of fanboys.
    On the other hand, I’ve never read any of Kylar’s books either. I came into this unbiased. I still think that Gimli should have won that first round. A part of me died when I voted for him instead of Harry Potter. But its not a popularity contest. Thats why I didn’t vote Harry. Thats why Harry ISN’T here now.
    And that’s why Kylar will win. 😀

  • Ilidsor

    That was the worst write up. Ever. The logic was ridiculous. It admits what just happened was impossible then it defends itself with circular logic; saying it was possible because it just happened and it just happened because it was possible. That was the most obvious favoritism ever.

  • Laurie

    Disappointing write-up, but, frankly, no one but Pratchett can do Granny right, and the man’s a freakin’ genius, so I can’t expect anyone else to do it.

    For those who complain because they can’t get a sense of Granny from the write-ups, the answer is, you can’t. You have to read the books. If you haven’t read Carpe Jugulum or The Sea and Little Fishes, or the other major Granny books, you don’t know the character, which is fine, but don’t insult the people who have read her when we say she’d win. (Personally, I was hopeing for a Granny-Zaphod finals, but Zaphod didn’t make it.)

    Pratchett is the greatest fantasy writer currently writing. The man’s been given a knighthood for it, fergawdsake. There’s a reason. Check him out.

  • Trevor

    why didnt kylar just take a step back and not get brained by the witch?

  • The Riddler


    someone could at least explain her abilities so those of us who haven’t read the books you mentioned would have at least some idea of how she would do against the various opponents in this cage match

  • Zangetsu

    Is it just me who is completely confused? I understand that in the last write up there was a huge fan boy clash between kylar and cale fans but why dedicate a whole write up to it. I just read the Rake v Moraine match up, superb but this just seemed so lazy. If they are gonna have weatherwax win why not at least show us how the magic works. I have love most write up so far but unless this was done with an ironic purpose then it just seems pointless.

    I love both weeks and pratchetts books, so why not try to do them some justice because this was not the least bit enjoyable to read.

  • James

    I wanna see Granny Weatherwax fight Anomander….she should win just for that reason xD

  • Huh

    “I’m voting for Kylar cause i sincerely think he could beat Granny based on my poor understanding of Granny.””??????????? That’s odd.

    “HE IS EPIC and NO ONE in the cage match can lose to him.” I agree, I also think no one in the cage match can lose to him.

    I’ve read both and yeah, Granny wins, hands down. And fanboys are being picked at because they’ve shown they deserve it.

  • david

    i think this cage match has inspired me to never read a single book in the discworld series… if this is how fights are done in that world i guess its just not my style of writing. I like the character and i think her and kylar would have an epic fight but in the end she seems more like a sadistic dungeon master then a character from a fantasy novel. Pretty much when i think of her i think of that GM who is constantly abuseing the fact that they know everything about the world your in so that they can kill you. As far as a cage match goes her write ups bore me so im gonna continue voting kylar and hope for an epic ending battle.

  • YThis was the worst write up I’ve seen so far. Kylar, as usual, gets my vote. At least until he gets to rake, I’ll have ti seriously consider it then.

  • mundanename

    Kylar all the way!

    That said, this is totally cracking me up.

    Guys! Read that last sentence again. Get it now? She used her power to trick all the fans into thinking she won. She even picked a totally ridiculous manner to win in.

    And it is working! So far every single commenter has fallen for it. Too funny!

    Great write up =)

    It just leaves out the ending though where Kylar removes the magic from the fans and they all charge Granny in a rage and rip her apart.

  • bartios

    im going to read the diskworld series. But, the point is that the ka’kari is probably older than granny. We don’t no how old it is but it seems plausible that it exists for eons already. and it will stay with kylar as long as he is able to love somebody.

    that is a really interesting possibility. and it is a plausible one too because it is much easier to let everybody think you won then to actually win…

    a really fun write up!

  • Sir Read-a-Lot

    I’ll admit to being a fanboy.

    But the thing about Granny is that she believes that loosing is for other people. It’s not something she does. And she’s powerful enough that when she refuses to lose, she doesn’t. Her willpower is so strong you could bend steel around it.


    She got bitten by a vampire in Carpe Jugulum. She wasn’t vampirized – the vampires were Weatherwaxed.

    This is pretty much the essence of witching on the Disc (Granny’s style of witching, anyways). Granny’s protege, Tiffany Aching, doesn’t have a talent for witching (her talent is for cheesemaking). But she took witching by the throat, and took it anyways, and she’s the most powerful witch of her generation.

    This is why we support Granny, even in the face of people who seem much more powerful than her. Witching is about choosing the outcome you want, and making it happen.

    I do think the sledgehammer was slightly far fetched though. Funny, but far fetched.

  • PrinceInTheSpring

    I LIKE THIS WRITEUP!!! See, at least this one gave a a glimpse into how Granny made it happen instead of just telling us that it happened. I think this is a much better writeup for Granny than any other from the tournament, and it has earned my vote! Well done Suvudu!

  • It looks like Kylar is going to win this one. The only person who could beat him in this Cage Match is Rake.

  • Logan

    Calm down folks, the author is just poking fun at the Kylar fan boys that was up in arms in the last round because Kylar lost in the story where he was clearly over match.

    The fact is Kylar fan boys think Kylar’s omnipotent no matter who the opponent is.

    For Example @Lee Monroe (Big Kylar fan boy) says he will seriously have to consider it once it gets to Rake.. A being that’s over 100,000 old vs 20 year old kid.

    And yes I’ve read both the malazan and night Agent. Its not even close……

    now watch kylar fan boys cry after this post…How dare you make fun of my favorite character.. boo whoooo 🙁

  • D.I. Waisanen

    As the matches go on, these Kylar Stern matches are leaving me with an increasingly bad taste in my mouth. At first I was just a little disappointed that I got a parody of movie Gimli and a drinking contest with Harry Potter instead of actual fights, then one of the best characters who had some of the best write-ups lost to Kylar when it still seems more likely that Cale would have won. And all through it, I’m seeing more and more fanboys who shout in the comments “Duh, of course Kylar goes all the way! He’s invincible! No one can stop him!” and saying that they’ll never read the series of a character when they actually beat Kylar in the write-ups. I haven’t read the Night Angel Trilogy, but I’m becoming more and more certain that Kylar’s fans are doing him a disservice and that he’s being pushed farther than he would have gotten logically based on fan power.

  • Not Telling

    @Lee Monroe
    “The only peson who could beat him in this Cage Match is Rake.”
    Swap the COULD for WILL, and you have a more accurate statement. Sorry, but Rake is too powerful for all but Rand, and thats a maybe. Read Malazan and you’ll understand.

  • Plan R

    I give this one to the baddest witch in Bad Ass, Kylar would fail to show up to this match, having thought he had already lost by not showing up to the match and thus lose the match by forfeit. Don’t blame Granny for being Granny, she fits in nicely in her world, blame suvudu for envolving her in this fiasco. Beeblebrox is dead, nothing can stop her now.

  • Adar

    Hmm, this is a tough one. While Granny certainly would be capable of pulling it off, it all depends on which one of them is considered the protagonist of the story. ‘Theory of narrative causality’ is a strong factor for Discworld inhabitants.

  • King Verence

    Can’t believe people are thinking Granny would lose!!!

    She is the one that makes choices. She makes the choices that need to be made and she makes sure she makes the right choices. They are the right choices because she makes them and she is always checking to make sure she gets it right. When things are on the edge Granny is there making sure.

    As for Kylar and the Black Ka alari she would just take them to the door and set them off across the desert. She knows how to stop a life with her mind and her professional relationship with DEATH means that he would be there as always.

  • Nazaar

    I think the whole scenario is hilarious.

    “The fact is Kylar fan boys think Kylar’s omnipotent no matter who the opponent is.”
    Exactly. Even if their opponent is effectively omnipotent in their own reality. This IS a popularity contest. If it were people from the same universe then comparisons can be made objectively. Here it’s about fun and learning about new stories to read.

    The funniest/saddest bit is how bound up the fanboys are getting about how THE WRITE-UP went! Not even the result. The emotional energy expended in the name of defending a character they have read about (not even written themselves) is bewildering. Threatening to not read Discworld novels because the write-up is so apparently biased, like petulant little children. At 65million+ sales, and an objectively good set of novels, who are they punishing?

    How does Granny work? She works by not doing anything but talking (sometimes). In Discworld the more powerful the witch the less magic they actually do. It’s implied that she actually has a lot of magic that she can use, but thinks it’s cheating.

    The problem here is you’ve got someone with no quantifiable power up against the epitome of modern fantasy: the magic system is explained extensively, the fights are choreographed and described in detail, and the character starts from zero and ends up a god. Granny Weatherwax is a vehicle for comedy and moral object lessons. Kylar Stern is a vehicle for cool fight scenes and vicarious fantasy fulfillment.

  • Solecistic Peon

    I didnt read that Diskwhirl book but I read the Night Angel Trilogy and Kylar is so frickin awsom powerful cool dude because he has this black liquid metallic weapon thing on him JUST LIKE VENOM and he’s also like Ezio and Altair and Batman with cool martial arts skills and hes so frickin awesome and I just know hes going to win even thogh ive never read any of the other books on the suvudu site because face it people what can you do against an unbeatable asasssin with all these magic powers and i dont know how a silly granne from a book ive never read can do so many stupid things that arnt even funy up and say all these stupid things nobody understands and still come up against mothefin Kylar Stern the strongest fighting hero of all the six fantasy books ive read since hes basically overpowerd and everthing because no i dont need to read carp juglum and the sea or whatever because a stupid old lady is a stupid old lady who cannot compare to how awsome klyar is and you stupid peple should see from democratic vote with all the fans Kylar should win and becaus the only times ive seen grannye weatherwax fight on this site were so lame and how she beat all these other guys were stupid so Kylar should be the one who kills this stupid old lady who doesnt hav ANY idea what is going on around her i mean serious ly how can a witch fight a hidden asassin in a fight the asassin would just hide and stab her when she isnt looking and theres no possible way any character can face this situation in a book and live through it because i have read night angle trilogy and know from many experienced assasin stories that there is no way this should be able to happn and kylar is so overpowered he can just slit her and be done with it and because i know knothing about this stupid granie whoever she is and i dont care either and and i dont want to read diskwhirl because she sounds so stupid you all should see how silly it is for an old lady to win against a skilled battle harded asasin so just kill off this granne anyways shes long overdue for her death sentence and head magic si just this stupid idea thats not even magic so why would a stupid witch win anyways this is just so extremely silly i want to choke and what was with that write up it didnt make any sense and kylar is so fast he would dodge granny in the first place and kill her before she keeps talking because you dont talk in a fight and Kylar knows that and hes going to win against Ammonander and Morarin or whoever else because hes such a good asasin they wont even see him coming so just you wait and oh i already gave my vote to Kylar because he shouldnt be compared to some old book nobody reads.

  • CAD

    I think this write up is funny–I laughed a lot while I read it–but at the same time, it’s rather ridiculous. I can understand them sticking it a bit to the fans on this subject–except for the fact that what determines the outcome of these matches is the fact that THE FANS VOTE. It’s a fan choice, and so in retrospect, whether either of their skills would actually defeat the other has no bearing on the argument. It’s about who the fans choose to win, and that’s usually determined by who has read what series, or which series they prefer over the other. I appreciate snarkiness, and this writer is snarky, but I’m not finding it completely justified. If maybe the writers got together, or those that set up and host the cage match, and decided, based upon the characters’ actual abilities, who would win and who would lose, rather than letting the fans vote, then this would be justified if a bunch of fans started complaining. But as it is, this is all about fan choice, and if they want to complain because they feel a writer hasn’t done another writer’s character justice, or that one character should win over the other despite the predicted outcome, they have a right to.

  • Charles

    I’m going to start by admitting that I’ve only read the Night Angel Trilogy between these two characters, so feel free to dismiss everything I say as completely biased. I understand also that some of the claims that people make about Kylar are quite ridiculous. *Possible spoiler* He is not invincible as we saw that he can give the Ka’kari to Durzo in order for him to retrieve Curoch from Ezra’s woods. *End Spoiler alert*
    The write-up shows an obvious lack of effort by the author’s part. The black is, for all we know, one of the original beings of Kylar’s universe. It seems highly unlikely to me that this headology would be effective against something like that. Also, in most of the first book, Kylar operates without the ka’kari and has incredible fighting skills without them. As I said, I know very little about this witch character, but I have no doubt that she would be able to beat Kylar in an actual fight. Despite what the character analysis says, Kylar’s greatest weakness is that he is still very inexperienced and often makes subpar decisions off the battlefield. If any character could manipulate that, one who makes a name for herself by being preternaturally charismatic is the one who would (does the name Khali ring a bell to any Kylar fans?) However, my vote goes to Kylar for the lack of effort on the author’s part.

  • Mess

    Like I said before – I acknowledge that I’m a “fanboy,” based on the merit that I joined in the discussion in the Kylar/Cale fight. But I’ve never, not once, said that Kylar was unbeatable or would absolutely win. The only thing I EVER argued for was that it was inappropriate to declare a loss without pushing a character to their limit, and in the case of Kylar trying to illustrate what his limits truly were to the other fanboys who declared he had no chance whatsoever despite knowing little to nothing about him. I would have had no problem with him losing to Cale in the last match… but call me weird, I would have like to see it after a fight where both characters threw everything they had at each other. Or, if Cale was to be the one to win, see Kylar throw everything he had into the fight and see Cale actually overcome it.

    And that’s why this write-up leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. We’re given no idea what Granny is capable of except using circular logic and wielding a sledgehammer she keeps tucked away in her purse. Honestly, I’ve found a good many books I’d like to read from these write-ups (Kemp’s books featuring Cale currently being at the forefront), but I can’t say I have any interest in reading Granny’s books. It has nothing to do with Kylar losing in the write-up, or her fanboy’s declaring her to be a virtual goddess. I just can’t get any sense of who she is or what her books (and their plots) could possibly be like.

    If her author is as good as he’s claimed to be here in the comments, I think the true disservice is being done to him.

    Finally, if Headology is the ability to alter reality by convincing someone that things happened how you wanted them to happen (reminds me of the Izanagi ability from Naruto… yes, I’m an anime/manga fanboy too, try not to flame me too much for that), then…..
    Eh, forget about it. I was going to try to be clever using circular logic and Headology and the comment someone else made about the real targets of Headology being the readers. To borrow a quote from Ezra in Beyon the Shadows, “to turn the twisted back on the twister.” But frankly, I don’t want to get flamed for being a Kylar fanboy by the ardent fans of Granny Weatherwax.

  • Mess

    Bah, typos… the odd one aside, I feel compelled to fix the quote. It’s supposed to be “to twist the twisted back on the twister.”

    And to reinforce, I’m not trying to bash Granny or to trumpet Kylar over absolutely anything, I just wanted to say that I think they could have done more to make Granny captivating to those who aren’t already fans of her’s.

  • Disappointed…

    Although this was a very clever and witty write up, I thought it was way too biased towards Granny Weatherwax… Although Kylar IS immortal(with the black), he is very aware of the consequences of his immortality… being that every time he is brought back to life one of his loved ones dies. In the novels after learning of this he does his best to avoid dying. Even without the Black Ka’kari he wouldn’t stand still to get hit *ESPECIALLY if he didn’t know it had left him*

  • Sir Read-a-Lot

    Eh, if Kylar died and the ka’kari tried to claim one of his loved ones, Granny would stop Death, and force him to take Kylar instead.

    She’s done it before. Her 4 Queens beat Death’s 4 “ones”.

  • David

    So allot of people seem to be bitter that people are voting for the favorite chars to win… Wow really have you guys never been on the internet or something? Cage matches are about getting people to come and support there favorite series and learn about new series.
    I have voted for Kylar every round for multiple reasons starting with
    1. he is my favorite fantasy char (not just atm but of all time)
    2. His personality and powers make for fun write ups.
    3. his first 3 matches were completely unbalanced towards him and stood no logical chance.
    4. his latest fight had a very even fight with a character i didnt know allot about and from what people explained in the comments about cales powers it just seemed people were atempting to apply the DnD world to the fight and completely forgetting that terms from the series will not match up to each other.
    As to why i voted for him hear is because the author who wrote this write up was being an asshat in the write up on purpose because people asked for some explanation as to how granny would win the fight or how her powers work and instead of giving us an actual write up (which it could have been from kylars view and had him die and i would not care as long as i could finally gain some understanding of the granny characters powers) they instead decided to troll the fans and once again not give us anything to interest us in the discworld series. YES FANS WHO HAVE READ IT WILL LOVE THE STYLE BUT THE POINT IS TO BRING NEW FANS TO THE SERIES AND NOT ALIENATE THEM.

  • Dave

    Granny Weatherwax wins. I can’t honestly imagine a situation where she doesn’t, short of the universe itself ending.

  • Ryan

    dang, the granny weatherwax writeups are boring to read -_-
    wish they could have another write up like kemp’s
    at least there, no matter who won, everyone had a fun time reading it

  • Grrm Girl

    I am VERY pleased to see that Kylar Stern is winning this. I wonder how many of Stern’s votes are for him compared to the votes from people who just want to see Weatherwax out of the competition.

  • Chris

    I think I’m missing something with this headology business. The idea is that if you can convince someone something is true, it is true. It essentially makes for an excellent peaceful solution. The problem is that these fights are to the death, despite many write-ups involving resignations. No amount of headology convince someone to die, especially since Kylar has the Black’s influence. Headology shouldn’t work on the black either, simply because Granny and it will see the world so differently. It will be a bit like discussing advanged geological processes with someone from the sun. You have live on celestial bodies, but all similarities end there.

  • chosen

    I am so angry, how dare you say Kylar can’t win this match, he is my most favorite character ever, he is so kewl, everything he touches turns to gold, and has rainbows jumping out his bum. Anyone who doesn’t think this is a big stupid stupid head. I no like Granny, I cant figure out her power, if she roles D20 and has plus 2 ice to her sword, can she win? What level are her fire balls at, does she have +2 boots of agility? C’mon now help me out, I dont like to think, and if her power is not easily quantifiable, I have to think, which make my brain bucket hurt. In what way is her power quantifiable to a regular swords and sorcery character? Why cant this Pratchett guy write right. If her only power is convincing people they are stupid, then she is stoopid. I am going to punish her creator, by never reading his books, that will teach this Terry Pratchett guy a lesson, now he wont get my five bucks and will not be able to save the family farm. The millions of books he has sold will become meaningless, because I the 1 true Kylar fan refuses to read them. That’ll teach him to write a character for comedic and satire laden stories, this is a cage match, this is serious business.

    On my signal unleash the unwashed fanboy horde

  • Stephen


    Yes that is a bit odd, but unfortunately I have very limited knowledge of Granny. While she seems like a kick ass character, I have to give my vote to Kylar because i understand him, and from what i know of Granny, in this cage match he could whip her ass.

    They are all from different worlds and have never met each other, so Granny’s Headology wouldnt work very well since she had only just met Kylar and wouldnt have the proper time to mess with his head. I could be wrong, but from what all the fanboys for Granny are saying, and all her write ups. Thats what im getting from it.

    I could be wrong, and if i am. My sincerest apologies to Pratchett(?) I will be reading your books once i put down DragonRiders of Pern.

  • Umair

    I believe that Kylar would win this match. No, I’m not fanboy, but when Granny Weatherwax explained that she convinced the Black to leave Kylar was ridiculous.
    The Black is supposed to be an ancient being and even Durzo admitted that the Black was already an ancient sentient being when he first became the bearer. Besides, I really don’t think that it can leave since the only way to break the connection between the bearer and the Black would be if Kylar is killed by another wielding Curcoh or if Kylar suddenly stopped caring like Durzo did and started showing indifference when someone close to Kylar died.

  • Morgradin

    @ Umair
    I agree completely with you, the black shouldn’t be able with you, and whereas I don’t know the complete extent of Grannys powers, I still do believe that Kylar would’ve put up more of a fight than this..

  • Johnny


    You can thank the kylar fan boys for that they voted out Kemps character so he couldn’t continue his story. Having read both books from Brent Weeks and Kemp. I can safely say that Cale has the edge on that one. I’m surprise Kylar’s gotten this far. Powerful as he is he’s not very bright and make tons of mistakes that he wouldn’t of if he was older like Durzo.

  • Johnny


    You need to read more books dude. I can think off the top of my head, many more characters that are more charismatic than Kylar. Durzo being one, Cale, Riven, Rivalen, Drizzt, artemis Enteri, Jaxl, Rand, Anomander Rake, Toshi, Urza, the list goes on and on.

    Too eachs own though its a preference thing. I just find Kylar to be a little childest and his Best friend Logan is even worst (that do gooder nobility thing just stinks).

  • Kris10B

    Does “irony” or “satire” ring any bells here? Pratchett is one of the greatest satirist of modern day. I think you can probably read the fight sequences at attempts to write in Pratchett’s style.

    For what it’s worth, a Weatherwax never loses. Please read Equal Rites before deciding what Esme can or cannot do.


  • Darthcaz

    Average Kylar supporter’s comment: “Here’s why Kylar would win…”

    Average Granny supporter’s comment: “Here’s why Kylar fanboys are stupid.”

    Just saying, if you want people to vote for Granny, some concrete reasons beyond “Shut up, she’s awesome” would be nice.

  • Lathspell

    I though this was funny (using headology on the ancient Black? Really?) but I was pretty disappointed with the write-up. After hearing so many Granny fans say how she’s going to take it, I was really looking forward to seeing her in action. But this…is ludicrous.

    We didn’t really see a fight. It sucks.

    And there should definitely have been more of a display of both characters’ powers.

  • Weefreeman

    Granny is not a person whose power can be explained, Discworld novels are satire, you cant take her power at face value compared to someone like Kylar, its not explained what Granny’s powers are. Her power is pointless, she serves as an abject lesson in how people are generally stupid. Granny being a pride filled genius, is written in such a way that no one can beat her, so if you add her into a cage match environment she will beat all, because she is Weatherwax, it can’t be explained further then that.

  • Zangetsu

    Can people just stop insulting people because they are ‘fanboys’ it is in itself very childish. I will admit to voting for kylar in this one as he is one of my favorite characters and I will vote for him in every battle that I think he could win. However do I think he will win the competition; no. For the simple reason that you have rake and moraine in this tournament and they would beat him easily as most people complaining about kylar winning is that he is too inexperienced to beat them. I do however believe he could beat granny even though she could scare off death and this is for one simple reason; she is from disc world where madness and comedy rule. Don’t get me wrong I love pratchetts work so just stop complaining that people of voting for a character you don’t like.

  • Adam

    This write up is dreadful but all the same i have difficulty voting as i love both characters, kylar is one of my favourite fantasy characters whereas granny is my favourite non-serious fiction character still i think in the end i’ll stick with kylar, sorry granny

  • Bob

    Dpomerico, thanks for doing the write-up!

    I think Granny’s a difficult character to write. From my limited reading, Discworld novels are, at the surface, farces. They’re set up to allow Pratchett to make a lot of puns and double-entendres. Below the surface, there are genuinely good plots which show Pratchett’s mastery as a novelist, but the books don’t have a huge amount of action. Putting a Pratchett character up against an action character is going to be a collision in styles. And trying to get Pratchett’s subtlety across in a one-page story – definitely not easy.

    Having said that, I voted for Kylar Stern. I don’t think that he’s the more powerful character and I’ve not read The Night Angel Trilogy books. But I think a physical struggle, rather than a metaphysical struggle will make for a more interesting final.

    And, to put my money where my mouth is, my next post is an alternate version of the battle.

  • Bob

    Kylar Stern strode into the arena and spied the old witch sitting in a rocking chair on the far side. He took a step towards her and stopped. He hadn’t intended to stop and hadn’t decided to. But something had gotten into his head and he stopped.

    “Granny Weatherwax, you are not a nice person” he shouted.

    ‘Been told that before’ came from the figure on the rocking chair.

    “And you have four kills listed against you. That makes you my opponent.”

    “First ‘un was already dead” replied Granny. “Not that y’ should be holdin’ that against him.”

    With that, Kyler Stern sprang forward and let fly a knife towards Granny’s head. The throw was accurate and headed towards her right eye – until it wasn’t and flew past her to clang into the arena wall. “Need something faster” Kyler thought as he ran forward and launched two throwing spikes towards Granny chest. This time the weapons didn’t miss, they disappeared – only to reappear seconds later sticking out of Granny knitting bag.

    “Missiles are no good, must close” thought Kyler, drawing his sword and racing across the arena.

    “Boy, ya’ seem to be lookin’ for a fight. Well sometimes what folks want is what’s right for ‘em.”

    As Granny finished her statement, a shadowy figure formed between her and Kyler. He stopped his rush and dropped into a fighting stance as the figure became defined – it was his double. The shadow also had a sword and moved forward to engage Kyler. Kyler knew this was a test, but knew equally that the figure would kill him if it could. Many of his abilities seemed already countered. This would be a physical fight.

    The shadow launched a wary lunge which he countered and riposted. His riposte was beaten back hard and the shadow took a step back to prevent an opening in its defense. With that, Kyler went on the attack. He thrust and was parried. He feinted but got no openings. He beat at his opponent’s sword, but the shadow always maintained its guard. He stamped forward and threw a spike. The shadow knocked it aside with his sword and returned to parry Kyler’s following lunge.

    Kyler tried defense and again there was no difference between him and the shadow. He met all of the phantasm’s attacks, but none of his counter-attacks went through. Kyler tried moving inside his double’s thrusts to gain an opening for a dagger, but the shadow always kept control of its position. He tried high parries and low parries, but the shadow always sustained its guard.

    Kyler knew that he and his opponent were perfectly matched and this clash would not be decided on skill alone. He took a step back and then lunged, knowing that the shadow would parry the lunge. But then he doubled the lunge, thrusting again, while at the same time flinging a spike at his double’s back shoulder. It was a rash move, opening up his body and relying on the spike to prevent a counter-attack. The shadow held it’s position, accepted the shoulder wound and thrust its sword through Kyler’s near side.

    Without thinking, Kyler dropped his sword and drove his body forward down the blade. Now finally inside the shadow’s guard and ahead of its counters, he grabbed his double’s throat and crushed its windpipe. The shadow dropped to its knees and Kyler, bent over the shadow’s sword in pain, stepped to the side. He knew he’d bleed to death from his wound, but his double would die from asphyxiation first.

    Moments later, the shadow and the sword through Kyler’s side both disappeared. The pain and the damage remained, but his bleeding was somehow stanched. Kyler retrieved his sword and pointed it at Granny Weatherwax. “I’ve beaten your phantasm, witch. Now you shall meet Death!”

    “Y’er right” stated Granny. “I’ve got him comin’ over for tea.” She pulled an old pocket-watch from her cloak and glanced at it. “Best be going t’ put the kettle on the stove.” With that Granny Weatherwax stood and went to fetch her broomstick. Kyler Stern, stunned, perhaps in multiple ways, remained motionless as she left the arena.

  • Dave

    Granny can outsmart anybody, including basic forces of nature (e.g., death). She rarely has to use her own power, but when she does, she generally knows exactly the right trick to use and when to use it. People who think they have the upper hand against her and try to finish her off inevitably find that they’ve just slit their own throats.

    In short: Granny Weatherwax wins against brute force. And probably against anything else, for that matter.

  • Plan R

    Not bad Bob, not Pratchett, but then again no one is.

    The only reason I voted for Granny in this, is that from what I can gather Kylar seems like someone Granny could really trip up with Headology.

  • Mav30256

    I voted for Kylar mainly because i know the night angel series better. But it sounds like everyone voting for granny is stating bad chuck norris jokes, but with granny instead of chuck. I agree with a couple of the comments further up. Sounds like granny just convinced the people watching that she killed kylar

  • Plan R


    Exactly, that’s what headology is. A witch does not turn people into toads, she convinces you you are a toad, and perception being reality means you are a toad. That’s why she can beat anyone. Granny’s character is such that she is so full of pride that she will not lose to anyone. I’ll grant that she would never get involved with a cage match, its not her style, but if she was thrusted into it, she would not allow herself to lose. In Bob’s write up earlier it wouldn’t have been that Kylar fought his double, he would have perceived that he was fighting his double, in actuality he would be fighting himself fight club style and would have in fact killed himself. If you don’t like it don’t vote for her, the problem with Pratchett is his stories and characters unlike the other characters in these brackets could not be molded into a D&D game easily, so for cage match purposes it is hard to peg where any of his characters would fit and what they could and couldn’t do, but do read some of Pratchett’s books they are gold and he is by far the finest fantasy writer currently producing stories.

  • Plan R

    and a couple more things to help understand Granny, when she was young it seemed she was destined to be a wicked witch, her sister became a fairy godmother and gave everybody what they wanted. This caused more problems then it ever solved, so Granny decided that she would not be a wicked witch she would a Good witch (not a Nice witch) but instead of giving people what they wanted she would give them what they needed whether they wanted it or not. she is noted as not having much natural ability with magic, it does not come to her naturally as it would to someone like Nanny Ogg. But that Esmme makes her magic work harder and hotter then anyone else, that’s why she is the most powerful witch on the Disc. Granny once gave a imaginary invisible hat to a young witch to boost her confidence, belief is so powerful on the disc that the imaginary hat keeps the rain off her head.

  • Lee Monroe

    I’m sorry, but you can’t just say: “Granny wins because she can’t lose” It seem like Kylar would tear her apart with extreme ease.

    Anyway, I think I’ve stated this before, but Kylar gets my vote, if not because this write up just fails.

  • dawoad

    Frankly I don’t know who would win. Terry pratchet’s granny is powerful as hell but then, so’s the black and it’s terrifyingly older than granny. It’s also got an entirely different view of the world than she does *shrugs*. That said, I voted for kylar because I really don’t like the granny write ups. They’re boring, they don’t explain what she did (and pratchet always does before you give me the “she wouldn’t explain it” shtick) and frankly I don’t want to see a final matchup with granny in it as I think it would be a disservice to this whole event.

  • gawd


    Disservice to the event? The whole thing is a joke.

  • dawoad


    Maybe but there have been some damned good writeups including the kylar/cale one. the granny ones have all been crap. I’ll take a good, interesting, final match writeup over
    “granny sat in a rocking chair, granny won, how? you decide!” any day.

  • David

    @ bob
    Lmao if this is how grannys fights go i think i would actually enjoy the books. the kylar character is all wrong but it doesnt matter i prefer your write up to the original by far…

  • Kyler fanboy OMG RAGE

    @ bob that is a great write up better than the original, thank you.

    In response to the original, By the end of book three Kyler has Become the night angel, he is by no means perfect, but to think that he would be stupid enough to just stand there and take a sledgehammer hit to the head is completely im plausible.

    This is round five, Kyler knows what this is all about by now, as if he wouldn’t just go invisible walk up and kill the old lady, from what i’ve read she isn’t that good with magic, so i doubt she would be able to sense Kyler being invisible, the only thing she’s got going for her, is her ability to make people believe anything she wants them too, If she doesn’t know hes there, there is no reason for her to talk is there?

  • Vikenx

    Heh, well done Bob, that was far and by better than the official write-up. I was actually amused by it. Oh, though one minor criticism… you spell Kylar with an “a,” not an “e.” Yeah, I’m a big fan of Mr. Weeks, and it’s not because I’m not well-read. His writing style, characters, and storytelling have struck a cord with me that I really haven’t found with other writers (not that they weren’t good or even amazing). I won’t apologize for being a Night Angel fan because I’m supposed to like an author that has collectively been designated as “better,” or even “the best.”

    And if anyone hear besides me is more than just a fantasy/sci-fi literature fanboy, but also an anime/manga fanboy… is it just me or does Headology remind you of the Izanagi jutsu from Naruto? (Please don’t flame me for this, fans of Pratchett, I’m just trying to make a comparison that helps her ability makes sense to an uninitiated like myself.)

    One last thing… while it seems unbelievably clever, I have no real desire to read the Discworld novels. However, I really do want to read something by Mr. Pratchett. Can anyone suggest some of his other works to me that wouldn’t be quite so… meta? (Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I’m just looking for something else right now and I’ve heard many times from reliable sources how good Mr. Pratchett is.) Anything would be appreciated, thanks!

  • I’ve read both “Equal Rites” and the Night Angel Trilogy, and I don’t really see how Granny would win here, especially not that easily. Headology can’t really be compared to the powers of a ka’kari, and I don’t think you could talk directly to one without being bonded to it, awesome witch powers or no.

    I love Terry’s books but I think Kylar would win here, in the end. Maybe if he were facing Death… I don’t know. “HE WOULD PROBABLY JUST CAPSLOCK-SPEAK HIM TO DEATH, ANYWAY.” xD

  • Tim

    Despite being a Kylar fanboy, I wasn’t going to vote in this one, because I don’t know anything about Granny except from the other writeups on this site (so basically, all I know about her is she really annoys me, and her fans and the writeups both seem to just say “Granny wins. Don’t need to explain how, she just does.”). But this writeup was so… insulting, that I voted for Kylar just out of spite. This has been only the second Kylar writeup where I haven’t read the books of his opponent, the other seeming to be just a stock-standard spellcaster, which Kylar will slaughter any day of the week, so it’s the first time really that I’ve voted without an awareness of Kylar’s opponent.

    Also, can’t remember who pointed out the thing about the last sentence and the fans and etc., but wow. Totally missed that until you pointed it out. Guess her headology didn’t work on me at least, then. Although I probably can’t think of a much more susceptible person to it that Kylar. But thankfully, once they’ve gone meta like that, it’s me she has to influence here, not him.

  • Charles

    @Plan R

    Thank you for actually explaining what other people have simply said is inexplicable. I have no prior knowledge of Granny, so what you wrote was very helpful. Still, I feel Kylar would win this fight, though not by much. While the physical battle would be no contest in Kylar’s favor, he is a character that was fairly easily manipulated before he realized that the ka’kari could speak. The real battle would be a head-match between the ka’kari and Granny to see what Kylar would do. That is a battle I doubt the ka’kari would lose.
    For those of you who know nothing about the Night Angel Trilogy and therefore the ka’kari, I will attempt to explain what the ka’kari is. The black (ka’kari) is a sentient artifact of unknown material also known as the devourer. This name comes from its ability to absorb magic (and Kylar’s clothes in certain embarrassing moments). For all the readers know, the ka’kari may be one of the first sentient beings in the Night Angel Trilogy’s universe. Because of that it is extremely wise and perceptive. One of the main abilities featured in the books is that the black grants its wielder immortality, but not invincibility. This seems comparable to Granny’s resistance to death. A downside to the ka’kari is that, while it is extremely wise and intelligent, it is still just an artifact: the black still obeys Kylar. Kylar can chose to put the ka’kari someplace where it wouldn’t be able to help him, which would be Granny’s ticket to victory.

  • Vohbo

    Not entirely sure how you can see Granny losing a head match. That just makes no sense at all. The physical battle yeah, she could lose that, but Granny is the mental version of Chuck Norris.
    The main problem with the cage matches is that abilities other than physical are rarely well-written and therefore not conveyed properly. The same thing was the case for Anasûrimbor Kellhus, and if Sorilea of the Chareen Aiel from WoT would ever show up in one, she would face similar problems.

    If Granny’s fans say they cannot imagine her losing, then that is actually what they mean. I can ‘t imagine her losing this fight either, regardless of the opponent, because as has been said before, she is not so much a character as a philosophy, or a tool to teach a lesson. In the end, she would win the argument, get her way, and leave the other character having learned something.

    I just wish someone could write her in a more interesting way, because the battle of wits and willpower aspect isn’t prominent enough.

  • Andrakis

    Simple Kylar wears kakari and walks through granny and it devours her and her weapons any magic it absorbs. No contest. Seriously the thing is OP as %$# unless she does have anything like curoch.

  • Nicholas

    Ok, I’m just stating things from my point of view here, I’m not pushing anyone to agree.
    This is still a “choice awards” no matter how/what you call it. The fans pick the winner.
    The only reason it’s made to look like a match (fight) is to allow the writeups to tell readers about the characters’ abilities, n entertain us at the same time. It’s also to get more participants (voters), because if they’d chosen to name this “Favorite Sci-fi/ Fantasy Character” it would’ve been less intriguing.
    That’s why they put Kylar in and not Durzo. It’s not just because Durzo [*SPOILER!*] *doesn’t have the ka’kari anymore.* Kylar is just more fascinating, n he has a dark past that would attract readers. Plus, this way they can introduce the black ka’kari.
    It’s not about finding the strongest character.
    It’s impossible to know, aside from the endless possibilities provided by the various universes, that purpose would make the match pointless. (For example: If this is the final match n Kylar wins, Granny’s fans would still stick to their own beliefs n simply blame the loss to popularity or favoritism.)
    So, sadly, that’s it. This isn’t an epic multi-universe match. This is for entertainment and promotional use only.
    Thus I have to say, even if Kylar faces Rake, I would feel no guilt in voting for him even though Rake would have won. I’ve never heard of him, but he sounds powerful. Maybe too powerful. (I hope this Anomander Rake isn’t the main protagonist of the book(s) he comes from because I’m sure that would make it SO boring!)
    Anyway, my vote goes to Kylar, because he’s a magnificent character from an astonishing series that I love.
    What else can I say? We live in the era of democracy.

  • Shade

    I’ve read both series and, even though I LOVE Pratchett’s satire, I just don’t think it fits here.
    If we took it on that degree, Zaphod should have won the entire thing! Even Granny’s headology might have difficulties with improbability.
    I have MUCH love for Pratchett. Discworld is awesome and Good Omens was great!.
    All the same, Granny is out of her league. Righteousness is entirely based on perspective…
    (My possible, incredibly humble, write-up)

    Within Grannie’s world, she is righteous. Within Kylar’s world, he’s righteous. So they must fuse the two…

    Granny came up against something she’d never seen… something that is right, but not her right, but is her right all the same because it’s there… Which means it’s wrong, but of course, if couldn’t be wrong because she’d come up against it. If she’d come up against it, then it must exist, but it must wait for her to decide it must exist for her to come up against it, but if it exists, then it’s right, except that it’s wrong.
    Part of the problem is that this isn’t exactly Discworld… Well not any version Granny knew, but she’d never concerned herself with exactlys anyways.

    For that matter, Kylar didn’t know WHERE he was… the arena that surrounded him reminded him of when he found out he was broken. He’d been fixed since, in a manner of speaking, but that didn’t stop the shiver of remembrance cascading over him.
    Unlike before, where the stands were full of people, the only other person was an elderly woman dressed in a tattered black dress and what looked like a witch’s pointed hat, also in black.
    “You’ve GOT to be kidding,” he muttered to himself. There was no way this grandmother could be his opponent.

    Granny eyed the young man with an appraising eye. She sniffed and rejected him immediately. He was too young to know even HALF of what the world had to offer him yet. He didn’t even look like he knew how to hold himself, let alone how to fight and somehow this was so because she thought it, after all, how would DARE hurt the elderly when they should be helping them with their groceries?

    Kylar approached the woman and as he did, all of Durzo’s lessons fled from his head. Surely this grandma couldn’t be any threat that he’d need that knowledge anyway, but he still remembered that there was something important about her. Was she a noble of some sort? Perhaps she was a member of the Sa`kage?

    Granny waited till he came within arms reach. He stopped exactly where she expected him to, which made her task that much easier. Considering that she more important things to take care of, making things easier was worth her time. She smiled at the young man, knowing he was as confused about the situation as he should be before pulling a simple stake knife* out of her pouch.

    *stake knives were invented to deal with the vampire threat that was bound to happen eventually… someday, but not yet. It was a round spear, sharpened on all sides on the off chance that one would miss the heart by a bit, yet close enough to cause discomfort.

    Kylar learned his lesson before. When the Ka`kari said duck, there was a good reason for it, even if he saw nothing out of the ordinary. It wasn’t till after he finished his roll to the side, staying in one place was another of Durzo’s rules that he’d drilled into him, which surprised him to remember off hand, that he saw the odd looking stake in the grandmother’s hand. It was even more of a surprise to find one of the many daggers in his hand and buried in her side, between the ribs, just barely puncturing the heart after entering the lung.
    Durzo’s lessons were ingrained in him to the point that they were second nature, but watching the grandmother’s life fade out of her eyes, he couldn’t help but feel that somehow he’d lost in the end yet.

  • Alex

    I sorry but the whole point of granny Weatherwax is that she never loses. I have read both series and I don’t see any possibility where Kylar would win.

  • BitterCold

    Gotta give Kylar credit for taking down Erevis Cale (’bout damn time,) but Granny would have him running circles around himself.
    Great powers and assassin skills aside, Kylar’s still just a kid in a lot of ways. And Granny handles kids all the time.

  • Jonathon

    I’m rather surprised. I like Kylar, but I thought Granny Weatherwax would win (let’s be honest, it’s Terry Prachett here…) so I voted Kylar to go with the ‘Underdog’… only to discover he’s winning. Not many Prachett fans about or other people like me rooting for the plucky young assassin?

  • Rochey86

    This write up is just horrible…. You would think at this stage a little more effort would be put into them since we’ve been reading and following the matches for about a month now….
    I’ve been following and voting for Granny through her matches, although her write ups are pretty atrocious! (I don’t buy her winning this.)
    Anyway, Kylar for the win….

  • Alex C

    This is the first Granny write up I see and I’m already annoyed 😛 After reading all of the comments I think I’m finally starting to understand this Granny’s powers, but how did she even he was there? How did she even know everything about the Black ka’kary when hardly anybody in the NAT world even knows of its existence and the few people who do know about it hardly knows anything about it, not even Durzo who spend I think seven centuries with the thing (its been a while I read the books)

    I just don’t understand how she knew it even existed when she comes from another world. And plus from what I heard she can’t read minds, only manipulate them. But I don’t actually want to read her adventures in discworld thanks to there fan boys 😛 why would I want to read a book about a Granny that I know nobody as a hell in chance of winning against, it just seems predictable and boring.

    The reason I love Kylar so much is because he is such a fail 😛 lol . He made so many mistakes in the trilogy, that even if we know he’s immortal, he as trouble solving most problems. Sorry Granny, from what I got here your just another of those people who suffer from the superman syndrome, meaning your annoying. I’m voting for Kylar because for one, this write up just sucked 😛 (Bob did a good job tho, that one entertained me) and two, Kylar is better because even if he isn’t perfect, even if he usually ends up fighting someone way to strong for him, he still finds a way to win anyway.

    P.S. Normally I don’t vote when I don’t know both sides of the coin with detail, but this write up just annoyed me to much.

  • yeadelray

    kylar stern the night angel v.s. richard rahl, ruler of d’hara

  • Remvexas

    Yeah, I don’t accept that “the whole point of Granny is that she can’t lose.” That’s not a suitable response to the Night Angel fans who have called this victory ludicrous, it’s a dodge. Even if she represents a philosophy in a satirical work (as amazing as it is), here she is still a character.

    And I think Kylar is getting a raw deal in the comments from both the Discworld and many of the Night Angel fans. He wasn’t a fail character, or even stupid. The whole point of the Shadow’s Edge novel was to show how Kylar and the reader is coming to grips with Kylar’s ascension to the status of immortal and his vastly growing powers. I think if this was Shadow’s Edge Kylar, I could agree the criticism would have some degree of merit. But if this is post-Beyond the Shadows Kylar, it’s painful how badly he’s being described.

    But finally I have to agree with Nicholas when he said “Anyway, my vote goes to Kylar, because he’s a magnificent character from an astonishing series that I love.”

  • The broken

    Kylar Stern slid knives into his palms as he approached the unconscious elderly woman. Not the most chivalrous thing to do, but he was an assassin, not a knight. It was amazing how many forgot that detail in this bizarre tournament.

    He took a step forward…the ground gave way under his feet.

    A pit trap? Kylar reached for the sides, railing at himself. urzo would have killed him for such a basic oversight. Everything he’d heard about his opponent revolved around her ability to speak, so he’d sought to end the engagement without giving her the chance. Impatient, careless, and stupid.

    The sides of the pit were too sheer to climb by any normal means. Drawing climbing spikes from a pouch, he drove the first into the side, stumbling across something white in the dust at his feet. A piece of card.


    Kylar looked up at a growing buzz, watching a black and yellow cloud appear over the edge of the pit.

    As quick as he was, there was little he could do against two thousand simultaneous wasp stings.


    I’ve only read book 1 of Brent Weeks, maybe he has a way out of this.

    But ‘headology’ is Granny’s favourite tool. It s not her only tool.

  • Stifler

    Kylar would never allow Granny’s headology to give up his life because everytime Kylar dies, a loved one is sacrificed to trigger his immortality. Kylar’s will to survive every fight – after he understands the power of the ka’kari (in Beyond the Shadows) would prevent any ‘easy’ manipulation of his mind. It is the one thing that keeps Kylar going in every book of the Night Angel trilogy – the desire to protect his loved ones.

    Poor write up. Kylar ftw.

  • @ yeadelray

    Yes, that would be an epic battle. Better yet, make it Durzo vs. Richard Rahl. That, would be fantastic.

  • Loken

    Kyler gets my vote based on that write-up alone.

    Just awful.

  • Wazza

    Brent Weeks is a tool but Kylar Stern would win this round. Granny isn’t as grand as people make out. In fact, she’s down right annoying.

  • theAKpal

    So, just for the heck of it, and seeing as how it’s somewhat common in this thread – I’d been inspired by some of the other commenters, also – I figured I’d add my two-cents of a write-up. Note, it’s almost 2k words and contains spoilers from NAT.

    Before I post it, I want to say I’ve read the NAT, recently and as a result of these cage matches; and I highly recommend them. I have not read any of Granny’s books.

    With that said, I do apologize for the way in which I write Granny speaking, I just don’t know her diction (Kyler’s probably isn’t all that accurate either); but, for me, this is more about having fun than being 100% faithful to the styles. Besides, I’m lazy and don’t want to do any research. So, here goes:

    Kyler found himself on a vast battlefield surrounded by tens of thousands of fans screaming for bloody murder.

    “We want to see a real fight. We’re tired of Granny’s winning not being spelled out for us. We watch too much television. We don’t know how to use our imaginations,” they whined.

    “I’ll show you a fight, just as soon as my opponent arrives,” Kyler pandered to the crowd.

    It was at this time that a little old lady moseyed out onto the field, walker and all.

    “Don’t y’ mind me, youngin, I’ll be along shortly. Get y’ self prepared. Go ahead and do your whole invisible bit or whatever,” Granny said.

    “An old lady is it,” Kyler thought. It didn’t matter. He’d taken contracts on plenty an old woman. Just another deader; and she was even giving him time to prepare. Her funeral.

    He was tempted not to bother with the ka’kari on this woman, she barely looked capable of holding herself up, much less put up any kind of fight. But, this was the fourth round of the cage matches. She wouldn’t have made it this far if there wasn’t more to her than the way she looked. If the information Momma K had acquired was accurate, she was some form of witch where she was from. He’d dealt with witches before.

    Kyler activated the black ka’kari’s power and disappeared from view. His training had ground into him the importance of knowing his surroundings. He was quite aware of every nook and cranny, divot, shadow, and curve of the arena. There weren’t any surprises to worry about. It was him, the old lady, and her walker – complete with basket on the front. He couldn’t quite tell from his position, but it didn’t look like the basket contained anything of note, just some balls of yarn and knitting needles.

    Although he could think of fifteen ways to kill with those contents, she didn’t have that look to her. He couldn’t imagine her using them for anything but knitting blankets and sweaters, or whatever it is old lady’s knit. Nonetheless, he readied himself for whatever was set to come his way. He’d learned his lessons. He was no longer the naïve youth of the past.

    He was prepared for anything. Anything, that is, except for what came next.

    “Ka’kari! Ka’kari, I know that’s you!” Came a voice out of Granny’s basket.

    “What the hell is that,” Kyler thought, not wanting to give away his position. “I thought we weren’t allowed to use outside assistance in these battles. I would’ve brought Durzo along, otherwise. Not that I need the help, but two is better than one, and he’s pulled my ass out of the proverbial fire multiple times.”

    “Ka’kari, you get over here right now and leave Granny alone,” the voice said.

    “Oh, shit!” the black ka’kari said, panic and worry apparent in its tone.

    “What? What’s wrong?” Kyler asked, getting worried himself, having only knowing the ka’kari to stress over really dangerous matters.

    “Ka’kari, I know you’re there, you can’t hide from your mu’mari,” the voice said.

    “Crap, it’s my mom! Sorry, Kyler, you’re on your own for this one,” the black ka’kari said and disunited from him, slowly leaking down his leg to puddle on the ground at his feet before making its way towards Granny.

    A larger ooze dripped down the side of Granny’s walker, and as Kyler’s ka’kari reached it stretched out a strand and grabbed it, then dragged it out of the arena.

    Kyler was aghast, he was dumbfounded, but most importantly, he was no longer invisible.

    Granny spoke up, “Now that we got that out of the way, we can get on with our…match.”

    Kyler couldn’t help it, he asked, “What just happened?”

    “Ah, y’see, it seems your little friend there, the black ka’kari, ran away from home a thousand years ago or so. For their people, he’s little more than a babe. I happened to be having tea with her the other day, commenting about the ridiculousness of these cage matches. To think the powers that be had to drag me into this mess,” Granny said, shaking her head. “I told her you were my next opponent and described your specialized skill set to her. She recognized her boy immediately and was quite pissed when she found out he’d been hiding on Midcyru all this time. If you’ve ever seen a mother determined to get their child back, well you’d know what I had to deal with. I had no choice but to agree to their happy reunion. Oh, I’m sorry, you probably don’t know what it’s like to have a mother worry about you, being an orphan and all.”

    Kyler asked, “You mean the black ka’kari has a family? There are more of them?”

    “Why, of course he does. He’s a sentient being after all. Did you think he just popped out of thin air or something. I swear, children these days,” Granny said.

    Kyler didn’t know what to say, but it didn’t matter, this was a cage match. So what if he didn’t have the ka’kari to protect him. He was still trained by the greatest wetboy ever, and he was no slouch himself. He flourished Retribution and prepared to battle.

    “Is that your plan, then, Kyler, stick me with that toy of yours? Because, I can tell you right now, it won’t work,” Granny asked.

    “Not exactly,” Kyler said. “I’ve been practicing my arts since saving Cenaria from the God-king and Khali. What better way to test my skills than against the foremost witch of discworld. I admit, I did a little research on you. ”

    Kyler wasn’t sure why he was talking to her. What kind of wetboy tells his target what he’s going to do before doing it. Well, except for maybe Vir, but there was a lot of sexual tension between us at the time. You get a young man alone with a young woman and …

    Kyler pulled his mind back from visions of Vir’s bountiful curves and luscious breasts. “Focus Kyler, this is a battle to the death. We don’t have the luxury to be distracted,” he thought.

    When he came back to, Granny was sitting in a rocker, blanket across her lap, needles in hand. The walker was gone. “What!” Kyler thought. “Where’d that come from? I sure as hell know that wasn’t there a moment ago.”

    “Are you done daydreaming about your girlfriend? We are in the middle of a cage match here.” Granny said.

    “She’s not my girlfriend!” Kyler growled, almost petulant. “My love died with Elene.”

    “Yes, a pity that. Killing your own wife, for shame,” Granny reprimanded.

    “She sacrificed herself. She did it to save our world. Don’t disrespect my doll girl!” Kyler shouted.

    “tsk, tsk, Kyler. Is that guilt I hear in your voice? How long have you and Vir been intimate? What would your precious Elene think about that?” Granny asked.

    “Vir and I are not a couple. And, besides, Elene made Vir promise to look after me, knowingly,” Kyler said.

    “She did, did she? Are you saying your one and only love wanted you to hook up with another girl? Are you so sure she loved you as much as you think? Maybe she just couldn’t think of a better way to escape from your immortal harassment.”

    “Shut up. You know nothing about us. It was true love between us. It always had been,” Kyler screamed.

    “But, if you loved her as much as you say you did, why didn’t you figure out a way to save her? Surely you could have made a deal with Ezra. Maybe trade two of your friends’ lives for Elene: Vir and someone else. Maybe you didn’t because you also wanted out of the relationship. Maybe once you’d had her you were done with her. I know how the male mind works. Vir was new, and she clearly wanted you. And, you knew she was far more experienced and open to the more disreputable things you’d like to do.”

    “No, it’s not like that! I’m not like that! I’m different! Elene was my first. I loved her with all my heart!” Kyler shouted, covering his ears with his hands. “I’m not listening to this anymore.”

    She was good, he had to give her that. Kyler didn’t want to think about it. He knew there was truth in the old lady’s words. But, he was different, right? He wasn’t like all the other men, he tried to tell himself. He was angry.

    No, he was furious, righteously so. And, whether at himself or at Granny, it didn’t matter. He could use that emotion and channel it into defeating her, because whether what she said was true or not, he wasn’t going to lose the fight if he could avoid it.

    Kyler focused his not insignificant Talent through Retribution, the Staff of Law, the maker and unmaker, the archiver, and unleashed a tidal wave of fire and lightning towards Granny. It rolled towards her in a wall of sound and fury, scorching the earth and leaving a glassy sheen in its path. The shear magnitude of its heat caused those in the stand’s few front rows to spontaneously combust in a shower of ash, even at distance. It was a spectacle of light and imagery the likes few of which have ever seen, the blues and reds flickering amongst themselves as electricity scattered about. It was an awe-inspiring sight, and it washed right over Granny as if merely a strong wind, the wards surrounding her in a bubble of protection.

    Granny didn’t even look up from her pearl knit, one-two. Kyler couldn’t help but wonder what she was knitting.

    “Flashy,” she said. “But that’s not how things work on my world. I didn’t feel like playing with it. Go on, what else have you got? Get it all out. I want you to feel as though you did everything you could to win. I don’t want there to be any regrets left for you to quibble about when I inevitably defeat you.”

    Kyler blinked his eyes. He’d just seen Granny shrug off the most intense magic he’d ever seen (well, remembered seeing, that is), and it was still going, burning through the stands at the end of the field and snuffing out the spectators’ miserable lives. He felt no remorse for them. As much as he liked to avoid it, collateral damage occurs.

    So what if his offensive magics had no effect. Many people can defend against them. Not everyone has the Staff of power though, “Try this one on for size,” Kyler said as he used Retribution to dismantle the protective wards surrounding Granny. But, his control wasn’t perfect, and he ended up stripping away more than just the wards. He ended up stripping away reality in such a way as to reveal the will behind her words. What he saw was of such frightening magnitude he dropped to his knees in awe…and despair, Retribution clanging against the newly formed glass ground, a marblesque menagerie of greens and browns.

    Seeing the truth of what he was facing, he knew he’d lost and there was nothing he could do about it. He never dreamed such a power existed. His last thought was, “If only I read more fiction growing up, I may have stood a chance.”

    When the dust settled, after having been kicked up by the explosion of reality, the crowd was silent as Granny made her way back to the locker room, wandering behind her walker, the basket slightly less empty than when she started.

    And, Kyler, Kyler lay lifeless on the ground with a knitting needle through his left eye…and a Santa hat upon his head.

  • Slash

    having just read all of the discussions I feel like I understand both characters. Someone mentioned richard Rahl earlier and that sounds accurate to me. Everything about Granny points to her being the counterpart to Zed from the sword of truth series. In that she simply uses the wizards first rule. As such the sword of truth seems like an accurate modicum to base this battle on with a proper mix of both Kyler and Granny’s abilities available.
    With that being noted it makes me wonder why granny would make it this far using the wizards first rule but Richard Rahl who has the same ability and a whole lot more be out in the second round. Just saying its interesting how one character with the same abilities goes so much farther.

  • Dicklover

    Richard Rahl was out’d because of a lot of Dick hate not because his lack of power. He should have easily taken this whole tournament, but it’s a popularity contest, not a cage match. And that’s the Truth.

  • Huh

    I’ve only read the Night Angel series and know nothing of the other combatants but I guarantee he can whip everyone.

  • Lee Monroe

    Well, looks like Rake is going to lose to the wrath of the WoT fans.

    I’m hoping that when Kylar goes up against them, he can pull through.

  • Blade’s_Master

    Hmmm… I don’t know even how in a world that base his existence in magic the words “Did you think he just popped out of thin air or something” can be applicable most of the incredible powerful beings & things with a magic relation popped out of thin air, they are forged created but not born of families it makes no sense even a sentient/simbian or whatever and no use fantasy popularity as a valid explanation is just mess up these are not characters of a silly animation directed to small children.
    Moreover how is that “the Staff of Law, the maker and unmaker” can be that easily avoided even overlooking that how a bunch of stupidity talk over rules (that seem even the knowledge of kylar about it was erase) that governs the so called inmortality of Kylar can open a doubt that gives a victory to granny, of course maybe is just me a Fan of fantasy & the Brent Weeks opinion but I’m not accept that result.

  • Remvexas

    @The broken
    Yes, Kylar would have a way out of that. I could explain it but since you’ve read the first book I’m going to just suggest you continue on with the other two.

    Wow, rude much? Where do you get off calling someone you’ve never met a tool? I also bet that you don’t even know anything about him. Granted, neither do I – but it seems to be wrong to just label someone like that without a reason.

    You misspelled Kylar’s name. (Sorry, but it’s just a pet peeve of mine.) Also, I think you’ve gotten your magical artifacts mixed up… *SPOILERS* Retribution is really Iures, the Staff of Law, whose power is to give a its wielder a thousand times more magical control. As such, doesn’t make much sense for Kylar to make a mistake because of a lack of control. And he would never give up knowing what his death would cost. Never, ever again, no matter what he faced. But my issue is only with the logic. Your write-up is still better than the original.

  • theAKpal


    Sorry, I thought I saw an earlier post where someone said it was spelled wrong with the ‘e’. I didn’t remember for sure and was too lazy to look it up (I must’ve remembered it dyslexically). I’m aware of the artifact (i.e., I know which one does what). I figured someone would give me some heck for it. My logic was that since he’s never really had much control over the magic, a 1000x increase doesn’t make him all that much better at it. It was more for the fact that the artifact allowed him access to the Talent in the first place that I was going with. The magnitude of the power employed was his own, as his incredible potential is mentioned in the novels. With regard to what his death would cost, with the black ka’kari ‘gone home to mommy’, he wouldn’t be resurrected, ergo no death of a friend.

    Thanks for the commenting, anyways. I appreciate all constructive feedback, even if it is to tell me it isn’t good (although you didn’t say that). At least I could understand what you said, unlike blade’s master’s rambling diatribe.

  • Metacognition

    You know who I’d like to see next year? Cal, from the Nightlife series. He’s a halfbreed descendant from one of the first races ever to exist (in his modern setting) and is a great anti-hero. Plus, his ability to make gates would give him a fair chance within these fights!

  • Samuel

    Guh, so Stern won again? I’m actually kind of baffled by the fan response to this character. I read the Night Angel books, but I never found Kylar all that impressive. I mean, he’s an assassin who doesn’t like to murder people, angsts about his girlfriend/chronic virginity all the time, and gets killed by better assassins all the time. None of his subtle plans tend to work out, so the master killer in the shadows is generally reduced to rushing straight at his target with a sword. I mean, sure, he’s powerful, but that’s the ka’kari. Without it he’d be about the least successful assassin in all fantasy literature, dead numerous times over at the hands of men and women with no such enhancement at all.

    Am I the only one who just doesn’t get all the Night Angel hype?

  • Farmer Monkey

    I’d like to see a gate-mage in the tourney, too! Just finished listening to OSC’s “The Lost Gate (Mithermages #1)” on Audible. Danny (or Wad) would make an interesting contestant.

    I particularly liked how gate mages in that novel were almost always practical jokers. Because that’s exactly what I would want to do as a gate mage. Imagine the fun you could have with the gun from Portal playing a GTA or Saints Row game!

  • Vikenx

    Wow, Wazza, rude much?

    And I have to question theAKpal’s comprehension of the Night Angel novels… first and foremost because of the glaring misspelling of Kylar’s name. Seriously, it’s with an “a” and not an “e,” why are so many people making that mistake with it referenced in the info at the top of the page? Not to mention even if Kylar knew he would lose, he would never, EVER give up a fight knowing what it costs for him to invoke his immortality. Seriously, after facing down a goddess and an army of the damned, I don’t think Granny is so far beyond that that it would make Kylar surrender in his own mind. Oh, and finally is the mistakes regarding the ability of Iures, the Staff of Law, which would by its very nature never be an instrument for its wielder to make a mistake due to lack of control.

    And one thing I’ve never really seen addressed… if Headology is magic that turns perception into reality, than shouldn’t the Ka’kari simply be able to absorb or negate it? The Black can and has acted of its own will to protect Kylar in the past.

    Oh, and I know the fight has been decided already, but no one ever points out that Kylar has wielded Curoch before… and if he were to prepare for a multidimensional death match involving a potential battle against Rake to protect his very reality, I can imagine he’d get his hands on it again one way or another. Curoch to the heart would be beyond what even Granny should be able to handle. After all, two of the defining properties of the Sword of Power, the Sunderer, is that it sunders magic itself… and no wound inflicted by Curoch can be healed by magic. Though for cross-reality matches where laws of reality clash, this becomes a debatable issue. Of course, if Granny’s abilities make her beyond Curoch because of the nature of her world’s magic, there’s no reason the converse can’t be argued that the Night Angel can’t be beyond the influence of Granny’s magic. Just saying, it’s something to think about.

    All I’ve ever wanted to do was give people who seem dead set one way or another, or who display incomplete knowledge about, is give them something to really consider.

  • Vikenx

    Oh, sorry, for some reason I didn’t see the newer batch of comments where someone else pointed out the same things in theAKpal’s write-up. My apologies. I don’t want you to think that I think it was bad, either. I just like expanding on people’s ideas and my initial perception was that there were things that were miscomprehended. Though I don’t think the Black would be quite so easily manipulated, and the Black Ka’kari gave him access to his Talent (which he can now use even without it). Regardless, my apologies again.

    Well, it’s true that Kylar gets killed a lot after he bonds the Black Ka’kari. However, a lot of that can be tied to Kylar simply making errors in judgment due to a lack of understanding of how his Talent or the Ka’kari worked. In The Way of Shadows, before he bonded the Black, it was established that Kylar was one of the best assassins of the era (here I’m using assassin as different from wetboy, which it is). Frankly, he only manages to ever be killed by magic wielders, the ones that do have the enhancements (the exception being when he allows himself to be killed at the beginning of Beyond the Shadows). And those character flaws humanize Kylar in a way you rarely to never see an assassin character humanized… all too often they’re rather one-dimensional, especially when it comes to their trade. That’s why I like him… because he is a complex character that is extremely good at what he does, even if his lack of magic training and incomprehension of what he’d become forced him to make faulty assumptions and errors in judgment for a while. I really got into the character’s head, and I found a lot there. Same with other characters from the novels. And that’s why I’m a fan of the story, and the writing style of Mr. Weeks that helped me get into them.

    Of course, I don’t expect everyone’s experience to be the same, and I don’t mean to tell you that you must feel the same way. You just asked, so I thought I’d try to explain why I personally am a fan.

  • dpomerico

    We hear you all, concerning the state of the write-ups (and while we don’t necessarily agree, we definitely hear you!). So, as such, we want YOU to give us how you think the fight will go.

    The one we like best will be kept on the site permanently, with the writer getting full credit.

    If you want to start submitting, just start placing your write-ups in the comments of this post:

    Can’t wait to see what you come up with!

  • doc


    Kylar, Cale, Mr. Wednesday or a handful of others could easily have taken out Rahl.

    Granny only got this far because of how much people like the character, though. Not because it made sense.

  • I have read a few of the articles on your website now,