Cage Match 2010, Round 4: 14) Kvothe versus 15) Jaime Lannister



Image courtesy of Kim Kincaid


Image courtesy of Michael Komarck

The Kingkiller
Age: Mid-20s
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Magic and his sharp wit
Special Attack: Misdirection

Jaime Lannister
The Kingslayer
Age: 34
Race: Human
Weapons / Artifacts: Sword (Valyrian steel; borrowed from Tommen)
Special Attack: Insanely hot

  • Mesmerizes foes with his lute and sing-song voice
  • Master Namer
  • A living legend

  • The greatest swordsman of his age
  • Golden hair, flashing green eyes, killer smile (18 Charisma)
  • Has no qualms about murdering and/or crippling children

  • Just wants to be left alone

  • Missing his sword hand

  • Garet Jax (His search is finally over)
  • Aslan (TAMED)
  • Albus Dumbledore (Guess those Horcruxes were a good idea)

  • Hermione Granger (Looks like someone got a “Troll” on their Survival N.E.W.T.)
  • Cthulhu (Even death can die… and so can big fat Elder Beings)
  • Temeraire (That’s what you get for “dragon” your ass)

Click here for Patrick Rothfuss’ idea of how this fight would go!

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It was midmorning, and the autumn sun was hot as Jaime Lannister opened the door of the Waystone Inn. The place was oddly quiet, and he peered through the door, one hand resting lightly on his sword.

The taproom was empty except for a dark-haired young man lounging behind the bar. “Can I help you?”

Jaime stepped inside. “I’m looking for the owner. We have… business.”

The young man stood up straighter. “He’s stepped out for a moment. You’re Jaime?”

Jaime frowned slightly as he looked the young man over. “I am. And you are?”

“Bast.” The young man said with a grin. “He said I’m to make you comfortable if you showed up early. He shouldn’t be more than an hour or two. Can I get you something to drink?”

Jaime moved to sit at the bar. “I don’t suppose you have any decent wine out here in the ass end of nowhere?”

“What do you mean by decent?” Bast asked.

Jaime waved a hand dismissively. “Why don’t you bring out your best bottle? I’ll tell you if it’s something worth drinking.”

Bast looked offended as he headed down the basement stairs, returning a moment later with a dusty bottle.

“Something off the top shelf, I hope,” Jamie said.

“Something from behind the shelf,” Bast said proudly. “I can’t keep track of what the wines are called in these parts, but I’m guessing when you hide a bottle, it’s the good stuff.”

Bast worked a corkscrew and opened the bottle with a deft flourish. Then he brought out a tall wineglass, poured an inch of deep red wine into it, and held it out with an ingratiating smile.

Jaime made no motion to take it. “You drink half.”

Bast glanced down at the glass, then back up, his smile fading. “It tells you a lot about a man when he says something like that.”

Jaime showed his teeth in a sharp, joyless expression that had the shape of a smile. “It says a lot about you,” he said smugly, “that you aren’t willing to drink it.”

Bast gave a dismissive sniff, picked up the glass, and took a mouthful of the dark wine. Then he raised his eyebrows and made an appreciative noise as he picked up the bottle and eyed the engraving on the neck. “I can see why he hid this one,” Bast said, pouring more into the glass. “That’s just lovely.”

Jaime shrugged. “Ah well,” he said. “You know what they say. Better safe than sore,” he held out his hand.

Bast brought the glass close to his chest, his blue eyes icy. “This is my drink now.” He took another sip of the wine. “Rude guests go thirsty. Drink your own piss for all I care.”

Jaime’s expression went dark. “I’m not here for you,” he said. “But killing you wouldn’t be far out of my way.”

They stared at each other for a while across the bar. After a moment, Bast set the bottle down hard on the bar. “Fine,” he said, nudging it so it slid forward. “I won’t insult you by offering you a glass or anything. I could poison that, too. You’ll just have to drink it right from the bottle…” Bast grinned. “Like an unlettered cretin.”

Jaime picked up the bottle. “Boy,” he said. “If it makes you feel brave to show your teeth to me, go right ahead. But I’ll only tolerate so much.” He took a drink straight from the bottle, paused, and took another slower drink as if to make sure of something. He looked surprised. “Well, that is good, isn’t it?”

Bast nodded and took another sip.

“Did he say when he’ll be back?”

Bast looked down at his feet. “A couple hours,” he said with an odd tone in his voice. “He wasn’t expecting you until noon.”

“Don’t look so glum, boy,” Jaime said. “Look at the bright side. In a couple hours I’ll be on my way and you’ll be the owner of this fine inn.”

Bast looked up and his eyes were anxious. “I don’t suppose I could convince you to call this off?”

Jaime gave a humorless laugh and took another drink. “Good lord, boy. Why on earth would I do that?”

“Human decency?” Bast said.

Something about this struck the golden-haired man as funny, and he erupted into a great belly laugh that lasted for nearly a minute. Eventually he trailed off, wiping the water from his eyes. “You just earned yourself a tip, boy.” He shook his head in disbelief and took another drink.

“It’s just that…” Bast began.

“Look, boy.” Jaime leaned forward onto the bar. “I can tell you’re a talker. You probably learned that from him. I hear he’s got a silver tongue on him. Talked his way right out of the fight with the god-lion.” He gave Bast a serious look, his eyes hard as flint. “But that isn’t going to do him any good here.”

Jamie took another drink from the bottle before continuing. “You see, I’ve done some asking around. Your Kvothe has a bit of a reputation. Clever, quick. Devil with a sword. Strong as a bear. He can call down fire and lightning.” Jaime shook his head. “But I think all that is just stories. And the parts that aren’t just stories, he lost long ago.” He looked around the empty inn. “He wouldn’t be hiding here if he still had a scrap of power to call his own.”

Bast looked dejected, but he didn’t say anything.

“I’ll offer him a chance to surrender.” Jaime said magnanimously. “As thanks for this excellent bottle of wine.” He took one last drink and pushed it away from himself on the bar. “That’s enough of that. Start to turn my head, otherwise.”

“He might surprise you.” Bast said.

“With what?” Jaime said, laughing again. “That sword has dust on it, and his magic’s gone from what I hear. His silver tongue isn’t any good on me. He doesn’t even play music any more. What’s left?”

“I need to show you something,” Bast said. “Come here behind the bar.”

Jaime turned his shoulders, then frowned, looking down at his feet.

“Never mind,” Bast said, starting to walk around the bar. “I’ll come over to you.”

“Why can’t I move my legs?” Jaime said, his voice quiet and incredulous.

“Sethora,” Bast said simply. “It tends to start with the legs. You can probably still move your arms. But be careful or you’ll….” Jaime turned on his stool and toppled messily to the floor. “…Yeah. You’ll do that.”

Jaime writhed a bit, turning onto his side. Moving his arms sluggishly he managed to pull a long knife from his belt and throw it at Bast as came out from behind the bar. But the throw went wild and sunk into one of the thick-timbers of the tables.

Bast approached where the big man lay, stepping gracefully as a dancer. He stayed well out of arm’s reach through the man’s final struggles, waiting until he saw the tall man’s breathing grow stiff and labored.

“It was in the wine,” Bast stepped close and brushed the man’s golden hair out of his eyes. “I can’t believe you managed to drink so much of it. You must have the constitution of an ox.”

“But you…” Jaime’s mouth shaped the words though he lacked the breath to say them.

“You think I wouldn’t drink poison for him?” Bast asked. “Then you don’t know anything about him.”

Bast met the man’s glassy eyes. “You’re right. He’s not what he used to be. He’s lost everything. No magic. No music. No joy. No hope. You know what he has? You know what’s left?” Bast leaned closer, his voice low and vicious. “Me!” He practically spat the word, his eyes were wild. “He has me!”

The young man stood, took a fistful of the tall man’s golden hair, and began to drag his limp body across the floor.

Click here for George R.R. Martin’s idea of how the fight will go!

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The three Lannisters rode along the forest road side by side.

“Let me understand this,” Jaime said, still incredulous.   “I’ve defeated a witch, a mad god, and a dragon.  So now they match me up against an innkeep.”  He did not like the sound of that one bit.   Cutting down common serving men was hardly the path to glory.  There had to be some trap here, some hidden danger.  “What did the fellow do that they want him dead so badly?  Piss in someone’s beer?”

Tyrion grinned.  “Don’t protest too much, brother.  You’ve killed innkeeps before.”

Jaime had almost forgotten about him.  It annoyed him to be reminded.  “Only the one.”  The things I do for love.  “Our sweet sister insisted.”

“Must I be blamed for everything?”  Cersei’s green eyes blazed.  “The man deserved it.  The service was wretched.”

“Kvothe is rather more than an innkeep, actually, ” Tyrion said, mildly.  “Or he was.  He sings as well.  Plays the lute.”

“An innkeep and a singer.  I may well piss myself.  Does he knows ‘The Bear and the Maiden Fair?’”

Tyrion laughed.  “He may.  He’s an educated fellow.  Went to a famous school.”

Jaime groaned.  “Not another one from that Hogfart’s place?  Seven save me.”

“No, not Hogwart’s,” said the dwarf.  “This school was more like our Citadel, truth be told.  You know, brother, it would not hurt you to read a book from time to time.”

“That’s what I have you for,” said Jaime.  “What else do you know about this Kvothe?”

“He’s dabbled in sorcery.   Knows the name of the wind, I hear.”

“It had best not be Mariah,” Jaime said darkly.

Tyrion chuckled.  “No, that’s from an entirely different tale.”

“I suppose we had best fight indoors, then,” Jaime said.  “That should make it more difficult for him to blow me away.  Can he use a sword?”

“After a fashion,” said his brother.

Which describes me as well, Jaime thought glumly.  Long practice had made him almost adequate with his left hand, but it would never be the equal of the right the Bloody Mummers had taken from him.  The golden hand strapped to the end of his stump was the next best thing to useless.  It still amazed him that he had survived his first three matches.

They reached the village not long after.  A dismal place,  Jaime concluded after a quick glance around.  The villagers looked fairly dismal too.  They stared at the three Lannisters as if they had never seen a lord before.  Perhaps they haven’t.

Kvothe’s inn was called the Wayfarer.   The common room was crowded when he entered with his siblings.   More rustics gaped at them from every hand.  Come to see their innkeep die?  he wondered.  That’s one swift way to settle your account.

One glance from Cersei was enough to send the locals scrambling out of their way.  The three Lannisters settled themselves at a table near the door, ignoring the stares.  Jaime looked about for his foe.  He was not hard to find.   He was back by the wine casks, talking intently as his companion scratched upon a parchment.  “Who is the scribbler?” he asked.

“His chronicler,” said Tyrion.

Jaime frowned.  “Is he writing out some spell or charm to protect him?”

“I think not.  Just the story of his life.”

Cersei’s laughter filled the inn.  “Oh, how droll.  An innkeep with a biographer.  ‘Chapter the Fifth, I learn to scrub out pots!”

That was when the youth appeared, with a flagon of wine and three cups.  “Our best wine,” he announced.  “With the compliments of the house.”

Jaime was not thirsty.  Nor did he much like the look of the serving man.  He got to his feet.  “Time enough for drinking when we’re done.”  He strode across the room.

The innkeep broke off what he was saying.   “Ser Jaime.  You come early.  Have a drink, I will be with you shortly.  I am not quite done… ”

“Actually, you are.”  Jaime slid Widow’s Wail from its scabbard and slashed at the redhead’s neck, all in one swift motion.  That might have ended it then and then, but the scribbler was so startled that he raised his hands in dismay, which cost him half a quill and two good fingers… but gave Kvothe the half a heartbeat that he needed to avoid the blow.  Jaime kicked the table over as the innkeep came scrambling to his feet, but Kvothe leapt back adroitly.   A moment later his own sword was in his hand.

Jaime grinned.  “Good,” he said.  “Steel on steel.   My favorite sort of music.”

The swords did all the singing then.  Back and forth across the inn they fought.  Jaime pressed the attack at first, hoping to end it quickly, but Kvothe was not unskilled, and his blade turned every blow, and answered cut for cut.  The tide turned suddenly as the red-haired singer went on the offense, pressing Jaime back.   One slash almost took his nose off.  Tyrion and I could have passed for twins, he thought as he danced away.

Kvothe was good, he had to grant him that.  Probably as good as Jaime was, fighting without his proper sword hand.  But where he still trained every day with the likes of Ilyn Payne, the innkeep spent his time drawing ale and washing dishes and serving bowls of stew, and after a time that began to tell.  And Kvothe’s sword was not worthy of its wielder.  A decent weapon, no doubt, but Widow’s Wail was Valyrian steel, forged with dragonflame and tempered with spells, and every time the two blades touched another chip was carved from Kvothe’s sword.

And all at once, the innkeep found himself holding half a sword.

That was when the young serving man tried to interfere.  But Tyrion had crept up behind him with a dagger, and that put an end to that.

Then Jaime put an end to Kvothe.  A feint to the heart, checked by the broken blade, became a killing thrust through the throat.

The scribbler was huddled in the corner, cradling his bloody hand.  “Every tale needs an ending, chronicler,” Jaime told him, as he wiped the blood off Widow’s Wail.  “There’s yours.”  He turned and smiled at the smallfolk.  “The drinks are on Casterly Rock, my friends.”  Cersei left a pile of golden dragons on the table, to cover the cost of all the wine and beer.  “A Lannister always his debts,” she announced, as they took their leave to begin the long ride home.

How we think the fight will go“I’m sick of this,” Jaime muttered. “Every time I go up against one of these unworthies, the naysayers harp on my lack of magic…and the lack of my hand.”He looked down where the missing appendage was replaced by the mocking gold–it was worth a fortune, but worthless when it came to these fights.And yet he had won! Every time, against powerful opponents. Opponents who, he would even admit in hindsight, were not quite as “unworthy” as he might boast. Opponents he had no right besting.A powerful young witch…

A mind-boggling beast of evil…

A warrior-dragon…

All of them destroyed by his hands.


He spat into the ground.

Across the field stood a man–a man that was supposed to have died much earlier, too. Apparently he was one of those who had tried to refuse to fight, but ended up killing his enemies with potent magics.

It is said he can destroy me by simply saying my name.

“Ho, Ser Jaime!” the man called out, causing Jaime to flinch. But the knight didn’t disappear when his name was said. He smiled.

“And to you, Kvothe.”

“I feel it would be unfair for me to just say your true name and be done with this.” Reaching towards his belt, he pulled out a sword. Jaime wasn’t surprised to see he held it competently.

“You say ‘just,’ though, as if that could be an option in the future–as when you are losing to me,” Jaime said, drawing Valyrian steel in a fluid motion.

“I promise you, Ser–I didn’t mean it that way. I am a man who values–”

What he valued was cut off by a vicious swipe of Jaime’s sword. Kvothe, a trained swordsman in his own right, parried easily, although he was taken off guard.

“Fool!” Jaime snarled, launching into an offensive series designed to give Kvothe no time to do anything but react.

And react he did, Jaime noticed. Kvothe’s skill was apparent, and his counters were close to being reversals. It was only Jaime’s experience at dueling that kept him at the advantage–for the moment. He did curse, though, the fact that he was fighting with his off hand. No matter how much he trained, he was still overthinking, and not just fighting on instinct–

Which is when Kvothe’s parry turned into a a glancing cut across his bicep.

For the most part his armor deflected the blow, but it was the surprise of having his own defenses breached–especially so early into the fight–that threw him off. He stepped back, signaling a pause which–given his initial attack–he was surprised Kvothe consented to.

“You fight well,” Kvothe said.

“Screw you!” Jaime yelled. “I will not be patronized by a…a mere jester!” He attacked again and, again, Kvothe blocked all his thrusts and swings. He seemed to show no interest in actually engaging any more offensive maneuvers of his own.

“I am no minstrel,” Kvothe said, his voice quiet. “Just as you are not truly Jaime Lannister.”

Jaime stepped back again, and this time there was fear in his eyes. But, again, Kvothe had said his name, but nothing happened.

“You know nothing of who I truly am,” Jaime said. “And even if you do say my true name, it just proves that you have no more honor than I.”

“Be that as it may, the more I converse with you, the more I realize you need to be cleansed from this world.” Kvothe looked around at the unfamiliar surroundings. “Any world,” he amended.


Kvothe looked at Jaime–and kept looking at him. He stared in disbelief at Jaime…and then at the knife sticking out of his own chest. He looked back up at Jaime, and saw the Valyrian sword on the ground, dropped so that the knight could throw the knife.

“But…I said…your true name…”

Jaime stood over Kvothe. “If you think of me only as the Kingslayer, then you know me not at all.” Reaching down, he grabbed the hilt of the dagger and jerked upwards. A strangled gurgling sound emitted from Kvothe, but no more words came out.

“But I will certainly be known as Kvothe-slayer from now on.”

Predicted Winner: Jaime Lannister

(Kvothe is a character from Patrick Rothfuss’s novel The Name of the Wind; Jaime Lannister is a character from George R.R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire series.)

Who will win?trends





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Watch the video recap for the Round 3 and see our predictions for the final four!

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493 responses to “Cage Match 2010, Round 4: 14) Kvothe versus 15) Jaime Lannister”

  1. GeminiTheSpy says:

    Are any other Jaime supporters actually a little worried because of the fact that Jaime is actually the predicted winner this time? If I was superstitious, I might call that a bad omen, but then… I’m not superstitious.
    Anyhow, I really liked how Jaime’s depth as a character played a factor in this write-up. There’s just too much to him to define him in one simple name.
    That aside, much as I love Jaime, I’m also a huge Kvothe fan, so what I would have loved to see would be the two of them sitting down at Kvothe’s bar, discussing he finer points of killing kings, then teaming up and taking down the next opponent together, but alas… One can only dream.
    Kingslayer, though that not necessarily be your true name, I cast thee my vote.
    order and cHaos

  2. Kevo says:

    If Kvothe uses sympathy, he wins.
    If he does not, Jaime wins.
    I would sell my aunt to actually see this fight as written by either Rothfuss or Martin.
    This is such a hard decision, because they’re both awesome characters!
    /voting for Kvothe, because his next book will probably be coming out before Dance o’ Dragons

  3. The Jaguar says:

    My thoughts on how the fight would go. (I wrote this in the 20 minutes before the match started and before reading the write-up, haha. It would seem some thoughts were shared!)
    Jaime Lannister watched as the young man across the tourney grounds walked slowly towards him. Kvothe was playing his lute and singing softly; Jaime was too far away to hear anything but a whisper on the wind. The crowd in the stands were silent, listening for the merest hint of the melody.
    The two opponents stopped moving when they were twenty yards apart, Kvothe still playing softly and humming, Jaime standing silent and waiting. Kvothe looked up at Jaime and smiled, then whispered a word that sent shivers down Jaime’s spine.
    When nothing more happened, the smile faded from Kvothe’s face, and he said another word to the same effect. Now a smile slowly stretched across Jaime’s face as he slowly paced forward. Kvothe began to look nervous and confused as he shouted out yet another word. This word Jaime felt wrap around him, taste him, feel him, and leave him chilled.
    “It would seem that since even I don’t know who I truly am now, neither can you,” said Jaime with a smirk as he laid his sword point at Kvothe’s neck. “Surrender, serve me as minstrel, and you will be richly rewarded,” Jaime continued after a pointed pause, “or die here and now.”
    Kvothe responded with incredible speed, spinning away from Jaime’s blade with only a thin trail of blood leading across his neck from where Jaime’s sword cut him. Setting his lute down gently and pulling free his sword all in a moment, he turned to meet Jaime’s sword upon his own as it descended with unbelievable speed.
    Kvothe and Jaime pushed each other across the whole of the tourney grounds, neither gaining an advantage, neither giving up anything more than scratches. Kvothe’s sword would leave upon Jaime’s golden armor scratches in some places, dents in yet others. Jaime’s sword left bleeding tears in Kvothe’s clothing, and gaping rents upon his swirling cloak.
    After an hour of fighting, the contestants were both sweat soaked and tiring. “Thank god he doesn’t have his other hand” Kvothe thought in a momentary respite before Jaime was once more upon him, sword whistling through the air to be met once again by Kvothe’s dull grey blade. Kvothe once again tried to use the wind to his advantage, shouting out his anger at Lannister. The wind blasted down upon Jaime, but once again had little effect on his armor weighted form as he twirled away from Kvothe and then back towards him as the wind passed, all in one smooth motion that simply made his next swing all the stronger.
    As Kvothe’s sword tumbled through the air, Kvothe could not help but to see his death upon the crimson and grey sword in Jaime’s hand. But Kvothe still had a purpose in life, he stood and said “How rich exactly?” To which Jaime replied, “Very.”
    “And so did I surrender to Jaime Lannister, the Kingslayer.”
    “You lost?” Chronicler blurted in shock.
    “It’s only the first day, after all. I haven’t won every fight I’ve ever had, scribe. My story is far from over.”

  4. Bunbury says:

    I really should have voted before reading the fight description. You’d think I would have learned my lesson from previous matches, but I guess I’m thick-skulled.
    I keep trying to place Jaime’s personality chronologically in Martin’s story. He seems to be a fairly even mix of the “old” and “new” Jaime.
    My only real critique is that your version of events is a bit anti-climactic. It would be nice to have a more epic struggle between these guys, since they are both fan favorites. Just my two cents.

  5. PC says:

    I voted for Jaime, but I’ll probably pick up a copy of ‘The Name of the Wind’ and check it out.

  6. Starhammer says:

    This is a tough one. These are two excellent characters from two amazing series of books (even if Rothfuss hasn’t released book two yet).
    Realistically, Kvothe would win hands down. No contest. He’s an excellent fighter, a powerful magic user (sympathy) and a ‘Namer’ who knows the true names of things and thus has power over them.
    Kvothe is also exceptionally clever and brilliant, which is probably the root of his gifts. He would never in a million years approach this contest as portrayed in the prediction write up (entertaining as it is).
    Regardless of that, this is mainly a popularity contest and Jaime Lannister is a deservedly very popular character.
    It could really go either way, but I’m guessing the sheer numbers of Martin’s fans will probably give Jaime the edge here.
    However, of the two of them Kvothe is the only one who stands a chance against Rand. If Jaime wins here I see Rand winning the contest.

  7. Kemm says:

    Maybe it’s me, but, aren’t Kvote’s kills Temeraire’s?

  8. kkeir says:

    I am hoping both authors do write-ups, that could be truly entertaining.

  9. dpomerico says:

    Yeah. Although we did get Dumbledore right.
    It’s fixed now.

  10. Kemm says:

    Sorry for doubleposting but, Starhammer, did you realizaed that Valyrian steel is like cuendillar? And Kvothe can’t kill Rand, since his true name is long forgotten in the Wheel’s turning (not Rand, not Lews Therin, not Dragon).

  11. The Jaguar says:

    I’ve read both, and don’t agree with the official write-up’s view of how Jaime or Kvothe would react, though some parts are similar.
    I personally think we don’t know enough about Kvothe’s capabilities or limits to know how the fight would go, only knowing what we know from book one, and from what has been said about him, I think it should be a rather close match.
    I have to disagree on Kvothe being the only one to stand a chance against Rand though. Rand gets his power from his world, take the fight outside of his world and he has to use his sword. Jaime, Drizzt, and Kvothe all stand a chance against him as long as they don’t play in his back yard.

  12. Starhammer says:

    @Kemm: Have you read the Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss? If you haven’t, you should. It’s an excellent book. Something that he shares with Martin is that like Martin, his prose are excellent.
    As to the topic at hand, Jaime’s Valerian steel is completely irrelevant, he wouldn’t even get to use it.
    Also lets not forget that in the blurbs and write ups we are being unrealistically kind as to the extent of Jaime’s remaining fighting skills since losing his hand. It’s made very clear in A Feast for Crows that at this point, he can’t fight any more. He has not been able to develop his fighting skills with his left hand to anything even remotely passable – which is part of what makes the character so interesting. He has to re-define himself now.
    This too, is a moot point, as he really wouldn’t get the chance to ‘fight’ Kvothe in that manner anyway. Kvothe would make some clever use of his wits, some Sympathy, and or Naming and it would be done with.
    Regardless, Jaime will probably win the match under the weight of sheer fan numbers, just as every character who wins does on every match.

  13. Bill says:

    I’ve grown to really like Kvothe in this tournament. I’ll tell you though, Jaime is very, very hard to beat. Not because he has super powers or magic or pigtails, but because he’s a hard motherf*****, and hmf’s are hard to kill. *shrug* sorry Kvothe, but I can’t think of any way you can win this one.

  14. The Jaguar says:

    Don’t forget Halfhand. And Jaime’s been working like mad in the fourth book to regain his level of skill. It can always be assumed that this Jaime is the Jaime who’s learned how to use his left hand better than he ever used his right hand.

  15. Starhammer says:

    @The Jaguar: The same argument can be made for Kvothe. So far we only have the first book and are basing his abilities on what we read there. One could assume that this is the Kvothe that has become a demigod, killed The Chandrian, killed an angel, consorted with all kinds of powers etc. ad nauseum.
    Oh yea, and Kvothe has some kind of uber powerful magic sword too that we don’t know much about yet.

  16. The Jaguar says:

    If this is the Kvothe at the innkeeper point of his life, he’d have only his sword to help him, no naming or sympathy. We don’t know why, but he has no power at that point.
    We already know that Jaime was working on his sword skill, we know about Halfhand, and it makes sense that Jaime would become incredibly skilled with his left hand. We also know that Kvothe defeated those five spider monsters on his own with a rod of iron, we know that he apparently was taught how to fight (but we don’t know how well, by whom, or with what special abilities), and we know that he has a sword named Folly that is likely the equivalent of Vallyrian steel or Dawn.
    So I’d like to think that a fight between these two would come down to sword skill and experience.
    Either way however, both characters are great. I’ll be happy if Jaime wins, or if Kvothe wins. The only thing that would disappoint me is if Kvothe wins because people think he’s a “demigod” and can’t lose. As far as we know at this point in time, he most definitely isn’t that powerful.

  17. Liam says:

    Kvothe looked across the arena at the golden knight, slowly donning his armour and preparing for battle. From the brief glimpses he had had of the man, he could see the heavy burden of pain in the man’s eyes, and almost felt sorry for the man.
    Certainly not sorry enough to die by this warrior’s hand though, and Kvothe knew better than to underestimate this opponent. A talented young mage and a mighty dragon had already died by this knight’s hand…and a god.
    No, Kvothe would come prepared to this one.
    The knight finally donned his helm and entered the arena, his armour glistening in the midday sun like a character out of some epic poem. Kvothe strode out to meet him.
    “I want you to know that if not for this battle I would have no reason to fight you. I am truly sorry for how this must turn out.”
    “Silence mage, I’m not interested in your foolery. I grow tired of this game, let’s make this quick.”
    “Very well.” Kvothe drew folly, falling into a stance, and carefully watching the knight’s movements.
    “Really? No ‘true name’? No dazzling magic? I’m almost disappointed.”
    “My condolences. Didn’t feel a fight to the death was the proper place for spectacle.”
    “Well I hope you know how to use that sword then. You hold it competently enough. Perhaps you…perhaps you are…perhaps you…are…hot..”
    “Perhaps I’m hot?!” Kvothe looked down at himself in mock dismay. “But…I mean I’ve been working out. Don’t you think that’s a little harsh?”
    By this time, the golden knight was tearing at his armour frantically, flinging his helm across the field. “HOT!! GAAH IT BUUURNS”
    “..oh YOU’RE hot. Now I see.” Kvothe looked back at the small fire blazing behind him, a tiny golden statuette barely noticeable through the flames.
    “Listen, I really am sorry how this turned out. However, someone has to figure out how to beat balefire, and…well I’m sure it isn’t you. Would also be a shame to put all that preparation I’ve done to waste. No hard feelings eh?”
    The knight was oblivious, ripping off pieces of armour to reveal red blistered flesh beneath. He barely noticed as Folly ran him through from behind.

  18. Jaded bookworm says:

    you really really should! infact. google “patrick rothfuss” to dig up his personal blog and offical website for an excerpt of the first few pages. You’ll be hooked i tell you.

  19. mike says:

    My vote is for Ser Jaime, I haven’t read the Rothfuss book yet, but I am rereading the song of ice and fire for the third time(again with no hope of reading A Dance with Dragons at the end–damn you GRRM), and I think that it will be the golden haired Lannister, hands down. especially if he listens to Tyrion’s advice before the fight.

  20. Jaded bookworm says:

    Kvothe isn’t as stupid to underestimate someone who has survived cthulu.
    I vote for Kvothe.

  21. Jaded bookwormd says:

    XD i think thats the most likely situation in which kvothe would lost. If that was the write up, i would vote for lannister despite not liking him very much.

  22. Samuel says:

    Gah! Damn thee, fates, for thy cruel caprices! In a perfect world, Kvothe would at this moment be owning al’Thor, even as Jaime proved, once and for all, that a poncy drow is no match for a Lannister.
    While this was occurring, of course, Martin and Rothfuss would be preparing for their epic blurb-off, containing charrie’s individual moves, and…
    Yeah. Well. I can dream, right?
    Damn, but I love them both too much. I’m going to hold off on voting for now, at least until I’m sure we don’t get a blurb.

  23. Kayla says:

    I’ve read ASoIaF and have just started in on The Name of Wind but before I cast my vote I’m going to wait and see if the authors do a write up. That, I think, will be my deciding factor

  24. Harkness says:

    This is silly… why would Kvothe just sit there in disbelief? And names aren’t things like Kingslayer or Bob or Joe, they’re something different entirely. Obviously, Suvudu is just reacting to the outcry that they were “favoring” Kvothe. Overreacting. I’ll bet that someone who comes in here not knowing either character will vote for Jaime simply because the writer has painted Kvothe as an idiotic, pompous, deer-in-headlights B-list swordsman. That’s not what he is. He has SYMPATHY, for Tehlu’s sake. Please rewrite a remotely believable scenario for this battle.

  25. Furrymoose says:

    Alright. Comparing what I know about these two characters. (Read NOTW. Haven’t yet read ASoIaF. But I’m writing down what I’ve pieced together.)
    Kvothe- Has skill with the sword as shown when he beat the scrael with an iron bar.
    Jaime- Lost his hand, and his swordfighting skills are somewhat questionable.
    Kvothe- Has Sympathy, as well as Naming.
    Jaime- Doesn’t.
    Both have some skill with a sword.
    Both have beaten a god. (Though neither through direct combat.)
    Comparing the two, I really can’t see why Jaime would have so many votes except for:
    Kvothe- Fairly large fanbase.
    Jaime- Absolutely ginormous fanbase.
    That’s really the only reason Jaime would win. But definitely not for his skills as Kvothe seems be better prepared for the fight.
    (I do find the similarities in titles interesting, though. Kingslayer vs. Kingkiller. Also, the original title of the Kingkiller Chronicle was “A Song of Flame and Thunder” as opposed to “A Song of Ice and Fire”.)

  26. Hunter says:

    Valyrian steel is not like cuendillar. One is still steel although extremely high quality, made through forgotten forging techniques while the other is a virtually unbreakable material made with the one power. Even a power wrought sword would be stronger than valyrian steel. Also Rand’s true name isn’t forgotten. With each spinning of the wheel the soul is reborn gaining a new true name. Rand al Thor and Lews Therin Telamon were both true names during their respective age. Dragon and Kinslayer were obviously not.

  27. Chris says:

    As much as I like both characters, I’m voting Kvothe. He won’t win because of all of the (deserved) GRRM fans, but I think that no matter how you look at it, Kvothe is the better fighter.
    Kvothe has not lost any of his fighting skills at any point, and Jamie only has one hand. Plus the magic and naming, and this one is hands down a winner for Kvothe.
    With that said, when Jamie wins I *will* be voting for him in the finals. FANBOYS UNITE! 😉

  28. siimen says:

    “Realistically, Kvothe would win hands down. No contest. He’s an excellent fighter, a powerful magic user (sympathy) and a ‘Namer’ who knows the true names of things and thus has power over them.
    Kvothe is also exceptionally clever and brilliant, which is probably the root of his gifts. He would never in a million years approach this contest as portrayed in the prediction write up (entertaining as it is).”
    Yes and yes and yes and yes to all this.
    I love Jaime.
    I love Kvothe.
    Jaime is regular human.
    Kvothe is multiple genius.
    Both are very well written.
    I KNOW that Jaime probably wins this one too – but I vote for Kvothe, at least for some justice.

  29. frantiforce says:

    Not voting yet. Waiting for the write-ups from PR and GRRM…
    I might have to give it to Kvothe, though, if only because in this write up Jaime sounds like a douchetool.

  30. Elis says:

    Well if the current percentages stay true, it looks like it’s going to be an epic fake battle between two foes each missing a hand. Obviously, we all love an underdog. An underdog missing its paw, even better.

  31. Furrymoose says:

    I love how all the comments say Kvothe and all the votes say Jaime. I mean, Jaime has almost twice as many votes. I wish there was like a rule saying that in order to vote for someone you have to give at least one reason why your person would win.

  32. frantiforce says:

    funny I should encounter you again, Furrymoose!
    I disagree that Jaime has a bigger fanbase than most of the characters. certainly, people who have heard of A Song of Ice and Fire are far outnumbered by people who have read Wheel of Time, any of Salvatore’s bastardized write-ups of his weekly DnD group, or fuck, even Twilight.
    I think Jaime’s got the edge because GRRM and his series inspires more loyalty than those other series. GRRM himself is popular, but only mildly so, even among Fantasy fans. What he has going for him is the fact that, because the fifth book has been taking so goddamn long to come out, people who’ve read the four published want to find out more, so they go join the facebook ASOIAF group, or BwB, or at least check out his blog/website/etc.
    So I don’t think he’s more popular. I just think he’s more popular among people who would tend to prowl suvudu… so it becomes moot. But.

  33. Gregor says:

    This was a toughie…. Both are intensely skilled swordsmen. We can assume Jaime has regained his previous form from previous write-ups, and we know Kvothe is good from his fight with the spider things (plus, Kvothe is good at EVERYTHING).
    End the end, I voted Jaime for 2 reasons (well 3, if you count fanboyism, but then, I love Kvothe as well). The first – this write up. Kvothe is arrogant, he sees himself as the best of the best, probably even moreso after defeating Aslan et all. It wouldnt be beyond him to go into a fight against a ‘washed up one armed swordsman’ thinking he’s gonna take it easily.
    While he’s doing that, Jaime can run him through.
    The second reason is, Jaime is the last pure warrior left in this competition, and he has been for sometime. Screw magic, warriors represent!

  34. Gregor says:

    “Well I hope you know how to use that sword then. You hold it competently enough. Perhaps you…perhaps you are…perhaps you…are…hot..”
    Oh my, at this point in your write up, I thought it was going to turn into some blonde on redhead action! :O Wouldnt have been the worst way it could turn out I guess 😉

  35. Furrymoose says:

    Alright. Let me rephrase that. Jaime has a much larger active fanbase than most other characters. Jaime and Rand seem to have the biggest, seeing how they completely own everyone by tons of percentage points whereas Kvothe has gotten by with a relatively small lead in each match. Put these two fanbases head-to-head and the Jaime fanbase is gonna demolish the Kvothe fanbase. I don’t see how it could only be the 5th book taking so long that would make people vote for Jaime as the Wise Man’s Fear is taking blinkin’ ages to come out as well. Man, slow authors frustrate me… though a great book can usually make up for that.
    As to Gregor’s comment, Kvothe only thinks he’s the best because he is. He flew through the ranks of the Academy at such a young age, that he couldn’t help being a bit cocky. Though you’re right in the fact that he went a bit far in that arrogance eventually.

  36. Joe Dalton says:

    I am sure that Rand or Lannister will win.

  37. Furrymoose says:

    I dunno… If Jaime wins this, then obviously one of them will win. But Kvothe may stand a chance against Rand…

  38. Cy says:

    @Gregor Ha ha, agreed–Jaime and Kvothe are apparently both very “guys’ guys” if all these fanboys are any evidence. The two of them in the same arena is probably more hotness than permissible in a single universe, so by all rights, the arena probably should’ve just spontaneously combusted when they walked into it. LoL.
    Well, I’m with all you folks who are saying Kvothe is the logical winner with his overwhelming skills and smarts, but sadly, the blindly voting, drooling masses of Jaime fanboys are doing their thing.
    Jaime fanboys, let me just say–you’re messing things up for everybody here. BE LOGICAL. Even if Jaime is sneaky and ruthless, Kvothe is a genius at reading opponents/battle situations–he wouldn’t let his guard down for a second around such a dangerous foe. There’s no way suvudu’s scenario would’ve happened. KVOTHE IS THE RIGHTFUL WINNER.

  39. lakesidey says:

    “As to Gregor’s comment, Kvothe only thinks he’s the best because he is. He flew through the ranks of the Academy at such a young age, that he couldn’t help being a bit cocky.”
    In fact Jaime is also cocky for the same reasons – remember his conversation with Loras where he remembers that he was the youngest ever to be appointed to the Kingsguard.
    “I was better than you, Ser Loras. I was bigger, I was stronger, and I was quicker.”
    “And now you’re older,” the boy said. “My lord.”
    I laughed out loud the first time I read that bit…
    I’ll wait to vote to see if either (or hopefully both) of the authors will blurb…I want to write one myself, but first will have to decide whom to support 🙂 This round, it’s tough…

  40. frantiforce says:

    Regardless of who has more powers to win against Rand (face it, either Kvothe or Jaime is going to have to contend with ROFLBALEFIRE in the future), it doesn’t matter. There are two ways we can look at this: Popularity contest or powers match.
    If it’s a LOGICAL powers match, Kvothe might take it, because apparently everyone here believes that you can just Name something out of existence (when no one really knows how it works). So anyway: Naming vs. Balefire seems like a chance.
    But if we go Popularity, Jaime could win. All the balefire fanboys will have to deal with the fact that most of the posters on suvudu, as well as the hosts, are all about ASOIAF and will probably go and vote in droves for Jaime. There’s a facebook group which has 10K+ members who are aware of suvudu and the cage match, as well as fans of GRRM who will come and vote if he does a write up.
    Logical has nothing to do with it. If we’re going to go for who’ll win eventually, it’s probably Jaime, Kvothe’s naming powers and general awesomeness notwithstanding.

  41. Cy says:

    Wait… so are we voting to determine who would actually win this match-up, or are we voting based on who we think could win the next round? I just take it one round at a time, as I imagine the contestants would be doing. =\

  42. Brett Graham says:

    Look, Kvothe is the only one who stands any chance against Rand. I understand that you Song of fire and ice fanboys out there think you can vote your little swordsman through all the odds, but trust me. There are far more wheel of time fans out there and they actually think about who would win these fights which Jaime won’t against balefire or really anything Rand has to offer, not to mention Rand is a better swordsman than Jaime anyway. Kvothe is the only hope of beating him down now since he has True Name, which is pretty much the only thing the Rand doesn’t have. I think that Kvothe might be able to command away the balefire if he plans it out well enough. Seriously guys, if we’re going to win against Rand it we need a harder hitter than Jaime. Besides, do you really think a swordsman could win against a master namer and accomplished magician anyway?

  43. Meh says:

    Kvothe was taught to fight by the Adem. It is mentioned several times in the first book. Also, it is mentioned that the only reason he cannot use sympathy is because he had given up on living, but we can assume that if he is taking part in these fights and is trying to win he has no longer given up, and therefore would have his sympathy back.

  44. Elis says:

    Your logic is a bit contradictory, you know that, right? What is the point of calling out that there are legions of WoT fans, if these fans supposedly “think about who would win these fights”? The first implies that being WoT fans, they would vote for a WoT character. In which case, they DON’T necessarily think about who would actually win, or they think about it the same way ASOIAF fans think of it — in a way that makes their preferred character come out on top.
    As has been argued in every single match Jaime’s been in so far, it’s not logical for him to win. He’s probably the least advantaged character in this tournament. He doesn’t have any magical powers (and given what I’ve read some of these others can do, they’re all ridiculously overpowered) and his sword hand is gone, for pete’s sake. Yes, logic dictates that he shouldn’t even have made it into the tournament in the first place. So if it were purely about logic, and not popularity, we wouldn’t even need a damn poll, the ‘obvious’ winners — the gods and dragons and what not — would just be declared the victors and no one would have to vote.
    As for Kvothe, you know, the CURRENT vote, I say that no matter what happens, he (and Patrick Rothfuss) wins. He may or may not win the fight against Jaime, but what he has won is a whole damn lot of people coming here to vote for Jaime and getting interested in “The Name of the Wind.” It’s free publicity!
    As for the next fight, if Jaime and Rand both do win their respective battles, I’m not a boy or a tween (and sort of resent all the comments that assume one or the other), but I think I will join with the rest and take on your challenge. Let us see if there ARE more Wheel of Time fans out there than Jaime/ASOIAF fans. I think you’re wrong, but time will tell.

  45. frantiforce says:

    Given that I’m a massive fan of The Name of the Wind and ASOIAF and that voting to kill either character fills me with despair, I AM voting based on who I think is more likely to Beat Rand in the next round. or Drizzt. Honestly both characters annoy me; I’ve attempted, heroically, to read the mishmash of Tolkien-cliches and overwriting that makes up The Wheel of Time series several times and always ALWAYS regret it. Drizzt just straight-up enrages me, as I’m sure it enrages any fantasy fan who’s risen above a 4th grade reading level.
    I think both characters can, but I’m expecting most of this “competition” comes down to fanboyishness, and in that respect Jaime is far more likely to win with the sounds of teary WoT fanboys masturbating helplessly to the non-sound of faster-than-time balefire devouring Jaime in their dreams than Kvothe. Just sayin.
    Though in this straight-up match, I think Kvothe would take it.

  46. The Jaguar says:

    Yeah, the Adem, but from the first book we really aren’t told WHO they are. We know their name, but we know very very little about them. Not enough to actually tell us anything useful.
    I just finished reading the Name of the Wind book a few days ago, and I don’t recall it being said anywhere that the reason Kvothe was without sympathy was that he had given up wanting to live.
    If the author has said anything concerning these things, I am not aware of them. Please link to his comments so that everyone here can know more about Kvothe.
    Like I said, Kvothe and Jaime are both great characters and it really doesn’t matter which one wins, because they’re both awesome. And either way, the winner will most likely have to go up against Rand. I think it would be Balefire if Kvothe vs Rand, and Swords if Jaime vs Rand (just make Rand come to Westeros to fight Jaime, there seems to be very little magic in the world with only three young dragons alive in it).

  47. MRTaylor says:

    Jaime is doing well in this tournament precisely BECAUSE of his limitations in battle, not in spite of them.
    It is, after all, a popularity contest. Jaime is extremely popular because he is real. Characters who are unkillable, omniscient, etc are BORING.
    That’s why God himself (or the idea of God) lost in the second round. He isn’t real, he isn’t relateable.
    Jaime is an amazing swordsman, the best, something he worked hard to become, something that eventually he lost. People don’t want superheroes anymore, they’re more interested in real people.

  48. archon says:

    I was one of those who made that point in prior matches…From a prespective of sheer power, left-handed Jaime has absolutely no buisness in this tourney… it would be like throwing a small-town high-school team into the NCAA tourney… Likewise, the unstoppable god-like beings would be like throwing the Cavaliers and Lakers into the NCAA tourney… the whole thing would be pointless if the intent was purely power-based… clearly, popularity is expected.

  49. jonathan entwisle says:

    Kvothe would win of course. They’re each the greatest swordsmen in their own respective universes but kvothe has magic too.

  50. dpomerico says:

    To be fair, though–and following this NCAA analogy–look at at team like Butler making it to the Final Four. If there’s a place for Cinderella’s, isn’t it in a tournament pitting fantasy characters against each other?

  51. lakesidey says:

    I vote Jaime. Reasons and rhymes follow:
    Here we find no ordinary players
    Complex men of many layers
    They be Kingkillers and Kingslayers
    Yet men of honour, all the same.
    (The referee, in his own world and times
    Is famous for stopping the gravest of crimes –
    Of kingslaying stock himself, Commander Vimes
    Starts the match, to much acclaim.)
    They don’t go straight at each other’s throats
    But sit on the sward and compare notes
    Of how, by dint of wiles and votes
    They’ve got thus far in the game
    “An old blademaster opened my score
    And then a Lion (hear him roar!)
    And lastly Albus Dumbledore
    And who have _you_ slain, friend Jaime?”
    “I encountered, first, a spell-casting broad
    Outmanouevred an Elder God
    Then beat a dragon, viciously clawed
    These foes I overcame!”
    “Well done, indeed! But can you withstand
    (Without the use of your swordfighting hand)
    The canniest fighter in all this fair land?
    I only need say your name
    And you will vanish! Yet I know
    That if I win the battle so
    By beating down a crippled foe
    I would feel rather lame
    So let us talk, o white-cloaked knight
    And let us do this thing aright
    For two such as ourselves to fight
    Would be a crying shame”
    “I am no God, nor yet a mage
    No scholar of the printed page –
    No doubt, you have the advantage
    This Lion, too, you might tame
    But you know well, this easy win
    Carries the seed of its loss therein
    For it will pit you against Lews Therin
    And his minions, Logain and Taim
    The only way to win that race,
    To beat the Dragon, face his face
    Is to possess a rabid base
    Of fans, boosting your claim”
    “You’re right” quotes Kvothe “ I’d be outpolled –
    I guess this is my time to fold!”
    He shakes the proferred hand of gold
    And walks out of the game
    Jaime whistles a tune at random
    And goes off to arouse his fandom
    To overthrow the might of Rand-dom
    In a song of Thunder and Flame!

  52. Gregor says:

    Yes, Jaime is undoubtedly as cocky as Kvothe, but Kvothe will be entering into battle with a swordsman missing his sword hand. Jaime will be entering into battle with a super powerful mage. Thus, Kvothe is going to be a little more sure of victory than Jaime, meaning Jaime can catch him off guard and simply stab him straight off the bat.
    Not to mention losing his sword hand was a massive blow to Jaimes cockyness. Most of his POV in ‘A Feast for Crows’ involved him being sickened with how weak he’d become.
    If nothing else Tyrion will offer council to Jaime pre-match, so we KNOW he will go in prepared, the same cant be said for Kvothe.
    @Furrymoose: dont get me wrong, Kvothe is awesome, arrogance or not
    @Cy: Boom Chicka Wow Wow in the ring? =o

  53. siimen says:


  54. lakesidey says:

    Umm….Gregor….*Clegane*??? If so, I w-w-wouldn’t _dream_ of arguing! YesSer!

  55. GeminiTheSpy says:

    You just about killed me, I laughed so hard. Well done. 🙂
    order and cHaos

  56. Gregor says:

    I remember being quite excited seeing that a character in a book had the same name as me 😛 Then I found out he was extremely dislikable xD Ah well, cant have it all your own way 😛

  57. Wafaa says:

    Exactly how does a guy with sympathy , 2 hands, great sword fighting skills, and one who knows the name of wind, lose to a guy with one hand (and not his sword one either) and no magical abilities to speak of? I mean it would take some pretty unbelievable luck for Lannister to survive…Oh, wait…where have I read this before?
    Kvothe FTW.

  58. Furrymoose says:

    It seems like it’s settled, then. The majority declare that against Rand Al’Thor, Kvothe would stand a better chance if it was a fair fight. However, since it probably won’t be, Jaime stands a better chance because he has tons and tons of fans behind him. Also, Kvothe would beat Jaime in a fight between the two unless Kvothe’s arrogance or underestimation got in the way, but again the fanbase swoops in for the kill in this fight.
    Some problems I have with that. If Kvothe, or even Rand, deserve to win, then why not let them? Why not make this a fair fight and let the best man win? Why must it be focused on taking down the Dragon Reborn? Another thing is that Kvothe usually didn’t underestimate his opponents. *Spoiler* He knew what Ambrose was capable of as well as the “draccus” at the end and still came out on top. So far. But the story already said that he knew what Jaime was capable of after seeing him defeat the previous opponents. So underestimation and arrogance are out. In the end, fan bases excluded, Kvothe should win this match, and possibly the next. But fan bases included, Jaime should win this match, and probably the next.
    By the way, that was some pretty epic poetry right there, I have to say. Very nice job, lakesidey.

  59. camillagluh says:

    Kvothe would win this fight. He’s got way more talents than just swordfighting, like Jaime.
    I expected Kvothe get a little angry when Jaime called him a minstrel and say something along the lines of, “We Ruh are NOT just minstrels!” but he didn’t. =( Sad.

  60. Dark angel says:

    LOL! and I really mean LOOOOOOOL! xD this is great (and sounds about right for cagematch) xD

  61. frantiforce says:

    best comment ever.

  62. Flugelhorn says:

    Is Kvothe a girl? To look at his picture and to hear all about this “name calling” business, Kvothe must be a girl.
    So, is The Name of the Wind any good? How can it be good if its only 1 book! To be good it has to be part of a long series of books with several volumes already published and several more to go with the next one are already 5 years behind schedule. One Book? Pshaw. How can Kvothe expect to compete with only 1 book?

  63. lakesidey says:

    Four books for the former archmage of Roke
    Seven for Lannisters rolling in sin
    Fourteen for that balefire-wielding bloke
    One for the kingkiller in his dark inn
    In the city of Tarbean, where the shadows lie
    One book to rule them all
    One book to tame them
    One book to bring them all
    And in the darkness name them
    In the city of Tarbean, where the shadows lie
    That’s how 🙂

  64. siimen says:

    Dear lakesidey!
    Are you male? Because I just might marry you if you were.
    If you are female, I can only offer my devotion and love.

  65. DiapDealer says:

    “How can it be good if its only 1 book! To be good it has to be part of a long series of books with several volumes already published and several more to go with the next one are already 5 years behind schedule.”
    You kid, I know, but I actually pray every night that someday–stand-alone fantasy books will dominate the genre.

  66. “I disagree that Jaime has a bigger fanbase than most of the characters. certainly, people who have heard of A Song of Ice and Fire are far outnumbered by people who have read Wheel of Time, any of Salvatore’s bastardized write-ups of his weekly DnD group, or fuck, even Twilight.”
    I think people are forgetting that a lot of these series mentioned have huge sales because they have tons of books. The actual number of people who have read one or more books from these series are much closer.
    So, Salvatore has sold 30 million books. We can assume most of them are his FR books, of which he has written about 30. Taking that mathmatically into account, that’s about 1 million copies of each book sold to different people.
    A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE, OTOH, has sold about 7 million copies, which is far less, but then it’s only divided into four books, or 1.5 million copies each.
    On that basis, whilst Salvatore has sold far more books than Martin, he hasn’t necessarily got more readers and fans, and indeed could even have less.
    Obviously this is a very quick and dirty comparison and there are lots of other factors to look at. For example, Salvatore’s non-FR books could have sold a lot more than I am crediting them for, reducing his number of Drizzt readers and fans even further. This may be compensated by the fact that Salvatore’s sub-series are to some degree more independent than ASoIaF, and lots of people may have bought just the DARK ELF and ICEWIND DALE trilogies and not bothered with anything else, so he could have a lot more readers than what the quick analysis suggests.
    Still, this does suggest that the number of people who have read ASoIaF is comparable to those who have read authors like Salvatore and maybe only half that of Jordan (who by the same analysis has sold between 3 and 4 million copies of each of his books to date), rather than the massive disparities suggested above.

  67. siimen says:

    To create a world is hard work.
    I can’t blame authors who don’t want to do it again and again and again, and prefer to add stuff to existing one.

  68. jackie says:

    I love both of these characters. And I love both of these authors. GRRM is my long standing favorite. Pat Rothfuss is just an awesome guy (I mean, come on, have you read his blog? You should.)
    Kvothe FTW. Cuz, if they were to really fight, that’s where my money would really go.

  69. Rhappie says:

    Martin is an excellent writer, but Jaime is … not a nice guy. I don’t like Jaime. Kvothe isn’t some egomaniac who throws children out windows to save his own incestuous anonymity. Kvothe hugged Aslan. Kvothe gets my vote.

  70. Amen-Ra says:

    If Kvothe is trying to use sympathy he will get sliced to ribbons. He better start naming things and quick or he is dead.

  71. DustyBottles says:

    +++ GCU God Made Me DO It +++
    Tight Trans System Beam to
    +++ GSV Just Read The Instructions +++
    Hey JR. Picked up some odd transmissions from the Suvudu System .. celestial galactic body VST 23698Alpha 3rdArm Quad 6739.
    Seems there are some prolific transmissions that could be signs of hyper intelligent life. It does appear that there have been casualties in the system.
    I REALLY want to see what the Battle of Jaime and Kvothe is all about. The transmissions are like nothing I’ve seen before!
    Worth asking the SleeperService to pop by and store/resurrect the lost ones? Could be useful for future amalysis? We haven’t really explored 23698 and looks like it’s on fire!
    V exited! Please say yes!
    Might want to pass this to the Steely Glint as well.
    +++ Message End +++

  72. amen-ra says:

    Dude. You got to start from somewhere. A game of thrones was an excellent book, all by itself. The story was excellent and had people running back for more. THe Name of the Wind is a good book and I will read the sequal as soon as it comes out. Kvothe is a very interesting character. However I will admit to you that I think a lot of the praise for the “series” is overrated. the 1st book is good. Pleasantly supprising and a nice change from the normal epic fantasy. It is not however as good as some people make it out to be. On a scale of 1-10 The Name of the Wind is a 8.5. Mainly do to originality, readability and promise of things to come( the later being important in any series). A Game of thrones was a 9.5 on the same scale. mainly because of excellent plot and character development, and even more promise of things to come.

  73. Gengis says:


  74. DustyBottles says:

    +++ GCU God Made Me DO It +++
    Tight Trans System Beam to
    +++ GSV Just Read The Instructions +++
    Update! Apparently one of the Captains hugged a God in the celestial form of a lion (Sol Archive 513b . . Quadraped Mammal Pedators) and met a truce. The other Captain threw it’s own spawn from a great height to hide something! GreyArea would love this! A whole deck he could dedicate to this saga. That’s if interested of course.
    +++ Message End +++

  75. Elmarby says:

    In a sword fight, having top of the line plate armour gives Jaime all the advantage he needs.
    Clumsy with his off hand or not, he has more experience and needs to land just one blow.
    As for the magical aspect, given even a semi decent reason for why magic could fail, I’ll side with the non magic user every single time. Magic is practically cheating, IMHO.

  76. Amen-Ra says:

    I don’t see how you can say that Kvothe should win. 1st of all If you took into account the actual abilities of the characters, the only one who would still be standing is Rand. The other 3 would have lost in earlier rounds. Secondly, Kvothe did underestimate Ambrose. He admitted that this was the case in the book. Third, If Kvothe was foolish enough to fight an armored Jamie Lanister in dual with swords then he is likely to loose. I am ignoring the missing hand thing because that was an obvious attempt to sabotage the competition. Notice they did not say that Kvothe could not use sympathy. Why cant Jamie have his hand for the tournament. If Kvothe was foolish enough to fight Jamie with a sword then he should die. Finaly, I am not all that certain as to what it is Kvothe is capable of doing anyway. His entrance into this tournament is premature for that reason. I know Jamie. What he can do is a known quanitity. He slices and dices. He does so with ferocity and efficiency that has not been seen since the Sword of the Morning, or maybe since the mountain that rides, or maybe the hound, ok ok. Maybe the knight of flowers. Well, whatever you know what I mean. He is one of the best Swords in the 7 kingdoms of Westeroes.

  77. Amen-Ra says:

    I don’t see how you can say that Kvothe should win. 1st of all If you took into account the actual abilities of the characters, the only one who would still be standing is Rand. The other 3 would have lost in earlier rounds. Secondly, Kvothe did underestimate Ambrose. He admitted that this was the case in the book. Third, If Kvothe was foolish enough to fight an armored Jamie Lanister in dual with swords then he is likely to loose. I am ignoring the missing hand thing because that was an obvious attempt to sabotage the competition. Notice they did not say that Kvothe could not use sympathy. Why cant Jamie have his hand for the tournament. If Kvothe was foolish enough to fight Jamie with a sword then he should die. Finaly, I am not all that certain as to what it is Kvothe is capable of doing anyway. His entrance into this tournament is premature for that reason. I know Jamie. What he can do is a known quanitity. He slices and dices. He does so with ferocity and efficiency that has not been seen since the Sword of the Morning, or maybe since the mountain that rides, or maybe the hound, ok ok. Maybe the knight of flowers. Well, whatever you know what I mean. He is one of the best Swords in the 7 kingdoms of Westeroes.

  78. Amen-Ra says:

    Jamie would kick Adem’s behind. You want to stop Jamie you better get the head of the chandrain.

  79. philip says:

    are these the 2 authors that are taking FOREVER to print their next books? oh well, Kvothe wins by a long shot.

  80. brian kemp says:

    What it all boils down to me is which is the better character, and for me, Jaime Lannister is one of the best characters I’ve read. Missing hand or no, the guy is a fascinating character, so he’ll get my vote, every time.

  81. DustyBottles says:

    +++ GCU God Made Me DO It +++
    Could I uploa…err learn your tale? For I also am a bard. ‘Tis a beautiful rendition of the current strife and will surely pass into folklore where it will be sung from HallowFell to Storm’s End and to Masaq Orbital . . err Masaq Creek Westeros.
    We very much applaud your Ballad of Jamie and Kvothe. May your lute stay tuned and your fire be ever fuelled!
    A simple bard on the hyperwa .. highways.

  82. frantiforce says:

    consider me served. The basis for that argument is, admittedly, all personal. Until I get a hold of them, few of my friends – even fantasy readers – had heard of or were interested in Ice and Fire, but the vast majority of them were fans of/had read either Wheel of Time or a Drizzt book.
    I do think, however, that even if the fanbases are perfectly even, there are more GRRM fans trolling fantasy message boards than many of the other books, simply because GRRM inspires lot more actual fandom than many other writers. If I saw Epic Beard Man on a bus reading Drizzt I probably wouldn’t want to talk to him. If I saw him reading AGOT, however… I could take a punch to the face.

  83. Jason says:

    I’m horribly saddened that every single story involving Kvothe seems to have hinged on “true name magic” – something that we’ve only seen him use once in the (rather large) book published about him… on the Wind. Hence the title. There are legends about his fighting training, the book highlights how cunning and lucky he is, there’s deep discussion of his use of sympathy… but you guys really seem to treat him as a one-trick-pony, then set him up to lose because you don’t like the trick.

  84. archon says:

    True… but there are not ‘Cinderellas”, including (especially) Butler, who are ‘Cinderella’ enough to acurately represent the gap between left-handed Jaime, and say, Ctuthulu, when it comes to a simple matter of power… that why you have to consider popularity or anyone who is not of demi-god power or better has no buisness being in the tournament

  85. Mark says:

    Jaime V Rand in the finals? The character from a dead auther who still produces books or the Character from a live author who doesnt??? HUMMM im conflicted. Please George RR just dont kill any more Starks. And for the record Arya stark sticks it to Jaime after his win “with the pointy end” for the Win.

  86. Matt says:

    I understand that fan’s of a series will vote with loyalty toward their character or author but will someone explain to me how Jamie Lannister has a fan base? Martin’s transition in directing the story away from the Starks and toward other characters (especially Jamie and Cercei) has nearly made me give up on this series…

  87. lakesidey says:

    Male, and single even. But I’m a maths teacher and an ogre (big, green, stupid and ugly. OK, maybe not green) in my spare time 😉
    +++ GSV Grey Area +++
    Tight Trans System Beam to
    +++ GCU God Made Me DO It +++
    What makes you think I would love this? I play around with the minds of people (and yes I’m aware of _that_ nickname); practically everyone left alive in this arena is mad already. No fun. Plus an Excess(ion) of fanboys, who evidently have no Culture whatsoever. Might as well attend a Homomdan conclave!
    +++ Message End +++
    Glad y’all liked the verse! *bows*

  88. Matt says:

    Go read it and you’ll understand

  89. Elis says:

    Really? That is too bad and am sorry to hear it. I find all the characters fascinating, not just the Starks. From the beginning I loathed — but was interested in — the Lannister twins. When they started to get POV chapters and we got to know a little more about Jaime, that’s when he stopped being a character I disliked to being one of my favorites. Someone else here said it better, but at some point Jaime became three dimensional, real, totally flawed and imperfect.

  90. Furrymoose says:

    Alright. 4 valid points. The first one: Rand may very well be the last one standing. Odds are, he will. He can destroy pretty much anything and anyone. That’s pretty powerful. But Kvothe has a decent amount of power that may be able to counter that. Jaime has a sword. The second: Kvothe was very much aware of Ambrose’s influence on people because he was royalty. Even though Ambrose may have had a few tricks up his sleeve, like getting Kvothe kicked out of the inns, Kvothe still found a way to deal with it and pulled through in the end. The third (and fourth): This is going off of Kvothe in the story that he is telling. The younger Kvothe. Sure, the book is framed with the older Kvothe telling the story, but probably 85% of it is about the younger Kvothe. He is what the book is about. I will say, though, that we have no idea what this younger Kvothe is capable of sword-wise. It really wouldn’t be smart for him to go up against Jaime in hand-to-hand combat. Heck, he doesn’t even have a sword at this point. But Suvudu seems to be going off of an older version than is shown in the Name of the Wind. A future (yet past) version of Kvothe that is formed by interpolation. What will most likely be the Kvothe used in either the Wise Man’s Fear or the Doors of Stone that they have formed by combining both the younger and older versions. However, if you want to use a different Kvothe, or the one used in the Name of the Wind, then you have to give him either Sympathy and some skill at Naming or his skill with the sword, both of which have a chance of beating Jaime. (Sympathy and Naming would almost certainly beat him. “Kvothe calls down the name of the wind and it beats Jaime to the ground. He then takes Jaime’s sword and lops of his head with it.”) But since we aren’t completely sure of Kvothe’s powers, Suvudu has used what will almost certainly be Kvothe in the future (or past).

  91. marianthi says:

    As a fan of both, this is a tough one. I was kinda hoping for both authors to write a blurb while knowing it was probably too good to be true but oh well…
    For this fight though, I would have to vote for Kvothe, because he was able to kill those spider things with just an iron bar whereas Jaime, as of AFFC, has not learned to fight with his left hand yet. I think he eventually will, as a competitive fencer who injured my dominant hand, I have experience with how difficult it is to switch hands but it is possible…however he has not managed it yet so I vote Kvothe.

  92. sevvack says:

    my bet for who wins the whole tournament despite being horrible undeserving and far less powerful then most of his opponents. Jaime,kvothe is far stronger then jaime even if he cant use jaimes true name, rand is also far stronger but my bet is that jaime will beat him too because hes just that popular.

  93. iwtblj says:

    For everyone saying that Kvothe should win because he’s more powerful, Kvothe beat Aslan and Jamie beat Cthulu. “More powerful” has nothing to do with it. Also, people keep saying that Kvothe would just use someone’s name. Unless I’m forgetting something, we’ve never seen any evidence that people have true names in Rothfuss’ universe. IIRC, the only names we’ve seen either used or referred to are fire, wind, and iron. That being said, Ged vs Kvothe might’ve been interesting to see.

  94. Matt says:

    I feel that Martin writes brilliantly and he truly developes characters from book to book (maybe none more than Jamie). While I can sympathize with Jamie’s character even when offered a more in depths perspective into his thoughts he remains a character i don’t find compelled to read about… especially when he has the characters I fell love with the series: the Starks… or whats left of them I guess…

  95. solicemoon says:

    You know i was going to go with Kvothe here but how you guys thought the fight was going to go is just too awesome. GO JAIME!

  96. Amen-Ra says:

    Ok, I think I got what you just said…. but who can say for sure. I doubt that Kvothe past present or future or even his ghost could beat a fully armored Jamie sword to sword, but why would he even try. He would use his ability to name things then take Jamie down. call upon the name of the wind, to buffet jamie with harricane force winds. call upon the name of fire to roast jamie in his armor. That sort of thing. If you assume that he has the capability to do those things. The Sympathy would be useless against Jamie because he would need time to prepare it and Jamie will not give him that. BUt all magic has its weakness. You just need to know where to look. THe problem with Kvothe is you never get to explore any of these weaknesses because you can only guess at his strengths. Its obvious that Kvothe the boy would be killed by Jamie but Kvothe the man supposedly is a heavy hitter that Jamie stands no chance against because of his naming ability. Trouble is, they don’t explain any of that stuff or how it works, so you don’t know what the limitations are. You are asking me to concede strengths that have only been hinted at, but to ignore weaknesses that are almost certainly there. Why did he not use the naming ability on the Scrale. What held him back. Could Valarian steele inhibit him in some way. Trouble is Kvothe is an unknown quantity.

  97. Illarion says:

    Come on guys and gals. I love GRRM as much as any man alive, but one handed Jaime simply isn’t even close to being a match for Kvothe (or indeed any serious swordsman).
    Naming aside, Sympathy aside – Kvothe is just, hands down, a far better fighter.
    Jaime at his peak, with both hands – that would have been an awesome, close fight. But this Jaime? No contest.

  98. archon says:

    Novel post man… I wonder why nobody has ever mentioned that point yet? Or countered it for that matter? 😉

  99. Durwen says:

    I voted for Jaime.
    My problem with Kvothe is that, although we’re told time and again how brilliant and smart he is, it’s more an informed ability than anything else. Yes, from time to time we’re told how academically intelligent he is in a controlled environment, but somehow he always ends up doing something unbelievably stupid… time and again. That’s something I really don’t like about Rothfuss’s novel. If you want me to believe your character is smart, don’t tell me. Show me.
    And if the Naming truly has anything to do with self identity, Kvothe doesn’t hold a candle to Jaime. The poor bastard’s psyche is a mess since he lost his hand.

  100. archon says:

    Meh… the Starks got what they deserved… Let’s break it down…
    Ned; Hopeless… just hopeless. How do you get duped by a guy who you know is shady, and flat out TOLD YOU TO YOUR FACE not to trust him? Also, any kudos he got for his honor went out the window when he sacrificed his unyielding sense of duty for his daughter… I know, as a father, that it’s the natural thing to do… but as a ruler, when you set down and enact laws that disregard such things in the name of justice, and then suddenly repeal all of your vows about seeing justice done (hello? justice to REGICIDE at that!) when it’s YOUR child’s head on the line… you’re gettin no love from any commoner who didn’t get the luxury of mercy when their children (or friend’s children) were the ones who suffered in the name of your unyielding justice.
    Cat: Every bit the bitch that Cersei is… maybe not quite as insane, but definitely as much of a bitch… and like Cersei, not good enough to play the game at the level she was and get away with it. Deserved everything she got.
    Jon: Doing well all things considered… Lotta turmoil but no horrendously unfair threats to his life right now.
    Robb: I know it’s hard for a teenage boy… but sometimes you just GOTTA know when to keep it in your pants… Or at least deposit the result somewhere with less consequence…
    Sansa: Very fortunate to be where she is at this point considering how she’s been growing up as a prototypical piece of oxygen-stealing aristocratic fluff before reality thundered her soul.
    Arya: By far the most interesting Stark, and the one currently with the most potential… Her trials have knocked her willfulness down a notch or two, which is really all she needed…
    Bran and Rickon: Only GRRM’s imaginative writing makes these 2 small children even remotely worth reading about… otherwise they are totally non-factors who are simply lucky to be alive with parents as lame as their’s were.
    The Lannisters, love them or hate them, are by FAR the more interesting (and IMHO, deserving) family…

  101. Mitch says:

    There are always ways in which one character can beat another. This is a popularity vote and I think that’s the only way these issues can be resolved.
    That being said I’m glad that the harry potter and twlight fans didn’t catch on.
    Also they are more popular with the youngerish people (generally) while asofi and wot are targeted towards more adults, which I would think make up the greater percentage of the people using this sight.
    I want to see a write up by the two authors and that would be what’s voted on. I’m sure GRRM would at the very least. Can that be arranged?
    For all those nay sayers in a Jamie beating Rand fight, have you guys ever heard of a Steading? Surely a well read brother might point this out to Jamie and he could wait there? Or alternatively Jamie could appeal to ‘good guy’ sensibilities that Rand has, his sense of honour or toh or whatever it’s called. I could deffinatly see Rands character going along with this and Jamie being the barstard (figtively speaking) that would exploit that.
    Let’s make this fight even and what we’ve all been wanting to see.
    They’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
    Go the one armed gimp fight!

  102. Mitch says:

    There are always ways in which one character can beat another. This is a popularity vote and I think that’s the only way these issues can be resolved.
    That being said I’m glad that the harry potter and twlight fans didn’t catch on.
    Also they are more popular with the youngerish people (generally) while asofi and wot are targeted towards more adults, which I would think make up the greater percentage of the people using this sight.
    I want to see a write up by the two authors and that would be what’s voted on. I’m sure GRRM would at the very least. Can that be arranged?
    For all those nay sayers in a Jamie beating Rand fight, have you guys ever heard of a Steading? Surely a well read brother might point this out to Jamie and he could wait there? Or alternatively Jamie could appeal to ‘good guy’ sensibilities that Rand has, his sense of honour or toh or whatever it’s called. I could deffinatly see Rands character going along with this and Jamie being the barstard (figtively speaking) that would exploit that.
    Let’s make this fight even and what we’ve all been wanting to see.
    They’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
    Go the one armed gimp fight!

  103. Jason says:

    I will never vote for a character whose name I can’t pronounce. Jamie is a real ASS, but I can’t see him losing to a “Kvothe”….whatever that may be…..

  104. Mitch says:

    Or for all the gold is castly rock, surely the male equivilent of Mat’s medilian can be found/purchased of foxs.
    Or a couple of Chaneller (seachan?) can cut him of the source, even if he’s chaneling if the group is big enough. And let’s face it, if anyone can afford it then it’s Jamie…

  105. Rick says:

    I voted for Jaime again mostly just because I really like his character. This competition will always be nothing more than a personality contest simply because suvudu didn’t pick balanced characters from the various books. If all the characters had been warriors, or they all had access to magic, or they were all gods then yes you could argue the merits of one versus the other. However the fact that they aren’t makes it purely popularity or we should from word go have just accepted an aslan versus cthulu final.
    Also as MRtaylor said above the whole reason behind Jaime being so interesting is that he is mortal and because of the way GRRM writes your never sure how long a character will last. When you hear about how amazing Jaime is in one chapter and then straight after he gets slapped down in the whispering wood your always guessing. I dont mind reading the odd tale about an unstoppable god like character but not when it comes in a very long series (think rand). The truely hardcore powers are always best when they are held back by something else imo, Kylar stern for example is immortal and better at fighting than others due to training. But even with the Black Kakaris powers he is limited by his compassion because if he fucks up everyone he loves will die over time.
    Gotta agree with you about Ned and cat, they were both well diserving of death. Robb was a really good character and it was great how GRRM built him up to be a perfect candidate for the throne then just massacres him for his own folly. Sansa tended to bore me for the most part of the first 4 books as she was all about song and stories and fucking “true knights”. However the cross over bits including the hound were great and now she is becoming littlefingers apprentice she will get alot more interesting. Arya has alwyas been the best stark and I really cant wait till she finishes her training and returns to westeros as a faceless (wo)man. Bran and rickon are still good imo, rickon is saved by shaggydog. As for bran I like the company he is with now and I think the reeds have the potential become even more interesting characters in Dance. As for Jon we all know (or guess) he is only half stark and half targaryen and clearly GRRMs favourite character. Im still expecting GRRM to pull a swift one tho because people figured out his plot and make jon nothing more than a bastard after all. But gotta agree that the lannisters are way more interesting to read about, Cersai going from blunder to blunder, Jaimes character arc while he tries to regain his honour is brilliant and tyrion has always been hands down the best chapters in the book, if anyone disagrees shagga will hapilly chop of your manhood and feed it to the goats.
    As a popularity contest im pulling for Jaime in the final as I think anyone who hasn’t read a song of ice and fire yet should do and the publicity is all good.

  106. Nemo says:

    Durwen, I agree with you.
    The Name of the Wind was a good book, definitely, but its strenght was in Rothfuss’s prose, in his beautiful writing style. The characterisation, however, was lacking something. Kvothe came out as a bit of Mary Sue. All that praise and then too little to back it up.

  107. Chris says:

    As much as I like ASOIAF, it is a total fanboy-copout to say this is just a popularity contest so you’re voting for Jamie.

  108. Leah says:

    I really want Kvothe to pull this one off. Kvothe vs Rand would be a final round worth watching, and I don’t think that Kvothe would be anywhere as nice as you guys are portraying him as being.

  109. Darb07 says:

    Kvouthe calls the name of the wind and flies the one handed neanderthal into a tree that breaks his good arm. Kvouthe walks up says “asta lavista . . baby” and shoves his sword down his pie hole . . . the end.

  110. Rhappie says:

    Oh for pity’s sake, you’re not voting for ASOIF, you’re voting for JAIME LANNISTER! What’s wrong with you people!

  111. jackie says:

    I love the rhyming, don’t get me wrong. But I must object on the behalf of dear departed Robert Jordan. He’d often said that Taim is pronounced Ta-EEM, not “tame”. So it doesn’t rhyme. Sorry. That said, screw it. It’s awesome anyway.
    (but KVOTHE FTW!!!)

  112. jackie says:

    Sorry, but I have to object here Nemo.
    Kvothe a Mary Sue?? I think you need to look up the origins of Mary Sue (a parody of Trek Fanfic) and not use the term so loosely that you apply it to a character like Kvothe. In defefnse of tNotW, I have had a VERY HARD time reading it after the first time because of all the horrible stuff Kvothe goes through. Rothfuss puts a very likable character through the wringer and I’m pretty sure Wise Man’s Fear is just going to be worse for poor Kvothe.

  113. Furrymoose says:

    I dunno… from what I’ve heard Jaime without his hand isn’t nearly as strong as he used to be. Even though you don’t completely know this rhetorical Kvothe’s abilities, you either have to allow him to be a very competent swordsman or a fairly accomplished magician. Either one stands a good chance against Jaime, especially if he’s weak because of his missing hand. And there are weaknesses in the magic. You mentioned time to prepare as one of them. Sure, Kvothe can bind things on the run, like he did with the draccus, but in a hand-to-hand fight his sympathy won’t help him all that much as he needs to find a clever way to beat his opponent with it as well as pull it off. Naming would be the strength here, as it is faster and easier, but you have to know the names of things in order to use them. If you still want to use the Kvothe in the book, he only knows the name of the wind. However, even that could win a fight as it did with Ambrose.

  114. jackie says:

    And for all those folks who don’t know where Mary Sue comes from (Nemo, this seems to be you): It’s from Paula Smith’s “A Trekkie’s Tale”, It appeared in 1974, in “the Menagerie”.
    Full text:
    By Paula Smith
    “Gee, golly, gosh, gloriosky,” thought Mary Sue as she stepped on the bridge of the Enterprise. “Here I am, the youngest lieutenant in the fleet – only fifteen and a half years old.” Captain Kirk came up to her.
    “Oh, Lieutenant, I love you madly. Will you come to bed with me?”
    “Captain! I am not that kind of girl!”
    “You’re right, and I respect you for it. Here, take over the ship for a minute while I go get some coffee for us.”
    Mr. Spock came onto the bridge. “What are you doing in the command seat, Lieutenant?”
    “The Captain told me to.”
    “Flawlessly logical. I admire your mind.”
    Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy and Mr. Scott beamed down with Lt. Mary Sue to Rigel XXXVII. They were attacked by green androids and thrown into prison. In a moment of weakness Lt. Mary Sue revealed to Mr. Spock that she too was half Vulcan. Recovering quickly, she sprung the lock with her hairpin and they all got away back to the ship.
    But back on board, Dr. McCoy and Lt. Mary Sue found out that the men who had beamed down were seriously stricken by the jumping cold robbies , Mary Sue less so. While the four officers languished in Sick Bay, Lt. Mary Sue ran the ship, and ran it so well she received the Nobel Peace Prize, the Vulcan Order of Gallantry and the Tralfamadorian Order of Good Guyhood.
    However the disease finally got to her and she fell fatally ill. In the Sick Bay as she breathed her last, she was surrounded by Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy, and Mr. Scott, all weeping unashamedly at the loss of her beautiful youth and youthful beauty, intelligence, capability and all around niceness. Even to this day her birthday is a national holiday of the Enterprise.

  115. D Adams says:

    PAT ROTHFUSS & GEORGE RR MARTIN ARE IN FACT THE SAME PERSON…(just look at the beard, it’s a dead giveaway)
    Which is why you won’t see a writeup from the authors on this one. In the year 2029, George finally finishes the 6th book in the ASOIAF series, and receives payment in the amount of $1 Billion from his publishers. Unfortunately at this time George is of an age that he well knows he cannot possibly spend all of the money in his lifetime.
    So he hires a group of senior physicist fan-boys (who ironically are just grad students voting on this match today) to build him a time machine. It takes all of his money and only 6 years to build (in which time George is able to complete the final Dunk & Egg novella where Egg reaches puberty). Upon completion the fan boys wheel George into the chamber, and flip the switch.
    And suddenly the year is 2006. George is miraculously decades younger, but his beard has retained it’s near centurion look…
    His writing has also been rejuvenated, and he tells himself that after a (former) lifetime of missed schedules and blown deadlines, he now knows how to write a story without wedging himself into impossible corners. So he releases NOTW under the pseudonym Pat Rothfuss, and announces that his trilogy will be complete by 2010…
    Back in 2029 the fan-boy physicists discover that the incredible King Killer Chronicles series (which is at that time projected to be 8 books in length, of which 3 are finally published) is in fact George’s work, and history is destined to repeat itself with the blown deadlines.
    So they travel back as a group to the year 2012, visit ComiCon, and kidnap George and the rejuvenated George doubling as Pat, shaving both of their beards, which of course causes the universe to implode and all life as we know it ends. The Mayans predicted it all.

  116. Ailvara says:

    I voted for Jaime. But, no matter how great he could become with his left hand, a fight with Drizzt can be very interesting.

  117. Furrymoose says:

    He won’t fight Drizzt. He’ll end up fighting Rand since almost no one is able to stand up against the might of Balefire. Definitely not Drizzt. Definitely not Jaime.

  118. Gregor says:

    I agree with you on all of that. Apart from Ned. I liked Ned =[

  119. Gregor says:

    That may be the ORIGIN of the term, but its far from what it means now…
    TV Tropes describes Mary Sue as – “an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She’s exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She’s exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting.”
    Take out female, and fanfic, and you have Kvothe.

  120. Kemm says:

    No, I haven’t read it. I think it hasn’t even made it to my country (don’t know, I have to check it) but, after reading the scripts of his previous matches and fixing some of the flaws (the only way there aren’t would have been if the scripts were done directly by Rothfuss and the other writer, impossible in Aslan vs. Kvothe among other matches) I kinda wanted to read it. It seems to have the elements to a relly good story that I rarely find (ASoIaF, WoT, LotR and the Belgariad are some of them).

  121. leftfootofjustice says:

    can i just say that “name magic” is freakin gay? ooo i know your name that means i control you. no that just means you know who to beg as you get your ass kicked. i’m fine for name magic being used to control demons and the like, mxyzptilik or whoever, but against humans? weak. cop out. its just as bad as balefire. so go jamie. beat his smarty mcknowsaname wizard ass.

  122. jackie says:

    Yes, I know the difference between Mary Sue’s origin and the common usage of the term. My point in posting the origin is to show the original context and thereby highlight the absurdity of the comparison to a well-written fully-fledged multi-faceted character.
    Most main characters/heroes are exceptional in one way or another, and they’re usually beautiful. They also have a general habit of winning and being, you know, the hero of the story. It’s kind of what being a hero is all about. And unique names are something of a fantasy genre staple, come on.
    As for being multi-talented, or “exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting” there’s nothing that Kvothe can do that is not explained or well in keeping with the character and the world. Yes, Kvothe’s a genius, but genius can and does happen.
    ‘Mary Sue’s are clearly self-insertions of the author living out a fantasy. I’m pretty sure Pat Rothfuss doesn’t have ill will toward his parents, or particularly want to be beaten or whipped. He’s not Terry Goodkind or anything; speaking of Mary Sue. Richard Rahl in Wizard’s 1st Rule – now THAT is a Mary Sue! There’s just no comparison.
    Perhaps Pat Rothfuss has a fantasy of being a talented lutanist. I could almost see that one. Maybe.
    The point is, just because you don’t like the book or feel like maybe the character has too much power, that does not a Mary Sue make. It’s self-insertionism that does it, and Pat Rothfuss simply didn’t do that with Kvothe.

  123. jackie says:

    You should try reading the book, and not just go with the good folk of suvudu’s match write-ups.
    Rothfuss didn’t even really show us ‘name-magic’ in NotW, except peripherally. Sympathy, more standard magic, was much more in evidence, and I’m pretty sure Kvothe could use that to great effect against Jaime without even needing to resort to Names.
    Not that Jaime might not do some damage. I do have a lot of love for the bad boy of Lannister.

  124. lakesidey says:

    Oops, yes. My bad!
    Maybe I ought to replace it with
    “and his black-veiled Aiel dame”…? 🙂

  125. DiapDealer says:

    “It’s self-insertionism that does it, and Pat Rothfuss simply didn’t do that with Kvothe.”
    I should hope not! Self-insertionism sounds incredibly painful. 😉

  126. jackie says:

    Nice fix! I stand in awe of your rhyming skills. 🙂

  127. jackie says:

    Heh. It does sound kind of painful and anatomically improbable doesn’t it? Whoops.

  128. Furrymoose says:

    @ leftfootofjustice
    In the actual book, naming someone out of existance never happens. You can only name objects and things, like stone or the wind. And once you name these things you can control of them. They never go out of existance. I really don’t know where Suvudu got the whole “true name” thing, but they changed Kvothe completely, giving him new powers and taking away the old. It’s almost a completely different Kvothe.
    @ Gregor
    I believe there is an interview in which Rothfuss was asked if he saw himself as Kvothe. He answered saying that he did not. I don’t know why you would think Kvothe was just a fictional version of Pat. As jackie stated, most heroes do have quite a few powers.

  129. AHEM says:

    Kvothe all the way.
    Kvothe is not only advantaged in magic, but in combat. Jaime would undoubtedly have the advantage if he was fighting at his peak, but Ser Goldenhand lost nearly all of his ability with the loss of his hand, and has yet to regain anywhere near his combat potential with his left. Even if he could, having only one hand would leave him at a disadvantage against a swordsman with two. In fact, after returning to King’s Landing Jaime claimed that he was no longer any more deadly in a fight than a dwarf.
    Go Kvothe!

  130. Specter says:

    Kvothe never struck me as a Mary Sue. It’s been said that he makes mistakes . . . huge mistakes. And he does.
    Would it be nice to be a perfect liar? To know how to play the lute? To be a gifted magician? To know the Name of the Wind? To be a genius? I don’t doubt it.
    To live like a rat in Tarbean for three years? To be constantly on the brink of losing what little you own?
    Depending on your definition, a Mary Sue is either a self-insert or a ‘perfect’ character. A boring invincible hero with no flaws.
    Kvothe is a thief and an eavesdropper. He sneaks into places he’s not supposed to, he frightened an innkeeper into letting him go with some showy sympathy and threatened to burn his inn down and dance in the ashes of his burnt, sticky bones.
    Honestly, I’d be more offended by the write-up if I wasn’t snickering. Kvothe? Give someone a sporting chance . . . ?
    Really now.

  131. frantiforce says:

    Agreed 100%, Specter.
    I tried to post something largely the same earlier, but suvudufail. The only thing I’d add is that, even though he’s constantly “telling” about his genius, we DO see it. He masters sympathy like whoa, he takes it on himself to move way ahead of his artificiery peers and masters that even faster, and in his first fucking year he consistently outperforms, at least academically, men who’ve been there for several years. The guy’s a savant, but that doesn’t mean that he CAN’T make mistakes or that he’s a Mary-Sue.

  132. Shanidar says:

    Damn, my heart is divided…
    Jaime Lannister. Though one-handed he’s more experienced and I guess he should know a couple of tricks.

  133. Gregor says:

    Hey, dont get me wrong, I LOVED NotW. Pat’s writing is simply amazing, and I could read his stuff no matter whos the star. Also, Kvothe is a really cool character, one of my favourites in the genre. He’s still a Mary Sue though…
    @Furrymoose: I seem to remember Rothfuss mentioning Kvothe was his old Dungeons and Dragons character. Having never played the game myself, I dont know too much, but isnt the idea you make a character to represent yourself in the game?

  134. Erin Jump says:

    Wait for it…. Pat is writing the fight up the way he sees it as we speak…
    He said it will be up in a couple hours!

  135. DiapDealer says:

    “Wait for it…. Pat is writing the fight up the way he sees it as we speak…”
    I don’t believe you.
    But if you are right–I bet he punts. 😉

  136. Rhappie says:

    lol he really is, hope it’s up tonight 🙂

  137. Cmdrchristof says:

    People keep forgetting about “Road to Levinshir” which is a published story of Kvothe… seriously read that and then decide whether you think he would loose to Jamie. I’ve read both series and am a fan of both, but I think that Kvothe is just much more skilled.

  138. frantiforce says:

    First, please show me where it said that Kvothe was a DnD character. Second, even if he was, the storytelling requirements of running/playing a DnD game are completely different than telling a story in th form of a novel. There’s overlap, yes, but not enough to declare Kvothe a mary sue because of it. Third, who the fuck says a DnD character is representative of you in a game? You play whatever the dick you want to play, that’s why it’s “Role-Playing” not “Representing Yourself In a Fantasy Setting: With Friends.” Fuck me, if I was forced to play as the same character in every tabletop RP I’d never play. So no, “representing yourself in the game” is not the idea of DnD.
    I’d believe Kvothe was a Mary Sue if Pat Rothfuss was a gifted musician, or if he was a mega-genius who graduated college at 15 and journeyed the world as a demon-slayer, all the while distilling rumors of his exploits into Legends, ensuring his legacy would live on beyond him. Not all competent, distinctive, talented and charismatic characters are Mary Sues, Gregor. Sometimes a writer is -zomg – not an attention-starved egomaniac.

  139. Mike says:

    If Kvothe beat the weapons master Garet Jax, he certainly takes Ser Jaime, who last time I checked, the Brienne of Tarth fought him to a standstill. While I still think that the naming power of Kvothe is being vastly overstated (where did this notion of naming out of existence come from, certainly not The Name of the Wind), if Jaime wins then this whole contest has been nothing more than a St. Elsewhere fakeout, where this whole shindig has been nothing more than an in-depth fever dream Jaime has suffered shortly after his hand was removed.

  140. Ac Hela says:

    U know? I think they got the “real name” from the Eragon series… because there they use some kind of magic that also involves names… but the “true names” are the ones in some sort of ancient language and they permit the namer to control the person… or so i think… :S
    And im a 100% Kvothe Fan by the way… xD

  141. Atreus says:

    Hmmmm…. the one problem I have had with the write-ups has been how they have handled Kvothe as a “namer”. I feel like it is being treated as a much simpler and less subtle beast than it really is. And, truth to tell, not much is even known about Naming in general – Rothfuss hasn’t really gotten too deep into that part in his story. Still, what has been said was much more complicated then “here is this guy’s name on a page” – it is instead something known and understood from deep within ones subconscious. Besides, it is explained that names (such as the name of the wind) can be changing constantly. So, in the end, I think it is more from *where* in your mind you are speaking from than what is actually said. Could be wrong on that, though – looking forward to Pat setting that straight.
    Also, Kvothe may be famous for being a “kingkiller”, but that is far from all he is. He is a man who, to save a woman he loved, fought and killed an angel – a fricken ANGEL. If that does not put him well and firm into the “heavyweight” category, I don’t know what will. More than the angel, it seems pretty clear that at some point he goes toe-to-toe with seven batshit-insane demons (seriously, the Chandrian are up there in the “evil forces of nature” category) – and though we don’t know the total outcome of the fight, it is clear that he at least survived.
    Then again, if this showdown occurs after he runs away to open the tavern it is quite possible that he would in fact lose. Being so melancholy, depressed and, for all purposes, without sympathy or magic. In which situation, Kvothe might let Jaime kill him out of pure depression. After all, he is just a man waiting to die.

  142. jackie says:

    OK Gregor…if you love the writing and book, but still think Kvothe is a Mary Sue, I’ll have to go with (spanish accent) “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
    Where I hail from, calling a character a Mary Sue is a pretty deadly insult to the writer and the novel both…

  143. Ac Hela says:

    that was a sad thing to say… sad but true… at least as far as we know he’s only waiting for that… 🙁

  144. Gregor says:

    Slobbering fanboys make my nose itch, go away.

  145. Can says:

    “People keep forgetting about “Road to Levinshir” which is a published story of Kvothe… seriously read that and then decide whether you think he would loose to Jamie. I’ve read both series and am a fan of both, but I think that Kvothe is just much more skilled.”
    Can you please tell me, as detailed as possible, exactly what the story’s about?
    Exactly what happens? Exactly how Kvothe is portrayed?
    The book isn’t that has the excerpt isn’t at my local library or school library nor can I find the excerpt anywhere on the internet and I’m just starving for more Kvothe.

  146. frantiforce says:

    ah, right, because explaining DnD to someone who’s never played is rampant fanboyism. Uh huh. Rampant!

  147. DiapDealer says:

    Mary Sue
    Mary Sue
    Mary Sue
    Mary Sue
    Ummm… could somebody give the HiFi a bit of a prod?
    I think the needle’s stuck on the record again.
    Fanboy – The comment section’s equivalent to balefire.
    As in: “If this guy pisses me off one more time… I’m going to open up a can of fanboy on his ass!”
    To which the proper response (of course) is: “Oh yeah? You do and I’m gonna Mary Sue your precious !”
    Just some downright scintillating repartees going on here.
    Next year, let’s just have the “Suvudu Mary Sue and Fanboy Show 2011.”

  148. Starhammer says:

    FYI everyone Rothfuss is doing a write up for this match =)
    It’s predicted that George may have one ready in about 5 years =P

  149. Stenenis says:

    where did you get this information? i really want Pat to, don’t get me wrong, but how did you find this out?

  150. jackie says:

    Uh, Sorry? I don’t mean to be lame, if that was aimed at me… I just hate seeing either of these characters or authors disparaged.

  151. jackie says:

    Pat wrote it on Facebook:
    Patrick Rothfuss: Okay, okay. Since everyon’s asking, I’ll do a Kvothe vs. Jamie write up for the Suvudu cage match. It’ll take a couple hours though. Be patient.
    5 hours ago · Comment · Like

  152. frantiforce says:

    social networking ftw

  153. DiapDealer says:

    “I don’t mean to be lame, if that was aimed at me”
    @ jackie: No, not aimed at you at all. But rather at those who think they have the right to call anyone a Fanboy… and those that believe they have the skills to properly identify a Mary Sue.

  154. Raamiah says:

    First of all, to all of you who say that Jaime is a better, more realistic, or easier to relate to character: being rather smart myself (there is no modest why to say that over the internet :/ ), I like characters like Kvothe, Bean, and John Galt… I relate to geniuses thrown into tragic circumstances. You relate to a hot guy who f***s his own sister?!?! need I say more.
    @Ac Hela: Yes the naming is similar to what is in Eragon, but it predates either of these books. If you think about it, it is rather epic, really; you understand something so well that you can define it without a true language, you can convey what it is with primeval sounds. And then, knowing it so well, you can control it
    @iwtblj and others: we have seen namers naming people: Haliax names Cinder (at the scene after Kvothe’s parent’s deaths) when he does not seem to be conforming to Haliax’s will, causing him extreme pain. Selitos names Lanre as punishment after he destroyed Myr Tariniel, turing him into the sort of thing associated with the Chandrian.
    But naming does seem to be more intense than Suvudu makes it out to be. Kvothe was terrorized when the name of the wind came to him, and it’s implied to be difficult when Kelvin says that Elodin is the only one he in the Arcanium trusts has the surest grasp of the name of fire.
    @Erin Jump: REALLY?!?! how do you know Rothfuss is sending in a scenario? there aren’t any updates on his blog..
    @D Adams: You nearly got it right; it takes at least three of the same people existing simultaneously to cause an apocalypse. But he is also disguised as my high school philosophy teacher, so we are still doomed!
    @Specter: Seconded. Kvothe is not noble. He is not chivalrous. Honor is just one more thing he can use to manipulate a proud man. Never in a million years would he give up an advantage to make a fight more fair.
    @Everyone-who-said-Jaime-is-going-to-win: You are absolutely right! ASoIaF seems to be a great series of which I have only read the first book (though I absolutely despise Jaime) and has an enormous amount of fans. You will have to forgive me for being bitter, though, it is just because I grow weary of this dialogue:
    “Whatcha reading?”
    “Only the best book ever, though you have never heard of it”
    “Cool, what’s it called?’
    “The Name of the Wind. If you want to read it, there is a copy that is never checked out in the library”
    “Oh, screw the library, never mind.”
    @Can: I wish I could read “Road to Levinshir” too, but all I can find out about it is that it was part of a limited addition set of short stories by numerous authors…

  155. Rebecca Simms says:

    Does anyone else think it’s going to be really funny when Rand and Jamie go up against each other? “I know something you don’t know… I’m am not left handed!” Ha!

  156. Atreus says:

    Valid points, all. And about Rothfuss writing something up, he announced it via Facebook.
    I think most everyone on this board who has read both series… Hell, I imagine that anyone at all rationally understands that a one-handed swordsman would have no chance against a god, a dragon, or a… whatever you quantify Kvothe as. But, this pretty much comes down to a fan showdown – and while Rothfuss, in my mind, has the better book, Martin has had the books published longer. And thus, has an older, more established fanbase. Can’t really see Kvothe pulling through in this one.
    Still, its fun.

  157. Bremon says:

    I am waiting anxiously for rothfuss’ write-up…but while doing so, i have been reading the comments…
    okay. so i have not read GRRM…i realize that this may be an unforgiveable sin, as it appears that many of the occupants here have…but i am NOT going to start making fun of him or insulting him simply because i don’t like the fact that…i don’t know…he doesn’t have both hands. instead…since i doubt i have enough time between today and april second to read all of the lannister books out there, i’m reading the comments so i don’t say something offensive about a character someone else may happen to like.
    also…i’m fairly sure that the emphasis on naming is just a *little* overdone on this…which is why i’m glad patrick is doing a write-up…presumably everyone saw the write-up versus aslan…
    i voted for Kvothe, by the way
    (but…wouldn’t it be great to see Vanyel Ashkevron from Mercedes Lackey’s Last Herald Mage series here?)

  158. scott says:

    Greatest. Movie. Ever. Though I have a feeling that both of those guys will be able to determine with relative ease the other’s handedness. Besides, they won’t have time to discuss it: the only dialog in that match is going to be “Balefire, bitches!” according the the fanboys. Which, incidentally, is one of my new favorite mini-memes.

  159. Veelana says:

    @ Raamiah: Don’t get me wrong, I love Bean! But please reserve judgement on Jaime until you’ve read the third book – He becomes so much more than a hot guy fucking his sister…
    @all Kvothe fans: I have not read “The Name od the Wind” (in fact, I had not heard about it until now), but to me, after reading all the comments, Kvothe sounds like a bit of a boring character. Pretty? check. He’s a genious? check. Best swordfighter? check. Troubled youth? check. To me, these are classic markings of a mary sue. Please, please tell me he’s not! I really need something new to read (and you all mentioned the prose to be excellent!) – and reading GRRM has ruined me for fantasy that’s not well written (reading eragon right now – hating the characterizations and above all the language) just as Red Mars did for Science fiction…

  160. Atreus says:

    Hahaha, believe me, he is not a Mary Sue. Pick up the book, and make sure that you plan an afternoon to yourself. Believe you me, you can’t put the book down.
    Seriously, give it a shot, read until page 50, and see if you can’t stop. I like GRRM’s books, but Patrick Rothfuss writes much, much more smooth.

  161. Furrymoose says:

    Yup. That pretty much sums up the finals right there the way things are going- Balefire! Which is kinda disappointing. All this buildup for a final match summarized by one word.

  162. Atreus says:

    And by the way – just put Eragon down. Seriously. There is nothing about that book which is worth even considering literature. He wrote it when he was 16, and it was damn good for a kid, but his sequels have somehow managed to get progressively worse.
    Imagine Uwe Boll writing novels, and that is the the Inheritance Cycle.
    Hah, would have been nice if Eragon was in this cage match though, would have been satisfying to see him get killed 😀

  163. Raamiah says:

    Fair enough, I’ll give him a chance. Just don’t expect me to vote for him.
    Well, I had an amazing explanation of why tNotW was such a good book written out, but it didn’t go through, and it didn’t fully capture the book anyway. so the abbreviate version it is:
    It is a great book. well written, interesting without being overly dark and clean without seeming like it is working its way around profanities… if thats at all important to you. and Kvothe (and every other cage match character I know) is FARRR deeper than Suvudu makes him seem.

  164. Raamiah says:

    Umm, he was. Aslan killed him.

  165. Furrymoose says:

    Kvothe isn’t exactly a generic fantasy person. In general, a fantasy hero goes off to save the world from certain unavoidable destruction. Kvothe just tries to get by in life. Which sounds boring, but instead of epic sword fights he has like clashes with fellow students and teachers at his school. So although he does have this quest to eradicate evil, it’s really not the main focus of his life during this book. Though he does share a lot of things with other fantasy characters (orphaned youth, magical prowess, quest to defeat undefeatable evil), he really isn’t the same as most of the characters. (He also doesn’t even own a sword for the main storyline of the novel. Though he does have a lute. Which is just as cool.)

  166. Atreus says:

    Oh… Damn… I didn’t even notice, came in on the second week and didn’t even notice him. Well, that just goes to show how very inconsequential that character is in my mind.
    Anywho… now that I have made a fool of myself, I will probably be hittin the hay.
    Wow… how much of a loser do you have to be for even Jesus to be unable to put up with your crap?

  167. Veelana says:

    OK, you convinced me 🙂 I’ll pick up the book – but the afternoon for myself… not gonna happen with two small kids LOL It will have to wait until they sleep…
    and yup, lutes are cool! Bards are my favourite kind of RPG characters.

  168. Liam says:

    Though you may get that impression from the comments all of us fans have been posting, it is most assuredly not the case. Kvothe is actually quite different from other fantasy protagonists, and the structure and flow of tNotW is refreshing and new as well.
    The story begins in third person, with an adult Kvothe who is hiding from the world as an innkeeper. He is approached by a character named Chronicler, who is interested in telling Kvothe’s story, and Kvothe reluctantly agrees.
    The reason we can argue that Kvothe is badass enough to win all of these fights is that he…well tells us, in his preface to telling his story to Chronicler:
    “I have stolen princesses back from sleeping barrow kings. I burned down the town of Trebon. I have spent the night with Felurian and left with both my sanity and my life. I was expelled from the University at a younger age than most people are allowed in. I tread paths by moonlight that others fear to speak of during day. I have talked to Gods, loved women, and written songs that make the minstrels weep.
    You may have heard of me. ”
    The book begins with a retired, somewhat washed up legend (the legend who would most certainly kick Jaime’s ass). However Kvothe begins his story at the beginning, and thus the book is a young boy who has not yet acquired any of the skills, nor committed any of the acts, that are to make him a living legend.
    I literally started reading this book at around 10:00 at night and did not sleep, eat, or do anything else until the book was finished. I quite literally could-not-put-it-down. The writing is tight, and very few words are wasted unlike in most fantasy books. All of the “fantastic” elements also feel very naturally woven into the world, and there’s none of the deus ex machina, or ridiculous god-like powers, that are prevalent in other series too.
    Also, while Kvothe is undeniably a child prodigy, there was not a point in the book where I found myself scoffing in disbelief at his abilities. He does not simply succeed at everything he touches. Many times he fails, or knows he will fail, and throws everything he has at succeeding. Other times, knowing even that is not enough, he cheats. He is also hilariously incompetent with women, in much the way I remember myself being when I was that age.
    So I strongly urge you to read this book. I have read an absolutely copious amount of fantasy, and Patrick Rothfuss currently in a three way tie for first in my list of favourite authors (right next to Joe Abercrombie, and George RR Martin). Beyond that, I have ruthlessly forced this book upon every fantasy reader I know (which is a good portion of them), and not a single one of them has anything less than loved it.
    …in short, just read the book…seriously!

  169. Amen-Ra says:

    Jamie Lanister is not Ambrose. However I don’t want to hang on to the Kvothe of the book. I am just saying that there is not enough information about Kvothe. Truth be told I dont think Jamie without his hand stands a chance against Kvothe or any other competent fighter. I thought it was a joke when they chose Jamie without his hand. But I choose to ignore that handicap because it would be hard enough for Jamie to win with the hand.

  170. Durwen says:

    I’m not sure if Kvothe is a Gary Stu (male counterpart of a Mary Sue, and yes, there are Canon Sues) or not. I think Sueism is a characterizaton problem (and how that characterization is percieved by the reader, at times). You can have sparkling characters with fantabulous and unique powers that won’t come across as Sues or Stues because, first and foremost, they are people, and something in them rings true (i.e., they’re well rounded and believable characters)
    But if the author tells me that his character is super-smart and super cool, and what I’m reading shows me that he’s a stubborn idiot and a spoiled brat that only on occasion does something on the double IQ level… well, we have a problem here.
    I’m of course exaggerating, I don’t think Kvothe is actually that bad, but he does have Stue traits, IMO. And that’s why, although Isomewhat liked the first book, I probably won’t be reading the next installments of The Name of The Wind series. (that’s the reason why I didn’t read past the first book in Mistborn, also. Vin was a gigantic Sue.)
    As a character, I think Jaime is ten times better than Kvothe, and that’s why the Lannister gets my vote. I really don’t care that much about how is he going to do it, because there are hundreds of ways to explain how two given characters can off each other, and what every single one of us is doing here is choosing the winner first and then working out the specifics. And there’s nothing wrong with that, really.

  171. CW says:

    I’ve read both series (or, rather, what is out for both series) and this was a hard choice for me. Kvothe would probably win because of his magic but I have a feeling that Jamie would find some way to beat the odds.
    Jamie’s a BMF (Badass Motherfucker) who’s, as far as we know, more ruthless than Kvothe. In the end, I think the fight would be his.

  172. Dimnara says:

    George just announced to write also some words.
    Uh that’s getting cool. I hope George writes faster – but small chance for that. 😉

  173. Gregor says:

    Ah speaking of Joe, where is the Bloody Nine in this contest? A sad omission =[ Hell, theres NO Abercrombie characters… Even Ferro, or Murcatto could have done really well, and would balance out the gender somewhat.
    Actually, next year, I say we have Glokta and Tyrion in the cage match. Cripple-off!

  174. Cmdrchristof says:

    Road to Levinshir was in one of the writers of the future books which is available in multiple e formats I have it in .lit but you can get in on the kindle. Volume 18 I believe 🙂 so please please read it as it is just amazing 🙂

  175. Thalan says:

    If it comes down to actual swordplay then I have to go with Jaime. Even with the loss of his hand his experience puts him way ahead. Sure Kvothe has done some fighting and proven to be skilled, but Jaime has been through war, tourneys, duels, and god knows what else. That counts for a lot.
    As for the hand thing, thats mostly just a writing tool. I dabble in swordplay and while my offhand isn’t as good as my main it certainly isnt useless. Any swordsman worth his steel will be capable offhanded.

  176. jackie says:

    What’s up with Joe Abercrombie’s books, btw? I looked them up on amazon and The Blade Itself is insanely expensive / not sold by amazon, only other sellers. Was this only printed in the UK or something? It’s very odd to run across a book not sold by amazon…

  177. jackie says:

    Never mind that last – Amazon does carry a normal paperback. Just didn’t come up with the normal search. Very odd.

  178. Bumblebee says:

    Oh man, you’re not even kidding. Not to mention that Eragon (and subsequent novels) are so incredibly derivative. You have to wonder if the rep that bought the book had even *seen* Star Wars, hello…….

  179. dpomerico says:

    Check it out–PATRICK ROTHFUSS has written his piece, which you can read above (you may need to clear your cache if you’re having trouble seeing it).
    Thanks, Pat!

  180. logan says:

    @Gregor: “Actually, next year, I say we have Glokta and Tyrion in the cage match. Cripple-off!” That’s hilarious. And true, where is the Bloody Nine?

  181. siimen says:

    Love the story that Patrick Rothfuss wrote here.
    Now, when I think about it – aren’t we all here because we love a good story?
    And those feral disagreement mostly comes from people NOT writing good enough stories about matches.
    Where BOTH characters feel real and have some moments to really shine. Where there is the feeling of real drama and pressure between phrases.
    Can’t wait for the story from George Martin now!
    Oh, and lakesidey – you really think I’m that shallow? What about inner beauty?
    You writing is SO FINE!

  182. AC says:

    Rothfuss that write up is amazing!!!! Here’s hoping GRRM responds in kind 😀

  183. Joe Dalton says:

    My previous words seem to become true… The finalists will be Rand or Lannister…

  184. GeminiTheSpy says:

    I love Pat and Kvothe both, but in Jaime’s defense, I must retort.
    In response to Rothfuss’s theory of how the fight will go:
    Back at King’s Landing, around the time people start wondering when Jaime will be getting back and begin to worry that he won’t be returning, Bast has also noticed that Kvothe really should have gotten back from whatever he was out doing. Yet, he still hasn’t returned.
    You see, while out, Kvothe encountered a rather travel-weary, but witty and friendly dwarf with a frightening scar where the nose should have been. He recognized this fellow immediately at his opponent’s younger brother, Tyrion, and was immediately suspicious. However, the dwarf didn’t seem to know who Kvothe was. While Tyrion did mention his brother and the cage match he was involved in, he’d been out of touch with Jaime since the Cthulhu fight, and had no idea what sort of trials his brother was facing at the moment.
    Assuming it harmless enough, Kvothe sat down to drink with the dwarf, thinking that maybe he might spare this Jaime fellow for his brother’s sake.
    It wasn’t much later that Tyrion had some friends remove the redhead legend’s body. He’d known all along who Kvothe was and what he might be capable of. Affection aside, Tyrion always betted on family, and he was raking in a fortune.
    *shudder* Agh, I hate fanfiction, and regardless of the reason! Still, I had to make my point somehow, and this seemed like it would prove most effective.
    order and cHaos

  185. frantiforce says:

    It’s important to keep i nmind, too, that a lot of the reason Kvothe seems like a generic fantasy hero is because he’s supposed to sound like a generic fantasy hero -at first-. Rothfuss uses it as a jumping point for a meta-narrative. Kvothe is a deconstruction as much as he is a for-real hero. Kinda like a more serious version of Hot Fuzz for a fantasy book.

  186. DiapDealer says:

    I love how he alternates the spelling of Jaime’s name throughout the write-up. 😉

  187. dpomerico says:

    That’s actually my bad–I transcribed it wrong from his original write-up.
    Will be fixed momentarily

  188. Quoth says:

    ;__; sacrilege! say that is like comparing twilight to jane austen (where apparently stephany meyer got her inspiration from. -shudder austen’s turning in her grave)
    In the name of the wind by rothfuss’s admission was in production for 10 years BEFORE it hit the bookshelves.
    Some scenes of “in the name of the wind” were written when rothfuss was in college. So the world and it’s magic had to have been established before that! The “true name” thing doesn’t look like it has been tossed in without thought!
    Given that paolini published his book when he was 13….and only spent 2-3 years writing it.
    It would mean that when the book was started paolini would have barely been conceived or still wearing nappies (nevermind running around with them)

  189. DiapDealer says:

    Dang. Here I thought it was a funny little inside joke type thing. 🙂

  190. yarleck says:

    @Mary Sue trolls
    I don’t think you actually know what the term is. A Mary Sue character doesn’t have flaws, is the greatest badass known to everyone in the land, the world revolves around this character, and the character is loved by everyone in the world except for the bad guys. Notice the AND in that sentence. Just because a character is one of those things does not make it a Mary Sue, you need ALL of those things. Otherwise, 99% of fantasy stories are going to be filled with Mary Sues because most of fantasies heroes and heroines are the biggest badass in the land.
    So please stop crying Mary Sue. You’re just making yourselves look dumb. My favorite troll/mary sue claimer is Gregor, who dropped the Fanboy card. Your screenname was Gregor, you prat, you don’t get to drop the Fanboy card. Please stop typing.

  191. Wafaa says:

    LOVE Pat’s write up!!

  192. Pixienin says:

    Kvothe has my vote. I read Rothfuss’ description of the fight before voting and it has swayed me. If Jaime gets help from his little brother, then Bast can step in to save his teacher. I agree you Gemini though, they should just team up to kill the next opponent. Alas… Maybe it will happen if they tie…. (please?)

  193. Shanidar says:

    Great one, Mr. Rothfuss! But Lannister is still winning, so it seems swords keep being drawn!

  194. dpomerico says:

    He’s still winning, but the gap is narrowing.

  195. GeminiTheSpy says:

    Didn’t someone say Martin was going to do a write-up too? Where did this information come from? I’ve seen no such update on his blog.

  196. Furrymoose says:

    Kvothe is a-catching up! in the past couple days, hes gone from being down by 26% to 4%. That’s a pretty good comeback thus far. Though the comeback king, Drizzt, seems to have been down by 26% the whole time. So if he’s gonna make one, he’d better do it fast. He’s quite a bit behind.
    Nice writeup, Pat. You didn’t disappoint. I’m glad the dozens of comments on your blog finally reached you. (Seriously. Everyone was reminding him about Suvudu.)

  197. Chris says:

    egads, Pat! I was hoping for a glimpse into Kvothe’s abilities, but instead I got to see the darker side of Bast. You clever son of a bitch.
    Even though I loved the write up, I hate you for it.

  198. Austin M. says:

    Weak Sauce. Prediction is way off. Those would never be Kvothe’s last words. Ever.
    Not to mention that ‘kingslayer’ would not be Jamie’s true name. A Master Namer wouldn’t be a Master if he were to bet his life upon a skill that unreliable.
    Obviously Pat doesn’t want to reveal any more details about his main character…but if this was written after the next book I can promise you there would be no doubt that Kvothe would win the day against a one handed, uppity, spoiled, retched excuse for a soul.
    Characters from my favorite book series, though…so, good work!!
    Thanks for giving me a taste of your writing again Pat. It makes me want to go over to the old book shelf and reread The Name of The Wind.

  199. Achela says:

    hey hey hey im not comparing ANYTHING!!! if you read above there’s some “naming” comparision i didnt do… i was just saying that THAT kind of magic is used in eragon series, that maybe thats why suvudu got confused… u.u i absolutely love pat’s writing and think he’s some sort of a writer god…
    you actually made me feel bad… 🙁

  200. lori says:

    Awww shit, son! Don’t even think about coming between Bast and his Reshi!

  201. NocoN says:

    Wow, Pat’s write-up had me on the edge of my seat. The next book is going to be awesome and if he uses Bast to take out the trash, then so be it.

  202. Elis says:

    I’m guessing it was an April Fool’s joke. I also have not seen GRRM announce any such intention.

  203. siimen says:

    In this case – maybe Kvothe will pull it off!
    or… actually… no, still great, but…
    I mean, poor Jaime! Bast never gave you a chance!
    I’m torn now.

  204. random person says:

    Oh man kvothe is getting closer 66 votes to go
    Go kvothe go!

  205. edwyna says:

    No one should joke about such a thing. Where are the asoiaf fans? I have nothing against Kvothe, but I really want Jaime to win this match.
    I hope that GRRM will do a write up.

  206. Atreus says:

    Holy Crap! 67 votes!
    I do love and respect the character of Jaime… but there is just something about Kvothe that appeals to me. Perhaps it comes from the fact that Jaime had to have his complete world torn from him in order to finally be a man worth rooting for – but Kvothe is a man who by very nature takes others’ burdens upon himself.
    I don’t know, maybe I just like Kvothe more because he sacrificed his entire world for love… while Jaime just fracked his sister for years (yeah, he claims he loved her, but it wasn’t that real)

  207. frantiforce says:

    I’m an asoiaf fan, but I’d really like to see Kvothe pull the upset 😀

  208. jackie says:

    W00T!! GO KVOTHE!!! Yeah Baby! I’d make some analogy to some basketball team closinig a huge gap at the last part of the game… except I have no concept of basketball at all.
    [insert your own sports analogy here]

  209. random person says:

    Kvothe is still 7 votes behind as i write this, however as i’m sure he’ll lead by the time this gets posted, ill be the first for congratulations
    So Kvtothe, well done. Say no to incest! 😛

  210. Waffles says:

    YEAH KVOTHE IS WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO KVOTHE!

  211. Furrymoose says:

    Comeback! Kvothe finally passed Jaime at 4,303 votes!

  212. Specter says:

    Friends, Romans, Kvothian’s, lend me your ears.
    Victory is at last upon us. :3

  213. siimen says:

    Lannister is leading again! Come on, Kvothe-lovers!
    (This is so exciting!)

  214. siimen says:

    And now it’s Kvothe again.

  215. Chris says:

    It is sad how exciting I find this. 😐

  216. dpomerico says:

    We’re jumping up and down here.
    We are physically agitated.
    (By the way–e-mailed George to let him know Jaime’s lead has been lost. Hopefully that will raise his competitive hackles).

  217. Atreus says:

    Lol, it kinda is.
    But this is my last huzzah of nerdiness until I ship off to the Army.

  218. GeminiTheSpy says:

    Ha… I was really feeling sad about Kvothe’s passing Jaime, but then I went back and reread some of the good times with Jaime in A Storm of Swords and succeeded in reminding myself that NO amount of votes will EVER make Kvothe a better charater than Jaime. I like Kvothe, don’t get me wrong, but he’s no Jaime Lannister. All the harsh words brought against him are what make him so memorable and all around awesome, and that’s why I still say “GO KINGSLAYER!!!”
    order and cHaos

  219. Corvidae says:

    You and me both, Chris, you and me both. Keeping tabs on this has been a high point of my day so far, and that scares me.

  220. Specter says:

    We know this. And that is why it is so much fun to destroy that. :3
    Besides, I think it’s hardly fair to judge Kvothe’s character entirely. We haven’t seen everything. The prelude is over, and clouds are on the horizon. From here on, it’ll on get more fun.

  221. Chris says:

    I don’t understand people’s love for Jamie. I love ASOIAF, but Jamie is far from the best character in the series. He’s an arogant, spoiled rich kid that fucks his bitch/whore of a sister. He is not clever or witty or insightful or fun in any way. He *was* a good swordsman, but the goat changed that. He is as one dimentional as they come. Sure, that dimention changed when his hand got whacked off, but he’s still only vaugley interesting at best.

  222. Specter says:

    I disagree with your calling him at flat character, but he isn’t my favorite.
    Arya, you little murderer. :3

  223. Ser Choochie says:

    Jaime starts to sing “The Bear and the Maiden Faire” and Kvothe joins in.
    As the two go about with the madness of the song, Jaime watches as Kvothe loses himself while yelling
    “A BEAR! A BEAR!
    All black and brown and covered with hair!”
    and thrusts Valyrian steel through the happy wizard’s head.

  224. Stenenis says:

    Kvothe’s lead is growing by almost 2 votes/min! keep it up people!

  225. Furrymoose says:

    Kvothe almost has a 100-vote lead! I had given up all hope for a Kvothe victory on this one. He was getting slaughtered at the beginning. But what I want to know is where all these Kvothe fans came from. Did they all read Pat’s blog and get the update? Or did people just start seeing that Kvothe would totally win this one?

  226. MIKE says:


  227. Chefo says:

    Jaime wins this. The Lannisters are just too brutal for a still young (and naive) Kvothe. If anybody will be doing any poisoning, I’d expect it from the ASOIAF fellows…
    Besides, the one character that charisma has utterly no effect on is Jaime. Jaime will smile at Kvothe smugly, say something along the lines of “I was younger, stronger, quicker, and better looking than you” and cut him up with little remorse. Or toss him out of a window.
    Also, if Jaime ends up being poisoned, I can only imagine what ills will befall poor Kvothe when Tyrion catches up with him… so, for Kvothe’s sake, get back to that inn, and forfeit before all hell break loose. Hmmm, maybe that is who Kvothe is hiding from in the book… it all starts to make sense now.

  228. Chris says:

    Maybe I’m being a little harsh on Jamie, but he threw **** out of a window for Aslan’s sake! And I don’t care who you are, humping your twin sister is just wrong. He just doesn’t do anything for me.
    Picking a favorite charater in this series in near impossible for me, which I what makes it so great. If you put a gun to my head and made me choose I would give me Robert in his prime, warhammer in hand.
    Or Dany. I like her alot, too.

  229. Stenenis says:

    KVOTHE LEADS BY 2%!!!!!

  230. MIKE says:

    lol meant to say we will show you what true fans can do…my bad

  231. AHEM says:

    Rothfuss’s write up was 100% pure awesome. I think I’ve just become a full-fledged Kvothe fan.
    It’s neck and neck now . . . anybody’s game . . . go Kvothe, go!
    I really hope Kvothe pulls this one out. Rand vs. Kvothe would be much more interesting as a final, as it might actually see a fight. Rand vs. Jaime would be tiresomely predictable. Either Rand yawns and blinks Jaime into non-existence with no effort, or Jaime wins through sheer fanboyism, neither of which makes for an epic finish.
    Go Kvothe, go!

  232. AHEM says:

    Rothfuss’s write up was 100% pure awesome. I think I’ve just become a full-fledged Kvothe fan.
    It’s neck and neck now . . . anybody’s game . . . go Kvothe, go!
    I really hope Kvothe pulls this one out. Rand vs. Kvothe would be much more interesting as a final, as it might actually see a fight. Rand vs. Jaime would be tiresomely predictable. Either Rand yawns and blinks Jaime into non-existence with no effort, or Jaime wins through sheer fanboyism, neither of which makes for an epic finish.
    Go Kvothe, go!

  233. Amen-Ra says:

    If you had the choice between throwing a child out of the window, or the women you loved and your children being killed what would you choose. I am not saying that he was justified but he had his reasons. Besides, the boy would have fell if he had not caught him anyway. Jamie just removed himself from the situation.

  234. The Jaguar says:

    I was hoping for a good write up if one or both of the authors did one. But that write up basically guarantees that if Kvothe wins this fight, he loses the next one. Rothfuss told us which Kvothe is in the tournament. It’s a Kvothe with no powers, a Kvothe that stood no chance whatsoever of winning a fight against Jaime, and so won by default when Bast poisoned Jaime.
    And as I saw at least one other person comment. Tyrion will be greatly upset over this, if Jaime is killed by poisoning in such a manner. Meaning that even if Kvothe somehow gained back his powers for the next match, he’d still end up dead even before the match happens (because of Tyrion) and Rand would be the automatic winner.
    I’m no longer happy with Kvothe being winner (if he wins). And yes, I would have been happy with it before that write up.

  235. vitt says:

    u go chris!!! my thoughts exactly. jaime, a gr8 character? he ties to kill a child just becoz bran spots him sleeping with his twin sister.grrm fans, u call that gr8? what’s so gr8 abt that? on the other hand, kvothe is a really well sketched character. ROTHFUSS RULEZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!1

  236. Dude says:

    “Road to Levinshir was in one of the writers of the future books which is available in multiple e formats I have it in .lit but you can get in on the kindle. Volume 18 I believe 🙂 so please please read it as it is just amazing :)”
    Dude, you’re fucking killing me here.
    It’s like a striptease.
    I don’t know what .lit is or kindle, Googling Kindle didn’t help me find it, googling .lit didn’t help me find it either. Googling the name of the book and the excerpt had the same results.
    Please, please, please, just post a link or give more instructions as to how I can read this excerpt. Where exactly I can find it. Seriously, I really want to read anything with Kvothe. Name of the Wind had me hooked, and now I have the oppurtunity to see legend Kvothe in action.
    But your post was just to vague for people not familiar with the specific terms you used.

  237. Stenenis says:

    There are some times that I just hate the people I happen to be on the same side as.
    This is one of those times.

  238. Amen-Ra says:

    Don’t wory. Jamie will pull it out in the end. When everything is said and done, what Jamie cand do is well known and documented. What Kvothe can do is questionable. I am not willing to crown Kvothe because of future glory. I say Jamie gets up in that ring and does not do or say anything at all. Let the silence take Kvothe.
    If Jamie looses its because the folks at Suvudu fixed the fight by making him fight without his sword hand. Don’t understand the reasons for that.

  239. Stenenis says:

    how is Suvudu making Jamie fight without his sword hand any less fair than making Kvothe fight without his sympathy?

  240. Gena says:

    Nicely done Rothfuss. I can totally see Bast pulling that off!!!!

  241. Chris says:

    I don’t know what .lit is, but a Kindle is an electronic book from Amazon. Either way, the Future Writers is not on it.
    As you may or may not know, the Road to Levinshir is published in two places: Tales of Dark Fantasy and Writers of the Future Vol 18. Tales of Dark Fantasy retails for about $90 on Amazon.
    I just picked up Writers of the Future Vol 18 on Amazon for a whopping $4, including shipping. That would most likely be your best bet.

  242. Chris says:

    I understand why he did it, and if put in the same situation I probably would have done the same thing. The thing is that I would never be in that situation (besides that fact that it’s purely fictional) because I WOULDN’T BE FUCKING MY SISTER! Seriously, one of the big glaring weaknesses of GRRM’s book are his fixation on insest and rape. It’s enough to make you wonder what he dreams about at knight. 😐
    I have no doubt that if GRRM flexed his fan muscles that Jamie would run away with this in about an hour. He has until tomorrow morning @ 11. And honestly, if he posts up something at 10 and Kvothe has a 2000 vote lead, it won’t be safe. Let’s just hope he doesn’t. 🙂

  243. siimen says:

    I believe they made him fight without hand to make voters like him more.
    Jaime wasn’t so very popular among fans, when his hands were both attached, you know.

  244. SJ Stanley says:

    Ah, what a difference a good write-up doth make! Considering I’ve spent every spare moment the last several days buried in tNotW for the _3rd_ time, it’s a genuine pleasure to see Pat’s prose work its magic again.
    Made me think of the final scene in the book btwn Chronicler & Bast. Love it — oh, and @Veelana, fwiw, I have 2 small kids too. Didn’t stop me from reading Pat’s book any of the 3 times I’ve read it!
    “And I swear by the night sky and the ever-moving moon: if you lead my master to despair [or let him lose to Lannister], I will slit you open and splash around like a child in a muddy puddle. I’ll string a fiddle with your guts and make you play it while I dance.” – Bast
    Kvothe FTW!

  245. Gregor says:

    What’s my name got to do with it? :/
    Also I’m not trolling, I genuinely think Kvothe is a bit of a Mary Sue.
    I called out frantiforce as being a fanboy, as he retorted ‘Not all competent, distinctive, talented and charismatic characters are Mary Sues, Gregor. Sometimes a writer is -zomg – not an attention-starved egomaniac’ to a slight criticism against Rothfuss’ character. If you can somehow take great personal insults from innocent debate, then your probably a fanboy.
    I’m sorry folks, I didnt realise the term was such a dirty word around here. What I meant to say was Kvothe is just a biiiiit too perfect at everything. But thats okay, cause Rothfuss makes it interesting anyway.
    Actually, seeing as the book is basically Kvothe relating his life story, maybe he’s MEANT to be a bit Sue-ish xD

  246. Ha! says:

    OMG! 0.0 Patrick’s version is wierd! Awesome but wierd! and the version that these other people wrote…I don’t know. Kvothe is awesome..I’m in,love with him…but Jamie…To be honest I don’t know much about him other than what info They have given. I have faith that Kvothe will find a way…

  247. Gregor says:

    Even if they were expensive, sooo worth it.

  248. Furrymoose says:

    “Let the silence take Kvothe”? What does that mean?
    This was an incredibly dramatic comeback… A bit too dramatic… I’m suspecting an April Fool’s kinda think on Suvudu’s part…

  249. ashaman33 says:

    I am a fan of both series and both characters, but as much as I see Rothfuss becoming the next Martin, and as much as I hate the entirely too long wait before A Dance With Dragons comes out, and as much as Jaime is lacking a hand, Jaime’s character is still way cooler than Kvothe’s in my opinion. I love how Jaime’s character has changed between his losing his hand and getting to know Brienne!
    I actually would be completely fine with Kvothe winning because realistically he does have a better chance against Rand Althor, but no one beats the Dragon Reborn, why? Because Rand is the greatest Taveren and the pattern bends around him, so even if Kvothe knows Rand’s true name, the pattern will make him mute or something, so they are both fighting for the opportunity to lose to the Dragon!

  250. jackie says:

    I disagree with you (strongly!!) on the Mary Sue bit, but I wouldn’t call you a troll either.
    For what it’s worth anyway.

  251. Gregor says:

    @jackie: well thanks 😛 i was mostly going for the tvtropes.org version of sue so if you want to understand my meaning look there 😛
    @furrymoose: if you remember at the end of NotW there was a silence of 3 parts, and the biggest silence was the silence of Kvothe waiting to die. thats probably what he means

  252. Furrymoose says:

    Perfect at everything? That’s a bit of an exaggeration. Kvothe was far from it. First off, he lived on the streets with no money whatsoever for a long time. Most perfect characters wouldn’t do that. An most authors writing themselves as a perfect character wouldn’t come close to doing that. Also, Kvothe really never did anything perfectly. When he tries to teach a class and bring justice to his teacher, he ends up getting whipped. When he mocks a fellow student, he gets whipped again (and has to write an apology). When he tries to save the town from a draccus, he ends up burning it down. Just from these three examples you can see that he really isn’t close to being a “perfect character”.

  253. DiapDealer says:

    “Also I’m not trolling, I genuinely think Kvothe is a bit of a Mary Sue.”
    Fair enough. I won’t beleaguer the point, but if Kvothe is a bit of a Mary Sue, then by the same token–99% of fantasy heroes must be a bit of a Mary Sue as well.
    I prefer to save the epithet for someone who meets 100% of the criteria.

  254. Furrymoose says:

    Ya thats what I thought, but it seemed like he was saying that Kvothe couldn’t handle the silence or something. Kvothe was making it silent.

  255. Gregor says:

    He lived on the streets for years and always managed to have enough money to get by. He went close to bankrupt so many times in the university but still somehow managed to think his way out. When he gets whipped, he (as a young man) somehow manages to avoid screaming out in pain, earning the the admiration yadda yadda of his classmates. Its things like that that make me say ‘Mary Sue’. Perhaps thats the wrong term. I dunno, I dont really care anymore. I like Kvothe. It wasnt even me that said Mary Sue in the first place, I was trying to back up somebody elses point ;_;

  256. DiapDealer says:

    “Perhaps thats the wrong term.”
    Yes. I think the term you’re looking for is “Protagonist”. 😉

  257. Ben says:

    I’ve been waiting for this matchup, as both authors have huge amounts of difficulty with publication dates.

  258. Shanidar says:

    And right now, definitely beaten or it seems XD
    Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn again!

  259. archon says:

    no… It’s the WoT fans coming in to vote for Kvothe… they know that from a perspective of fans, Jaime might actually beat Rand… But Kvothe will auto-lose in the finals to Rand.

  260. Furrymoose says:

    @ Gregor
    Alright. I see where you’re going there. He does do a lot of things right. But where would the story be if he simply died on the streets? I mean, he kinda has to do those kind of things (scrape by and whatnot) in order to survive. And even not showing pain had its consequences as he ended up getting kicked out of the Stacks. Though this Mary Sue thing is kinda pointless. Who really cares? Kvothe is awesome. ‘Nuff said.
    @ archon
    Ah. Got it. Though Kvothe would have a chance against Rand in an actual fight. Moreso than Jaime. I can’t wait to see what they have to write on this one. Though a lot of Kvothe fans have also been supporting Rand. Which means there could be some divided loyalties coming up…

  261. frantiforce says:

    That was me taking personal offense? I didn’t feel offended. I pout your name in because I was responding personally to you, because most of the comment was to enlighten you to the aspects of tabletop role-playing, of which you’ve admitted to being ignorant. It might have been laced with obscenities, but I enjoy swears 😀
    Didn’t mean to be a dick.

  262. Specter says:

    Hey now, people. Let’s not forget that a good number of George R. R. Martin fans were torn between Kvothe and Jaime. For the final round, whoever wins, they’ll come through for us!

  263. Atreus says:

    Methinks you don’t understand the environment Kvothe was raised in. The Lannisters might be a group of true bastards, but Kvothe’s childhood was spent in the most bloodthirsty and cutthroat environment imaginable. Sure, Jaime probably has a lot of dirty tricks up his sleeves, but one of Kvothe’s gifts is finding the weakness in something, and exploiting it.
    He is a relatively nice guy with a few “heroic” tendencies, but nothing about his character shows he is beyond being bloodthirsty and brutal when he needs to be.
    Still, I would love to read GRRM’s perspective on this – If he could find a way to make Jaime kill Cthulu, then I would love to see how he goes about taking out Kvothe.
    Two of my favorite authors – but right now I think Rothfuss needs the publicity more. Martin has a frackin TV show for crying out loud, his reputation can afford to lose a little 😀

  264. BHBeanbag says:

    Jamie and Kvothe should end the match by turning on their creators for not producing the next book in the series in a reasonable amount of time.
    Double Suicide

  265. Furrymoose says:

    Sheesh. You make him sound like Ender Wiggin. Yet I guess it’s true in a way… He did destroy all of that one kid’s stuff on the streets. And he prodded Ambrose a bit too much. But is that really one of his greatest gifts? I’ll have to ponder that one…

  266. tron says:

    You are indeed using the wrong term, though in your defense the “Mary Sue” label is greatly overused by armchair critic. Kvothe may be exceptional in many ways, but every epic fantasy protagonist (Jon Snow for one,Rand al’Thor for another) is an exception to the norms of their story.
    Being exceptional does not make the character a Mary Sue.

  267. Amen-Ra says:

    Both of these characters have suffered greatly and have lived hard tortured lives. Both of these men have been broken in a way. It is difficult to gauge just how broken Kvothe is because we don’t know enough of his story. I doubt that either man would have any trouble killing the other if the circumstances warranted it. Obviously Kvothe has the advantage because of magic, but I doubt he could win in a clash of swords. I am going for Jamie because I am not certain of what Kvothe can or cant do and I like Jamie more.

  268. Amen-Ra says:

    Lack of sympathy is not listed on Kvothes list of weaknesses and Kvothe trying to use sympathy on Jamie could be an advantage for Jamie. Jamie missing his sword hand is a far greater disadvantage for Jamie. Fighting with his left hand he could not beat Illyn Payne. It was not even close. Without Jamie’s sword hand he does not even belong in this competition. Whats he going to do, bludgeon Kvothe to death with his stump.

  269. Dally says:

    Just got my copy of The Name of the Wind today, so I haven’t gotten a chance to read it yet. Though I’m a big fan of ASOIAF, so I have to vote Jaime.

  270. alicelouise58 says:

    Maybe there can be a Jaime/Drizzt match…in the Consolation Final.
    Could GRRM or Salvatore be moved to do a write up if Suvudu decided to do it?

  271. Colter says:

    Mmm, frothy.

  272. positronics says:

    Thank you, Amen-Ra, for pointing out something that no one has yet to show…
    Jaime is in no shape to sword fight against a pro like Kvothe, since he’s missing his sword hand. He says so himself in FoC.
    And who claimed that Jaime was the best swordsman alive in Westeros? That has not been established at all, and there is evidence to the contrary… he is definitely in the upper tier being a Kingsguard, an experienced warrior, and having trained under Broom at the Rock, but I’d like to see how he’d fair against those who kill often and for a living, like Bronn or Belwas.
    One of the great things about SoIaF is the characters are realistic and balanced. Like in real life, no matter how good you are, there is always someone better. Don’t pretend Jaime is a worldbeater when he is not. Drogo with his arakh could have probably given him a run for the money.

  273. scott says:

    NOO! I think GRRM is either still in a funk from his bout with the Creeping Crud, or really hard at work on Dance with Dragons. He didn’t do his own version of the last match, and he hasn’t even mentioned this one. Barely any posts on his not-a-blog recently, for that matter. Still, NOO!

  274. Terremoto says:

    Awww NOOO Jamie is falling behind!! Man as soon as he wins a write up he starts losing. The battle of the one handed men needs to happen!

  275. Specter says:

    Everyone, I think that maybe Mr. Martin checks his email in the morning, after he wakes up maybe. Either that, or he has lost interest.
    If he can capitalize on all the resources of his Not a Blog, then who can say what this might end with.
    Personally I’m hoping he sleeps in and wakes at . . . say, noon. 🙂

  276. Jonathan says:

    George has a write up.
    Unfortunately, it may be too late… Hope not, though. Come on, Jaime!

  277. Tom Strong says:

    Martin has posted his write up. It’s rather bloody, what with Chronicler, Bast, and Kvothe…
    Just twelve hours left, though, which is rather short to turn things around.

  278. archon says:

    “Thank you, Amen-Ra, for pointing out something that no one has yet to show…
    Jaime is in no shape to sword fight against a pro like Kvothe, since he’s missing his sword hand. He says so himself in FoC.”
    Are you serious?
    This has been pointed out at least a dozen times… 3 of those by me…
    Hopefully you’re being sarcastic.

  279. Aryador says:

    Here’s George RR Martin’s version:
    I never realized how much humor he has. His books are gripping, but they rarely are as funny and witty as his last 2 write ups.

  280. Specter says:

    I wish he’d decided to include the fact that Kvothe was a Kingslayer, after a fashion. I guess he was in a rush.
    Who knows what will happen now?
    Clouds on the horizon . . .

  281. lakesidey says:

    “you really think I’m that shallow? What about inner beauty?”
    _insert flirtatious comeback here_
    _insert modest protestations of not being that good a writer_
    _insert request for number_
    No, seriously, though….what I write is doggerel. I’m fairly good at rhyming, but that doesn’t make me a good writer. What I *want* to be good at is creating a complex yet consistent story like GRRM does… developing a character so that the reader goes from hating to admiring the scumbag…. now that would be a dream.
    I mean, look at it – my writeup above swayed, what, 5 people? But Patrick’s has already swayed a few thousand (and more still coming in! GRRM where art thou?)
    _insert lame Patrick swayze joke here_
    If I could write like a GRRM or a Rothfuss…(hell, I’d settle for being able to write a “Prisoner of Azkaban” even)….I would die happy(ish). But for now it must remain a dream, perhaps one day I can also be an awesome author with an impressive beard (umm, like GRRM, not JKR) but for now I remain a weapon of math instruction.
    Oh, and siimen, you might also want to consider that if you’re where most of the people on this thread are, then I live about as far away as it is possible to be without leaving the planet. Small peas by science fiction standards, I know, but still….;)

  282. lakesidey says:

    “Ask and you shalt receive”, they say. And lo and behold, GRRM provides!
    *The only sad bit is, Cersei _still_ lives*
    Go Jaime!! And if you make the final, do borrow back Oathkeeper for that – Widow’s Wail is a little too short (besides Rand isn’t exactly married yet)!

  283. SigTauGimp says:

    Rothfuss’s write-up sold me. I’m even going to go buy tNotW tomorrow, if I can find a copy.
    I will admit, though, that it was very close between Jaime and Kvothe for me. I’ve been back and forth in my mind since the brackets opened up.

  284. Samuel says:

    Ha haaa…
    The Questing Lannisters! I love it!
    A dwarf, a knight, and a queen all went into a bar…
    Bravo to GRRM! I enjoyed Mr. Rothfuss’s very much as well (and indeed, I think I got my fix for the two respective series off either blurb), but Bast poisoning Jaime can’t quite appeal to my action-loving sensibilities as much as Jaime and Kvothe actually dueling up and down the inside of the tavern.

  285. rain says:

    Hm… I have to admit that I’ve never read asoif (I’m at it though…) and maybe having read the whole series would change my view, but I kinda think that GRRMs write upu only contains action, but lacks the depth the rothfuussian write-up shows. Sure, I like action. Alot. But between the arguments “I can fight better” and “my only friend is really loyal” the latter wins for me. 😉

  286. Tal says:

    Eh…yeah, ASOIAF will change your view, xD. Tyrion’s mere presence is depth enough to be going on with…

  287. archon says:

    Nothing like waiting until the last second George… now you have to make up about 500 votes before lunch… TODAY.

  288. Kansa says:

    This one is going to be close

  289. dpomerico says:

    Just to let you all know, the George R.R. Martin write-up is now attached to this Cage Match, below Rothfuss’ up above.
    It appears it’s going to be Team Lannister versus the Tag Team of Kvothe and Bast!
    Yeah–it’s five in the morning.

  290. lakesidey says:

    Close it will be indeed! Jaime’s gained by about 130 votes in the last one hour, but with so little time left….

  291. simpsonim says:

    Get this… On the top of the page it says:
    “Click here for Patrick Rothfuss’ idea of how this fight would go!”
    “Click here for George R.R. Martin’s idea of how the fight will go!”
    Patrick Rothfuss – how the fight WOULD go
    George R.R. Martin – how the fight WILL go
    LOL, I think it’s obvious what suvudu people think of Mr. Martin and his fan base XD

  292. MrSpicey says:

    Hey Guys, i cant find the write ups of Rothfuss and Martin. Can you help me?
    By the way, if Kvothe wins, thats only because Rothfuss wrote his write up earlier.

  293. Specter says:

    I can’t see how you could possibly know that without looking at the write-ups.
    Anyway, they’re the shiny orange ‘click here’ colored text below the character pictures.

  294. MrSpicey says:

    Thanks, how could i miss them?
    I think i know it because Jaime was leading all the time, then came Rothfuss. Now after i read the stories I have to say it is even more true. Patrick´s story is better. But I still hope for Jaime.

  295. Aryador says:

    My assumption is that after “cheating” a bit on the Cthulhu match, George RR Martin thought that a real duel would be the right thing. There have been a lot of write ups which have gone far astray from the initial idea of a cage match (several come to mind, and Kvothe vs. Aslan being one of them).
    So being back to the real duel is kind of fun too.
    Although I do agree: It seems as if George was in a hurry. The first part does not fit the second part. First is funny, ironic, second one is grim, more in the slim style of ASoIaF, where war means death, and protagonists die, without a last word.
    Doesn’t matter. He should concentrate on his books and save the quality writing for that. If this write up is what George RR Martin can produce by just shaking his hand a bit and not doing too much thinking, I still applaud.
    BTW: My copies of “His Majesty’s Dragon” and “The Name of the Wind” arrived today. Thank you, Suvudu!

  296. lakesidey says:

    Another hour, another 150 votes covered. Still over 300 to go…

  297. Nomad says:

    I must admit didn’t read George R.R. Martin’s Book by now but get a lot of recommendations for this one. However this write-up of him is… hmm.. starts a little funny but the action is uninspiring and the showdown just did not exist. Hope he was in an aweful hurry and the rest of his writing is much better.
    Vote for Kvothe.

  298. Samuel says:

    I have to disagree there. It’s just a different style. Martin borrows some elements from the horror genre, intentionally playing down combat for a grittier, more brutal feel. I mean, he could write:
    “Jaime and Kvothe ranged across the desolate plain, blades ringing like bells, sparks flying from the edges. Lightning flashed in the heavens, and the eyes of the two peerless warriors were kindled with celestial fury as they strove, boots churning in the mud. Clash, and clash again, the tremors going up and down their arms. Yet still they struggled on, unflagging, all grace and skill and unequaled power, like two cats of the jungle. Quick as thought, smooth as silk, deadly as love. Faster and faster rang the blades…”
    He could, but he doesn’t (mostly because the above would be really cheesy, xD). I agree that his pieces feel hastily written, but don’t by any means let that turn you away from the series. I have met very few people who could look back on the books and say it was a poor experience.

  299. archon says:

    not to worry… the books are top notch… this write up was clearly something he did in complete haste. He posted it at 1:18 AM… I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he checked the site on a shim just before bed and saw what was going on so he wipped something up off the top of his head to get something out before crashing…

  300. archon says:

    not to worry… the books are top notch… this write up was clearly something he did in complete haste. He posted it at 1:18 AM… I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he checked the site on a whim just before bed and saw what was going on so he whipped something up off the top of his head to get something out before crashing…

  301. Jaime4win says:

    GRRM posted his version! Check it out and vote:

  302. MrSpicey says:

    Jaime gets closer every second. It is sick how much this excits me…

  303. Aryador says:

    The good thing about ASoIaF is the style of the plot. Martin writes from different perspectives a story where nobody trusts each other, and some people are really nasty.
    However, when he takes their positions, he achieves stunningly to even make some of the more nastier people suddenly likeable. He also manages to change his style a bit, according to whose point of view he is writing about.
    The second strong point is the almost complete lack of magic, although magic is present, but more as some kind of dark, mystical thing. An almost tolkienesque thing to do, if that comparison is allowed.
    Instead, he describes a very real, medieval world. But a world that is kind of rotten, declining. Martin is very strong in describing declining societies. Some of his other stories have this topic also as sub plot.
    Those are the two main strong features about his serie, as I see them.

  304. lakesidey says:

    He’s within a 100 votes now (yes I’m deriving geeky pleasure out of this too)
    ~ Y’know, though I am quite liking Kvothe, Aslan should have won that earlier round, and lost in THIS one….after all, what could be more apt for him than dying on Good Friday? 😛

  305. MrSpicey says:

    And for a lion to get killed by another one….
    40 votes biatch….

  306. Chris says:

    30 more..
    Come on, Lannister!

  307. siimen says:

    Alright, maybe I don’t want to marry you after all.
    (I live in Easter Europe, btw. I’m afraid my trouble with English is rather evident.)
    But if Jaime wins, in my mind it will be like in your version, not in mr Martin’s. Come on, Bast killed by dwarf’s dagger? How exactly? He would dodge easily, if Tyrion throws one, and if Tyrion stabbed him, it would most likely not be deadly and at least (AT LEAST) Bast would take him down too.
    I mean, I love Tyrion. I love him more than Jaime, and I love Jaime a lot. But to kill Bast, you’d need to be far more terrible warrior or mage than Tyrion is. Just being really cool person would no be enough.

  308. Samuel says:

    Aaaand…they’re exactly tied.

  309. MrSpicey says:

    Jamie leads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  310. samjlisindrom says:

    jaime is leading!!!
    hear him roar!!!

  311. lakesidey says:

    India here….(which means I’ve spent all afternoon following this match. I need to get a life, indeed I do! but now Jaime is ahead…. whoohoo!!)
    But I always knew Jaime would fight back….he wouldn’t take this “lion down” _cue groans_ 😉
    Umm, about Tyrion? Remember the axe in his fist battle (when he just got back from the mountains of the moon) and the battle at the waterfront….sure he didn’t kill many people, but he did kill some. And came out alive. Well, mostly. People tend to underestimate him, I’m betting Bast might too…

  312. Kyle says:

    Though I think Martin’s write-up was a little sub par, it seems to be doing the trick. Closed the gap in a big way.
    Regardless, I’m still voting for Kvothe. 😛

  313. siimen says:

    Bast’s not even human!
    Could be he can’t be killed like human either.

  314. Veelana says:

    Vienna, Europe – kids are down for their afternoon nap…
    I kept checking this fight all morning – the write up seems to work! Go Jaime!

  315. Rae says:

    wew! Jaimes pulled out in front now by 30+ pts. He was behind by 80 pts an hour ago. grrm got in just in time ;-P

  316. seed says:

    Patrick Rothfuss’ write up was pretty well done. May have to check out some of his books..
    But still.. go Jaime!

  317. nacona says:

    Pat and George both did very good.. It was nice of them to take the time out for their fans. I’m sure they are both very busy. It’s good to read something new from them on some of our favorite characters 🙂

  318. Rick says:

    Of all the characters in this cage match from all the books there were not many who I felt inspired me to go out and buy the series when I read the write ups. I may try out name of the wind tho as it does seem to have some interesting characters. The one series this cage match has completely swung me away from is WoT as everything I’ve heard about Rand has made he sound like a complete powerhouse character with no real interesting qualities.

  319. Shanidar says:

    14:34 PM in West Europe and Jaime is winning again!! GO JAIME GO! 🙂

  320. seed says:

    It’s true that rand turns out pretty powerful, and personally I don’t find rand all that great but there are so many great characters in WoT other than rand. It’s not a bad series at all as far as characters go, it’s only flaw in my eyes is the way the plot tends to stretch out for books at a time..

  321. NocoN says:

    wow, close match so far

  322. siimen says:

    /cradles Kvothe’s dying body and cries like a baby.
    “I’m so sorry I could not do more, rally any more votes, frikkin’ BITE Jaime,if needed! And I have no idea where your girl Dianne is, cause mr. Rothfuss did not tell me, and I am NO HELP AT ALL, I’m so sorry!”

  323. Shadow'Bane says:

    You all anti-Rand-fans seem to really underestimate Rand
    to make you remember
    Rand is reincarnation of Lewis Therin Telamon ,because of the use of tainted saidin he was hearing Lewis Therin which actually was his memories from his previous life.
    and he overcame that madness in WOT 12 Gathering Storm’s last chapter i.e the Veins of Gold
    and as you all remember that Lewis Therin(Rand) was
    1.the greatest swordsman in the Age of Legends ref.Be’lal says this in WOT 3
    2.the most powerful male channeler of all time
    3.master strategist i.e proved by he was able counter and avoid the plots by 13 forshaken
    4.brave enough to be the Head of Griffindor ,for he attacked the Dark One with just 100 followers ,even though the female Aes Sedai refused to help,leaving then unable to create circles
    5.he is a ta’veren so powerful that people in his presence would speak truth even though they intended to lie
    and yet some stupid people call him an “UNDERDOG”

  324. Mata says:

    “Hogfart’s place” – LOL. I would have voted for Jaime for that one line only, had I not voted for him two days ago.

  325. Kim Smith says:

    The votes are very close but I hope Jaime and Rand win. The Wheel of TIme is my favorite book seris and the Fire and Ice seris my second. Although I don’t see any way for Jaime to beat Rand.

  326. DiapDealer says:

    I enjoyed both of these series–so it’s appropriate that this match is so close.
    I thought Rothfuss’ write-up was a little better than GRRM’s, though.
    A word of advice to GRRM: An author of bloody, political, dark medieval fantasy should never make funny references to Show Tunes in any of his writing (even if the majority of his fan’s are too young to get the joke)

  327. Samuel says:

    AGH! Dammit…I thought I had finally resolved I was rooting for Jaime. But now he’s pulling ahead, I’m suddenly rooting for Kvothe again.
    *Weeps* Both of these charries have too great a claim on my affections. I will weep bitter tears if either of them loses…
    Don’t suppose we can orchestrate a tie, lol? They can team up against the seemingly unstoppable Rand al’Thor…

  328. Furrymoose says:

    NOOOO!!! Jaime got like 900 votes overnight! Why did Martin have to write a story? Speaking of which, there were a couple questions I had about it. First off, for Jaime’s sword to break Kvothe’s in half, wouldn’t he have to hit it in the EXACT same place over and over? And even if he did manage to do that, wouldn’t Kvothe notice if there was one massive dent in his sword that was slowly going all the way through? And third, for Jaime’s sword to cut through Kvothe’s wouldn’t they both have to be hitting very hard? This is a problem that comes up in Brisingr when Eragon has to find a sword strong enough for him, but only because he hits very hard. Two average swordsmen don’t cut through each other’s sword, even if one of the swords is stronger than the other. Needless to say, a “Balefire!” final may be on the way. And I will be among those watching the Dragon Reborn take it away.

  329. the MYTH says:

    which joke ur talking about ……?
    the hogfart one……??

  330. DiapDealer says:

    No, not the Hogfart joke. The other one that went right over everybody’s head–and rightfully so.

  331. Pixienin says:

    Remember Gem, at least two more books to go. There’s plenty of time for you to change your mind.

  332. Pixienin says:

    Two thumbs up 😀

  333. Ki says:

    Judging purely on the write-ups provided by the authors, and not on my personal knowledge of the characters or the books–come ON, GRRM, way to be lamesauce. Pat clearly put a lot of thought and effort into his work, and actually paid Jaime the tribute of characterizing him correctly. GRRM couldn’t even get the Waystone Inn’s name right, wrote a terrible fight scene, paid no attention at all to his opponents’ characterizations, and vindictively (childishly?) killed Bast off just because of Pat’s write-up. Jaime may win the popularity contest, but I know whose next book I’m going to buy.

  334. karabaja says:

    subliminal messaging at its finest 😀

  335. Furrymoose says:

    NOOOO!!! Jaime got like 900 votes overnight! Why did Martin have to write a story? Speaking of which, there were a couple questions I had about it. First off, for Jaime’s sword to break Kvothe’s in half, wouldn’t he have to hit it in the EXACT same place over and over? And even if he did manage to do that, wouldn’t Kvothe notice if there was one massive dent in his sword that was slowly going all the way through? And third, for Jaime’s sword to cut through Kvothe’s wouldn’t they both have to be hitting very hard? This is a problem that comes up in Brisingr when Eragon has to find a sword strong enough for him, but only because he hits very hard. Two average swordsmen don’t cut through each other’s sword, even if one of the swords is stronger than the other. Needless to say, a “Balefire!” final may be on the way. And I will be among those watching the Dragon Reborn take it away.

  336. EneidaBlack says:

    Go on Kvothe!!

  337. scott says:

    Once again, ask and ye shall receive. I’m batting a thousand this round. Thanks, Mr.

  338. Bremon says:

    AAaAhhh! Curses!
    *clutches head in agony, stares at screen in disbelief*
    459 votes??!
    Come on Kvothe! you can recover!
    Come on NotW fans!
    We can totally do this in…*checks watch* two hours or something!

  339. siimen says:

    We could, if Lannister-friends would stop adding votes.
    But they are rallying too.
    I did what I could. Sent my whole family on the barricades.
    Now I just sit here and watch Kvothe bleed.
    And I weep, but there can be beauty and song in the loss too. No sword or fire can take away our loyalty or erase the legend of Kvothe.

  340. Spitfire says:

    Awesome poem! And I’m so glad you brought Vimes in. He and Caine (from Stover’s Heroes Die and sequels) were the two characters I wished had been included in the cage match that weren’t.

  341. Furrymoose says:

    Oops. Sorry for double-posting. It said it didn’t work the first time.

  342. Jonathan says:

    I’ve been eagerly anticipating the one-handed gimp final since round 2…

  343. Muk says:

    Thing is, Rand doesn’t even need to use Balefire to win against Jaime. Jaime might live a second more if he still had his other hand, but that’s about it. So, the only way Jaime can win, is if he can somehow get Rand to drink some forkroot tea. That accomplishes two things, separation from the true power, at least long enough to do something, and drowsiness/maybe incapacitation. Well, as long as forkroot can actually work against men who can channel. It’s a shot though, maybe the only shot Jaime really has.

  344. The Jaguar says:

    Haha, while I agree that GRRM did get the name wrong, and killed off Bast way too easily (or was it? Tyrion IS rather dangerous), and wrote in Kvothe’s sword as being rather lame when it shouldn’t be…
    I have to once again say that Rothfuss’ write up, even though it was better written, shot himself in the foot. Kvothe didn’t even appear in it, Bast isn’t part of the competition. He can help Kvothe prepare, he can help keep someone from interfering, but actually going in and POISONING the enemy is a completely different thing. Rothfuss also told us in the write up that the Kvothe in this competition is a magic-less out of practice not determined to win Kvothe.
    In GRRM’s write ups, Tyrion has assisted with information, he hasn’t actually gone in and done something against Jaime’s opponent. I’m not sure why Cersei was along for this fight, but it doesn’t really matter.

  345. blogger says:

    This was an amazing fight!! too bad for Kvothe..

  346. fan says:

    IT´S OVER!!!!!!!!
    Only the Dragon Reborn left…. its going to be a piece of cake… lol

  347. Annoyed Person says:

    This is getting really annoying. The reason kvothe would in anyway be unable to use sympathy is when he is in the inn and his name has been changed to kote. Names have power and when he changed his it made him less than he was… average. BUT since in this tournament he is referred to as Kvothe he would have all abilities available to him. k thx bai.

  348. fiirvoen says:

    I really would like to change my vote from Jaime to Kvothe. After reading Rothfuss’ and GRRM’s takes, I have to say that Rothfuss had the better story.

  349. Joe Shlemiel says:

    I liked George’s writeup. It was light and funny. There’s enough serious thought that goes into ASoIaF. He doesn’t need to be epic all the time.
    To whoever wrote “Jaime and Kvothe ranged across the desolate plain, blades ringing like bells, sparks flying from the edges,” you clearly wrote that while masturbating to your own hackneyed over-epicness. Go die.

  350. diane says:

    If you really want to see this fight written by GRR Martin you could go on over to http://grrm.livejournal.com/ and read it.

  351. AC says:

    OMG that was amazing, it was like the great blurb off with my 2 favorite authors!
    I had a hard time choosing who to vote for.

  352. Stephen says:

    Now I see the real reason Suvudu started this cage match: two fanfiction pieces from two of the best fantasy authors writing today trying to kill each other’s characters. I think I just had a nerdgasm.

  353. Gregor says:

    Exactly, Kvothe’s character fit the book and the story perfectly, and Rothfuss’ writing made sure there was never a dull moment. I never said otherwise! xD
    @frantiforce: Okay, sorry, I may have gotten a little snappy myself ^^”
    Also, woo! Go Jaime!

  354. Myles says:

    1. It’s the Waystone Inn not the Wayfarer.
    2. Unless Tyrion’s dagger was pure iron (I’m guessing it wasn’t), it would not have done much against Bast.
    3. Rothfuss’ story was overall the better one, although I do have to give props to Martin for getting one done.

  355. CF says:

    Though I doubt Jaime Lannister would ever say “screw you,” I agree with the rest of their predicted outcome. 🙂

  356. dpomerico says:

    You’re right–he’d probably say something much, much fouler. 🙂

  357. Ceomyr says:

    I went with Kvothe on this one, Kvothe isn’t so easy to cheat for Jaime and it’s assumed he has magic powers and can use them while staying safe from Jaime’s attacks.
    Jaime is still the better character in my opinion, being both the obvious showy villain and a believable, flawed, interesting and entertaining person.
    I may have to read his series, that was some wonderful writing by the author.

  358. Coady says:

    Just No!
    Kvothe would epicly PAWN Jaime Lannister. I have read both the name of the wind and a song of ice and fire and kvothe is SO much more epic than jaime Lannister.
    P.S.: George, Stop writing these fucking awesome comments and go finish your book!

  359. Lynon says:

    I’m just happy that the fanboys have put their fanboyism aside and voted Jaime into a commanding lead. I mean, you may love Kvothe, but if you’re honest with yourself, he has no chance against Jaime. 😛

  360. Furrymoose says:

    Dang it. Well it looks like we’re gonna have the “stump bowl” after all. (I forgot who said that in the other match but it fits.) I had been waiting for a Kvothe vs. Rand match since the second round and wrote my own write-up and everything. Darn. I guess I don’t get to use that anymore. Well, I could do one for Jaime vs. Rand, but lost of people have already done the same- Balefire!. I was kinda hoping for an exciting finals match. Maybe Suvudu can make something with what little they have to work with. Too bad about Kvothe. After that incredible comeback I’m sad to see Jaime come back on top. It was fun while it lasted, and I’ll be happy to help Rand to victory in the end.

  361. siimen says:

    How can you say so?
    In my mind it is exactly vice versa.
    Jaime is awesome, but his chances against anyone, who is at least somehow decent fighter are zero.
    Or is it some kind of smart irony?

  362. Lynon says:

    It was supposed to be some kind of smart irony, but I guess it failed. 🙁

  363. Wafaa says:

    Yes it is 🙂
    And, this is gonna ruin my day 😐 I really wanted Kvothe to win. I really dislike Jaime.

  364. siimen says:

    O’god, it is

  365. Furrymoose says:

    I’m completely with you on this one. How does Kvothe have the “fanboyism” on his side and Jaime the skill? Jaime has no reason to win this whereas Kvothe has every reason. Plus, GRRM has all the fanboys. Kvothe was lucky to make it this close against them. Ah well. I guess it doesn’t matter now.

  366. AHEM says:

    I’m disappointed. Rothfuss’s write up was much better and more creative, but it looks like Jaime’s fanboyism pulled through anyway. I guess the finale is either going to be death by balefire in the opening seconds or Jaime’s victory through sheer fanboyism.
    Dammit, George, why did you have to write that?

  367. Lynon says:

    Well, as has been mentioned, my point was meant to be ironic. I know as much as anyone that Jaime has a massive fanboy backing, seeing as I myself am a Jaime fanboy in my spare time.

  368. lakesidey says:

    That was close indeed. Don’t know whether to feel happy or not, but since I voted for Jaime, I guess I will. Nice write-up by Patrick though!
    Plans for this week:
    – Get some work done (been putting off mucho stuff for over 3 days, not least due to this semifinal!)
    – Write a scenario for the finals (but whom should I support? I’m, pardon the expression, stumped!)
    – Get hold of NotW if it is even available here. And spend a day with some cold coffee and a good book. Ahhhh, small pleasures! 🙂
    @Suvudu overlords – any chance of a 3rd place playoff? :o)

  369. Joe Dalton says:

    As for Temeraire, the write-up didn’t change the winner 🙂
    the fanbase prevails :p

  370. Jeff says:

    I’m confused why, when Rothfuss posts his writeup, the Kvothe surge is the result of said character’s super-awesome-skills-of-some-kind, but when Martin posts his then the surge is just evil fanboyism.
    Besides, was Rothfuss’s writeup really that creative and unpredictable? I mean we’ve all seen “Princess Bride,” right?

  371. Raven says:

    The context of your comment made no sense. Seed was replying to someone that was complaining about how overpowered Rand was. That person said that Rand was uninteresting because of that. Seed was defended Rand. Now, you just proved the other guys point.

  372. Dark angel says:

    huh, this was close. I was actually scared for Jaime for a moment or two, but sudden surge in votes was expected – a lot of ppl were holding off their votes until Martin wrote his point of view and then picked a side. 😉
    Go, Jaime, go Jaime! 🙂

  373. Raven says:

    Just thinking in terms of physics, once a chip is taken out of a sword (could be done from one blow, considering Valerian steel is super sharp and somewhat magical), that chip would become the weak point. Any time their blades connected thereafter, there would be stress on the weak point. Any tiny fissures in the metal that had been created when the sword was chipped would spread, especially if Jaime hit near to the original site.
    It’s possible. And trust me, Martin has done a lot of research on medieval stuff.

  374. Russ Miller says:

    This bout is a tie, since neither author seems capable of ending a story.
    Perhaps they are both gobbled up by the luck dragon from “The Neverending Story?”

  375. Amen-Ra says:

    The Sword of the Morning Author Dayne, but he is only mentioned in the book. The Hound, and the Mountain that Rides are all top tier, along with the Red viper of Dorn, Baristan Selmy,Braun ( a personal favorite of mine), Drogo, The young Robert, The Dragon Night, the Half Hand, The night of flowers and his older brother, and soon to be John Snow. I would be interested in seeing what Hotah and Darkstar can do also.
    To put Jamie Lanister in without his sword hand is a strange joke. thats why I choose to pretend like he has his sword hand, or that he can fight just as good with his left as his right.
    Could that be Suvudu’s way of fixing the tournament. They did not put any of characters in with such and obvious inadequacy.

  376. Jakob Lightbringer says:

    This is a battle that could only end in a cliff-hanger followed by a five year hiatus while we wait for the authors to put the finishing touches on the next episodes, which, according to unsubstantiated rumors, have been mostly complete for a while now. (i.e. they battled all day and night… through summer and winter .. even Westerosi winters which can last several years… but still no victor could be determined)

  377. SumoMonkey says:

    I think Kvothe’s sword sounds very similar to how Valyrian steel is formed and don’t think it would break. Listen to the description. “He drew the sword without a flourish. It shone a dull grey white in the room’s autumn light. It had the appearance of a new sword. It was not notched or rusted. There were no bright scratches skittering along its dull grey side. But though it was unmarred, it was old. And while it was obviously a sword, it was not a familiar shape. At least no one in this town would have found it familiar. It looked as if an alchemist had distilled a dozen swords, and when the crucible had cooled this was lying in the bottom: a sword of pure form. It was slender and graceful. It was deadly as sharp stone beneath swift water. Kvothe held it a moment. His hand did not shake.

  378. Coady says:

    I agree, Jaime should not have been able to snap kvothe’s sword as relativly easily as he did. Besides, kvothe was said to be a swordsman who was skilled enough to kill an angel outside of the Eolin, JAime Lannister would be no challenge in comparioson.

  379. SciFi Reader says:

    This is all bull crap. Popularity contest only and not based on the characters in the books. When we left Jamie, he still couldn’t fight his way out of wet paper bag with his left hand. Should have lost in the first round. Oh well, since Jamie will NOT be in Martin’s next book – we will have to wait about 6-7 more years to find out if he is as good with his left hand as he was with his right.

  380. Hedge says:

    Duh it is a popularity contest. We have to vote on who wins, how is it not a popularity contest?

  381. Inyx says:

    Lame. This is total bull crap…Putting Kvothe up against Jamie is like putting Gandalf against a crippled hooker. Really? I’ll give Jamie strong and pretty…And ALMOST completely heartless, but Kvothe could learn basics of a language in a day, dabbles in the arcane, knows the “name” of things, is a master musician, and I’m betting has that awkward nerdy hotness that chicks dig. (Or at least this chic). Bah! Bad form…

  382. CezeN says:

    At this point, I have no clue who to vote for in the finals.
    On one hand, you have this weak, apparently douchey character who only wins matches by the fact that he’s weak, and the fanboys feel sorry for him because this, and douchey, which his fanboys also like for some reason.
    Meaning, realistically he wouldn’t win any of his fights unless his opponent and wasn’t actually fighting him or was just standing still as sometimes portrayed by fans when outlining situations where he’d actually win. Similar to Cthulu in that one writeup.
    Logically, he doesn’t deserve to win – nor deserve my vote.
    On the otherhand, you have Rand AL Thor.
    Catchphrase slogan: “Balefire bitches!”
    Overpowered and cheap as fck.
    Has to be one of the cheapest characters I’ve ever heard of. I mean, this guy has some type of awkwardly spelled luck thing going his way AND the ability to erase people from existence everywhere in time.
    Sooo broken, even the Suvudu writers succumb to his overbearing level cheapness – and wrote their last writeup mocking the fans with basically their
    “tl;dr Fight!Balefire.The End.” tasteless solution to every opponent he encounters.
    He wins through sheer cheapness.
    So, do I vote for the weak douche warrior who wins simply through fervent fanyboyism and underdoggedness, or vote for the broken Juggernaut who wins through the combination of cheap instant kill moves, fanboyism, and overdoggedness? This is keeping in mind the fact that the first’s author doesn’t seem to even put creativity or effort or the basic research necessary to learn the name of the Waystone Inn or proper characterization, into his write-ups.
    Both don’t deserve the vote, which one is the lesser of two evils?

  383. Anon1 says:

    Wow, this thread sure is full of a bunch of whiny, ungrateful adolescents.
    Both Rothfuss and Martin took the time to write some interesting little one-off’s for their characters. How do their fans react? “That’s so unrealistic!” and “Both can never finish their stories anyway!” etc.
    With fans like those, who needs fans?
    For the record, I voted for Jaime. Why? Because I like Jaime. Yes, Virginia, this is a popularity contest. Anyone who thinks they can make this cage match logical or scientific in any way is a moron.
    Get over yourselves. This cage match is just fun and we’re lucky so many of our favorite authors decided to participate.

  384. siimen says:

    Well, I’d put it this way – G.R.R.M. was so convinced that he remembers inn’s name correctly that he did not bother to check => he has probably read Name of the Wind few times before.
    Yeah, this write-up was not as good as those 2 previous. But don’t be mad at George R.R. Martin for being in the hurry – Jaime was, in fact, losing this fight, after all!

  385. Furrymoose says:

    If it’s that sharp, then why not just cut right through the whole blade in the first hit? Also, if you have the chip in the blade, and you hit is somewhere else, you would make a new chip. There wouldn’t be as much pressure on the old chip. So I guess it would work if you had a large chip in the blade and then hit it with the flat, because then all the pressure would go on the old chip, not the new one. But thanks for explaining that.

  386. TheSmilingKnight says:

    Thanks for the write-up, GRRM. However, you might need to put a bit more effort into a scenario for Jaime defeating Rand next round. Rand has tons of fans (though I can’t imagine why, I’ve read most of the books, and after the fourth one or so they become coma inducing tests of endurance), and he also has too much power. Incestuous Knight over Polygamous Whiner! Victory to Lannister!
    Also, I just ordered NotW from the library because of these matches. I can’t wait.

  387. DiapDealer says:

    I find it all hilarious!
    The contest.
    The matchups.
    The anger.
    The angst.
    The cries of “Fanboy!”
    The cries for “logic”
    The cries for “can’t we all just get along?”
    The authors taking time to contribute.
    Thank you so much Suvudu for giving me this soap opera of a geek-fest free of charge! I would have paid good money 🙂

  388. A Jock says:

    Oh my God some of you are SERIOUS.

  389. archon says:

    Jaime without a doubt would not win if it were about actual power… but Rand is one of the cheesiest Steven Segal characters of all time, and I’m never going to vote for a cheesy-ass Steven Segal character. Besides, everyone knows that Rand will triumph in the end of his series (benefits of being a Steve Segal character), does anyone know for sure that Jaime will make it to the end of his series? Nope. Jaime deserves this more than Stev… er… Rand.

  390. Nymeria says:

    Well, naturally I voted Jaime, because he emanates awesomeness and

  391. Durwen says:

    I so agree with you.

  392. Neris Veran says:

    This should not have happened.
    I read part of A Game of Thrones. It was absolutely awful. The wretched thing fell apart when I was only half-way through the book, the plot was pointless and boring, the characters were all creeps, and there was no witty dialogue or any other redeeming qualities.
    And when I say a book is bad, I know what I am talking about. I read The Silmarilian six times (not actually bad, just boring. I should probably read it again). I read the entire Winds in the Forelands Chronicles (the author got bored with the last two and slaughtered everyone). I read Eragon and Eldest, the epic Starwars fafictions (but not Brisinger. It made my eyes hurt). I read the original Dragonlance and several later spin off series.
    All of the above books, in comparison with A Game of Thrones, are gripping, entertaining, and witty. Even Eragon!
    At least Kvothe has a sense of humor…
    (For a good read, investigate Jennifer Fallon, Second Son’s trilogy or Hythrun Chronicles. Or both. Her characters are definitely NOT Mary Sues)

  393. Durwen says:

    You’re kidding, right?
    I mean… Sweet Zombie Jesus.
    Please tell me you are joking.

  394. heritor says:

    Rothfuss’ write up was much better than Martin’s. Not that i think that reflects their abilities as authors, but one write up is better than the other. Also, i really hope that is a clue about Bast…i am looking forward to The Wise Man’s Fears so much it causes my thumbs to shake. A very good write up. Kvothe should win if we look at it it properly. There are three factors to consider. Ability: Kvothe wins as he has many assets and Lannister has a sword, essentially. Character: Although Lannister has his badassness Kvothe is not lacking in luck badly enough for it to make any difference. Popularity: Lannister wins as despite the popularity of THe Name of the Wind Lannister has an entire amazing series.
    This is a popularity contest so Lannister wins – shame really.

  395. Furrymoose says:

    Hmm… I was wondering if I should read a Song of Ice and Fire. I’ve heard a lot about it, some very positive, others incredibly negative. Mayhaps I’ll try it after I finish the Wheel of Time (which could take like the rest of my life; holy cow those books are long) and some other series I started.

  396. Cloverhook says:

    Wow… What’s with the haters?
    A book is a book, a story is a story. One person’s least favorite book is another person’s favorite. It’s sad how many professed lovers of literature are so quick to condemn a novel as poor writing.
    GRRM’s books are dark, grim, and relatively slow-paced at times, yes. But this doesn’t reflect negatively on the series in the least. While dark fantasy may not be everyone’s cup of tea, I think it’s obvious from the amount of fans GRRM has brought to this competition that there ARE people who very much enjoy it. If you read more than half the book, or, well, if you pay attention to absolutely anything in the first half, even… you’ll realize that what GRRM does — and does so well — is craft a story full of intrigue and drama, exciting enough in those respects to capture the hearts of a great many readers.
    Jaime is an absolutely despicable man in much of the series, it’s true. Tyrion’s even worse, arguably. And yet, they’re my two favorite characters… I hold Tyrion higher than -any- other fantasy character, in fact. ‘But why?’ I can hear you asking already… ‘They’re such terrible people! They do such horrible things!’
    Why? Because while they’re not real, they’re realistic. They have definite pitfalls, definite weaknesses, definite egos and superegos and Ids. They’re ‘bad’ people, yes… They’re evil, arguably (though evil depends on perspective). But, refreshingly enough, they’re not ‘stupid evil’. They don’t proclaim ‘Death to all villagers!’ and start laying waste at random. They’re interested in their own survival and upward progression in society, their own ‘honor’ and glory. The ‘bad guys’ in novels, and even reality, have always fascinated me, simply because it’s such a mystery what makes them tick, what makes them do such horrible things. GRRM succeeds in providing interesting, plausible characters that fit fantastically well in the dark universe he’s created.
    I think it’s obvious, by now, that I like GRRM’s writing. So don’t say I shouldn’t like it. I hated the Simarilian, but I’m mature and well-read enough — or so I like to think — to know that it’s not bad writing, it’s just not -my- preferred kind of writing.
    Just my two cents.
    Also, while I know the examples I used are direct replies to Neris Veran’s post, I want to stress that by no means am I responding or arguing his points alone. His is just the most recent comment I’ve seen trash-talking a respectable author’s works.
    That said, thanks again, Suvudu, for a sweet tournament. 😛

  397. DreadedBeauty says:

    Alas, Kvothe! Your fan base was not enough to save you, though we tried! I only hope that when Jaime beats Rand he doesn’t remember those of us who stood against him for your sake.

  398. Durwen says:

    For crying out loud, the name of the book is The Silmarillion. Not Silmarilian, not Simarilian. The Silmarillion. Geez.
    Yes, I’ve read it several times too. So what.

  399. siimen says:

    And here I was, thinking: “Hm. This is new. I almost thought that he/she was talking about “Silmarillion”, but the second one also wrote something like “Simarlian”. There can’t be 2 people so misinformed, so this must be another book. “Simarilian”. Hm-hm. Never heard about this book. Wonder, is it any good… Maybe I should google it?”

  400. Durwen says:

    Maybe you should,since that Silmarilian book apparently gives you the ability to tell good writing from bad.

  401. Gregor says:

    If you found The Silmarillion boring, why did you read it 6 times? If I find a book boring, I count it as bad, personally…
    I never made it through ‘The Wheel of Time’, before deciding I disliked it, so I cant reallty refute your anti-AsoIaF rant.
    Except to say, I really, really doubt you know what your talking about…

  402. Rick says:

    Very Well said Clover, personally I have found GRRM’s work to be the best literature I have ever read. I love the fact that the characters are realistic much the same as yourself. My favourite is also tyrion because no matter how vile the character can be where his enemies or family are concerned george also shows us the other side to him and no character is made completely evil. I especially liked the parts when he became the hand and tried to deliver justice and also to protect sansa stark.
    The second thing I love about the series is the very very limited use of magic of any description. The only real things you see are prophecy and foresight which means he focuses alot more on the people playing the game through spies and informants.
    If people dont like a book its simply their own opinions but doesnt mean its a poor book. The sales figures and fan basis for all these authors proves otherwise. My self I dont want to read WoT as rand realy doesnt appeal to me but obviously the books have done well.
    Thats why imo this will always be a popularity contest and nothing more because none of the wolds created mesh neatly with the others. Its impossible to judge a balanced match between two characters when one is a magic powerhouse and the other comes from a world were magic doesnt even exist. As long as people have a favourite character they will always come up with a way for them to win and the opposition will always point out how their favourite would win. Personally I’ve been pulling for Jaime since the first round and I will continue to do so.

  403. Fiirvoen says:

    You know what is REALLY hilarious about this whole cage match thing? Fanboys calling each other Fanboys as an insult. I’m pretty sure every single person on this site is a Fanboy, so those of you that like to throw that word around to discredit those whom you don’t agree with, please stop. These comment sections are just turning into a swirling vortex of irony. As awesome as that sounds on paper, its just annoying in real life.

  404. DiapDealer says:

    “These comment sections are just turning into a swirling vortex of irony. As awesome as that sounds on paper, its just annoying in real life.”
    Oh, no. It’s just as awesome in real life. It makes me giggle uncontrollably when one fanboy has the nerve to drop the f-bomb on another fanboy… and I like to giggle uncontrollably.
    So please don’t take away my swirling vortex of irony.

  405. siimen says:

    I am no fanboy.
    You know, being female and all.

  406. Cloverhook says:

    LOL, pardon me for not remembering the exact spelling of a book I read some years ago and haven’t glanced at since.
    Still doesn’t change the fact that one man’s ‘trash’ fiction is another man’s treasure, so my point stands, regardless of my ignorance about the spelling of one of Tolkien’s more obscurely spelled novels 😛

  407. Durwen says:

    I’ll admit, bitchy comment was bitchy.
    But if you are going to brag about having read a book, not mispelling the title is a bit of a must, IMO.
    OTOH, your point stands and is perfectly valid and I totally agree with you on that account.

  408. Amen-Ra says:

    I strongly disagree with the statement that Jamie would be no match for Kvothe since you don’t know how well that angel could fight in the 1st place. I don’t think Kvothe’s sword that his sword would break, but I do think he is out of practice.
    Jamie fighting with his right hand would beat Kvothe in a streight up fight hands down. He is fully armored and a killing machine that only few warriors could match. Kvothe would be wise to use magic. If he could still some of his hair or blood, he could use sympathy on him. Or he could just get straight to the point and use his naming power. Bottom line though is that if it came to Swords and IF Jamie is as good with his left as his right hand then Jamie wins. Jamie would probably kill 3 or 4 of those angels you speak of.

  409. amen-ra says:

    I question why they would enter him in the competition handicapped so. Don’t be mad at Jamie. Of-course its a popularity contest. If it was not all of your contestants would be hanging on the Shrike tree. As far as I am concerned Jamie has his right hand and this is not BS. I rather enjoy it.

  410. NR says:

    Um… I may not be qualified to say this since to be honest with you I’ve only ever read like one of GRRM’s books… but did his description of how the fight might go just seem a bit… flaccid? I just felt like Rothfuss added some serious character nuance and had an intriguing plot, and GRRM’s plan of attack was to just get them into a duel and then bail out by using his character’s ‘special sword’ without really allowing the opposition to shine or show his own skills etc. (apart from having a human hand-shiled).
    Not meaning to be bitchy, and I’m not trying to say it’s in any way an absolute opinion that everybody else has to agree with… just wondering if I was the only one who thought that…

  411. Amen-Ra says:

    I know Mike Tyson’s name. That don’t mean I will beat him in a fight. LOL. Oh, I’m awkward and nerdy too. Doubt that would help my chances. Besides. What is that quote of Jamie’s. Run a sword though them and they all Die.

  412. Jay says:

    Pat Rothfuss wrote an interesting story highlighting the character of the people involved. It was interesting, seemed true to both characters, and clever.
    GRRM wrote… Jaime killing an innkeeper. With only two siblings to help. It was only moderately better than the gloss the guys at Suvudu wrote up in the first place.
    Meh. ‘salright. I wasn’t looking forward to the wankery of Kvothe vs Rand al’Thor. I was ticked enough at some of the results of the first round, but once Ged got knocked out of the fight, it became hard to care about the results.

  413. Coady says:

    Really? First of all Jaimie is a badass, I totally agree with you on the point that he would win if he was as good with his left as he was with his right, but if you remember the end of the most recent book then you will see that he (as someone else wrote) “couldn’t cut his way out of a paper bag” so I hardly think he could kill one angle let alone three or four. Second THIS IS A FUCKING ANGEL WERE TALKING ABOUT of course he/she is going to be an awesome duelist, and not a pushover. Thirdly Kvothe may be out of practice but if you think of the name of the wind you will remember that even though he hasn’t used a sword in a while he was still able to hold off 4-5 of those spider things that were ridiculosly fast, and they had hm surrounded. Fially I would like to than you for your comment if it does cause me to rage at you.

  414. Cy says:

    Looks like I’m a little late to the game… the polls are closed and (unsurprisingly) Jaime has won. However (surprisingly), not by as big a margin as one would think– the final tally is 6883 Kvothe vs 7898 Jaime. Well done, dear Kvothe, you one-book-wonder. Well done, indeed.
    And franti–sorry, but all those arguments (from others too) about how only Jaime would stand a chance against Rand Al’Thor in the final match? Nope: He won with 5603 votes to Drizzt’s 3291.
    In other words, EITHER Kvothe or Jaime would’ve beaten Rand. Kvothe was robbed, getting knocked out in the semi-final round. Suvudu–blast your tourney bracket! Kvothte vs Jaime should’ve been the Final!!! XP

  415. Amen-Ra says:

    How is it that you could read the Silmarillion 6 times but cant get through half of A Game of Thrones? That’s like saying you watched 2001 six times and could not get through half of the matrix. I must also ask the question of why you would read a book that you thought was boring six times?
    A game of thrones was an excellent book, but I would not expect anyone who read the silmarillion 6 times, but did not really like it, to have the good judgment needed to recognize how good A game of thrones was.
    Furthermore, many of the characters are dispicable on the surface, but you are judging them from the wrong lens. They come from an exceedingly harsh and unforgiving world. Of-course the choices they make will be different then yours or mines.
    I loved the characters of A Game of Thrones. Especially Tyrian and Arya. Sometimes characters in the book do despicable things, but when you consider the whole story and the implications behind their actions and their motivations you begin to understand why they make the decisions that they make.
    Dude. You did not like the Dialogue! The Dialogue!! I think that was one of the strongest parts of the books. But then again you did say,
    “And when I say a book is bad, I know what I am talking about. I read The Silmarilian six times (not actually bad, just boring. I should probably read it again)”.
    You read it six times and you still cant figure out whether you like it or not. Game of Thrones is an excellent book. In my own opinion I believed it was better than the Name of the Wind and I read and enjoyed both books. I understand that everything is not for everyone but don’t trash one of my favorite books because your upset that Kvothe got beat. And pleas don’t try to pass yourself off as some kind of authority on the matter when you lacked the ability and the foresight to recognize and read one of the greatest books of your own times.

  416. Anya says:

    Well I’m glad I got to see a showdown of write-ups between two authors that I’ve come to really enjoy.
    Sadly, I enjoyed GRRM’s less than Rothfuss’. It seemed too arbitrary to me… Still it was a good effort, clearly he went to the trouble of investigating tNotW, and writing it managed to rise ASOIF’s fanbase into voting (like Rotfuss’ managed to, earlier).
    Still, Kvothe should have won. He’s not perfect, in fact he is a bit of an ass (thinking himself so much smarter than others, which bites him in the ass more than a few times) and he doesn’t have access to his sympathy and naming (as rothfuss pointed out)but he is the character that should have won.
    Of course since Jaime killed Kvothe, they will drink the wine Bast offered them, and will all three of them die.
    I feel slightly sorry for Tyrion. 😉

  417. Amen-Ra says:

    I choose to ignore the fact that they took Jamie’s left hand off. I have stated before that any average fighter would have beaten Jamie with this obvious handicap. I have stated this several times before. I totaly ignore the handicap because its my perogitive and I think that this was a ruse by Suvudu to fix the fight and make it more difficult for Jamie to win the tournament. Notice they don’t list Kvothes lack of sympathy on the least of weaknesses. Or the fact that Dumbledore is technically Dead.
    As to this mess about an angel. I agree with what Jamie said on the Suvudu right up. A lot of that stuff is exaggeration.

  418. Amen-Ra says:

    If he does not have access to naming or sympathy then he does not stand a chance. Then agin if Jamie does not have access to his right hand why is he in the tournament in the 1st place. Can anyone please explain that to me.

  419. Cy says:

    P.S. Patrick Rothfuss’s write-up was fantastic! Uh, well, it ended up as Bast beating Jaime, but that line about how he’d take a drink of poison for Kvothe any day (and the somewhat ambiguous fate of Bast afterward) made it really kind of poignant. Great write-up, Pat–and yay for Bast!

  420. Amen-Ra says:

    You are being bitchy. I agree that Rothfuss rite up was better. I liked what the Suvudu people did more than I liked what GRRM did, but he gave Kvothe his due. The only thing I did not think was believable was Jamie breaking his Sword. I don’t know much about that Sword of Kvothe’s but I doubt it would break.
    Write ups asside I read both books. The Name of the Wind was a good book. I would recomend it, and I cant wait to read the next book. A Game of thrones was one of my favorite books of all times.

  421. Anya says:

    Jaime can fight with his off-hand, just no where near as well as with his main one.
    Similarly, Kvothe can fight even without his sympathy and naming (he saves the chronicler from those… demon-like things I forget the name of) using only an iron bar. Neither character is at their prime, but they have a fighting chance.

  422. Susanne says:

    I am having such a hard time waiting for the book to come out

  423. Rhappie says:

    Could it be that Amen-Ra is a fan boy? He’s clearly bias (all of this ranting about Drizzt vs. the Shrike, still) but it almost seems as though he’s rooting for Tyrion and Arya against Rand as opposed to Jaime…
    Amen-Ra my dear fool, I daresay there is NO method to this madness. You are but a literal manifestation of the completely mental (and yet quite enjoyable) Suvudu cage match.
    May the Match continue, and the best (or perhaps the most crazy) contestant win.

  424. Yasmina says:

    I love how everyone takes everything so seriously and personally 🙂
    That’s the best part of these comments.
    As for book sales being telling of quality, let me just say, “Twilight.”
    No offense to those who enjoyed reading about angsty teenage vampires.
    I haven’t actually read A Game of Thrones, so I won’t get into the Kvothe vs. Jamie argument at this time.
    Although I personally think that Kvothe is awesome.

  425. Tal says:

    Yes. You appear to have enjoyed EVERY trashy fantasy text in existence, whilst relegating any of even reasonable quality to the “boring” camp.
    How old are you, now?

  426. Pandora says:

    I was disappointed to read GRRM’s account of the fight, especially considering that he could have done so much better. Placed next to Rothfuss’s writeup, it’s glaringly obvious that he perhaps didn’t think about it as much as he could. And he used his characters is such an unrealistic way. (Jamie and Tyrion and Cersei ALL working together? Really?) I suppose if anyone has the right to do such a thing, it’s the author, but when Rothfuss uses this as a chance to give an insight into Bast, it seems very hollow. Oh well. I suppose I shouldn’t be complaining too much as this whole cage match business is an elaborate fanfiction, albeit an interesting one.

  427. Bludvein says:

    Maybe its just me, but i couldnt stand Martin’s books. I got maybe a 1/4 of the way (and that’s probably a generous estimate)before i couldnt read any more. Its a bloody depressing book with characters that you almost have to hate.
    I guess some people like that sort of thing, but cmon, Jaime of all people. He threw a kid out of a window to protect his secret, which is…..wait for it…hes screwing his own sister! /facepalm. I read fantasy books as a way to lift my mood when ive got nothing better to do, and instead I ended up with a third rate soap opera. The only positive thing that can be said about the series from my point of view is that its written well.

  428. AO says:

    I think for this contest, we’re supposed to assume Jaime is at his best. If it’s supposed to be when we last saw the character, several of these characters wouldn’t be able to be in the tournament because, well, they’re dead. So I’m assuming rather than reanimating their corpses, we are supposed to entertain the notion that it’s all these characters at their peak.

  429. Neris Veran says:

    {How is it that you could read the Silmarillion 6 times but cant get through half of A Game of Thrones? That’s like saying you watched 2001 six times and could not get through half of the matrix. I must also ask the question of why you would read a book that you thought was boring six times?}
    First of all, I’m a Tolkien fanatic. Quenta Silmarillion* was boring because it was arranged in history text book format and spanned several ages of Middle Earth. I read it in order to better understand LotR (I’m now reading the History of Middle-Earth: the Lost Road and Other Writings, which may or may not be essential to understanding Tolkien, but oh well). You try memorizing a gazillion years of fictional history just so you can apply it to something else. 🙂 I bet you can’t do it without rereading the book once in a while. (also, I haven’t seen 2001 or the Matrix. Come up with a better simile)
    {Furthermore, many of the characters are dispicable on the surface, but you are judging them from the wrong lens. They come from an exceedingly harsh and unforgiving world. Of-course the choices they make will be different then yours or mines.}
    So what if they come from a harsh world? They are still creeps. And Elezaar the Fool (another dwarf, and enslaved at that) was loveable because though he was self-centered and vindictive, he still can inspire pity. Not just for him, but his master, who though also vindictive and cruel, learned a lot from her slave and mourned his death like she had no other’s. Elezaar is much more realistic, in my ever-so-humble opinion… Elezaar>Tyrian.
    (sorry, couldn’t resist. Bugs bunny made me do it.)
    {I loved the characters of A Game of Thrones. Especially Tyrian and Arya. Sometimes characters in the book do despicable things, but when you consider the whole story and the implications behind their actions and their motivations you begin to understand why they make the decisions that they make.}
    See above. As for Arya, she wasn’t a creep, but that could be because she was an eight-year-old and therefore not yet corrupted by all her canniving relatives, at least that is the hope.
    {Dude. You did not like the Dialogue! The Dialogue!! I think that was one of the strongest parts of the books.}
    The Dialogue! The Dialogue!! (in a loud, high pitched squealy voice–the gremlins have me today… O.O) Here’s some decent dialogue:
    “They ALL want to see me?”
    “Everyone of them, my lord. And they all claim it’s a matter of life or death.”
    “I’ve never even heard of half these people. Who is Master Galen?”
    “He represents the Bollow Chamber of Commerce.”
    “What’s his problem?”
    “There is some concern among his members you might prefer to deal with foreign suppliers…given your nationality.”
    “So he’s demanding a meeting to make sure the Church doesn’t start ordering vegetables from Devyn?”
    “I think that is his major concern, my lord.”
    “Then get rid of him. Who is Lord Parquette?”
    “Ah, Lord Parquette owns most of the vinyards around Bollow.”
    Tell him I don’t drink. Who’s next on the list?”
    (Jennifer Fallon: Lord of the Shadows, chapter 43) It’s certainly not the best bit of dialogue in the book, but it’s the first bit I flipped to and considerably better than anything I recall from A Game of Thrones. I left out dialogue tags for simplicity’s sake.
    {You read it six times and you still cant figure out whether you like it or not. Game of Thrones is an excellent book. In my own opinion I believed it was better than the Name of the Wind and I read and enjoyed both books. I understand that everything is not for everyone but don’t trash one of my favorite books because your upset that Kvothe got beat. And pleas don’t try to pass yourself off as some kind of authority on the matter when you lacked the ability and the foresight to recognize and read one of the greatest books of your own times.}
    I really don’t think I LIKE the Silmarillion. It is a reference book, just like the dictionary (do you LIKE the dictionary?). Second of all, I’m not upset that Kvothe was beaten, since he should have knuckeled under to Aslan. I’m upset that Jaime Lannister WON against ANYBODY!!! I hated A Game of Thrones almost as much as I disliked the Arabian Nightmare, which you must admit has a very catchy title, even if the book itself was the single most frustrating thing in existence. I threw it down the stairs when I finished, not because it was bad, or boring, but because it ended with an enigma! It was awful… A Game of Thrones I did not even bother to finish because I was bored sensless and the plot wasn’t progressing any faster than granite erodes. I wish the author HAD become bored with his own series, just so it could reach a satisfying resolution before the thirtieth century.
    And when did I ever pose as an authority on the matter? I’m just a geeky fan (just not of A Game of Thrones). And what does foresight have to do with it? I be confused.
    I thank you kindly for taking an interest in my case though.
    [“no I don’t”
    “shut up, yes I do.”]
    WARNING: possessed by Smeagol, but not high nor drunk, unless it be on milk and pie.
    [and fish!!!!
    no, not fish! And especially not raw.]
    *I’m still not entirely sure what happens in Ainulindale and Valaquenta. Akallabeth was just too boring. I skipped it the last few times.
    PS: @Tal. If I deigned give my opinion of EVERY trashy novel I have EVER read, you would be reading a novel my own devising. At least a thousand pages. Maybe even a series. And I did not say that those I listed were good, except for the Jennifer Fallon reference at the end.
    And since you asked, I’m exactly 8 years old, just to show you how incredibly mature I really am… 🙂 I kid of course; I’m really 8 and a half.
    PPS:As to those who criticize my spelling, yes I was wrong, but English spelling is even worse than English grammar, which seems to be almost a more common problem on this forum.
    Fun Fact: “ghoti” could quite reasonably be pronounced “fish:” “gh” as in “rough,” “o” as in “women,” and “ti” as in “emotion.”
    PPPS: If you take everything I say entirely seriously and make reply accordingly, you shall be guilty of homicide; I will die laughing…

  430. lakesidey says:

    “And when I say a book is bad, I know what I am talking about.”
    Which means the rest of us don’t? Why, thank you! (‘How to win friends and influence people’ in action, folks)
    “I kid of course; I’m really 8 and a half.”
    I think he meant your physical age. not your mental one. From the statement quoted earlier (and for that matter, if you liked Eragon and didn’t like the Game of Thrones) we already have a fair estimate of the latter.
    “All of the above books, in comparison with A Game of Thrones, are gripping, entertaining, and witty.”
    (Yeah, and so is the “Enchanted Faraway Tree” series. How’d we miss that?)
    aSoIaF not witty? Let’s me also quote, from memory…
    “This is Jarl, Val’s latest plaything”
    “I am no man’s plaything”
    “And Val is no man. I thought you’d have noticed that by now!”
    I can think of a few criticisms of “A Game of Thrones” (though I loved the book, make no mistake) but a plot proceeding as slow as granite erodes is not one of them. Unless you expect your plot-line to be not more than 140 characters long and can’t stand to see protagonists bleed and die like real people.
    “And when did I ever pose as an authority on the matter?”
    Well, a statement like ‘And when I say a book is bad, I know what I am talking about’ is usually a good indicator, wouldn’t you think? But perhaps we all just misinterpreted it.
    (But jeeeeeez, if I had read the dictionary six times I’d know the spelling of dictionary at least!)

  431. lakesidey says:

    This is for all those trying to make up your mind whether to read GRRMartin…
    I would suggest you lay hands on “the Hedge Knight” (a short novella set on the same world about a hundred years earlier, first published in the original “Legends” anthology if I recall correctly) and try it out – it’s a good starting point in my opinion.

  432. Durwen says:

    Forgive me if I laugh at you. I mean… what kind of entitlement is having read the Silmarillion and the History of Middle Earth? I’ve read those too. And the Unfinished Tales. And the Letters. And several encyclopaedias and bestiaries and atlases and whatnot. And some other Tolkien books not Middle Earth related (Farmer Giles of Ham, Tree and Leaf). A few years ago I was one of those nerds arguing over whether or not Balrogs have real wings and/or can fly (which remains unclear) and Legolas’s hair color (undefined).
    Does that mean I have a better claim than you to knowing what is boring and what not?
    Because let me tell you, your choice of literature leaves a bit to be desired. I mean… Eragon? Really? That thing is so derivative it’s practically fanfiction. And don’t get me started on the Dragonlance.
    At the end, everything amounts to the same thing: You didn’t like A Game of Thrones. That’s your prerogative. But not liking something doesn’t automatically make it bad. It makes it not to your taste.
    BTW, if you want a better understanding of Tolkien’s lore, try the Letters and Tree and Leaf. They contain some really interesting insights. I can’t vouch for them not being boring, though, since they are… well, letters, and a book with an essay and a poem.

  433. Gregior says:

    ‘do you LIKE the dictionary?’
    Not really, and I certainly wouldn’t read it 6 times. Why did you decide to read your ‘dictionary’ 6 times? I can understand struggling your way through it once to get a better idea of Tolkiens world, but SIX!?

  434. Neris Veran says:

    @ Durwen I’ve already read those. I put off reading the History since I’m not entirely sure reading the works that he already threw out really helps. And you should know, balrog’s wings don’t matter anymore, but Tom Bombadil is still going strong. (lol)
    @Gregior That’s the point. I’m glad you comprehend my nonsense so well, considering I was writing in the wee hours of the morning. As for reading the Silmarillion six times, I agree that it was a bad idea. A few years ago, I developed a bad habit of treating it like a book rather than an encyclopedia, so everytime I wanted to figure something out, I ended up rereading the thing.

  435. PK says:

    Gods I really hate you people. It’s for fun!
    A question though. Does the seven exist in the matchup, and the same question goes for the creator and the dark one? If Rand fight in Westeros, how can he wield saidin where saidin doesn’t exist?

  436. Gregor says:

    Fair enough, I understand the compulsion to read through books again for no real reason. Seriously though, you should give aSoIaF another try, some of my favourite books I’ve hated at first read and loved when I went back to them and gave them a chance. I promise you you’ll like it =D
    On an entirely different note, has anyone from Suvudu seen GRRM’s challenge?
    You can find it here –
    but I’ll copy what he said
    ‘Jaime’s last match was fought on Kvothe’s home turf. An away game. Therefore Jaime demands that this final be played out on his own ground, in the tourney grounds outside King’s Landing, according to the customs and traditions of Westeros.
    And should the wizards of Suvudu grant THAT request, he further demands that this be made a TRIAL OF SEVEN, to honor the Seven Gods. His right to demand such a format is sanctified by ancient Westerosi custom… and my first Dunk & Egg story, “The Hedge Knight.”
    Under the rules of a Trial of Seven, each combatant is allowed to have six companions to fight beside him. Seven against seven. Jaime’s six will all be characters from the worlds and stories of George R.R. Martin (that would be me); Rand is free to fill out his six with characters from the works of Robert Jordan AND Brandon Sanderson. (Yes, he can even include Conan, since Jordan wrote about him).
    Seven against seven. For all the marbles.
    Jaime’s challenge.
    How do the gods of Suvudu rule?’

  437. FunnyName says:

    How much for your aunt? Does she bake cookies?

  438. SaberCrazy says:

    What books aren’t fan fiction? Really?
    So many fantasy/sci-fi (I refuse to use the stupidity that is Sy-Fy. -_-)have been written that it’s really hard not to use ideas used before.
    We have two truenamers in this contest (well not anymore but they were) and I’m pretty sure neither are from the same world. (I might be even more convincing if I hadn’t just woke up and wasn’t really hungry.)

  439. Durwen says:

    Some authors make a better job at hiding that fact than others. Like Edward Scissorhands, (Frankenstein) or The Lion King (Hamlet). LOTR is based off the norse sagas, Watchmen is a parody of some classic comic heroes. I don’t deny that, in the end, everything is derivative to some degree. As a matter of fact, at times I rather enjoy finding what inspired a given work that I’ve enjoyed.
    However, if your source of inspiration is so thinly disguised that I can tell it at a first glance… you’re doing it wrong (IMO and YMMV, of course).

  440. Durwen says:

    What, still? I thought it was quite clear it was a self-insert of Tolkien and his wife. Well, sort-of.
    Oh well. We geeks must always find some obscure bit of lore to argue about, no?

  441. John_ce says:

    I dont know why, but i seem to have read that you ARE GRRM!!, but now it just says “I’ll copy what he said”…
    Guess i´m going crazy :p

  442. WaterDancer says:

    @Cy Logic has nothing to do with it or it would be Aslan Vs the shrike or cthulhu in the end…..Kvothe would not be here to illogicly lose to Jaime, however, Jaime is the more deeply written characterand….who doesnt love an under dog?….even if he started out his story as an overcat 🙂

  443. Kathryn says:

    How the hell can Kvothe lose to Jaime? Don’t get me wrong, Jaime is an amazing, competent character, but he’s missing his sword hand! He can’t fight in that condition!

  444. cilantron says:

    I love A Song of Ice and Fice (so far, anyway), But for the Final, I shall be voting for Rand, because, ya know, Jaime beat Cthulhu? Seriously? C’mon.

  445. Sadness says:

    ;__; ……
    Rand Al thor is getting my vote.
    (ps. I did read books by both authors and I am fond of them buuut lannister cannot lose to a kvothe. In the first few chapters a washed out kvothe, even with no confidence or spirit manages to sucesfully deal with a bunch of scraelings! that is fae-spider-like things akin to demons!
    that aside, that man still CAN FIGHT!)

  446. lakesidey says:

    “ps. I did read books by both authors and I am fond of them buuut lannister cannot lose to a kvothe.”
    Are you sure that’s what you meant? After that you seem to be suggesting the exact reverse 🙂

  447. CezeN says:

    I haven’t read A Song Of Ice and FIre and probably never will, so can someone unbiased explain to me how Jaime Lannister is a “more deeply written character” than Kvothe?
    Preferabley someone who’s actually read The Name of the Wind.

  448. Sadness says:

    sorry i mean a washed out kvothe cannot lose to a one-handed lannister!
    thanks for the catch!

  449. lakesidey says:

    Having not yet laid hands on NotW, I will make no such claim. I will, however, aver strongly that Jaime is extremely well written.
    It’s a bit complicated, you’d have to get at least till book 3. In books 1 and 2 you see Jaime from afar. Other people’s viewpoints (none of whom like him) and you get it thoroughly into your head that he is an uncompromising bastard with shit for honour, an egomaniac who thoroughly deserves whatever nasty thing comes to him, and all of that. Book 3, we start getting some viewpoints from the man himself, and while he himself thinks he is no saint, we get to see some of the reasons behind some of the things he has done, and we realise that he is a far more complex character than we first realised.
    Basically, few people in aSoIaF are pure unambiguous black or white, morally speaking, nearly everyone nasty has some redeeming qualities (ok not all, there’s Jaime’s sister Cersei to be at the far end of the (ab)normal curve). And over time, some of them change, become wiser in the ways of the world etc, some of them remain the same but OUR perspective changes, and so there is an evolution, a character development, that is different from anything I’ve seen elsewhere.
    Add to it the fact that for many characters, I get the feeling “yeah, I’ve known someone who thinks like that, only less so” – the less so coming from the fact that we live in a society with a lot more in the way of laws to prevent us from doing stuff we’d like to, to the detriment of others. Such laws are much looser in Westeros and hence we have quite a few people doing what they choose to till they run up against someone who gets the drop on them. And no, it isn’t necessary that if A beats B today, and B beats C tomorrow, that A will beat C the day after. There are many people of nearly equal prowess (both in war and in wit, and many have never had the chance to match up against each other. We could do a great cagematch just there, it seems to me….but I digress. And no, I’ve never met someone quite like Gregor Clegane. Which is fine by me.)
    Also, the fact that GRRM has this uncomfortable habit of killing off really interesting characters without any warning makes it a great read – I mean, I *know* most protagonists are safe, at least till the end, in practically every other book I read. But in this, I am actually _worried_ when a character I like is in a tight spot. By the end of book 2, I was so inured to the killing that there were just about six characters left who I would have wagered would make it through the next book. (Three of them didn’t:()
    All in all, aSoIaF has been unlike anything else I have read. A few other books have captured me with the brilliance of the imagination – Children of Dune (yeah I know most people don’t like it as much as book one but I was blown by the ending), Ender’s Shadow (and Game, to a slightly lesser extent), Player of Games (Iain Banks at his best, I feel), Mission of Gravity, Hyperion, A Fire Upon the Deep, Startide Rising, were all unputdownable….(and several others I can’t remember offhand)….but I can’t remember devouring anything as unstoppably as a Storm of Swords. The bit where Gregor *censor* and the part where Robb *snip* and that terrible bit where Arya *cut* and the hrror of Theon’s *chop*…no, I shan’t tell you….in the words of Robert Jordan, may his soul rest in peace:
    “Read And Find Out!”
    🙂 Sorry for the long post, y’all. But then if you’ve read either of the series left standing so far, I guess I’m well below the average length you can take without being reduced to gibbering idiots 😉
    P.S. Ye who felt that Kvothe should have lost the last match, rejoice – for this day Aslan shall walk again! Happy Easter all…

  450. frantiforce says:

    Couldn’t have said it better myself.
    @ cy: As far as being unaccurate abotu Kvothe beating Rand. Guess I was wrong, shrug. My faith in humanity is now rising…

  451. Snall says:

    Both NoTw, aka Kingkiller Chronicle Book 1, and Ice and Fire are both awesome. I just re-read Notw as the second one might be out next year sometime..heh, and I should go re-read the Song books now.

  452. Gregor says:

    I was a direct copy/paste ‘I am GRRM’s and all’ 😛

  453. archon says:

    Apparently you don’t know if a book is bad… since the VAST majority of readers and critics would disagree with you… but feel free to pretend like you are one of those homsexual modeling agents who try to convince us heterosexual guys that a lanky, skeletal woman with big breasts defines sexiness…

  454. rick says:

    I really hope we get to see a battle of the seven. Not sure if we would have to use characters who have only been in the series from book 1 or if we can hypothetically use characters mentioned earlier. So ill give my personal westerosi 7 from both scenarios.
    Ungregor Clegane
    Mellisandre of Asshai
    Ser Bronn of the Blackwater
    John Snow and Ghost
    Daenerys Stormborn with her dragons
    Jaqen H’ghar
    All time
    Aegon the Conqeuror on Balerion the black dread
    Mellisandra of Asshai
    Ser Arthur Dayne
    Robert Baratheon
    Syrio Forel
    Jaqen H’ghar

  455. Ben says:

    I have read both NotW and aSoIaF, and they are both in my top five books/series of all time. Jaime is not the more deeply written character, although he is excellently written. By the end of one book, we get to know Kvothe far better than we know Jaime at the end of four books. That doesn’t mean Jaime isn’t a complex, interesting, great character. He just doesn’t get as much screen time or head time as Kvothe. And both authors are amazingly great at what they do.

  456. mrjoegangles says:

    For everyone who thinks Jamie shouldn’t have won and didn’t read the complete series, that is why you are wrong.
    If you don’t read at least to book 3 you will never get how great a character he really is. Never has a character in a book gone from least liked to most liked in so short a time. He was reviled by ASOIAF fans, now he and Tyrion are the two biggest fan favorites. (With Arya and Jon right behind)
    “I think it passing odd that I am loved by one for a kindness I never did, and reviled by so many for my finest act. -Jamie Lannister-

  457. spectre says:

    I’d like to see a rematch after the Kingkiller Trilogy concludes. Then we’ll see what Kvothe can really do.

  458. Basil says:

    It’s a damn shame that the champ is missing… Of course, Raistlin would batter the both.. somebody needs to revive him in books.

  459. Neris Veran says:

    “Apparently you don’t know if a book is bad… since the VAST majority of readers and critics would disagree with you… but feel free to pretend like you are one of those homsexual modeling agents who try to convince us heterosexual guys that a lanky, skeletal woman with big breasts defines sexiness…”
    I disagree that the majority is always in the right, since the majority of teenage females like Twilight.
    As to your second remark: as one of those “lanky, skeletal women,” I would find it incredibly difficult to masquerade as a homosexual (I assume you mean male) modeling agent. I also fail to see what this has to do with anyone’s taste in books… It is remarkably off-topic.
    On a related note, I have pretty much lost interest in the debate, since everybody seems to focus on minor details rather than main points.

  460. archon says:

    Well, when it comes to an OPINION (i.e. if something is good or bad), then the majority tends to rule… as the standard for such things are set by the vast majority and not the deviant haters.
    And the fashion model statement was simply an analogy for someone who thinks that they know better than everyone else what is good or bad for those people… your claim that GRRM’s books are bad “because you know bad writing” is as ridiculous as some gay guy telling me that this particular girl is what I should find attractive because HE knows what makes a woman sexy…

  461. Snall says:

    Someone said George’s series was bad? I rofl in their general direction.

  462. Juan says:

    I absolutely feel sorry for everyone in this thread who proclaims that Martin’s books are bad or boring; too dark or too plain or wanting more of long dead authors who can no longer contribute.
    It really is sad.
    Martin is a living legend. He is absolutely, without any doubt, the best writer to hone the craft. >Tolkein. >Jordan. >all.
    I suppose that you have to actually know a little bit about the art of writing fiction to actually understand that, but trust me. If you keep reading?
    You will. Don’t let the fact that his Lannister beat your (whoever) get you mad. Go out and read his ASOIF books. You’ll be glad you did.

  463. Kansa says:

    I was planning to the bookshop diddnt have the first book in the series. Also if you havent read the name of the wind, do it. You’ll be glad you did

  464. QuizmasterJ says:

    There’s a reason agents tell authors to never read reviews, or for that matter, book forums anywhere on the internet.
    Juan, I’ve read all of Martin’s books, and I’ve read The Name of the Wind. Martin’s books entralled me, but The Name of the Wind is on a level all its own. Read it, I promise you it is worth the $7.99 asking price.
    Kvothe is also a new character, compared to Jaime. It does Rothfuss credit that he nearly won this battle against such a deep-seated character(47% to 53%).
    Kvothe is top-5 all time best written characters in any medium. If you don’t believe me, read Rothfuss. I dare you.
    Also, read Martin’s books as well, ye onlookers-hidden.

  465. Brian says:

    I hate to say it, but that would be a really bad idea for GRRM. I just finished reading the Mistborn trilogy by Sanderson, and frankly any of the main allomancers would take Jaime out in a heartbeat. Between steel pushes and atium, there wouldn’t be much chance.

  466. Amen-Ra says:

    I am sorry if I offended in my last posting toward you. I got a little agitated by the fact that you did not like A Game of Thrones.
    However! I fail to see how that example of diouloge was better thant the Dialouge in A Game of Thrones. It confounds me how anybody could read AGOT and be bored. I could not put the book down.
    Was something going on in your life which made it difficult for you to get into the book. Are you ABSULUTELY SURE IT WAS A GAME OF THRONES YOU WERE READING. Maybe somebody swapped covers and put one of those Forgoten Realms Drizzt books in its place.
    I am sorry though, I should not have been as rude as I was. Your dedication to the Lord of the Rinds is admirable. I am embarassed to say I did not like the little bit I read. I read The felowship of the ring and half of the two towers. I was not impressed. And everyone says thats such a great fantasy. Oh well, I guess that just goes to show that not everyone likes the same thing.
    You did not see the Matrix? Wow!

  467. Gregor says:

    Jaime, Brienne, Gregor Clegane, The Sword of the Morning, Jon Snow, Loras Tyrell, and Barristan the Bold could take on all comers =D

  468. Gregor says:

    Actually, swap out Loras Tyrell and Jon Snow for Jaqen H’ghar and Syrio Forell. Point still stands 😛

  469. Amen-Ra says:

    If you are going to put the Sword of the Morning in and Baristan the Bold then I would think you could put The Dragon Night and Robert in the fray. Brienne is a good fighter but she is outmatched. John Snow will be one of the best but his abilities are untested. You put Gregor in but failed to mention Sandor. Where is Drogo. I think he could hold his own against any of them.

  470. Amen-Ra says:

    I am sorry but I thought that The Name of the Wind was a good book, but it was not as good as people are making it out to be. The story Drags for most of the second half of the book and does not pick back up till near the end.
    I give Name of the Wind a solid 8 to 8.5 out of 10. I would recommend the book, but I don’t think it was on the level of A Game of Thrones. No way, no how. I did like Rothfus rite up better though.

  471. Gregor says:

    I tried to pick characters that may consider fighting together, under extreme circumstances. Sandor and Gregor wouldnt, neither would the Red viper of Dorne, hence why I left him out as well.
    None of the characters I picked HATE each other, the biggest stretch is Jon Snow, but i swapped him out, so its all good 😛

  472. Amen-Ra says:

    Did not take it personally. I did not right the book. I thought it was kind of funny actually. I was disappointed and slightly annoyed. when you right things in emails it comes of differently so it seemed much harsher than I meant it. I apologized to him for that. a little embarrassing in hind site.

  473. Amen-Ra says:

    As far as this Elezzer the fool thing who the hell is that? I would feel sorry for any slave regardless of there personality. They are a slave. The real test is feeling sorry for their master. I certainly would not feel sorry for a master because they lost there slave. If you sat down and read AGOT, I mean really read it, you would understand just how truly remarkable the book is. I heard it said that you find yourself pulling for all of the point of view characters even though pulling for one of them would mean total disaster for the others. Each character has his positives and negatives, and I feel for them all. Especially Tyrian, who is actually very decent when you think about it. The only character in the whole book I did not like was Cerci Lanister. She is a true Bitch and I cant stand her.

  474. siimen says:

    Well, actually guy’s named Tyrion.
    And it’s CERCEI.
    I kind of start to understand how person can read a book 6x and not to remember it’s name. Quite a same thing, it seems to me, is the fact that some people can’t remember how to spell names from their favorite book.
    /your faithful Tolkien geek,
    who loves ASOIAF and NOTW equally.
    Btw, I have to admit that “The story Drags for most of the second half of the book and does not pick back up till near the end”-comment about Name of the Wind has point.
    But there are weak points in ASOIF too. Sometimes the story gets so dark it’s simply boring (SPOILER!!!
    I was on the edge of skipping Arya’s chapters when she got kidnapped and kidnapped and kidnapped again, for example).
    Also, Martin’s writing is sometimes little lazy and yes, probably you love at least some from his characters – but it is also true that most likely you start to hate at least some POV-characters too. Personally I had hard time reading many Arya-chapters, skipped Sansa’s sometimes and read only after finding out what has happened in between, I truly hate Cersei for being stuoid and cruel – and Theon was the hardest of them all, character being boring, flattish, story-ruining AND
    incredibly out of success
    in the same time.
    Still, both books are very much worth reading, if you seek realness in characters, hooking stories and if you care about fine writing.
    Which one do you prefer is the question of personal taste, not some absolute value of the books.

  475. Durwen says:

    It’s CERSEI.

  476. siimen says:

    Yes it is.
    oh GOD!
    we’re (well, almost, Durwen is special) all equally stupid.

  477. Durwen says:

    Yeah, right, I’m my own special snowflake.
    And Google is my friend.

  478. Furrymoose says:

    Alright, I’ve been gone for a few days, so I don’t konw if this has been said, but does anyone know when the finals are coming out? It’s been a few days (since I left) since Kvothe (sadly 🙁 ) lost to Jaime and I am anxiously awaiting how Suvudu is gonna make it seem like Jaime stands a chance. After all the talk about how “Balefire is totally cheap and you can’t just use that every time” (even though he most certainly can) and the whole threat of a completely anticlimatic final, I really want to see how they do this. Plus I want to cast my vote for Rand. Cuz balefire would totally own Jaime. (Plus, he has to avenge Kvothe!) Anyway, has Suvudu said when they’re posting the finals and when they’re over?

  479. annoyed says:

    I love GRRM’s books, but his write up for this match was terrible, he didn’t even bother to learn the name of Kvothe’s inn, and said that Kvothe’s sword was normal, when Folly seems to be revered in NOTW as a remarkable blade, all in all, Rothfuss’ write up was the only one that was realistic, where in the others Kvothe is portrayed as a lack wit who is an average swordsman, all in all a disappointing end to Kvothe’s tourney, and another unearned victory for Lannister.

  480. Durwen says:

    Wow, there are quite a few sore losers here.
    This is the nature of this game, no?
    Most of my favourites were offed at the first round, although I thought they should have won. Well, stiff upper lip and all that. It’s still a game and it’s still fun. And since we’re talking about fictional characters here, narrativium takes precedence over logic. I said it in another post a few days ago. If I want a given character to win, it can be done (more or les believably, granted), even if it’s by an ill-conceived Deus-ex-machina.
    In the end, the final result is what realy matters. In this case, Kvothe is quite dead.
    Re: GRRM’s write-up: Well, at least he wrote something ASOIAF related! It certainly wasn’t as good as the one he did for Cthulhu, but I for one I’m content.

  481. frantiforce says:

    Agreed on the shakiness of some of NOTW, but it was Rothfuss first-ever novel, and as far as a debut goes there are very few books that come close to it. Conversely, GRRM had been writing for 25+ years by the time he wrote Game.

  482. dpomerico says:

    Yes, the Finals are going up tomorrow:

  483. Yasmina says:

    It probably depends on your personal narrator.
    Mine always seems to be on the verge of hysterical giggles…
    It makes everything silly.

  484. Thomas J. Thomas says:

    I’m afraid you may have done much harm to Ms. Fallon’s future.
    I have read (at least partially as I was smart enough to stop in several cases) some of the books you suggest are superior to Mr. Martin’s work.
    Given that you suggest Ms. Fallon’s work out does even those “classics” in being “superior” to A Song of Ice and Fire, its not likely I’ll be running to the book store to buy a book that out “Eargon’s”, Mr. Martin’s masterful work.

  485. Amen-Ra says:

    point well taken. However when I judge the two books on merits alone I prefer A Game of Thrones. I did like The Name of The Wind however

  486. James says:

    I personally think Jaime shouldn’t have made it past the first round.

  487. MiMartin says:

    Jaime wins this one. He just has to hold Myrcella in front of him.

  488. Amen-Ra says:

    I personally think that Shrike would have killed them all. See what good that does me. In the end Jamie slices Rand Al’thore’s head off. If he is decapitated can he still use baelfire? How does that work?

  489. Amen-Ra says:

    “I truly hate Cersei for being stuoid and cruel – and Theon was the hardest of them all, character being boring, flattish, story-ruining.” siimen said
    OK smarty pants did you mean stuoid which is not a word I am familiar with, or Stupid. A adjective that describes Cersei totally. Make sure that you use spell check when you are sending messages to correct other peoples spelling.:>)
    I agree that it’s a matter of taste as most things are. I enjoyed both books, although I liked A Game of thrones much more. I will admit that I grew tired of some of the never ending trials of some of the characters, but never so much that a skipped there chapter. I almost forgot about Greyjoy. Did not like him very much.

  490. frantiforce says:

    Totally agreed. Time may tell on the complete series’ themselves, but if I were forced to choose, I’d take Game in an instant.

  491. Amadeus says:

    Disappointing result to the Jaime-Kvothe face off. Kvothe should have won, easy, hands down, and on to a quickly conclusive victory with Rand al Thor. Why?
    Kvothe’s character engages his emotional side to create a catalytic chemistry to his arsenal of supreme physical and intellectual strengths. This chemistry results in an expanded spirit and auxiliary power to create a larger capacity to influence forces at work. In Rothfuss’ write up, Bast is a reflection of that chemistry at work – loyalty and friendship at its ultimate expression, self-sacrifice.
    Upon reflection, Bast is just one expression of this catalytic chemistry. Even Rand, sadly cannot operate at such rich combustion.
    Kvothe emotional sensitivity reaches to the refined sensitivity of a musical artist of genius gifted with an unusual ability of emotional expression and spontaneous creativity in responding to a compromised musical instrument. I suspect such ability and sensitivity is a metaphor for what can achieve with individuals such as Bast. Well, I can wait to read about it in the upcoming novel.
    Kvote’s emotional sensitivity reaches to the level of a soul connected to the powers around him through his awareness and connection to nature’s presence. In the novel, translating the music of the natural world is an early indicator of Kvothe’s ability that. The musical aspect is a real clue.
    We are dealing with an ARTIST, not a power wielder. The title of Mr. Rothfuss’ novel, The Name of the Wind, promises not only power but also artist’s refinement in that power! Don’t quite remember Rand as having the “artist’s soul,” which is after all, an expanded spirit with its own set of abilities.
    Sorry, Rand, a soul who has powers connected to the artistic realm, the creative realm, is a realm dealing with the gods.

  492. Chris says:

    I’m pretty intrigued at the way Martin has opened up the door with his “trial of seven” trick.
    This means it’d be Rand versus Jamie AND six of Jamie’s companions
    …from anywhere in Martin’s writings it seems.
    That opens up the door for the likes of the powerful compassionate vampire Joshua York of “Fever Dream.”
    How about gene-splicing germ-wielding Haviland Tuf and his lab of creations.
    …or “Wild Cards” superman Jack Braun, who’s superhuman strong and pretty much indestructible.
    Or The Great And Powerful Turtle, who could pin Rand down from a safe distance and drop a battleship on his head.
    Perhaps Dr. Tachyon with all his mind control powers could get Rand to jump off a cliff.
    Or Tachyon’s evil grandson Blaise could “jump” Rand’s mind into an easily squishable mouse.
    That’s six friends for Jamie and I didn’t even have to think very hard.
    What fun.

  493. […] Here’s a link to the fight, if you want it. […]